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#1 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio


#2 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

http://blueprintforlife.com/blog/the-faith-of-a-little-child/

Video

When 11-year-old Logan Henderson called KSBJ Christian radio, he shared a message he received from God that has encouraged thousands around the world about Christ’s amazing love.

made a phone call to the radio station very upset because he had to put down a calf that he loved. The message he shared made me think of what is truly important this time of year, and that no matter what challenges we are called to face in our lives, Somebody knows and understands what it is that we are going through.

http://www.brutallyhonest.org/brutally_honest/2007/12/logan-the-sky-a.html

A part of me thinks this can't be real. Honest. It's a bit on the sappy side but damn... it's effective. It's a kid. Sometimes I wish I wasn't such a cynic. Anyway, I'll let you be the judge:

Here you'll find the video clip that was created just for you. We've placed the video on YouTube so that you canwatch it and share with family and friends.

Logan is a 11 year-old boy who lives on a ranch in a very small town in Nebraska. Logan listens to Christian Radio station 89.3FM KSBJ which broadcasts from Houston, TX. Logan called the radio station distraught because he had to take down a calf . His words have wisdom beyond his years.

Since airing the audio of the phone call and now the making of the video clip, it has taken on a life of its own. People are forwarding it all over the world. We encourage you to share the love of Christ with anyone you can.

#3 Posted by GodOfMischief (616 posts) - - Show Bio

Well if the animal was in pain and suffering, then I believe he did the right thing. That's just my opinion.

#4 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

First, of all it can't still be consisted murder because it's an animal. You can't murder an animal.

Secondly, I would think most people would consider putting an injured and dying animal out of its misery the moral thing to do. Leaving it there to suffer in pain doesn't seem like a thing someone with good morals would do. Even if you're not an animal person.

#5 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's the right thing. We have no right to end some life because we think it should die instead of suffering.

#6 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1: You a vegetarian?

#7 Posted by Naamah_Obyzouth (3840 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday said:

@PrinceAragorn1: You a vegetarian?

?why?

#9 Posted by mk111 (3136 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, if the animal was in pain, then I see nothing wrong with it.

#10 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1: Just wondering if it's ok to kill an animal that's perfectly fine just to eat it, but not one that is suffering and dying to put it out of it's misery.

#11 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Just wondering if it's ok to kill an animal that's perfectly fine just to eat it, but not one that is suffering and dying to put it out of it's misery.

You guessed right. I am vegetarian. Vegetarian till I have no choice (Edible plants in the world are gone)

#12 Posted by Naamah_Obyzouth (3840 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1: Plants are living organisms as well. You have no choice but to destroy life. Your a human. Deal with it. I have no issues with people choosing to be a vegetarian... But please don't delude yourself into thinking its some high in mighty way of life. You eat plants. Plants that would still be alive if you did not need to eat them. Based on your logic that's murder as well.

#13 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Captain_Yesterday said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Just wondering if it's ok to kill an animal that's perfectly fine just to eat it, but not one that is suffering and dying to put it out of it's misery.

You guessed right. I am vegetarian. Vegetarian till I have no choice (Edible plants in the world are gone)

Aren't plants living too?

@Captain_Yesterday said:

First, of all it can't still be consisted murder because it's an animal. You can't murder an animal.

According to:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081011173525AAcoUhN and all the comments made.

Why is it illegal to kill a cat, dog etc.. but...?
I was reading a report in which someone went to prison for microwaving a kitten to death, and someone else went to prison for poisoning his girlfriends puppy...
why is it illegal to do that but not illegal to kill a cockroach, etc...
they also kill chickens and cow and other for food.

If a cop was standing 5 feet away from you and a playful dog, he can not arrest you for brutally killing that dog with a kitchen knife for purpose of killing it only and not eating it?

How about if a cop was standing 5 feet from you and another man, but you want to kill him (not murder him) for food?

#14 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@Naamah_Obyzouth:

There is still a definite difference between eating a plant and eating animals. And if you feel being vegetarian is not all that great, it's your opinion. Thanks for the advice, but keep it to yourself.

#15 Posted by Imagine_Man15 (1784 posts) - - Show Bio

It was the right thing to do. I've had to put down pets as well, because they were in pain... the real crime would be to let them suffer.

#16 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSecondOpinion said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Captain_Yesterday said:

@PrinceAragorn1: Just wondering if it's ok to kill an animal that's perfectly fine just to eat it, but not one that is suffering and dying to put it out of it's misery.

You guessed right. I am vegetarian. Vegetarian till I have no choice (Edible plants in the world are gone)

Aren't plants living too?

Yeah, but they don't resist if we try to eat them XD

And not like I'm going to eat the bark and the leaves and everything.. Fruits and some edible leaves.. that's all. (Fruits are meant to be eaten anyway)

#17 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSecondOpinion: You really use yahoo answers as a source?

Anyway, there is a difference between murder and committing a crime. It's a crime to kill most animals, and to mutate, torture and do various other horrible things to them, but it's still not murder.

My man Oxford agrees with me.

As for your questions

The cop would arrest me, yes. But of all the various things he could charge me with murder is not among them.

Killing another human for food? Now we're just getting silly. Apples and Oranges.

#18 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday: The yahoo wasn't meant for the source. It was meant to bring up questions that hasn't been questioned in this thread yet. But anyway, that was well said.

#19 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday said:

First, of all it can't still be consisted murder because it's an animal. You can't murder an animal.

Secondly, I would think most people would consider putting an injured and dying animal out of its misery the moral thing to do. Leaving it there to suffer in pain doesn't seem like a thing someone with good morals would do. Even if you're not an animal person.

#20 Posted by jeanlucpicard (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

I see nothing wrong with it.

#21 Posted by INLIFE (1600 posts) - - Show Bio

"a message he received from God"

I am very interested in this. Truly, I can't help but wonder if we are going to see him in the future because of another message he receives from God.

#22 Posted by Joygirl (15379 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread gives me confusing ideas and makes me want to run away without answering. Think I will.

#23 Posted by Nefarious (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

Love makes you do crazy things.

#24 Posted by redbird3rdboywonder (3612 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain_Yesterday said:

First, of all it can't still be consisted murder because it's an animal. You can't murder an animal.

Secondly, I would think most people would consider putting an injured and dying animal out of its misery the moral thing to do. Leaving it there to suffer in pain doesn't seem like a thing someone with good morals would do. Even if you're not an animal person.

The flaw in your logic is the fact that we as humans are still animals and as such murder is still murder no matter how you try and spin it, to take away a life in any form is still an act of murder.

#25 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Captain_Yesterday said:

First, of all it can't still be consisted murder because it's an animal. You can't murder an animal.

Secondly, I would think most people would consider putting an injured and dying animal out of its misery the moral thing to do. Leaving it there to suffer in pain doesn't seem like a thing someone with good morals would do. Even if you're not an animal person.

The flaw in your logic is the fact that we as humans are still animals and as such murder is still murder no matter how you try and spin it, to take away a life in any form is still an act of murder.

I am not sure I had a look at a couple of definitions

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/murder

Murder is a term used by law to suggest the unlawful act of killing someone.

#26 Posted by SC (11970 posts) - - Show Bio

So much stuff to address really in one thread. The success of our species in part is due to the relatively long period in which our young is given time to be cared for by its elders. We are more dependent on our parents/caregivers in our early years longer than most other animals. Physically, mentally and emotionally dependent and we also experience our most rapid mental and intellectual growth during that time. The things you can teach a child during those stages is both incredibly amazing and incredibly scary so locking them so rigidly into any sort of faith/religion system is so incredibly scary to me. It makes them very resistant to opposing or conflicting ideas and lessens their true capacity to choose.

As far as life? Its one thing that people have traditionally sucked at being able to process. So many people let alone animals have had to suffer extraordinary painful and torturous periods because of lack of empathy, lack of consideration, lack of overcoming natural fears of death and lack of ability to distinguish when a life has the potential to get better or never improve.

Oh and doing things for a lack of reason and just faith? So when the story is warm and gives everyone fuzzies because its a cute lil cowboy putting down a calf because its special and in poor health its god right, and out of the billions of children all with their own unique struggles god spoke to this one, and its life affirming but when some stressed mother ends up drowning her children because of some perceived supernatural/moral reason like god wanted her to, then its demonic possession eh.

Fluffy news stories as a side note always make me roll my eyes, I love how magical angelic harp music suddenly overlays the phone call. Informative, non bias, hard hitting intelligent journalism at its best.

Moderator
#27 Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope (2388 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry to all you vegetarians out there, but animals since the dawn of time have been doing pretty horrific things to each other to survive, mate or just because they're jerks. (ever see what dolphins do to porpoises? Makes humans look like teddy bears.)

So, no I don't agree with it being "murder". Unless for food or needed items, I believe in the Indian way; kill only what you need. Factory farms kill to feed millions, so while they kill more than an individual needs on mass the populace benefits from it.

That being said, if the animal suffers, with absolutely no way to help them, the only way to help them is to let them go. It's a damn shame because sometimes animals almost seem like people, but it's beyond your ability to help. So for that I think the kid was justified. Heartbreaking, yes.

I highly doubt I'd be able to do the same if I was in his position.

#28 Posted by MonsterStomp (13193 posts) - - Show Bio

Human's have a 'effed up logic on killing.

I believe it was a moral thing for this child to do, but where are all the other debates coming from?

#29 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is a discussion about farm practices, that's one thing. That OP's poll is flawed - the animal was going to be put down, regardless.

However, a child who claims quite matter-of-factly God "spoke" to him I find alarming.

#30 Posted by thehummingbird (3378 posts) - - Show Bio

I can not even believe the ignorance that is being thrown around here about vegetarianism. Yes animals do kill and each other because that is what animals were created to do. There is a circle of life in nature. Many humans have become out of balance with the world around them, we do not have claws or sharp teeth because we were not designed to hunt and kill animals. Not to mention we must cook meat or we get sick from eating it because we do not have the proper enzymes to break it down. So when people act like vegetarians are being ridiculous it is kind of ironic since they are following a more natural diet for humans. I have not hatred or anger against people who eat meat, it is their choice, but you should be educated on a subject before you attack another's way of life. One of the biggest reasons people do switch to being vegetarianism is because of the cruelty to animals that happens in what I am going to call meat making factories because that is essentially what they are. Animals are debeaked and crippled and placed in a cage where they can not even move (to help tenderize the meat I have heard before, and it is cheaper obviously) and given added hormones; their whole and very short life is spent in immense pain and agony. They may not be human, but they do feel and understand what is happening to them is awful. So often times people choose to give up meat as to not support the industry that the meat comes from; our money feeds them. Lastly eating meat is bad for the environment tons of methane gas is produced because of the ridiculous amount of meat our society demands each day. If people could not eat meat even one day a week it would greatly help reduce the methane gas we produce and let into the atmosphere. Now all of these reasons are respectable reasons for choosing to give up meat, and should be respected and should not be met with a comment as "animals hurt each other all the time" the difference is animals have to do that to survive we do not. We choose to.

On the note of the calf if it could not get better and was in perpetual misery then kill it to save it from a life of misery; if it had any chance of happiness in life or could be cured keep it alive and get it fixed up. I was not there so I can not say how the cow was for sure.

#31 Posted by lagoon_boy (10951 posts) - - Show Bio

Mature decision in my opinion.

#32 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

Still, 11 year is sort of.. too young to do such a thing.

#33 Posted by pooty (10335 posts) - - Show Bio

I eat meat. I love meat. I see no problem killing animals for food. But I have a REAL PROBLEM with an 11 yr old killing anything. I have an even BIGGER PROBLEM with him obeying invisible voices. This does not bode well.

#34 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

So much stuff to address really in one thread. The success of our species in part is due to the relatively long period in which our young is given time to be cared for by its elders. We are more dependent on our parents/caregivers in our early years longer than most other animals. Physically, mentally and emotionally dependent and we also experience our most rapid mental and intellectual growth during that time. The things you can teach a child during those stages is both incredibly amazing and incredibly scary so locking them so rigidly into any sort of faith/religion system is so incredibly scary to me. It makes them very resistant to opposing or conflicting ideas and lessens their true capacity to choose.

As far as life? Its one thing that people have traditionally sucked at being able to process. So many people let alone animals have had to suffer extraordinary painful and torturous periods because of lack of empathy, lack of consideration, lack of overcoming natural fears of death and lack of ability to distinguish when a life has the potential to get better or never improve.

Oh and doing things for a lack of reason and just faith? So when the story is warm and gives everyone fuzzies because its a cute lil cowboy putting down a calf because its special and in poor health its god right, and out of the billions of children all with their own unique struggles god spoke to this one, and its life affirming but when some stressed mother ends up drowning her children because of some perceived supernatural/moral reason like god wanted her to, then its demonic possession eh.

Fluffy news stories as a side note always make me roll my eyes, I love how magical angelic harp music suddenly overlays the phone call. Informative, non bias, hard hitting intelligent journalism at its best.

I agree.

So what do you think to the child putting down the animal?

#35 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehummingbird said:

I can not even believe the ignorance that is being thrown around here about vegetarianism. Yes animals do kill and each other because that is what animals were created to do. There is a circle of life in nature. Many humans have become out of balance with the world around them, we do not have claws or sharp teeth because we were not designed to hunt and kill animals. Not to mention we must cook meat or we get sick from eating it because we do not have the proper enzymes to break it down. So when people act like vegetarians are being ridiculous it is kind of ironic since they are following a more natural diet for humans. I have not hatred or anger against people who eat meat, it is their choice, but you should be educated on a subject before you attack another's way of life. One of the biggest reasons people do switch to being vegetarianism is because of the cruelty to animals that happens in what I am going to call meat making factories because that is essentially what they are. Animals are debeaked and crippled and placed in a cage where they can not even move (to help tenderize the meat I have heard before, and it is cheaper obviously) and given added hormones; their whole and very short life is spent in immense pain and agony. They may not be human, but they do feel and understand what is happening to them is awful. So often times people choose to give up meat as to not support the industry that the meat comes from; our money feeds them. Lastly eating meat is bad for the environment tons of methane gas is produced because of the ridiculous amount of meat our society demands each day. If people could not eat meat even one day a week it would greatly help reduce the methane gas we produce and let into the atmosphere. Now all of these reasons are respectable reasons for choosing to give up meat, and should be respected and should not be met with a comment as "animals hurt each other all the time" the difference is animals have to do that to survive we do not. We choose to.

On the note of the calf if it could not get better and was in perpetual misery then kill it to save it from a life of misery; if it had any chance of happiness in life or could be cured keep it alive and get it fixed up. I was not there so I can not say how the cow was for sure.

We actually don't know what is the best/most natural diet for humans.

I have big problems with vegetarianism.I mean people say it is cruel to eat animals but it would be alot more cruel to just let animals become extinct would it not? We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them.

Life eats life.

#36 Posted by Captain_Yesterday (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Captain_Yesterday said:

First, of all it can't still be consisted murder because it's an animal. You can't murder an animal.

Secondly, I would think most people would consider putting an injured and dying animal out of its misery the moral thing to do. Leaving it there to suffer in pain doesn't seem like a thing someone with good morals would do. Even if you're not an animal person.

The flaw in your logic is the fact that we as humans are still animals and as such murder is still murder no matter how you try and spin it, to take away a life in any form is still an act of murder.

The flaw in your logic is the understanding of the word murder. Both @mrdecepticonleader: and I have provided links with definitions to the word.

A person may find it morally unethical, and it may even be against the law to kill another animal. But, it's not murder both in the actual definition of the word and in the way it is legally used in the court of law.

In addition, as others have pointed out, plants are a form a life, so by your logic, eating plants or even killing weeds is murder.

#37 Posted by Ancient_Spirits_0f_Evil (65 posts) - - Show Bio

IF... god tellss you! THEN! it mussst be OKAY!!!

Yessssss.....

#38 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_Spirits_0f_Evil said:

IF... god tellss you! THEN! it mussst be OKAY!!!

Yessssss.....

?

Seriously?

#39 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

I eat meat. I love meat. I see no problem killing animals for food. But I have a REAL PROBLEM with an 11 yr old killing anything. I have an even BIGGER PROBLEM with him obeying invisible voices. This does not bode well.

I don't eat meat but the last two statements are precisely in agreement with my thoughts. Only that 11 year old killing is the bigger problem imo.

#40 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

I love how magical angelic harp music suddenly overlays the phone call. Informative, non bias, hard hitting intelligent journalism at its best.

The call was captured and edited.

@lykopis said:

If this is a discussion about farm practices, that's one thing. That OP's poll is flawed - the animal was going to be put down, regardless.

However, a child who claims quite matter-of-factly God "spoke" to him I find alarming.

This post said it before I could.

#41 Posted by SC (11970 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehummingbird said:

I can not even believe the ignorance that is being thrown around here about vegetarianism. Yes animals do kill and each other because that is what animals were created to do. There is a circle of life in nature. Many humans have become out of balance with the world around them, we do not have claws or sharp teeth because we were not designed to hunt and kill animals. Not to mention we must cook meat or we get sick from eating it because we do not have the proper enzymes to break it down. So when people act like vegetarians are being ridiculous it is kind of ironic since they are following a more natural diet for humans. I have not hatred or anger against people who eat meat, it is their choice, but you should be educated on a subject before you attack another's way of life. One of the biggest reasons people do switch to being vegetarianism is because of the cruelty to animals that happens in what I am going to call meat making factories because that is essentially what they are. Animals are debeaked and crippled and placed in a cage where they can not even move (to help tenderize the meat I have heard before, and it is cheaper obviously) and given added hormones; their whole and very short life is spent in immense pain and agony. They may not be human, but they do feel and understand what is happening to them is awful. So often times people choose to give up meat as to not support the industry that the meat comes from; our money feeds them. Lastly eating meat is bad for the environment tons of methane gas is produced because of the ridiculous amount of meat our society demands each day. If people could not eat meat even one day a week it would greatly help reduce the methane gas we produce and let into the atmosphere. Now all of these reasons are respectable reasons for choosing to give up meat, and should be respected and should not be met with a comment as "animals hurt each other all the time" the difference is animals have to do that to survive we do not. We choose to.

On the note of the calf if it could not get better and was in perpetual misery then kill it to save it from a life of misery; if it had any chance of happiness in life or could be cured keep it alive and get it fixed up. I was not there so I can not say how the cow was for sure.

Great break down THB, even though I do eat meat, I understand and respect why some people opt not to.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

I agree.

So what do you think to the child putting down the animal?

Thank you.

I think a few things depending on what one could choose to focus on. The fact that its a child? The reason why the child did it, how and why, or the putting down of an animal? Each facet could be spoken about at fair length. A few phone calls and interviews isn't really enough for me to gauge the maturity, and intelligence and reasoning skills of the child nor his parents (presumably the ones he lives with and educates him about life, death and farm activities) as far as in the context of putting down animals so I wouldn't really form a hard opinion here knowing so little in those regards, and I can think of examples of a child putting down an animal I would be okay with and examples I would not be okay with. Here in this specific instance I am far more concerned about the child's seemingly rigid and sincere and infallible belief he is communicating with god which is much more clear and demonstrated.

Oh by the way, I think the hummingbird was advocating understanding and education regarding why some vegetarians are vegetarians. Not all vegetarians believe eating meat is cruel, nor have that as the or a reason they don't eat meat. Some do they because many of the practices involved with mass producing meat for consumers is cruel because its based on very outdated knowledge regarding animals and how intelligent and aware they are. Its a little bit like cigarettes, except that directly affects our health and enjoyment of life and so our society/culture shifted to accommodate new information/research. I myself eat meat, but many industries practices regrading food (and everything human related really) is barbaric and needlessly greedy. It can be improved, but since their wouldn't be any short term benefits and only long term benefits it probably won't. A lot of the animals like cows I believe we going extinct naturally before we started to use them, and then their populations exploded at the expense of other animals. A common enough joke (I think even Richard Dawkings has used it) but the best evolution trick for a species ever? Is to be tasty to humans, because those species over succeed and experience exponential growth. Thats not an inherently good or bad thing, but combined with humans all too common tendencies for laziness, greed and possession, like how those things affect other aspects of life on Earth (humans included) it can cause unforeseen problems for all.

Life does eat life true, but thats like justifying zombies practices by saying dead eat life when it really depends more than anything. Heh heh ^_^

@SpideyPresence said:

@SC said:

I love how magical angelic harp music suddenly overlays the phone call. Informative, non bias, hard hitting intelligent journalism at its best.

The call was captured and edited.

Hello SpideyPresence. I am not sure what your post means exactly sorry? Did you misunderstand my post or were under the impression I did not realize it was edited? That was what my original post implied. The manufactured nature of such stories. Hope that helps if not let me know what you meant, cheers.

Moderator
#42 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader said:

We actually don't know what is the best/most natural diet for humans.

I have big problems with vegetarianism.I mean people say it is cruel to eat animals but it would be alot more cruel to just let animals become extinct would it not? We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them.

Life eats life.

Er.. by eating animals, you're not helping them survive.. how do the animals you eat stay alive? lol

And you still have uses for most of the animals, you get milk, and fine class wool.. and stuff..

#43 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

We actually don't know what is the best/most natural diet for humans.

I have big problems with vegetarianism.I mean people say it is cruel to eat animals but it would be alot more cruel to just let animals become extinct would it not? We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them.

Life eats life.

Er.. by eating animals, you're not helping them survive.. how do the animals you eat stay alive? lol

And you still have uses for most of the animals, you get milk, and fine class wool.. and stuff..

Did you not read my post properly?

I will re post the part you forgot to read/acknowledge.

"We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them."

I respect a persons right to be a vegetarian that's fine with me but when people use the cruelty argument I have to point that factor out.

One of the reasons animals like tigers are endangered is because we don't breed then continuously really because we don't eat them animals such as cows,chickens,sheep etc will not go extinct as long as we carry on eating them.

#44 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@thehummingbird said:

I can not even believe the ignorance that is being thrown around here about vegetarianism. Yes animals do kill and each other because that is what animals were created to do. There is a circle of life in nature. Many humans have become out of balance with the world around them, we do not have claws or sharp teeth because we were not designed to hunt and kill animals. Not to mention we must cook meat or we get sick from eating it because we do not have the proper enzymes to break it down. So when people act like vegetarians are being ridiculous it is kind of ironic since they are following a more natural diet for humans. I have not hatred or anger against people who eat meat, it is their choice, but you should be educated on a subject before you attack another's way of life. One of the biggest reasons people do switch to being vegetarianism is because of the cruelty to animals that happens in what I am going to call meat making factories because that is essentially what they are. Animals are debeaked and crippled and placed in a cage where they can not even move (to help tenderize the meat I have heard before, and it is cheaper obviously) and given added hormones; their whole and very short life is spent in immense pain and agony. They may not be human, but they do feel and understand what is happening to them is awful. So often times people choose to give up meat as to not support the industry that the meat comes from; our money feeds them. Lastly eating meat is bad for the environment tons of methane gas is produced because of the ridiculous amount of meat our society demands each day. If people could not eat meat even one day a week it would greatly help reduce the methane gas we produce and let into the atmosphere. Now all of these reasons are respectable reasons for choosing to give up meat, and should be respected and should not be met with a comment as "animals hurt each other all the time" the difference is animals have to do that to survive we do not. We choose to.

On the note of the calf if it could not get better and was in perpetual misery then kill it to save it from a life of misery; if it had any chance of happiness in life or could be cured keep it alive and get it fixed up. I was not there so I can not say how the cow was for sure.

Great break down THB, even though I do eat meat, I understand and respect why some people opt not to.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

I agree.

So what do you think to the child putting down the animal?

Thank you.

I think a few things depending on what one could choose to focus on. The fact that its a child? The reason why the child did it, how and why, or the putting down of an animal? Each facet could be spoken about at fair length. A few phone calls and interviews isn't really enough for me to gauge the maturity, and intelligence and reasoning skills of the child nor his parents (presumably the ones he lives with and educates him about life, death and farm activities) as far as in the context of putting down animals so I wouldn't really form a hard opinion here knowing so little in those regards, and I can think of examples of a child putting down an animal I would be okay with and examples I would not be okay with. Here in this specific instance I am far more concerned about the child's seemingly rigid and sincere and infallible belief he is communicating with god which is much more clear and demonstrated.

Oh by the way, I think the hummingbird was advocating understanding and education regarding why some vegetarians are vegetarians. Not all vegetarians believe eating meat is cruel, nor have that as the or a reason they don't eat meat. Some do they because many of the practices involved with mass producing meat for consumers is cruel because its based on very outdated knowledge regarding animals and how intelligent and aware they are. Its a little bit like cigarettes, except that directly affects our health and enjoyment of life and so our society/culture shifted to accommodate new information/research. I myself eat meat, but many industries practices regrading food (and everything human related really) is barbaric and needlessly greedy. It can be improved, but since their wouldn't be any short term benefits and only long term benefits it probably won't. A lot of the animals like cows I believe we going extinct naturally before we started to use them, and then their populations exploded at the expense of other animals. A common enough joke (I think even Richard Dawkings has used it) but the best evolution trick for a species ever? Is to be tasty to humans, because those species over succeed and experience exponential growth. Thats not an inherently good or bad thing, but combined with humans all too common tendencies for laziness, greed and possession, like how those things affect other aspects of life on Earth (humans included) it can cause unforeseen problems for all.

Life does eat life true, but thats like justifying zombies practices by saying dead eat life when it really depends more than anything. Heh heh ^_^

No problem I usually agree with what you have to say anyway :)

Yeah I see.I think it is concerning when he is saying he did because his god supposedly told him so.I think it is concerning because what else could he end up doing? I also think that is a poor morality system right there too,which is one of the reasons I don't subscribe to it.

Oh I know that,I was just putting forward my point really.And the meat industries can be improved.I mean its got bad enough over here where we are at the stage that we don't even know what meat is going into our foods.

That's interesting and backs up what I was saying.I suppose it links in with the survival of the fittest idea,or in this case survival of the tastiest :)

lol No I was just saying since even vegetarians eat plants which is life.So we are living and we eat life

#45 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

We actually don't know what is the best/most natural diet for humans.

I have big problems with vegetarianism.I mean people say it is cruel to eat animals but it would be alot more cruel to just let animals become extinct would it not? We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them.

Life eats life.

Er.. by eating animals, you're not helping them survive.. how do the animals you eat stay alive? lol

And you still have uses for most of the animals, you get milk, and fine class wool.. and stuff..

Did you not read my post properly?

I will re post the part you forgot to read/acknowledge.

"We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them."

I respect a persons right to be a vegetarian that's fine with me but when people use the cruelty argument I have to point that factor out.

One of the reasons animals like tigers are endangered is because we don't breed then continuously really because we don't eat them animals such as cows,chickens,sheep etc will not go extinct as long as we carry on eating them.

I may have missed your point, sorry.

Yet the logic seems a bit odd to me. We breed the cattle, and we eat them. It's true that we increase their numbers by specially breeding them, but then we eat them and decrease it again. It's like adding five dollars to a bag and taking it back. Nearly no contribution. Also, not like they are not able to survive on their own, there are millions of species useless to humans out there. We're helping them preserve their species does not justify our eating them in any manner.

All that aside, if some advanced aliens come and try to eat you, and say that you being food for us is good for your race, will you comply? It will still be cruel to the given individual, right?

#46 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

We actually don't know what is the best/most natural diet for humans.

I have big problems with vegetarianism.I mean people say it is cruel to eat animals but it would be alot more cruel to just let animals become extinct would it not? We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them.

Life eats life.

Er.. by eating animals, you're not helping them survive.. how do the animals you eat stay alive? lol

And you still have uses for most of the animals, you get milk, and fine class wool.. and stuff..

Did you not read my post properly?

I will re post the part you forgot to read/acknowledge.

"We breed cattle and animals we eat and they stay alive and don't become extinct because we have a use for them."

I respect a persons right to be a vegetarian that's fine with me but when people use the cruelty argument I have to point that factor out.

One of the reasons animals like tigers are endangered is because we don't breed then continuously really because we don't eat them animals such as cows,chickens,sheep etc will not go extinct as long as we carry on eating them.

I may have missed your point, sorry.

Yet the logic seems a bit odd to me. We breed the cattle, and we eat them. It's true that we increase their numbers by specially breeding them, but then we eat them and decrease it again. It's like adding five dollars to a bag and taking it back. Nearly no contribution. Also, not like they are not able to survive on their own, there are millions of species useless to humans out there. We're helping them preserve their species does not justify our eating them in any manner.

All that aside, if some advanced aliens come and try to eat you, and say that you being food for us is good for your race, will you comply? It will still be cruel to the given individual, right?

Not to butt in guys, but did you know that out of 7 Billion human beings, there are only 1 Billion cattle?

#47 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

I may have missed your point, sorry.

Yet the logic seems a bit odd to me. We breed the cattle, and we eat them. It's true that we increase their numbers by specially breeding them, but then we eat them and decrease it again. It's like adding five dollars to a bag and taking it back. Nearly no contribution. Also, not like they are not able to survive on their own, there are millions of species useless to humans out there. We're helping them preserve their species does not justify our eating them in any manner.

All that aside, if some advanced aliens come and try to eat you, and say that you being food for us is good for your race, will you comply? It will still be cruel to the given individual, right?

Not to butt in guys, but did you know that out of 7 Billion human beings, there are only 1 Billion cattle?

No problem, jump in any time, not like we're in a duel or something, just discussing lightly :)

I didn't know about the number of cattles, but what are you pointing out?

#48 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Magethor said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

I may have missed your point, sorry.

Yet the logic seems a bit odd to me. We breed the cattle, and we eat them. It's true that we increase their numbers by specially breeding them, but then we eat them and decrease it again. It's like adding five dollars to a bag and taking it back. Nearly no contribution. Also, not like they are not able to survive on their own, there are millions of species useless to humans out there. We're helping them preserve their species does not justify our eating them in any manner.

All that aside, if some advanced aliens come and try to eat you, and say that you being food for us is good for your race, will you comply? It will still be cruel to the given individual, right?

Not to butt in guys, but did you know that out of 7 Billion human beings, there are only 1 Billion cattle?

No problem, jump in any time, not like we're in a duel or something, just discussing lightly :)

I didn't know about the number of cattles, but what are you pointing out?

Well I over read some of the stuff you guys were talking about about eating cattle and then breeding them... But, I jumped in because the breeding rate of these cattle is much slower than some observers think. When a calf is born, for example, it is not ready to eat yet... The breeders would have to wait until the cow is fully developed and this takes some time by the years. But, because of that, we are only able to maintain 1 Billion of them world wide. Notice I said cattle though. That doesn't include the entire livestock. But even all the livestock doesn't equal nearly to 7 Billion. (Not unless you count chickens). I guess the point here is that if all the humans in the Earth decided to eat one cow in a single day, all cows would not exist any more, and that's a scary thought.

#49 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Magethor said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

I may have missed your point, sorry.

Yet the logic seems a bit odd to me. We breed the cattle, and we eat them. It's true that we increase their numbers by specially breeding them, but then we eat them and decrease it again. It's like adding five dollars to a bag and taking it back. Nearly no contribution. Also, not like they are not able to survive on their own, there are millions of species useless to humans out there. We're helping them preserve their species does not justify our eating them in any manner.

All that aside, if some advanced aliens come and try to eat you, and say that you being food for us is good for your race, will you comply? It will still be cruel to the given individual, right?

Not to butt in guys, but did you know that out of 7 Billion human beings, there are only 1 Billion cattle?

No problem, jump in any time, not like we're in a duel or something, just discussing lightly :)

I didn't know about the number of cattles, but what are you pointing out?

Well I over read some of the stuff you guys were talking about about eating cattle and then breeding them... But, I jumped in because the breeding rate of these cattle is much slower than some observers think. When a calf is born, for example, it is not ready to eat yet... The breeders would have to wait until the cow is fully developed and this takes some time by the years. But, because of that, we are only able to maintain 1 Billion of them world wide. Notice I said cattle though. That doesn't include the entire livestock. But even all the livestock doesn't equal nearly to 7 Billion. (Not unless you count chickens). I guess the point here is that if all the humans in the Earth decided to eat one cow in a single day, all cows would not exist any more, and that's a scary thought.

Wow interesting statistics.

#50 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14212 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

No problem, jump in any time, not like we're in a duel or something, just discussing lightly :)

I didn't know about the number of cattles, but what are you pointing out?

Well I over read some of the stuff you guys were talking about about eating cattle and then breeding them... But, I jumped in because the breeding rate of these cattle is much slower than some observers think. When a calf is born, for example, it is not ready to eat yet... The breeders would have to wait until the cow is fully developed and this takes some time by the years. But, because of that, we are only able to maintain 1 Billion of them world wide. Notice I said cattle though. That doesn't include the entire livestock. But even all the livestock doesn't equal nearly to 7 Billion. (Not unless you count chickens). I guess the point here is that if all the humans in the Earth decided to eat one cow in a single day, all cows would not exist any more, and that's a scary thought.

Hmm. Ok.