#1 Edited by Pfcoolio14 (1138 posts) - - Show Bio

Well after the creation of the new appreciation thread, I looked into Trans women even though I didn't agree with it at first. But can I say that some of these girls/women turn out beautiful after the op.(PS I'm confused cause I don't know if that makes me gay or not) One of them was Kim Petras and I was just like wow. So I have a few questions that I'm gonna ask you.

Do you think that a Trans gender women has the responsibility of telling their potential partner/suitor of their medical history?

If you were in a long relationship with a trans person and figured out about the op later, what would be your thoughts and what would you do?

Would you continue dating them if this fact was established early on in the relationship? Even if you really liked them

Here are a couple

#2 Edited by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10130 posts) - - Show Bio

1. It may be rough, but it must come out.

2. Nothing,Love: it's not in the pants, it's in the heart

#3 Posted by Juiceboks (10839 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Vital information like that should be established before things get serious.

2. I personally would break up with her/him. Not just because I don't personally agree with dating a trans woman, but I also absolutely hate being lied to.

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#5 Posted by Dabee (2399 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean, from my understanding, here's how I see it:

If somebody is going through an operation to become a woman, they are in every way a woman. They already were in their minds, but just not body. I don't really see them as ever having been a man, as much as they just had a man's anatomy. I would understand if they didn't tell people right away, because that kind of thing is pretty private. Any surgical procedure, especially one of that nature, is obviously going to be personal.

I really can't say how I'd react until in that situation, so that's really hard for me to say. I wouldn't mind that she didn't tell me, because again, it's something very personal that is understandably not something you're just going to tell someone immediately. It would be like going around telling people, "Hey, I have a urinary tract infection and/or irritable bowel syndrome, let's go out!" Except those two I guess are different, but the privacy-factor still seems just as prevalent. Basically, the person is in every way a woman, so I don't see the point in them sharing that their body used to appear incorrectly to everyone.

#6 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26967 posts) - - Show Bio

1. It may be rough, but it must come out.

2. Nothing,Love: it's not in the pants, it's in the heart

This.

#7 Posted by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (11151 posts) - - Show Bio

1. I guess, though it shouldn't matter if the person actually loves them..

2. Lol, why would I? Like all of a sudden the heavens are going to fall down just because it was brought to light lol

#8 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Definitely.

2. End it in a heart beat.

#9 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (18733 posts) - - Show Bio

Perhaps but its how they feel about that.

Hmm well Id confront them about it or Id tell them I know. But nothing would change really since they are a woman and always have being as in terms of emotionally and mentally and if the relationship we had was there and I loved them then Id stay with them,nothing would change in that regard. They always were a woman.

Just going to edit this and say I am torn on the subject to be honest. I feel the way in the above paragraph. But then I also feel that maybe I would be angry and maybe I would break up with them.

So I think maybe I could feel either way and am not sure how I feel about the situation because I have never experienced it.

yah...

#10 Edited by XImpossibruX (5263 posts) - - Show Bio

1. YES, a relationship is built on trust. If you keep secret that you are a transgender, then you are essentially lieing to your partner. It may be hard, but it's good to be honest and tell them.

2. NO! I wouldn't date a transgender, but that's just me.

#11 Posted by Bruxae (14008 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Post OP I feel like any trans should be allowed to be treated as their current gender, they probably went through hell and back to get to the point they are at and shouldnt have to constantly carry around the baggage of what -once- were and no longer is. So no I dont think they should have to tell anyone unless they want to BUT neither do I think any person should be seriously dating someone they dont feel comfortable sharing things like this with, so any potential marriage or longterm partner should probably be told at some point early on. Pre-OP is a different story, asmuch as I feel like they have the same rights - not many people would take kindly to "unexpected" downstairs plumbing.

2. It depends alot on how and when I am told, like most people I hate being lied to and would be hurt and probably angry that I wasnt told earlier, but if the person obviously have issues sharing because its hurt them in the past or something similar to that it would be hard not to forgive.

3. If I really liked someone gender would never stop me from dating someone, it would feel wierd but I wont hide in a closet, im to openminded for that.

#12 Posted by God_Spawn (38381 posts) - - Show Bio

1. It has to be told.

2. I would never date one.

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#13 Edited by GunGunW (1006 posts) - - Show Bio

1. It has to be told.

2. I would never date one.

#14 Posted by BR_Havoc (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

1. All good relationships start with honesty to establish trust so it must be told.

2. I never thought about it but if I liked her sure love is something more then just gender. I will admit it would be hard not knowing you could not have children unless you adopt.

#15 Posted by The Stegman (26078 posts) - - Show Bio

1. It has to be told.

2. I would never date one.

This is my answer too.

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#16 Posted by Extremis (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

It doesn't bother me at all. I like transgender women :)

I do think it is a girl's responsibility to be honest about who they are to their partner, just as the partner should be to her. Before things get too serious, especially physically, as the guy has a right to know the truth. I myself wouldnt care, if you love/like someone who cares? Though it shouldn't matter, to some guys it would and its always important to be honest. Remember, a trans woman is still a woman, just biologiclly born male. For some that last detail is a big difference, the rest of us are far more open minded and understanding to that. No matter how you slice it though, a girl really should explain this before things get too far. Besides that, it's ultimately up to the girl when that happens.

#17 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13691 posts) - - Show Bio
If she looked like this than hell yes

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#18 Edited by Joygirl (19955 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes I would, but my opinion does not count, especially since I would date a pre-op transgirl as well.

As for how it "should be told"... it should, before things go too far, but there has to be temperance and understanding involved too. It is a tough confession, especially if you really like the person you are with.

#19 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13691 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Yes I would, but my opinion does not count, especially since I would date a pre-op transgirl as well.

As for how it "should be told"... it should, before things go too far, but there has to be temperance and understanding involved too. It is a tough confession, especially if you really like the person you are with.

seconded

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#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: How would you feel about it if you found out after you had sex with her tho?

#21 Edited by XImpossibruX (5263 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@awesam: How would you feel about it if you found out after you had sex with her tho?

I would roll over and just..... lie there, dieing inside.

#22 Posted by Extremis (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: exactly my feeling

If a girl is comfortable in doing it and thinks it feels right then definitely. But it's a tough thing for a girl to confess (fear the guy/girl won't understand, fear of anger from the partner, even violence).

If only everyone could be more accepting.. :/

#23 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: As far as everyone's concerned, I screwed a hot chick. As for myself... denial.

#24 Posted by Joygirl (19955 posts) - - Show Bio

I like these threads, they let me know who I should and shouldn't follow.

#25 Edited by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: Why? Its not like its gay sex or incest. Basically its a guaranteed method of sex without risk of accidental pregnancy and with modern advances in surgery its pretty much the exact same parts as someone born female. Its really not all that much different from having sex with someone whose had plastic surgery, it doesn't change who the person actually is.

#26 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Edited by XImpossibruX (5263 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I'm not even going to go on a tangent with that one, so i'm just answering with:

Transgenders aren't my preference, I would not want to have sex with one, and the person should of told me before instead of willful negligence.


#28 Posted by Bluff_ (283 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

1. Post OP I feel like any trans should be allowed to be treated as their current gender, they probably went through hell and back to get to the point they are at and shouldnt have to constantly carry around the baggage of what -once- were and no longer is. So no I dont think they should have to tell anyone unless they want to BUT neither do I think any person should be seriously dating someone they dont feel comfortable sharing things like this with, so any potential marriage or longterm partner should probably be told at some point early on. Pre-OP is a different story, asmuch as I feel like they have the same rights - not many people would take kindly to "unexpected" downstairs plumbing.

2. It depends alot on how and when I am told, like most people I hate being lied to and would be hurt and probably angry that I wasnt told earlier, but if the person obviously have issues sharing because its hurt them in the past or something similar to that it would be hard not to forgive.

3. If I really liked someone gender would never stop me from dating someone, it would feel wierd but I wont hide in a closet, im to openminded for that.

Basically this in a nutshell. I would personally feel betrayed but only because I hadn't been told the truth (not the same as lying) , but at the end of the day a person's anatomy doesn't define who they are or were. I'm not saying I have no boundaries but if you were attracted to a trans woman from head to toe what exactly would stop you from continuing that feeling of love or attraction? I feel like society is the only straight answer here and if you truly loved someone what people think about you shouldn't matter.

#29 Edited by The Stegman (26078 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like these types of threads are always against people who are against the topic. If you say you don't support transgendered lifestyle you are ''close minded' which is ironic since those who say you are closed minded are being close minded to your close mindedness.

Anyway, I am ususally hushed up on the topic but my opinion is this. If you feel like you are trapped in the wrong body, and would feel better with a sex change, I say go for it, it's your body and I have no say in what you should do with it. However, I personally wouldn't date a transgendered person, to me, that person is still a man (or vice versa if it's the other way around) just with a sex change operation. It's like in that South Park episode when Mr. Garrison became "Mrs. Garrison" then Kyle felt like he was a black kid trapped in a white body so he changed his skin pigmentation to be black, no Kyle, you're still white, you just got a surgery.

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#30 Posted by joshmightbe (24764 posts) - - Show Bio

@ximpossibrux: I agree it should be brought up before hand I'm just saying what's the point of being upset after the fact? Its not like you can undo it and it doesn't really hurt you. I can understand if you didn't continue a relationship but its not worth freaking out about something you can't do anything about.

#31 Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow (1405 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no problem with Trans gender or really anything except..... idk dating I guess sure whatever. Kim Petras is really hot though no lie.

#32 Edited by Deadite (25385 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing I think people are probably missing is, they probably followed the same moral guidelines all the time. They told the person they were dating, on the second or third date that they're transgendered. And they keep these dates in the form of light lunch, short coffee break, just so the person they're dating wouldn't be too invested in time and expense before they know what's going on. But long enough so they can learn more about each other before the information comes in.

Even though probably nothing bad would happen when he/she told the suitor, I have no idea, but I'm imagining it happens a lot, just because how delicate the situation is. It's logical to assume maybe violence can and had occurred to them during those situation in the past when they told the truth.

Assuming nothing terrible had happened, they probably get rejected a lot after the disclosure.

I haven't thought about how this other group's lives looks like for a while. This gives the opportunity to ponder on more things related to them, I guess.

#33 Posted by umbrafeline (5217 posts) - - Show Bio

If she looked like this than hell yes

she looks a bit underage to me, but I have no qualms dating a trans-female pre or post-op. I just have 3 rules 1] be over 21 years of age and b] must be feminine-looking trois] must be a B-cup or higher [i need something to suck on besides their wieners =P

#34 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18813 posts) - - Show Bio

1. they should tell, it'll come out eventually so why not just say it yourself right? though i can understand why the won't.

2. no.

#35 Posted by The_Tree (7984 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. Yes, especially if they plan on making it a serious relationship.
  2. I'd probably be initially shocked, but if I really liked them, I'd end up sticking with it.
  3. Yes, if I liked them and found them attractive enough.

But along with situations/questions two and three and their revelations, I'd also have to establish my want for kids in the future (No adoption, unless I turned out to be sterile.) and how that could have quite an effect on the outcome of the relationship.

#36 Posted by JediXMan (31317 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Yes. It's very important information.

2. No. She lied. That's a big negative for me.

3. No. Not my cup of tea.

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#37 Posted by Dabee (2399 posts) - - Show Bio

What I think is kind of strange is that you're just posting pictures of women who are basically models as a justification. I really don't think it should be about, "sure you're a trangenders, but you look great!" That's a pretty objectifying approach to it all.

Now, what if it was a person who was born with the same physical anatomy that they felt they had? (Such as a woman who was born a woman.) Are you saying you have to find them extremely attractive, or else they can hit the road? Let's remember, all people by definition ARE... well, people. That's why we call them people: because they are people. If they weren't people, we wouldn't call them people. I'm digressing, let's move on.

If you are saying that a transgender would have to appear extremely attractive to you, or else you ignore her, that's knocking them down to a sub-human level in a sense. Now maybe some of you ARE only into super-attractive model-esque women in any case, in which case I would inform you that you may want to change. However, I doubt this is the case, and feel that the whole "they have to be attractive" thing only applies to transgenders. It just seems very much like you're objectifying them just because they're different. I'm not talking to anyone in particular, but if you said something along the lines of "BUT THEY HAVE TO B HOT N STUFF," then you know I'm talking to you.

But can I say that some of these girls/women turn out beautiful after the op.(PS I'm confused cause I don't know if that makes me gay or not) One of them was Kim Petras and I was just like wow.

That's an example of what I mean. We also have to stop assuming that everything for transgenders is easy and that they WANT to screw you over. (No pun intended, okay maybe a little bit. Actually, intended. Definitely intended.) I can assure you that if a transgender you are dating hasn't told you yet, it's no with malicious intent. They aren't thinking, 'HA! I'm really getting him/her!' It's not easy for them to tell you either, I would assume. I really am not a huge authority on the topic, but it seems a WHOLE LOT like a lot of posters are forgetting that the transgenders are just as much people as all of us. I felt the need to stress that. And one more thing:

@joygirl said:

I like these threads, they let me know who I should and shouldn't follow.

I just realized that you're following me... does that mean I'm on the good side? Or do you just follow certain people to see what mindless nonsense they come up next for a laugh? (Again, nobody in particular, don't mean to call anyone out.) But I hope that's not me... lol

#38 Posted by SC (13401 posts) - - Show Bio

Responsibility is a bit subjective, but as with any romantic/sexual interactions there are various points where various points of information should be shared. Its not limited to transgender people, and everyone usually holds back when trying to woo a potential life partner, midnight hook up. I usually wait for the fifth date before I tell the person I am seeing I was raised by Sea Bears for example, and it freaks them out at first - they ask if I am part Sea Bear too, then I show them my tail and Sea Bear Badge. Personally I wouldn't care about being told, I prefer people being comfortable sharing when they feel its right. Unless they were a Land Shark. Then they have to tell me, Land Shark's are my natural enemy.

My thoughts would be wondering if pre op they had a bigger Adam's Apple than me. Nah I wouldn't care to be honest and what would I do? I'd probably read a comic and drink a caramel smoothie.

If I was dating them already, then sure I'd continue. Why not? Then again if they told me liked Greg Land's art or Brian Michael Bendis writing... I'd point to the door and start crying.

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#39 Edited by Wardemon32 (4635 posts) - - Show Bio

I would break up with him then I'd beat his ass.....

They should have told me from the start.

#40 Posted by ShadowX (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

@dabee: thanks you seem to get it pretty well. Also yes most of us dont tell because we fear others maliscious intent because historically and stastically trans woman have the most violence done towards us, especially trans woman of color.

Also people do you demand everybody else to tell you the status of their medical history and genitelia on the first date? no because that would be rude.

As a trans woman who is a lesbian i dont mind dating a trans woman. If i end up dating a woman who is post op and never told me. i wouldnt care its her business I'll be happy she shared it with me when she felt comfortable.

#41 Edited by Dabee (2399 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadowx said:

@dabee: thanks you seem to get it pretty well. Also yes most of us dont tell because we fear others maliscious intent because historically and stastically trans woman have the most violence done towards us, especially trans woman of color.

Also people do you demand everybody else to tell you the status of their medical history and genitelia on the first date? no because that would be rude.

As a trans woman who is a lesbian i dont mind dating a trans woman. If i end up dating a woman who is post op and never told me. i wouldnt care its her business I'll be happy she shared it with me when she felt comfortable.

Thanks for responding, I'm glad that what I said does hold true! But before we go on, I want a list of all pills/eye drops/shots, pretty much whatever drugs you take, will take, or have ever taken. I also want you to send me a liter of your blood for analysis, followed by x-rays. Before you respond, I just think it's fair that I have all of these things.

See how weird that was? Someone's entire medical background is private. Please don't send me blood.

#42 Posted by Pfcoolio14 (1138 posts) - - Show Bio

@dabee:

Im heterosexual and the fact that I know she was a male beforehand means she has to be really attractive for me to overlook that fact. Its not that Im objectifying but, being straight, Id rather date someone who was biologically born female. And honestly, if they arent really hot than they can hit the road because any trace of male is a no. Thats just a preference.

But honestly, this is all just speculation on my part because Ive never been really put into that situation. Quite literally like a couple of other people said Id probably vomit and tell them to leave because thats not my cup of tea.

#43 Posted by ShadowX (1207 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by KnightRise (4762 posts) - - Show Bio

I just couldn't deal with it. She could be beautiful and totally fullfill my emotional and intimate needs but the second I find out she is biologically male, I'd instantly lose all physical attraction. She'd become a man in my eyes.

I understand why trans people would be wary to immediate reveal their history. I'm sure a lot of men would lean toward violence once he's found out he's been spending his money and being physical with a man. Thats just not fair (the harming her part, I mean). But I do believe that its a trans person's responsibilty to discuss her biological history with a potential partner, because thats not fair to the hypothetical guy, either. I know what people may think of that statement, that a transwoman should have to reveal her secret while I on the other hand will freely imbelish my high school hockey career, as hypocritical. For a long term relationship, its a must. I would never lie to a person I plan to become intimate with about something that would make her not want to be with me. Again, thats not fair to either of us. I would expect her to tell me she was born a male and let me make my own decision, rather than lie to me or hide it.

Hit it and quit it, in constast? Go for it, trans bro. It'd be his fault for not noticing, and my ladydate's fault for believing that I scored eight goals in game 5 and saved the junoir league from a greedy businessman.....

*pantomimes high five to trans girl*

#45 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

Women?

Women are born, not created in a hospital. ;)

These are men with implants and mutilated wieners.

#46 Posted by Pfcoolio14 (1138 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by Extremis (3363 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: there's no such thing as being 'close minded to someone's close mindedness'. You're either close minded or you're open minded, simple as that. If people don't like someone's close mindedness it is just that. You wouldn't say someone is openminded to someone's openmindedness. What you said is just an example of nonsensical, circular logic used in a feeble attempt to call open minded people close minded.

Also this doesn't, whatsoever, relate to South Park as we are talking about real people. I actually like the show, but its inappropriate for you to bring that up as an example as if to illustrate some greater point or as if it has any true bearing in real life. We're talking about real people here.

#48 Posted by Aiden Cross (15526 posts) - - Show Bio

I do feel she should tell me at the beginning of the relationship, when i have full trust and respect for my partner and after that she tells me i would find it more difficult to understand. Not because she's transsexual because i couldn't care less if i truly loved her. But because she felt she couldn't trust or tell me. Though i'd understand why she didn't tell me and be supportive of her, i'd still feel we lost a piece of mutual trust. So i think she should tell before things get serious.

#49 Edited by akbogert (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the reason this is so sensitive is because a lot of it actually boils down to how willing folks are to actually accept the concept of transgender. The only reason you would feel lied to and/or want the issue to be brought up is if you view a trans*female, say, as different in some way from a cis*female. And I think there are definitely people who will never be able to view them as entirely the same; there are people who will still think of a trans*female as still being male because they were born genetically as a male, and if those people are straight males, that immediately kills the attraction.

So like I said, it becomes sensitive. At the end of the day when I have to answer why I wouldn't date a trans woman, the only real answer that makes sense is that deep down, at least some part of me, however small, doesn't actually see her as being a "real" woman. Which means that despite how hard I endeavor to act otherwise, there is still something in me that rejects the concept of transgender. And that is not me trying to cast a judgment, that's simply me looking within myself, analyzing my feelings and motivations, and being unable to come up with an alternative explanation. If I really considered her a woman, there'd be no reason for me, as a straight guy, to object to dating her; so I must not consider her one, even if I think I do or want to be able to.

That provides a quandary. A trans*female does not consider herself male in any way. She's not hiding anything or being dishonest because she's a female. She just is. For her to bring it up, in a way, undermines the validity of her identity because it forces her to cater to the views of people who reject that she actually is a female. Saying "I'm trans" is something along the lines of saying "I'm a woman, but not everyone would actually agree with that." It weakens the stance. She does not identify as trans. She identifies as a female. At least, this has been my understanding. Asking her to tell you what kind of female, or how long she's officially been female, diminishes her claim to femininity.

At the same time, her partner, if he or she rejects (like I said, even if it's just on an instinctual, intractable level that can't really be helped) the notion that a trans*female is the same as a cis*female, then he or she will want to know that prior to making a decision to become romantically involved. So you have a situation where the trans person does not even feel like they are saying or doing anything irregular, but the other person may perceive it as deception (not necessarily malicious -- sure, caution, fear, doubt, etc. may and often are very real motivators for not being upfront about it). Ultimately, however, I think a successful relationship will require that the partner be the sort for whom the difference is either not acknowledged or is negligible, and knowing the partner's stance does require the subject being brought up eventually. I'm of the mindset that sooner rather than later is better, if only because any factor in a relationship which someone knows is likely to make or break that relationship should probably be introduced early on. As someone said earlier, relationships are founded on trust, and a thing which some people may consider a breach of trust if withheld is, fair or not, probably better not withheld for long.

#50 Posted by Aiden Cross (15526 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: i think you're leaving out a big part in your equation, children. What if you want your own children and not adopt? It can play a huge part in if you want to pursue a relationship or not. Not for me personally, but it's something that's overlooked :)