Was I Justified?

Now, I want to begin by saying that I'm not the kind of guy who goes around looking for fights. I used to fight a lot when I was younger, but I've matured out of it and I'm generally pretty friendly. Today, however, I snapped. I was involved in a physical altercation and, yes, I did throw the first punch. And while I should feel bad about the ordeal, I don't. I have a very, very hard time feeling any guilt whatsoever, under the circumstances. So since this is the internet and I'll likely never encounter any of you in person nor would I know if I did, I've decided to share the story and get your opinions on whether or not I was justified in my actions.

Before we get into the meat of this story, a small amount of background information is required; I'm currently 16 years old (nearing 17) and for over a year now I've been in a relationship with a girl who, for the sake of anonymity, we'll refer to as Sasha just because its an attractive name. She had a pretty rough childhood... without going into too much detail, her dad was an alcoholic dirt-bag who sexually abused her (he's now in jail, thankfully) but it left an emotional scar on her, so to speak. Four years ago, some other things went bad for her and she tried to kill herself (thankfully her attempt failed) and she wound up getting counseling and has been working to move past it all. Its one of those situations that a lot of people at school have some idea about, but very few people actually know the details. And understandably, she doesn't like to talk about it much.

And now we meet the recipient of my rage (and fist). Again, for the sake of anonymity, we'll refer to him as Paul, because I don't like that name, so I feel it fits him well. (Also, sorry to any Paul's who I may have offended. I'm sure you're great people, I just think your name sounds gross). Paul is "That Kid." You know, the one who can't keep his mouth shut and always has to take things one step too far. During lunch today, I was with Sasha (again, that's not really her name, its just a seductive pseudonym for the purpose of this story) and we happened to see Paul remarking about how another student had no friends and was a loser. This is the ONLY part of my actions which I regret... I got involved by saying, "Paul, do you have friends? Like, can you honestly name five people who like you?" Again, not my proudest moment, and I shouldn't have said that. What he said next, however, is what I feel started this whole mess.

Paul replied, "I don't know, how about you name your emo girlfriend?"

Of course this remark frustrated me, but its not that big of a deal. Just a stupid statement from a stupid person. But while I normally would have let it slide and kept on going, today was apparently the pinnacle of my bad-decision making, because I decided to respond to his stupidity instead. I said, "That isn't funny. If by some miracle you had a girlfriend, and she had a history with depression and a suicide attempt on record, I wouldn't make fun of her."

*Note: Things got a bit vulgar after that, so I'll put a spoiler block over any swear words.

Paul then said, "Well maybe she needs to grow the fuck up and learn to take a joke."

Me: "There's a difference between making a joke and being an insensitive dick. She went through years of therapy after being abused by her dad, obviously that's going to be a touchy subject, you fucking idiot."

By this point, Sasha was asking me to forget about it and keep walking, and in retrospect I should have listened to her but, as we've already established, I wasn't exactly at the height of my good decision-making today. Plus, I just REALLY dislike this guy.

So then Paul tried to dig himself out of the hole by saying, "I didn't know about that."

Me: "Well maybe you should learn a thing or two about a person before you decide to insult them for no fucking reason. You're what, fifteen? Grow up a little and learn at least some basic human decency."

Paul then jumped right back into the hole with, "I need to grow up? You're the one who faps to Superman and shit!" (Referring to the fact that I occasionally read comics in the hallway, which he's made sure to point out very obnoxiously in the past)

Me: "Dude, just stop. Seriously, the fact that we're even fighting about this is ridiculous."

Paul then did the mature thing and... spit on me. No joke. I attempted to resolve the conflict calmly and maturely, and he decided that the best course of action was to spit on me. I muttered the classic, cliche tough guy line, "I dare you to do that again." (Actually, looking back on it, using that line may be the worst decision I made today.) And guess what our good friend Paul did? He took me up on the offer and spit on me again. So... I punched him in the face. Hard. Harder than I've ever hit anything, ever.

Paul, after processing that and recovering a bit, threw a punch my way. My advantage, however, is that while I run track and am really quite fast, Paul is slow and very uncoordinated. I actually dodged his punch, and for a split second I felt awesome. Then I realized that I was in a fight, and something like panic set in. So I did the reasonable thing and hit him as many times as I could, as hard as I could, as fast as I could get them in. He got a couple pretty good hits on me too, but I feel quite confident saying that if we're choosing winners in a fight, I won this one. I saw a teacher running down the hall to break us up, and I thought, "Well I'm already screwed, I might as well finish big." So I shoved him into the lockers and punched him the face one more time before the gym coach was grabbing me and hauling us both to the office.

Aftermath: We were both suspended, Sasha is mad at me for fighting in the first place, my parents are pissed but are at this point unable to agree on my punishment, and I pretty much burned any bridges I had left with Paul... so why don't I feel bad? About hitting him, specifically. I do feel bad about making that crack about no one liking him that sort of set the whole thing in motion, but I don't regret hitting him one bit. Tell me, viners, was I at all justified in what I did, or should I feel guilty over the situation?

No you shouldn't feel guilty. In my personal opinion, you shouldn't have punched him. But he totally deserved it.

Obviously, you made some bad calls, but i don't think i'd feel guilty. Spitting on you is over the edge. So yeah. I think you were justified. mostly.

You went so Ty Lee on his a$$....and for the question at hand, yes you were, he disrespected your girlfreind, and spit on you on top of that, I would have done much...much worse things then hit him (2 words: Psychological Torture)So I say you were justified.

I would have done the same if I were you. But to tell the truth, you gave exactly what he wanted. When the guy spits on another, he is seriously looking for a fight and back down is impossible at this point, because he treated you like trash. I think you were justified. It sucks you are getting punished because of it. Tell me, is he being punished too?

Things happen. No reason to look back on it. You stood up for yourself an the moment got the better of you.

God the "Paul" was a b*tch. You kept your calm in the beginning there pal (well except the "do you have friends" bit). And he spat on you? I would have choked the sh*t out of that muthaf*cker. You were justified alright. But I also agree on the suspension. Violence is still violence and I think you understand that seeing as you have no beef with the school system and all.

Well he did spit on you and that's a grade A b*tch move so I'd say you were justified in hitting him.

If I were to lose my temper like that, I'd probably do way worse than what you probably did, which is probably throw several punches that hurt, but won't do much. I've got a little bit of training in various sports and martial arts that I've practiced a fair bit; I'd probably have wrecked the kid if I got the first move like you did.

In other words, you made some bad decisions, you shouldn't have hit him, but I don't feel sorry for him in the least. You shouldn't apologize, you shouldn't show any sign of what his feeble mind might perceive as "weakness", because he'll come right back with either insults, or physical confrontations. It doesn't matter that apologizing might be the mature, stronger thing to do. What matters is what your opponent thinks is the strong thing to do, and take it one step beyond.

Next time you see him, smile condescendingly, never indicate you might be in any way injured from the fight, be cool as a cucumber, and sit wherever you want for lunch; he'll stay away from you. I probably would too, and I'm not a small kid (I'm the same age as you). It's all about perception. Make him perceive you as tough and scary. He'll back off. He might start rumors since that's the only thing he can do to you once he sees you as physically more than his equal, but you can dispel any rumors by being calm cool and collected and QUIET, and maintaining that persona whenever he or someone like him comes around. Be the tough guy. It actually works. Doesn't mean you have to act like that to anyone other than the people you want to be respected by. This is why you dress up fancy for important occasions; make people perceive you a certain way to achieve your desired goal, whatever that may be at the time. As both an aspiring business person and someone interested in and learning boxing, wrestling and MMA, I can tell you that appearances and perception are vitally important and do work and make a difference.

If all goes well, you shouldn't have any more fights with him.

As for parents, they'll never side with you because they always expect their child to be perfect and do the right thing, and punish when he doesn't. Unless it's non-harmful or non-intentional (usually both), parents normally discipline for failure.

If you wanna read more or ask me for advice, feel free to message me.

Man, you were so much more resolved than I would've been. I would have just whacked the guy when he said the word 'emo'. That's one of my buttons.

Every word after that would have earned him another punch, and if he'd spit on me, I honestly don't believe that I would have stopped.

However, I do have major anger issues.

Your question about being justified I can't really give an honest opinion on -- a lot happened, in segments so some parts you were wrong, others, your reaction was understandable. Both of you are pretty young so to expect a calm, rational discussion about etiquette and judgement of people isn't going to be very likely.

Yes --- you were mean first. You did speak to him directly though -- and he did insult your girlfriend, which was uncalled for. Not so much because she's your girlfriend, but that she did nothing to him to be called "emo" or anything else derogatory.

The discussing about her private life was a bit jarring to read. I am curious as to how she feels you bringing up her issues during your argument made her feel. Its one thing to challenge someone who is insensitive to people's rumoured issues but since you said your girlfriend preferes to not speak of her past abuse, having it brought up at all was wrong. (I know this isn't part of your question -- so ignore -- I just noticed is all).

Him spitting on you is assault. I know you say you hit him first -- I get that -- but really, it was him who assaulted you first. So -- there is that -- and as for the rest of the fight, who won or didn't win doesn't much matter in determining whether you were justified or not, but I do appreactie you adding that bit as this thread would have been more about trying to figure it if you did.

Your girlfriend didn't want you to fight. Yes -- you should have listened to her, but it seems to me, this "Paul" character has been getting on your last nerve for a while. So -- this was due to happen although you mentioned bridge-burning with the guy so there must have been some form of friendship between the two of you. Which is too bad because talking it out is so much better and it would have been a great opportunity for you to impart some good advice about him needing to be more aware of people. It looked as though he might have been willing to (in a sense) because he tried to back out -- but then again -- by this time, I suspect your anger was already simmering.

So -- justified? I guess so in that he did spit on you which is a disgusting and vile thing to do. I am surprised you didn't strike out at him right from that. As for not feeling guilty? You sound like a good person, clearly this is on your mind so it matters to you that you digest this properly and without bias. You not feeling guilt is something you need to marinade in. What is it that makes you feel justified?

Was it because he insulted your girlfriend?

Was it because he belittled her past?

Was it because he belittled abuse in general?

Was it because he was getting in your face and also insulting you?

Was it because he spit on you?

You girlfriend is upset with you. I am on her side there. You (and him) were suspended --- another good call. Your parents planning on disciplining you is also understandable -- you should be. But the lack of guilt is telling you something, and if you consider yourself to be a good person who is capable of feeling guilt when warranted, then I would say you were justified in what you did. You are the one who should be the judge of anything that you do and so --- what's done is done.

However, please let me point out one thing. Fights don't solve anything and horrific things can come quickly and viciously when then escalate. I am grateful both you and this boy came out relatively unscathed but all it would have taken is a switchblade or small knife, and this story would be a whole lot different. I wish I was over-dramatising it but I've seen it happen, and have been exposed to many similar situations where someone lost their lives. So please --- is you are in a position like this again -- no matter how insignificant it might be --- avoid the violence, okay?

And get to work on making this up to your girlfriend. Be safe. :)

You should always provide Cliffs for threads like these.

@Sexy Merc: Why's that?

I would have done the same. Spit? That's nasty.

@CaioTrubat said:

I would have done the same if I were you. But to tell the truth, you gave exactly what he wanted. When the guy spits on another, he is seriously looking for a fight and back down is impossible at this point, because he treated you like trash. I think you were justified. It sucks you are getting punished because of it. Tell me, is he being punished too?

Yes he is, we were both suspended.

Paul had it coming. What you did was great.

@lykopis said:

Your question about being justified I can't really give an honest opinion on -- a lot happened, in segments so some parts you were wrong, others, your reaction was understandable. Both of you are pretty young so to expect a calm, rational discussion about etiquette and judgement of people isn't going to be very likely.

Yes --- you were mean first. You did speak to him directly though -- and he did insult your girlfriend, which was uncalled for. Not so much because she's your girlfriend, but that she did nothing to him to be called "emo" or anything else derogatory.

The discussing about her private life was a bit jarring to read. I am curious as to how she feels you bringing up her issues during your argument made her feel. Its one thing to challenge someone who is insensitive to people's rumoured issues but since you said your girlfriend preferes to not speak of her past abuse, having it brought up at all was wrong. (I know this isn't part of your question -- so ignore -- I just noticed is all).

Him spitting on you is assault. I know you say you hit him first -- I get that -- but really, it was him who assaulted you first. So -- there is that -- and as for the rest of the fight, who won or didn't win doesn't much matter in determining whether you were justified or not, but I do appreactie you adding that bit as this thread would have been more about trying to figure it if you did.

Your girlfriend didn't want you to fight. Yes -- you should have listened to her, but it seems to me, this "Paul" character has been getting on your last nerve for a while. So -- this was due to happen although you mentioned bridge-burning with the guy so there must have been some form of friendship between the two of you. Which is too bad because talking it out is so much better and it would have been a great opportunity for you to impart some good advice about him needing to be more aware of people. It looked as though he might have been willing to (in a sense) because he tried to back out -- but then again -- by this time, I suspect your anger was already simmering.

So -- justified? I guess so in that he did spit on you which is a disgusting and vile thing to do. I am surprised you didn't strike out at him right from that. As for not feeling guilty? You sound like a good person, clearly this is on your mind so it matters to you that you digest this properly and without bias. You not feeling guilt is something you need to marinade in. What is it that makes you feel justified?

Was it because he insulted your girlfriend?

Was it because he belittled her past?

Was it because he belittled abuse in general?

Was it because he was getting in your face and also insulting you?

Was it because he spit on you?

You girlfriend is upset with you. I am on her side there. You (and him) were suspended --- another good call. Your parents planning on disciplining you is also understandable -- you should be. But the lack of guilt is telling you something, and if you consider yourself to be a good person who is capable of feeling guilt when warranted, then I would say you were justified in what you did. You are the one who should be the judge of anything that you do and so --- what's done is done.

However, please let me point out one thing. Fights don't solve anything and horrific things can come quickly and viciously when then escalate. I am grateful both you and this boy came out relatively unscathed but all it would have taken is a switchblade or small knife, and this story would be a whole lot different. I wish I was over-dramatising it but I've seen it happen, and have been exposed to many similar situations where someone lost their lives. So please --- is you are in a position like this again -- no matter how insignificant it might be --- avoid the violence, okay?

And get to work on making this up to your girlfriend. Be safe. :)

Firstly, thanks for the awesome response.

Now, about me bringing up her history like that... there were a lot of factors. It was partly due to the fact that I was pretty mad at him and, in the moment, didn't quite realize how much I'd said. But the reason I said anything at all about her past is because I wanted to gauge his reaction a little bit. If he'd realized that it was a pretty serious thing and he shouldn't have made that comment, I would have calmed down significantly. Now, when reading this over, you'll see that he did say "I didn't know about that," which might sound almost like an apology... but he said it so defensively, as if it were completely okay for him to insult her and call her "emo" just because he didn't know all the details, and that sparked my next response. I do definitely want to apologize to her for saying anything about it at all, because I'm sure that made her uncomfortable.

And with the "bridge burning" comment... we used to be friends in Elementary School, but obviously paths have diverged quite a bit since then. I've usually tried to be as nice to him as I could, but he's been pushing his limits for years. Not just with me, a lot of people are fed up with him and as I was being taken to the office, a few people were actually cheering for me (which is a bit sad in itself, but we'll leave that topic alone for now).

I definitely need to talk to "Sasha" (although I'm currently not in possession of my phone and obviously I won't be attending school for a couple days, and I refuse to do it on Facebook because that just seems way too impersonal) and apologize for not listening to her and fighting him at all. As someone else said on this thread, he was looking for a fight the moment he spat on me, and I gave him what he wanted... I won't be doing that again.

Sad times when the word "emo" can be seen as an insult

Thxs for sharing that account of ur life very mature of u imo.

I have to say tho u should have listened to Sasha however hard it was to keep calm at the time.Ok ur ego would have taken a knock but believe me when i say "revenge is a dish best served cold"..

Ok Paul would have had the last laugh for the time being but can u imagine the look on his face if u would have confronted him at his home?

Im not saying to go there to knock his lights out but explain the situation to him that if he ever dared repeat himself again in front of others or even tried to insult Sasha the next time the both of u met there would be big problems for him.

Imo he would have been shocked by u turning up at his house & secondly by talking the matter through first he would 100% sure that u would carry out ur actions.

@Imagine_Man15: technicaly you can file assault charges on someone for spitting on you, but when you fight it doesn't matter if your right or wrong all that matters is that fighting sometimes carries an assault charge with it, and any sane person should prefer to be insulted or get his ass kicked than get an assault charge. Smart people walk away learn that while your 16.

This would make a good fan-fic.

@Imagine_Man15:

Thank you for giving me more information --- Paul's behaviour was leading him to a confrontation with someone and turns out it was you. Its an experience at the very least and a gauge for you to set any future altercations you might have. I have a hard time disagreeing with someone who defends the defenceless so shrug this off after learning as much as you can from it.

Sasha sounds like your focus so you are on the right track in my eyes. :)

Yes you were justified. Since I hate bullies and all that ad spitting on someone is the most disrespectful things you can do to someone I'd have broken his face

You did the right thing by defending your girl's honor. Honestly, I'm not a fighter but if I were to come across an annoying cruel person like Paul who insulted someone close to me and continued on with the remarks, I would of done the same. There's no need to feel guilty. You were the better person in this situation.

I think it was alright to hit him, but it was sort of your fault that he brought it to that level. He needed a hitting after what he did, but it all started because of your comment. So, yeah, I don't know about guilt, but I feel like he deserved a good thrashing.

I'm going to go against what others are saying and say no you were not justified. You handled the situation wrongly. The blame doesn't all fall on you because he is a big part of it but you do have a share in it yourself. You could have still confronted him without making the situation worse. That being said I probably wouldn't have handled it any better.

No lie. Dude spit on me, I'da beat his ass.

I would have done the same.

You defended another students, and your friends honor.

He then insulted you, which is perfect validation coupled with the other things to give him a mean right hook.

That said, she DID tell you to stop but you've already stated that you've learnt your lesson.

Don't feel bad about it, unless you didn't throw a snappy one-liner before the punch.

Honestly the guy looked like he was looking for a fight.

Were you justified in hitting him? Yes. I would have punched him too.

Was it the right thing to do? Probably not. When you're dealing with someone like that getting into a fight with them is just lowering yourself to their level because they don't care about what they're saying they're just trying to provoke you into a punch up (i'm not dissing you I would have punched him too doesn't mean to say its right though.)

So imo yes you were justified in punching the guy but as you said you should have stopped when she asked you too.

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

Sad times when the word "emo" can be seen as an insult

It literally means (overly) emotional, but because of modern media, everyone thinks it means someone who cuts themselves.

@Strider92 said:

Honestly the guy looked like he was looking for a fight.

Were you justified in hitting him? Yes. I would have punched him too.

Was it the right thing to do? Probably not. When you're dealing with someone like that getting into a fight with them is just lowering yourself to their level because they don't care about what they're saying they're just trying to provoke you into a punch up (i'm not dissing you I would have punched him too doesn't mean to say its right though.)

So imo yes you were justified in punching the guy but as you said you should have stopped when she asked you too.

I would say yes when he spat on the guy. But when he said "I didn't know", I would have cut the language and just tried to resolve things.

Admittedly, when you try and stand up for someone getting bullied, the bully's gonna turn their attention to you. And I'm not gonna lie, getting angrier with the bully will just escalate the situation. However, this Paul was asking for trouble if I'm honest. Calling your girlfriend an emo and being completely insensitive about your girlfriend's past, acting incredibly rudely and trying to appear tough, insulting Superman and then spitting on you twice? I would have snapped and done the same thing. He's clearly a horrible person who deserved your punch but unfortunately that doesn't make it right that you do so.

However, under those circumstances, it would take an extreme amount of self control to not kick the **** out of a dirtbag like that. But no I'm afraid it wasn't the right thing to do. Doing the right thing can be hard to do. I've snapped at some bullies in the past but I've never had to go very far physically as you did and I'm grateful for that. Although fictional violence looks cool, I've learnt the real thing is brutal and messy.

@laflux said:

@Strider92 said:

Honestly the guy looked like he was looking for a fight.

Were you justified in hitting him? Yes. I would have punched him too.

Was it the right thing to do? Probably not. When you're dealing with someone like that getting into a fight with them is just lowering yourself to their level because they don't care about what they're saying they're just trying to provoke you into a punch up (i'm not dissing you I would have punched him too doesn't mean to say its right though.)

So imo yes you were justified in punching the guy but as you said you should have stopped when she asked you too.

I would say yes when he spat on the guy. But when he said "I didn't know", I would have cut the language and just tried to resolve things.

Thing is, when he said "I didn't know," it wasn't apologetically... he acted as if that somehow made it okay for him to insult a person who he barely knew, completely unprovoked, just because he didn't know all the details. If he'd realized that it was a pretty serious matter and not tried to defend what he'd said, I probably would have calmed down significantly. But he seemed to believe that since he "didn't know," it was somehow okay for him to do it.

I'm not trying to defend my actions here (considering the nature of my argument above, that would make me extremely hypocritical) I'm just clearing up the fact that when he said "I didn't know" he was by no means acknowledging that he was wrong. I do believe that I handled the situation the wrong way, the moment he spit on me I should have seen that he was looking for a fight, and I gave him exactly what he wanted. That much, I do regret.

@Lvenger said:

Admittedly, when you try and stand up for someone getting bullied, the bully's gonna turn their attention to you. And I'm not gonna lie, getting angrier with the bully will just escalate the situation. However, this Paul was asking for trouble if I'm honest. Calling your girlfriend an emo and being completely insensitive about your girlfriend's past, acting incredibly rudely and trying to appear tough, insulting Superman and then spitting on you twice? I would have snapped and done the same thing. He's clearly a horrible person who deserved your punch but unfortunately that doesn't make it right that you do so.

However, under those circumstances, it would take an extreme amount of self control to not kick the **** out of a dirtbag like that. But no I'm afraid it wasn't the right thing to do. Doing the right thing can be hard to do. I've snapped at some bullies in the past but I've never had to go very far physically as you did and I'm grateful for that. Although fictional violence looks cool, I've learnt the real thing is brutal and messy.

No kidding. I've always tried to take the high road and avoid this type of thing in the past, and I plan on continuing to do that, but in this particular situation I just snapped. If he does confront me again, there's no way I'm letting it get to that point a second time. Thing is, I shouldn't have said anything in the first place, that was what got the whole ball rolling. But I expected him to fire back at me. When he went straight for her, completely unprovoked and made a crack at something he has no clue about, it set me off... but you're right, whether he deserved it or not doesn't matter... it wasn't right for me to hit him. That's the conclusion I've come to, now that I've had more time to think it over. So, do I regret this fiasco? No. But I never plan on letting it happen again.

@Imagine_Man15:

Okay first off yes you are justified and you are a total badass.

Also I must give my props to Paul most people wouldn't have spit a second time. He is still a jerk though.