#1 Edited by joewell (6336 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never really seen myself as a good debater in the battle forums and i would like to change that. So if you have any tips in general for people in the battle forums or for specifically me please share.

Thanks!

#2 Edited by russellmania77 (15042 posts) - - Show Bio

know wat ur talking about n also have proof just in case you get called out on ur statements

#3 Edited by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

Walls of text with a lot of scans.

No one will read it, but, everyone will agree with you.

#4 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

Walls of text with a lot of scans.

No one will read it, but, everyone will agree with you.

#5 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (14596 posts) - - Show Bio

Walls of text with a lot of scans.

No one will read it, but, everyone will agree with you.

#6 Posted by Lunacyde (18731 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkknightdetective: That's not necessarily true. I have seen plenty of debates where there are walls of text and people call out the person as being wrong, or debate them.

#7 Edited by joewell (6336 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by SC (12983 posts) - - Show Bio

If your going to be certain about anything, be certain about uncertainty. If you can't demonstrate knowledge you probably don't actually have knowledge, if you don't have knowledge, you probably shouldn't assert anything that sounds or paints the idea that you do have knowledge. Its better to honestly admit ignorance and try to learn what others may know than to pretend to know and act defensively when questioned. Knowledge is broad and can be relative, meaning that how you apply it can be questioned, or additional context may be shed, so when you apply it, make sure you have good reasons and also question your own knowledge. Along this line when others apply knowledge be aware that you can question them and that they may have good reasons as far as their application. The better job you do at questioning your arguments or falsifying them before you apply them, the easier it is to counter others questioning and the better the reasons you have behind your arguments and knowledge the more explanatory power you possess when you eventually have to assert why your argument and reasoning is superior to the other peoples assertions and arguments.

Battles isn't the be all or end all of debating. In the grand scheme of things its Greg Land. Knowing a bit about science, philosophy, politics, religion, history and the arguments and debates each have and have had will let you spot fallacious arguments faster and help you refrain from instinctively throwing out personal opinions that don't really actually reflect how you think about things. Do you want to debate to apologize for your favorite characters or undermine characters that upset you, or do you want to objectively ration and speculate about fictional entities and the creative forces that govern them?

A lot of people are overly emotional, and the people who aren't overly emotional? Actually they are overly emotional too, because overly emotional people often don't realize they are overly emotional, they often consider themselves very reasonable and rational, but what they consider and what they are don't always line up and thats pretty much true of all people and there perceptions in a broad sense. A lot of people that you are going to debate with are probably going to make a lot of claims and assertions that they just feel are right and correct and common sense, but they won't actually have any good reasonable basis or knowledge for their claims. In this sense you could end up being a good debater by watching the people debating you implode with fallacious arguments but you also don't want to fall into that group yourself. Also there isn't anything inherently wrong with being overly emotional, but it means when you question people they can - well they will get defensive and they can attack you, and they can project in on to you as well and start making claims about you with phrases that try to make them sound really reasonable, oh and passive aggressiveness as well if you wound their ego. Really ultimately the best way to be here is to be patient. Sincerely patient too mind you heh heh. Battles should be fun, for all people, and sometimes apologizing to an upset person is the fastest way for them to realize you are only there to have fun too, not judge or offend them like they may have mistakenly presumed.

I was being pretty broad there but hope helps and have fun in Battles and Debating in general!

Moderator
#9 Edited by Lunacyde (18731 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell

# 1. THE most important thing to being a good/great debater is knowing your limits. Know how well you know the characters and don't enter battles where you don't have a good knowledge of BOTH characters. If you only know one side of the fight you will end up making claims you may not be able to back up.

#2. Read a lot of comics. This is the best way to expand your knowledge. It is also acceptable to research characters from other sources, but getting the info straight from the source gives you the whole picture. Have scans if possible. it is ok to get such scans from a respect thread, but you better damn well know the situation the feat was used in and the circumstances that surround it.

#3. Respect the other debater. Being arrogant will get you nowhere. Put forward your argument to the best of your ability, but don't stoop to insults or complaining about the opposing side. If you have been bested acknowledge it and move on.

#4. Know what PIS/CIS is and do not use obvious examples of these concepts as a serious debate tool. Never use feats that are heavily dependent on special circumstances. Feats you use should be backed up and fall in line with the general abilities of that character throughout their canon. Don't try and use non-canon stories to prove your point.

#10 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20174 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

If your going to be certain about anything, be certain about uncertainty. If you can't demonstrate knowledge you probably don't actually have knowledge, if you don't have knowledge, you probably shouldn't assert anything that sounds or paints the idea that you do have knowledge. Its better to honestly admit ignorance and try to learn what others may know than to pretend to know and act defensively when questioned. Knowledge is broad and can be relative, meaning that how you apply it can be questioned, or additional context may be shed, so when you apply it, make sure you have good reasons and also question your own knowledge. Along this line when others apply knowledge be aware that you can question them and that they may have good reasons as far as their application. The better job you do at questioning your arguments or falsifying them before you apply them, the easier it is to counter others questioning and the better the reasons you have behind your arguments and knowledge the more explanatory power you possess when you eventually have to assert why your argument and reasoning is superior to the other peoples assertions and arguments.

Battles isn't the be all or end all of debating. In the grand scheme of things its Greg Land. Knowing a bit about science, philosophy, politics, religion, history and the arguments and debates each have and have had will let you spot fallacious arguments faster and help you refrain from instinctively throwing out personal opinions that don't really actually reflect how you think about things. Do you want to debate to apologize for your favorite characters or undermine characters that upset you, or do you want to objectively ration and speculate about fictional entities and the creative forces that govern them?

A lot of people are overly emotional, and the people who aren't overly emotional? Actually they are overly emotional too, because overly emotional people often don't realize they are overly emotional, they often consider themselves very reasonable and rational, but what they consider and what they are don't always line up and thats pretty much true of all people and there perceptions in a broad sense. A lot of people that you are going to debate with are probably going to make a lot of claims and assertions that they just feel are right and correct and common sense, but they won't actually have any good reasonable basis or knowledge for their claims. In this sense you could end up being a good debater by watching the people debating you implode with fallacious arguments but you also don't want to fall into that group yourself. Also there isn't anything inherently wrong with being overly emotional, but it means when you question people they can - well they will get defensive and they can attack you, and they can project in on to you as well and start making claims about you with phrases that try to make them sound really reasonable, oh and passive aggressiveness as well if you wound their ego. Really ultimately the best way to be here is to be patient. Sincerely patient too mind you heh heh. Battles should be fun, for all people, and sometimes apologizing to an upset person is the fastest way for them to realize you are only there to have fun too, not judge or offend them like they may have mistakenly presumed.

I was being pretty broad there but hope helps and have fun in Battles and Debating in general!

And this my friends, is the answer.

#11 Edited by Myrmidon_ (5080 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@sc said:

If your going to be certain about anything, be certain about uncertainty. If you can't demonstrate knowledge you probably don't actually have knowledge, if you don't have knowledge, you probably shouldn't assert anything that sounds or paints the idea that you do have knowledge. Its better to honestly admit ignorance and try to learn what others may know than to pretend to know and act defensively when questioned. Knowledge is broad and can be relative, meaning that how you apply it can be questioned, or additional context may be shed, so when you apply it, make sure you have good reasons and also question your own knowledge. Along this line when others apply knowledge be aware that you can question them and that they may have good reasons as far as their application. The better job you do at questioning your arguments or falsifying them before you apply them, the easier it is to counter others questioning and the better the reasons you have behind your arguments and knowledge the more explanatory power you possess when you eventually have to assert why your argument and reasoning is superior to the other peoples assertions and arguments.

Battles isn't the be all or end all of debating. In the grand scheme of things its Greg Land. Knowing a bit about science, philosophy, politics, religion, history and the arguments and debates each have and have had will let you spot fallacious arguments faster and help you refrain from instinctively throwing out personal opinions that don't really actually reflect how you think about things. Do you want to debate to apologize for your favorite characters or undermine characters that upset you, or do you want to objectively ration and speculate about fictional entities and the creative forces that govern them?

A lot of people are overly emotional, and the people who aren't overly emotional? Actually they are overly emotional too, because overly emotional people often don't realize they are overly emotional, they often consider themselves very reasonable and rational, but what they consider and what they are don't always line up and thats pretty much true of all people and there perceptions in a broad sense. A lot of people that you are going to debate with are probably going to make a lot of claims and assertions that they just feel are right and correct and common sense, but they won't actually have any good reasonable basis or knowledge for their claims. In this sense you could end up being a good debater by watching the people debating you implode with fallacious arguments but you also don't want to fall into that group yourself. Also there isn't anything inherently wrong with being overly emotional, but it means when you question people they can - well they will get defensive and they can attack you, and they can project in on to you as well and start making claims about you with phrases that try to make them sound really reasonable, oh and passive aggressiveness as well if you wound their ego. Really ultimately the best way to be here is to be patient. Sincerely patient too mind you heh heh. Battles should be fun, for all people, and sometimes apologizing to an upset person is the fastest way for them to realize you are only there to have fun too, not judge or offend them like they may have mistakenly presumed.

I was being pretty broad there but hope helps and have fun in Battles and Debating in general!

And this my friends, is the answer.

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

Walls of text , No one will read it, but, everyone will agree with you.

*walks away from trolling*

#12 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@joewell

# 1. THE most important thing to being a good/great debater is knowing your limits. Know how well you know the characters and don't enter battles where you don't have a good knowledge of BOTH characters. If you only know one side of the fight you will end up making claims you may not be able to back up.

#2. Read a lot of comics. This is the best way to expand your knowledge. It is also acceptable to research characters from other sources, but getting the info straight from the source gives you the whole picture. Have scans if possible. it is ok to get such scans from a respect thread, but you better damn well know the situation the feat was used in and the circumstances that surround it.

#3. Respect the other debater. Being arrogant will get you nowhere. Put forward your argument to the best of your ability, but don't stoop to insults or complaining about the opposing side. If you have been bested acknowledge it and move on.

#4. Know what PIS/CIS is and do not use obvious examples of these concepts as a serious debate tool. Never use feats that are heavily dependent on special circumstances. Feats you use should be backed up and fall in line with the general abilities of that character throughout their canon. Don't try and use non-canon stories to prove your point.

Pretty much this.

If I can add another one; it's to be chill when debating. Understand that this is a fun way to discuss and test your fan knowledge, as well as giving you the opportunity to practice your argumentative skills as well. But never let it get too personal, and don't get caught up in a debate.

#14 Posted by Myrmidon_ (5080 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10361 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#16 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't post in battles. ^_^

#17 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: Read a lot of stuff

comics, toons, games, manga/anime and novels

knowledge is power (others can't fool ya)

#18 Posted by k4tzm4n (41067 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Remove bias.
  • Do your research.
  • Elaborate.
  • Keep an open mind at all times.
Staff Online
#19 Edited by Mercy_ (92686 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't debate to 'win'. I see people go into debating with the mindset that it's something to win all the time and it's detrimental not only to your own experience, but to the overall quality of the board.

A debate should be about learning. You put forth your theories and debate for them with reason and proof and the other person does the same. And in the process, you hope to learn something new through the application.

Way too many people go into it with the mindset that it is something to be won and that they are undeniably correct. They then proceed to bash their 'opponent' over the head with the same (often out of context) scans. NO.

This is why it's always a pleasure to see people like Morph (when he was around), K4tz, GS and others. Because they go into it trying to teach you something, no win an argument.

I've seen people go into debates and take the side who will quite clearly use just for the fun of testing their own limits. This is something that Morph and G did a lot (and man, if you ever get the chance, look up some of the old debates they had against each other, there was one in particular that was the EPITOME of what a battle board discussion should look like).

TL;DR: Don't try to WIN, try to LEARN.

Moderator
#20 Posted by Bruxae (13669 posts) - - Show Bio

Liking a character doesnt make him/her more powerful then someone you dont like.