USA hates atheist people?

@knightsofdarkness2: "Because atheists are so much more educated than theists. Your grammar makes this very clear."

My grammar is a factor of posting on my phone, but you can continue to believe what you like. Not necessarily more educated than theists in general but more than anyone who believes in a man made religion.

"Jokes aside, atheism is just as wild and contradictory as most other belief systems."

No, its really not and it doesn't claim certainty of something without some form of evidence to back it up. You can claim that if you want, but it's as unfounded as the Christian belief system.

"Your post comes off as condescending."

As does yours...so you felt the need to jump to the defence of the religious? It's my view, you may ignore if it offends you.

The bit you highlighted is also true, and completely proven. If you'd like to actually do some research into it perhaps you should look into Napoleon, who didn't actually believe in Christianity but used it control the masses...who believed and feared their religion which made them easier to control. Surprise, surprise they were largely not very intelligent. Many comparisons can be drawn between that system and North America today, where large amounts of the population believe in Christianity.

The only source I can find of Hitler himself denouncing his faith is in Hitler's Tabletalk, which you dismissed earlier. Other than that, there is no source where he himself denounced his faith, which wouldn't make sense in the first place since he ordered the Nazi Party to publicly "support" the church for political reasons.

The wikipedia article specifically references quotes and historian view points. I don't see much room for error since a lot of the info is generally genuine and specifically referenced in multiple sources outside the article.

It claims certainty of a BUNCH of things. That God doesn't exist, that religion is man-made, with literally no concrete proof. It's just as ridiculous as most religions.

My post comes off as condescending for stating that atheists are just as intellectual as theists, wow. I didn't even defend anything and I'm not even offended, just find it funny how you think your belief makes you way smarter than any theist, which is definitely untrue. A belief system doesn't really have much to do with someone's intellect.

I can list at least a gazillion instances of society being complete idiots, atheists included.

Larger population = More idiots. What do you expect? A lot of theists are just as intellectual as atheists. It has nothing to do with actual intellect, but with population.

@knightsofdarkness2: "It claims certainty of a BUNCH of things. That God doesn't exist, that religion is man-made, with literally no concrete proof. It's just as ridiculous as most religions."

So wrong, it doesn't claim a certainty there are no God's, it claims there is no evidence of a creator and therefore no reason to believe in one. It doesn't even claim man made religions God's aren't real, just that it is extremely unlikely and there is more evidence to suggest they are man made than real. Perhaps you should get your facts straight before claiming such nonsense. It's far from as ridiculous as most religions.

"My post comes off as condescending for stating that atheists are just as intellectual as theists, wow."

No, not what I was referring to and I think you know that.

"I didn't even defend anything and I'm not even offended, just find it funny how you think your belief makes you way smarter than any theist, which is definitely untrue."

In a way yes and in a way no, I am well aware there are theists out there more academic than myself, but at the same time the belief in a man made religion does make them stupid in a way imo too. Regardless of its comical value to you, you are technically still defending them.

"A belief system doesn't really have much to do with someone's intellect."

In an academic way not necessarily, but in a common sense way it really does.

"I can list at least a gazillion instances of society being complete idiots, atheists included."

Good for you, if you'll notice I originally stated "uneducated masses", although in that specific instance I was referring to the religious my stance is that the majority of humans are stupid and that includes those who don't believe in man made religions.

"Larger population = More idiots. What do you expect? A lot of theists are just as intellectual as atheists. It has nothing to do with actual intellect, but with population."

The majority of the world does believe in man made God's though...what a coincidence, or maybe just an example of how gullible and simple people are.

Opposite, if anything.

@mrhamwallet:

So wrong, it doesn't claim a certainty there are no God's,

Atheism is commonly defined as the belief that there is no god. Believing that there is still a possibility of a god existing technically makes you an agnostic.

it claims there is no evidence of a creator and therefore no reason to believe in one.

Physical evidence*

It doesn't even claim man made religions God's aren't real, just that it is extremely unlikely and there is more evidence to suggest they are man made than real.

Yet you present it as an irrefutable fact that can't be evaluated or questioned without getting labeled as a religious advocate.

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before claiming such nonsense. It's far from as ridiculous as most religions.

"Hey, let's assume that the world was created from nothing by nothing without any concrete proof and then let's label anyone who opposes our belief as a psychotic, religious advocate that has an IQ lower than zero and then deny that there is no god because there is no physical proof yet we don't have any proof that God doesn't exist in the first place"

Yeah, right.

I know that the example was a little too extreme and not exactly true but my point is that all religions can be looked as ridiculous and far-fetched, atheism is no exception.

In a way yes and in a way no, I am well aware there are theists out there more academic than myself, but at the same time the belief in a man made religion does make them stupid in a way imo too. Regardless of its comical value to you, you are technically still defending them.

In an academic way not necessarily, but in a common sense way it really does.

There is no proof it's man-made, and there's no concrete physical proof that it isn't.

Not really, but I can see why people might think I'm defending religion. I'm just stating that atheism is just as ridiculous as most religions. I don't agree that most people in general are stupid when it comes to actual intellect, but I agree that most people are pathetic when it comes to common sense.

Again, no proof that's it's man-made. You claiming that religion is man-made is just as ridiculous as claiming that it isn't. You could literally reverse your entire argument with a religious standpoint and it would still be the same.

The majority of the world does believe in man made God's though...what a coincidence, or maybe just an example of how gullible and simple people are.

I've been studying all forms of religion for almost all my life. I was raised as a muslim, sure, but I was skeptical of all forms of religion. I learned more about Islam and eventually decided that I'd stay as one. Just because you chose a different path doesn't make you superior in any shape or form. Personal choice does play a role in deciding religion, not your heritage. It has nothing to do about being gullible or simple.

@knightsofdarkness2: "Atheism is commonly defined as the belief that there is no god."

Do you need help picking out the key word here? It's 'belief'.

"Believing that there is still a possibility of a god existing technically makes you an agnostic."

Yet if you actually listen to atheist speakers they will not say they can prove or be certain there is definitely no God or Creator but they believe there is not one due to a distinct lack of evidence and many other important reasons. I don't know why you don't understand this, it is a bit of a subtle difference between an atheist and an agnostic, but I'm not breaking it down for you any further.

"Physical evidence*"

Outrageous claims require outrageous evidence, there is nothing to suggest that any Religion of this planet has any truth behind it. I'm fine with the belief in a God, believe away, I'm not fine with the belief in a God of a man made religion...very reasonable.

"Yet you present it as an irrefutable fact that can't be evaluated or questioned without getting labeled as a religious advocate."

I present the belief in man made God's exactly as it is, moronic.

'"Hey, let's assume that the world was created from nothing by nothing without any concrete proof and then let's label anyone who opposes our belief as a psychotic, religious advocate that has an IQ lower than zero and then deny that there is no god because there is no physical proof yet we don't have any proof that God doesn't exist in the first place"'

"Yeah, right."

More like let's belief the most logical option with the most evidence and adapt our beliefs as we gain more understanding, rather than claiming to have all the answers with no evidence like the religious. Don't make out that Atheism is more arrogant than the man made religions because that's plain stupid. Also, not my fault you're either choosing to ignore my actual viewpoint or that you just plain don't understand it, but twisting it doesn't make it my opinion. I will say it again as plainly as I can for you:

Believe there is a God if you want, I don't care and nor do I think any less of you for doing so. I myself believe in the possibility of some form of creator, but believe in a man made religion and yes I think it means you lack a certain common sense.

"I know that the example was a little too extreme and not exactly true but my point is that all religions can be looked as ridiculous and far-fetched, atheism is no exception."

Considering you've made the common misinterpretation of Atheism I'm not surprised you feel that way.

"There is no proof it's man-made, and there's no concrete physical proof that it isn't."

The evidence suggests it is incredibly likely the religions of humans are man made. Islam is an adaptation of Judaism and Christianity is just an adaption of Judaism, which in turn is adapted from older religions. There are many indicators that make it quote obvious man is the creator of these God's and not the other way around. I suggest you do some research into it if you want to argue so strongly about it.

"Not really, but I can see why people might think I'm defending religion. I'm just stating that atheism is just as ridiculous as most religions. I don't agree that most people in general are stupid when it comes to actual intellect, but I agree that most people are pathetic when it comes to common sense."

You've substituted the word stupid for pathetic, and most are both but that's just a belief. OK, then you're saying that believing anything is stupid, not completely off the mark but kind of pointless at the same time. Still somewhat defended religion in this argument though.

"Again, no proof that's it's man-made. You claiming that religion is man-made is just as ridiculous as claiming that it isn't. You could literally reverse your entire argument with a religious standpoint and it would still be the same."

Quite frankly I don't have the time to go through the entire history of every religion and point out every single factor that makes it so painfully obvious that these stories are the lies of men, that doesn't make it ridiculous. What would be ridiculous about swapping the argument around is the fact that you'd be arguing against a majority of evidence, science and common sense. Nice try though, there is a reason why the vast majority of scientists (academics) believe religions are bullshit.

"I've been studying all forms of religion for almost all my life."

You definitely need to revisit atheism, I could recommend some good debates where atheists state what it is that the word means if you'd like.

"I was raised as a muslim, sure, but I was skeptical of all forms of religion. I learned more about Islam and eventually decided that I'd stay as one."

All I can say that I pity you, the indoctrination of children is probably one of my most despised things about religions, epically yours.

"Just because you chose a different path doesn't make you superior in any shape or form."

I never said it did, you assumed I was an atheist and you were wrong. You'll noticed I never actually assumed you were even religious. The only way I feel superior to the religious is that I'm not wasting my life praying to a non existent deity, and honestly I wish there was a way to show people how foolish it is to believe in their God's, not to make myself feel superior in any way but to free the religious from their ridiculous ways.

"Personal choice does play a role in deciding religion, not your heritage."

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that indoctrination plays a big part.

"It has nothing to do about being gullible or simple."

Agree to disagree, though I can see I've offended you as I now know you are religious so instead I will say that indoctrination plays the biggest part (which I do believe) and that this is not an attack on your parents in anyway as obviously they went through the same thing and so on.

I feel like this thread could just become a debate over who's right and not on religious (or non-religious) discrimination.

@mrhamwallet:

Do you need help picking out the key word here? It's 'belief

No, I don't. I have a brain but thanks nonetheless.

Yet if you actually listen to atheist speakers they will not say they can prove or be certain there is definitely no God or Creator but they believe there is not one due to a distinct lack of evidence and many other important reasons. I don't know why you don't understand this, it is a bit of a subtle difference between an atheist and an agnostic, but I'm not breaking it down for you any further.

Agnostic: Believing that god could or could not exist and you have no way of knowing.

Atheism: Believing there is no god because of the lack of physical evidence.

I completely understand the matter at hand. I stated that most atheists firmly believe that there is no existence of God, and a lot of them believe it's just a fairy tale with absolutely no way of existing. I never stated all atheists were like that.

Outrageous claims require outrageous evidence, there is nothing to suggest that any Religion of this planet has any truth behind it. I'm fine with the belief in a God, believe away, I'm not fine with the belief in a God of a man made religion...very reasonable.

Except there is no evidence that it's a man-made religion.

No concrete physical evidence over no evidence at all. Yeah, I'm taking the former.

I present the belief in man made God's exactly as it is, moronic.

Let me break this down for you:

1: No proof it's man-made

2: No concrete proof it's not man-made

3: Both are equally ridiculous

4: Believing either one doesn't hinder you academically.

5: Having a different viewpoint to someone else's is completely fine

6: Humans have the ability to choose either viewpoints without discrimination or being persuaded.

7: No proof that religion is moronic. It is to YOU, but not to everyone.

More like let's belief the most logical option with the most evidence and adapt our beliefs as we gain more understanding, rather than claiming to have all the answers with no evidence like the religious. Don't make out that Atheism is more arrogant than the man made religions because that's plain stupid. Also, not my fault you're either choosing to ignore my actual viewpoint or that you just plain don't understand it, but twisting it doesn't make it my opinion. I will say it again as plainly as I can for you:

Most evidence? Not really.

Religious people never claim to know everything, heck, one of the biggest themes in Islam is discovery. All we believe is there is a god and the Qu'ran is authentic. I'm not claiming atheism is or isn't more arrogant, just proving that every form of belief can be moronic to a human being and that it's all in the eyes of the beholder, I never said that was my actual view of atheism. You're misinterpreting my actual comment on purpose at this point.

Believe there is a God if you want, I don't care and nor do I think any less of you for doing so. I myself believe in the possibility of some form of creator, but believe in a man made religion and yes I think it means you lack a certain common sense.

You indirectly stated that religious people were babbling idiots like a page ago.

And I think you lack a certain type of common sense for not knowing the difference between fact and possibility and that there's numerous sides of the coin when it comes to religion.

Considering you've made the common misinterpretation of Atheism I'm not surprised you feel that way.

For the hundredth and 78 time, that wasn't my actual view point of atheism, I was trying to make a point.

The evidence suggests it is incredibly likely the religions of humans are man made. Islam is an adaptation of Judaism and Christianity is just an adaption of Judaism, which in turn is adapted from older religions. There are many indicators that make it quote obvious man is the creator of these God's and not the other way around. I suggest you do some research into it if you want to argue so strongly about it.

Disagreed. There is just as much of proof that they aren't man-made. Believe what form of evidence you want.

I am precisely qualified to talk about religion, I'm PRECISELY qualified to express other view points and I'm precisely qualified to talk about my own. Don't try to silence me man.

Quite frankly I don't have the time to go through the entire history of every religion and point out every single factor that makes it so painfully obvious that these stories are the lies of men, that doesn't make it ridiculous. What would be ridiculous about swapping the argument around is the fact that you'd be arguing against a majority of evidence, science and common sense. Nice try though, there is a reason why the vast majority of scientists (academics) believe religions are bullshit

Except science and evidence don't actually have much evidence about religion in the first place. My goal is to major and become a scientist like my grandfather and uncles did, who were all muslims and all majored science fields. Not all scientists are atheists, you just need to have an open mind and put all positive and possible religion and belief systems into consideration.

You definitely need to revisit atheism, I could recommend some good debates where atheists state what it is that the word means if you'd like.

I already know what it means.

All I can say that I pity you, the indoctrination of children is probably one of my most despised things about religions, epically yours.

My parents knew I was my own being and that I could choose to believe or do whatever I wanted. They gave me paths and showed me theirs, and I chose to believe in Islam. Parents don't have that much control over their children. By the time you grow older you can easily defy their belief anyway and go to what YOU believe, and I'm still standing with my belief because it is what I actually believe.

I never said it did, you assumed I was an atheist and you were wrong. You'll noticed I never actually assumed you were even religious. The only way I feel superior to the religious is that I'm not wasting my life praying to a non existent deity, and honestly I wish there was a way to show people how foolish it is to believe in their God's, not to make myself feel superior in any way but to free the religious from their ridiculous ways.

Judging from your posts in this thread, I'm pretty sure you can't blame me for assuming you were an atheist.

We have a different view point to yours. That is all.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that indoctrination plays a big part.

Not that much of a role when you grow older. Everyone has their free will and can decide whatever they want.

Agree to disagree, though I can see I've offended you as I now know you are religious so instead I will say that indoctrination plays the biggest part (which I do believe) and that this is not an attack on your parents in anyway as obviously they went through the same thing and so on.

Offended? For what reason? Because you have a different view point to mine's? If you actually seen any of my posts you would know that I constantly voice my dislike for SJWS who get offended over everything. I'm totally okay with your post, I'm not even that religious anyway so I'm as unbiased as you can get. I just find it hilarious and narrow-minded that you think religious people lack common sense when atheists do lack the same common sense as anyone else and just as much as theists.

Yeah, let's agree to disagree. We clearly have vastly different view points and this is going nowhere. Good day.

@knightsofdarkness2: so he openly supported the church, "by your admission". Anything you suggest is merely untestable hypothesis. He referenced the bible when reinforcing his agenda's ideology, he went to church, I don't see how you are coming up with "he was most likely an atheist", without being extremely offensive. Essentially you're saying so far is that "yes he said he was a Christian, went to church etc.... But he must have been an atheist based on his evil actions."....

@cable_extreme: I said he could be either agnostic or an atheist, maybe even none judging from his actual belief evidenced by sources like the Goebbels diaries and Hitler's Tabletalk. I never stated it was an irrefutable fact, I just said that the dude is anything but christian judging from said sources. You're literally just looking for ways to be offended at this point. His actions HAVE NOTHING to do with the debate at hand.

I think it's kinda a thing. Atheists are still in the minority, as much as the internet likes to say otherwise. I rarely tell people about my religious beliefs, or lack thereof, because I'm a bit afraid of what people would think.

Do you know that scientist believe things with no real evidence all the time?? I'm just asking. Not everything mentioned in the world of scientific study makes any sense.

Not every scientific study is worthy of money and admiration. For many studies, just the basic idea of what they are looking to find makes no sense in any way.

All I'm saying is that scientists say some crazy stuff sometimes. There are times they pull something completely out of their butts just to get funding.

You can be atheist without being adeist.

An atheist doesnt believe in the theological god, the theos of the bible.

An atheist may reserve the right to be agnostic about the posibility of a deity unrelated to established religions.

@dum529001: And to the rest of you: this is true. I have been looking up religious posts recently and this fit into that. Anyway, since when were athiests better educated. It all depends on upbringing. You could not know a thing about grammer and still be an athiest or a thiest. Also, mrhamwallet said that napoleon controlled people by using christianity and they were badly educated. This is false. In fact some little tidbit, napoleons greatest joy, was IN the Catholic church. Also, I will name some saints who were incredibly well educated christians, Thomas Aquanis, Thomas More, Alfred the great, Catherine of Alexandria, Ambrose, Athanasius, Jerome, Augustine, and many more. Some saints even got their education from God. Atheists litterally means: a person who disbelieves or lack of belief in a God or gods.

So if there is no God? Why is everything so complicated? If there is no God is there a such thing as a soul? If there is no God than how could anything have happened? One argument was that it was gravity that did all this, but then gravity is God, and apparently a very intellectual being.

@dum529001: Yes of course, but the difference lies in a bad scientist and a bad Christian (insert religion or choice).

A bad scientist believes with a lack of evidence and doesn't try and disprove their theory. A bad Christian doesn't believe on blind faith.

@knightsofdarkness2: you have no reason to believe he is an atheist or agnostic, he never denounced his faith and has pronounced it multiple times.

@knightsofdarkness2: "Agnostic: Believing that god could or could not exist and you have no way of knowing."

Right

"Atheism: Believing there is no god because of the lack of physical evidence."

Right, but it's not so black and white, and you made the mistake. Someone else put it better than I did, post #164: "You can be atheist without being adeist.

An atheist doesnt believe in the theological god, the theos of the bible.

An atheist may reserve the right to be agnostic about the posibility of a deity unrelated to established religions."

"I completely understand the matter at hand. I stated that most atheists firmly believe that there is no existence of God, and a lot of them believe it's just a fairy tale with absolutely no way of existing. I never stated all atheists were like that."

Well then you were generalising. This is also a little confusing, I believe there is likely no God, I believe there is a possibility of a creator but very much unlike the petty God's of the religious who want to be worshipped. I believe all religions are fairytales, so where exactly does that put me on your little scale?

"Except there is no evidence that it's a man-made religion."

There's plenty looking at it logically, but I do not have the time to go through what and why I'm afraid.

"No concrete physical evidence over no evidence at all. Yeah, I'm taking the former."

You are welcome to take whatever you like, assuming you live in a "free" country like myself.

"Let me break this down for you:"

Ok

"1: No proof it's man-made"

There is a lot more to support that it's man made than there is any to support its the word of God.

"2: No concrete proof it's not man-made"

I notice due to your bias you slipped the word concrete in there, there is no proof it's the word of God, if there were any one Religion would look a lot less foolish than the others.

"3: Both are equally ridiculous"

No....one is very much more ridiculous. As I said to believe in a creator is not ridiculous, to assume we know anything about that creator is very much ridiculous. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

"4: Believing either one doesn't hinder you academically."

I never said it did, in school there was a boy in my year who got A* in every single subject he took and I'm not exaggerating. He even got his Maths GCSE and A level early and still got top marks. In all the sciences he got top marks, he was about as socially inept as they come but academically a genius. This boy was a creationist, and therefore both very intelligent and very stupid at the same time. If he were bought up in a family that didn't force their religion down his throat it's incredibly unlikely he would have believed such nonsense.

"5: Having a different viewpoint to someone else's is completely fine"

Of course.

"6: Humans have the ability to choose either viewpoints without discrimination or being persuaded."

Well...a lot of the religious don't see it that way, you grow up in a Christians house you are going to be a Christian while you live there. Whether you want to believe in religious indoctrination or not it's very much real.

"7: No proof that religion is moronic. It is to YOU, but not to everyone."

There is proof creationism is moronic, different beliefs are different levels of moronic. But also yes they are very much moronic to ME.

"Most evidence? Not really."

Oh yes...that's kind of what science is going for, it's the opposite method of religion.

"Religious people never claim to know everything,"

They claim to know a great deal with no evidence, I'll continue on this later.

"heck, one of the biggest themes in Islam is discovery. All we believe is there is a god and the Qu'ran is authentic."

The Islamic believe a great many things. You believe you know the name of this God and his prophet, some believe he flew to the moon on a horse. I'm sorry I'm supposed to take that belief seriously?

"I'm not claiming atheism is or isn't more arrogant,"

Good because it's undeniably not.

"just proving that every form of belief can be moronic to a human being and that it's all in the eyes of the beholder,"

Yes a creationist will believe my beliefs moronic, it's called irony.

"I never said that was my actual view of atheism. You're misinterpreting my actual comment on purpose at this point."

Well you've misinterpreted numerous times and quite seriously but I'll get to that.

"You indirectly stated that religious people were babbling idiots like a page ago."

Yes, and you're still not getting it and this is why you cannot properly define atheism. A God, a creator, not your personal one. How is this such a hard concept? You think there was a creator who made everything and that's it = fine. You believe in a religious God = foolish.

"And I think you lack a certain type of common sense for not knowing the difference between fact and possibility and that there's numerous sides of the coin when it comes to religion."

And you're welcome to, I don't care for any side, just some less than others.

"For the hundredth and 78 time, that wasn't my actual view point of atheism, I was trying to make a point."

Well, as is common with a debate between a theist and an atheist we both seem to miss each others points.

"Disagreed. There is just as much of proof that they aren't man-made. Believe what form of evidence you want."

There is not, but I've stated before why I'm not going into this. You have to accept that most are man made, only one can be right at most...meaning the rest are man made. It's why you believe in your God but not others, so yes there is definitely more proof they are man made.

"I am precisely qualified to talk about religion, I'm PRECISELY qualified to express other view points and I'm precisely qualified to talk about my own. Don't try to silence me man."

I never tried to silence you, I suggested you do some research into it since you've proven numerous times you don't even fully understand what an atheist is. So all I can say is are you?

"Except science and evidence don't actually have much evidence about religion in the first place. My goal is to major and become a scientist like my grandfather and uncles did, who were all muslims and all majored science fields. Not all scientists are atheists, you just need to have an open mind and put all positive and possible religion and belief systems into consideration."

Good for you, and I wish you luck with that goal. I am aware not all scientists are atheists, if you cam be bothered to quote me on it I said something like "the vast majority are".

"I already know what it means."

No, you very much have made a very common mistake. Post #164 defines it about as well as anyone can so credit to @spareheadone, who if I remember correctly does believe in some kind of deity.

"My parents knew I was my own being and that I could choose to believe or do whatever I wanted. They gave me paths and showed me theirs, and I chose to believe in Islam. Parents don't have that much control over their children. By the time you grow older you can easily defy their belief anyway and go to what YOU believe, and I'm still standing with my belief because it is what I actually believe."

Well then your parents seem to be revolutionary Muslims. Most religious people are indoctrinated at a young age and many don't get that choice till they're older. You act like it's easy to disbelieve lies you've been told your whole life, it isn't as simple as you're making it out.

"Judging from your posts in this thread, I'm pretty sure you can't blame me for assuming you were an atheist."

No I don't, but it's your misunderstanding of what the word actually means that is the main problem.

"We have a different view point to yours. That is all."

Yes very different.

"Not that much of a role when you grow older. Everyone has their free will and can decide whatever they want."

You're using your personal experience and generalising and you're oh so very mistaken.

"Offended? For what reason? Because you have a different view point to mine's? If you actually seen any of my posts you would know that I constantly voice my dislike for SJWS who get offended over everything."

Cool, just making sure. In my experience I offend the religious easily without meaning too. We were talking about your family so I was just checking.

"I'm totally okay with your post,"

Cool.

"I'm not even that religious anyway so I'm as unbiased as you can get."

Now that's not true at all, you very much have a bias.

"I just find it hilarious and narrow-minded that you think religious people lack common sense when atheists do lack the same common sense as anyone else and just as much as theists."

What can I say? People who believe such nonsense should not be taken seriously imo.

"Yeah, let's agree to disagree. We clearly have vastly different view points and this is going nowhere. Good day."

OK. Good day.

People grow out of there rebellious phase towards what there parents believe in when they mature

"22.8% of the U.S. population is religiously unaffiliated, atheists made up 3.1% and agnostics made up 4% of the U.S. population."

*Will respond to MrHamWallet's response soon*

You have no reason to believe he's Christian when there are multiple quotations from actual Nazis and several reliable sources dating back to decades upon decades ago that he isn't.

And he never denounced his faith for tactical and political reasons, just like he ordered the Nazi party not to excommunicate from the churches for the exact same reasons.

@knightsofdarkness2: he never denounced his faith, and has stated that he is a Christian. Other sources aren't too reliable since they seem to contradict what he has said. If someone says you aren't religious and you are, does thier word hold any meaning? People are trying to hard to label Hitler as a non religious person and somehow throw in that he is an atheist. Absolutely absurd, if he isn't a Christian, he could be many other things while still remaining a theist....

Good point. I've heard people say this before. A supreme being that all other beings come from by any other name is still basically God but atheist want to acknowledge a supreme being while denying it at the same time. Its funny.

People believe Jesus existed and there is plenty of evidence he did as well as his identity as God in the flesh(God-man) who came to save sinners from their sin. That is not exactly what I would call blind faith. There is an element of faith that is about not being able to see EVERYTHING but faith does not require you to be 100 percent blind.

Whoa, how did this get 173 post?

Ohhhhh, that's how........ Right then...

Ok. So you do believe there to be a creator but probably not rhe way people normally think of him. I do see a bit of sense in that. But, why? Why would he bother to create us. Greek mythology has a reason. Christianity has a reason. I think muslims have a reason. For greeks it was because Mother Earth basically gave birth. To christians it's because God wants us to love him, which is why we have immortal souls and free will.

For whoever said it: Blind faith isn't really faith at all, it's just blundering around. Faith doesn't technically require a physical evidence but it does require something substantial enough. For Thomas the apostle it would have been faith that the others wouldn't have lied to him and that Christ could come back from the dead.

@wut: That is just not brave at all. kek

Another thing. Not just a christian thing this is like a philosophy thing, what is the point of life? Catholocism explains that. Islam explains that, although for them it's all rather men getting anything they want. Greek mythology sort of had an explanation. Obviously there are others but my main religious knowledge lies in Christianity, Islam, and greek mythology.

@thekillerklok: I am a conscientious objector!

@wut said:

Whoa, how did this get 173 post?

Ohhhhh, that's how........ Right then...

Next thing you know he gets hit by a car.

@the_caped_crusader:

Track suit = Too Fast.

@wut said:

@the_caped_crusader:

Track suit = Too Fast.

Damn. That was close.

@wut said:

@the_caped_crusader:

Track suit = Too Fast.

You know I always suspected there was a reason Russians wear tracksuits.

@knightsofdarkness2:

The Hitler case is... complicated.

First, he believed in god, or at least, used god in his communication strategies. since his invocated divine providence to have saved him in the attempting coup of the 21 july 1944.

Nazism itself is a mish-mash of pseudo paganism and philosophical BS, where christianity where seen as "tainted" by jewish thinking.

It's interesting to note, however, that entry unto the SS, an would be SS had to write he was "believing in god", even if whole unit where sometimes asked to renounce their catholics or christian beliefs.

All in all, I don't think Hitler was a real christian. He was rather an ego maniacs who ignored himself and project his own faith toward an image of god who happened to look just like him and to have the same idea as him...

We make our own meaning in life. And I certainly don't derive any meaning from bronze age texts.

@mrhamwallet:

Right, but it's not so black and white, and you made the mistake. Someone else put it better than I did, post #164: "You can be atheist without being adeist.

An atheist doesnt believe in the theological god, the theos of the bible.

An atheist may reserve the right to be agnostic about the posibility of a deity unrelated to established religions."

The dictionary definition of an atheist is:

I didn't ask about context. An atheist can believe in the possible existence of a god, but being an atheist means not believing any. Believing that god existing with an equal chance of not existing makes you an agnostic.

I also find it funny you are trying to hammer in this point yet you deny the existence of a religion-based god so strongly when god is believed to created religion, or at least some of them, anyway,

Well then you were generalising. This is also a little confusing, I believe there is likely no God, I believe there is a possibility of a creator but very much unlike the petty God's of the religious who want to be worshipped. I believe all religions are fairytales, so where exactly does that put me on your little scale?

The little scale I have is the dictionary and you seem to still be an atheist since religion is directly tied to God and dismissing it is kinda contradictory. You also state that you most likely believe in God not existing, when technically makes you an atheist.

There's plenty looking at it logically, but I do not have the time to go through what and why I'm afraid.

And there's plenty of evidence to support theists.

You are welcome to take whatever you like, assuming you live in a "free" country like myself.

Nobody really cares about someone's religion unless you live in those strictly religious countries, which I don't.

There is a lot more to support that it's man made than there is any to support its the word of God.

Not everything made up by the so-called "scientists" is actually true. This has been proven in many occasions, and some religion do support science in a way.

I notice due to your bias you slipped the word concrete in there, there is no proof it's the word of God, if there were any one Religion would look a lot less foolish than the others.

Yeah, let's just pretend that you don't have a preference as well. If we didn't this debate wouldn't have happened.

There's plenty of proof, nothing exactly physical, but there is proof a lot of the events in Islam and I guess maybe Christianity has transpired. Can't exactly speak for all the other religions.

No....one is very much more ridiculous. As I said to believe in a creator is not ridiculous, to assume we know anything about that creator is very much ridiculous. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Everything? You clearly haven't done your research.

There is just as much of evidence that god exists. If anything, atheism also needs to prove itself that God doesn't exist since they're going against a ton of history and events that have happened in the past.

I never said it did, in school there was a boy in my year who got A* in every single subject he took and I'm not exaggerating. He even got his Maths GCSE and A level early and still got top marks. In all the sciences he got top marks, he was about as socially inept as they come but academically a genius. This boy was a creationist, and therefore both very intelligent and very stupid at the same time. If he were bought up in a family that didn't force their religion down his throat it's incredibly unlikely he would have believed such nonsense.

If he's as smart as you claim I'm pretty he would already know that not everything science pulls out of it's ass is actually authentic. Atheism lacks serious proof that God doesn't exist and I know you'll disagree since what's proof to YOU isn't exactly good enough proof to disprove of my belief to ME.

Well...a lot of the religious don't see it that way, you grow up in a Christians house you are going to be a Christian while you live there. Whether you want to believe in religious indoctrination or not it's very much real.

You have to actually believe in Christianity to be a christian. Yes religious indoctrination is real, but it's not that hard to break from when you explore other religions and belief systems like I did.

There is proof creationism is moronic, different beliefs are different levels of moronic. But also yes they are very much moronic to ME.

There is proof it isn't. You will deny this, but it's there. You can believe what you want, but religion has proof behind it.

Oh yes...that's kind of what science is going for, it's the opposite method of religion.

Scientific and religious ideologies can blend together just fine. This old misconception needs to die. Science = Not Always Accurate and Science = Can Work Alongside Religion. Humans don't have all the answers.

They claim to know a great deal with no evidence, I'll continue on this later.

Atheists act like they know a great deal with no evidence, either.

You think all religion is man-made: I don't. You think they have enough evidence to claim all religion is false: I don't.

You think religion has no evidence at all, which is false. I'm not denying atheists don't have "evidence", but that they don't have enough or either their so called "evidence" isn't as significant to me as it is to you.

The Islamic believe a great many things. You believe you know the name of this God and his prophet, some believe he flew to the moon on a horse. I'm sorry I'm supposed to take that belief seriously?

Atheism also claims a certainty of many things as well. Atheism is just as ridiculous as most religions when it comes to actual evidence.

Also, nobody is forcing you to.

Good because it's undeniably not.

Most religions aren't arrogant, either.

Yes a creationist will believe my beliefs moronic, it's called irony.

At least a lot of them don't shove what they think is right and present it as a fact to those who don't.

Well you've misinterpreted numerous times and quite seriously but I'll get to that.

You have as well but again, this isn't exactly unexpected. Most religious debates don't go anywhere, especially with drastically opposite view points.

Yes, and you're still not getting it and this is why you cannot properly define atheism. A God, a creator, not your personal one. How is this such a hard concept? You think there was a creator who made everything and that's it = fine. You believe in a religious God = foolish.

I believe anyone has the right to have a religious belief and considering mine is perfectly founded with evidence, I wouldn't constitute it as foolish, You know what I find foolish? You thinking everyone has to accept and adhere to what you constitute as actual evidence.

Well, as is common with a debate between a theist and an atheist we both seem to miss each others points.

Pretty much all religion-based debates go down like this unfortunately.

There is not, but I've stated before why I'm not going into this. You have to accept that most are man made, only one can be right at most...meaning the rest are man made. It's why you believe in your God but not others, so yes there is definitely more proof they are man made.

Christianity and Islam is rather similar and aren't considered man-made so I don't think all non-Islam religions are bullshit but this debate doesn't really have much to do with my personal opinion but proving that not all religion is man-made.

I never tried to silence you, I suggested you do some research into it since you've proven numerous times you don't even fully understand what an atheist is. So all I can say is are you?

No, you very much have made a very common mistake. Post #164 defines it about as well as anyone can so credit to @spareheadone, who if I remember correctly does believe in some kind of deity.

Stop blending actual definition with context. Atheism is defined as believing in no god for whatever reason. Just as long as you believe there is likely no god instead of believing both have a equal chance of being true like an agnostic, than you are an atheist. End of story.

Well then your parents seem to be revolutionary Muslims. Most religious people are indoctrinated at a young age and many don't get that choice till they're older. You act like it's easy to disbelieve lies you've been told your whole life, it isn't as simple as you're making it out.

If you don't exactly believe them then chances are you probably won't end up in that religion when you grow up. It's pretty easy to change religion just as long as you explore other religions and view points like I did.

Ryagan said it pretty well. Just as long as you don't believe in that religion, you technically aren't from that religion. Parents can't change that.

No I don't, but it's your misunderstanding of what the word actually means that is the main problem.

And you not knowing the difference between context and definition and possibility and fact is what I'd constitute as the "main" problem.

You're using your personal experience and generalising and you're oh so very mistaken.

No, I haven't. I stated that if people explored other religions and possibilities like I did then maybe it wouldn't be so hard to break from indoctrination, which isn't that hard to begin with.

Now that's not true at all, you very much have a bias.

I wouldn't label it a bias, but a preference. Religion has evidence and a lot of history to back it up, but nothing physical, hence why I added the word "concrete". Atheism barely has any substantial proof other than "this sounds ridiculous so this is false", hence why I prefer religion.

And no I'm not talking about those mice-worshipping bullshit, but the actual core religions.

What can I say? People who believe such nonsense should not be taken seriously imo.

People who claim something is nonsense without substantial proof shouldn't be taken seriously either.

All in all, stating religious people are stupid in terms of common sense for not having the same belief as you is frankly ridiculous and ignorant. Your actual belief has nothing to do with common sense. You have nothing to prove with that point.

Describing the God/s of religion as petty isn't true either. Humanity is generally created to reward good people and God to be worshipped. If you created something innovative and unique, you would want to be credited, right?

This.

Just like the history of the roman catholic church.

He never denounced his fate in public for tactical reasons as I've stated before. Several documentations state that he was disdainful of Christianity, and even if he wasn't, why is he so anti-clerical then?

He gained a certain level of support from churches, only then to betray them and destroy them. He was using christianity as a tool.

When reliable and authentic sources such as Hitler's Tabletalk and the Goebbel's Diaries perfectly proving that he said hates Christianity, I see little to no reason for him to be considered one. I never said he was an atheist for sure, I just said he could be one, especially when said sources lean Hitler to be one or at least an agnostic or a nihilist.

This. A lot of evidence leans towards Hitler not being a real Christian. Mein Krampf certainly hinted he could be a possible theist and that he believed in a god that had the exact same ideals as him and that Hitler was like a prophet, but Goebbels and Hitler's Tabletalk suggest against this and that he's either agnostic or an atheist or just a nihilist.

@knightsofdarkness2: all non nazi parties... Has nothing to do with religion.

"In Mein Kampf, Hitler makes a number of religious allusions, claiming to be "acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator" and to have been chosen by providence.[14][20] In a 1922 speech he said,"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter [...] who [...] recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them..."[21] In a 1928 speech, he said: "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity ... in fact our movement is Christian."[22]"

From his own mouth

@sophia89: Hey, he has got crap to do.

This. His insane amount of anti-clericalism wouldn't make sense if he was Christian. He was simply using Christianity for support and even ordered the Nazi Party not to cut ties with them.

Hitler's Tabletalk rallies against the fact that Hitler believed in anything, thus making him a nihilist but that's a debate for another day. If there's anything anyone can agree on is that Hitler is anything but Christian, period.

Again, it wouldn't make sense if he publicly denounced Christianity when he ordered the Nazi Party to not cut ties with them for political reasons. Multiple sources, some from Nazi party members themselves state that he hated Christianity. Him being anti-clerical is evidenced by these historical occurrences I posted earlier.

He's not a real Christian. End of story.

I already know he wasn't a christian. Hitler mixed pagan religions in with christianity and when you do that you are not practicing christianity. Hitler's paganism is just like the roman catholic church(that's why I mentioned the roman catholic church in my previous post)..

How is hitler like the Roman Catholic Church? If you trace it back the Roman Catholic Church is the original christianity. Even Islam used some things from christianity. Oh and, just a fun fact, the nazy symbol was actually to ward off a certain kind of monster that took the form of people you knew so it could eat you, kind of creepy.

The Roman catholic church is not the original christianity. The churches who accepted the gospel that was preached to them by Jesus' disciples are the first of the early christian church. Roman catholicism is merely an attempt by Rome to control christianity since they could not wipe it out. First Rome tried to wipe christianity out and when they failed they decided to mix christianity with other pagan religions. When you mix christianity with other religions then it is no longer christianity.

Roman catholicism is the religion of the Roman government and nothing more. Anyone who did not agree with any of the unbiblical practices that the roman catholic church did were hunted down and killed. Real christians, which are those who practice pure christianity, were oppressed and killed by the Roman catholic church(beheaded, burned at the stake, etc).

The Roman catholic church is no different than the armies of Islam.

Christians don't kill people for reading the Bible and worship Mary as God. Christians don't walk around dressed like Babylonians. Christians do not pray like the prophets of Baal. Christians don't claim they can forgive sin and give eternal life, which is something only God can do.

@dum529001: Actually Rome was what brought Catholicism around the world. Because it was the biggest empire so information could go practically anywhere. Yes it did try to destroy it but that was in and out.

Rome mixes christianity with other religions and has killed real christians who refused to do so. The Spanish Inquisition was not a game-show.

@dum529001: No, Some of Romes rulers and higher level citizens did that. Yes it did kill many christians, and tortured, some of which even did as they said and worshipped the false gods and the emperor. But God brought good from that. Just as he brought good from the crucifix.

Also, you are incorrect about us hunting down people who didn't believe in what we believe, that is what muslims do. And where are these crazy ideas that we worship Mary coming from?! And we don't claim we can forgive sin and grant eternal life. I assume you mean when Rome was around its prime time. In that case, no. Catholicism was not ever really accepted by Rome for extended periods of time. Even when Catholicism was considered fine by the government there were still persecutions.

This giant debate is why I'm glad I'm a Buddhist. ._.

@retconcrisis: I have never met a buddhist before. So, what does "the enlightened one" or "the awakened one" say about religious debate?. I am not trying to insult you just in case it sounded that way.