The Official LGBTQ thread 2.0

Given the copious amount of LGBTQ threads that have been popping on the forums as of late - I decided just to make this one thread, and one thread only, to discuss such matters instead of spamming the forums with the same crap, with a fresh coat of paint.

In this thread various amount of topics that deal with the aftersaid subject can be discussed, ranging from gay rights and marriage, to the that "is homosexuality natural?" bit.

Note: I deleted, the last one by accident, when I was trying to edit out a typo in the OP.

Interesting

Indeed! :-D

Damn you, TC =P

I wrote a lot of stuff in your previous topic.

Change the flag to something cooler, that is all.

I'll just copy and paste what I put in the other locked thread. Op questioned a couple of my stances. And I can't tag the op from the thread, but if he decides to come in this thread then here it is:

The key word is "may". The gay parents thing with most of the country's acceptance has just started and is really only in it's infancy. If anything one could say this is all like a social experiment. We don't know what the outcome will be in say 50-100 years from now.

I don't understand your reasoning for why gay parents would be better. Saying mistakes aren't possible for gay parents is a little out there. Mistakes are possible for everyone. How do you know heterosexual couples don't "go through a deliberate and thoughtful process to have children"? So what if a heterosexual couple can easily have another child or get pregnant? Are you saying pregnancies that aren't planned are bad?

My grandma had 7 kids and I'm sure most of them were accidental. My mom had me when she was 17, I sure wasn't planned. But we were all loved and have become good people.

And I for one agree with Pope Francis.

Silkyballfro, first of all I did not say gay parents were better. My initial post was a copy and paste of an article I read, hence the link I posted at the very bottom.

Second, gay parenting is not a "social experiment." We know the outcomes of the kids who were raised by gay parents as this has been studied since the seventies, with the consensus among every reputable organization being that same-sex parenting is more or less the same as opposite-sex parenting.

Third, you say you agree with Pope Francis in his beliefs that children need a mom and a dad to grow up healthy? Please link me peer-reviewed studies in which reputable organizations denounce same-sex parenting and posit that children can only grow up healthy with a mom and a dad. Then we will talk.

Note: I deleted, the last one by accident, when I was trying to edit out a typo in the OP.

LOL, gg no re

What are thoughts about Putin making a "straight flag" in response to the gay marriage ruling here in the U.S.?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putins-united-russia-party-unveils-straight-flag-to-rival-gay-pride-symbol-10377440.html

My thoughts is that making a straight flag is just immature.

Straight people are not harassed, persecuted, executed, or ostracized for being straight.

@ace_of_spades90: so you have to be "harassed, persecuted, executed, or ostracized" to be able to have a flag?

Of course not. But this is coming from Russia. Need I say more?

@ace_of_spades90: The irony of having a wavy flag represent "straight"

ALL THE HOMOS.

@ace_of_spades90: Well then you probably should've done a better job with quotations, so people wouldn't think this was all from you.

I never said gay parenting was a social experiment. I said "if anything one could say this is all like a social experiment. We don't know what the outcome will be in say 50-100 years from now."

Gay people weren't accepted in the 70s as they are today. Today, the number of gay couples parenting will destroy the number that were studied in the 70s. This can be likened to being a social experiment because for the first time in human history gays are being accepted and encouraged on a massive scale to be themselves. Add this along with them adopting children or being parents and we just don't know what the results will be in say 50-100 years, good or bad. The point is that those studies in the 70s and since then took from a very very small number and those were different times.

Yeah I agree with Pope Francis. So what? To clarify I'm not against gay couples adopting kids or having surrogate babies. I only think that a child should have both a mom and dad, because they both bring something to the table. It is natural. But you won't see me protesting or picketing against this, because I don't care and people can do what they want.

No I will not post peer-reviewed studies. I don't need to. The only proof I need is evolution, plus this is all my opinion.

Point to be noted. A dick and Vagina is not important. At all. The primary reason the subject of children exists is not important at all. Instead, let two gay dudes raise a child.

@lowlaville:

Point to be noted. A dick and Vagina is not important. At all. The primary reason the subject of children exists is not important at all. Instead, let two gay dudes raise a child.

In regards to actually, raising and not making, yeah it isn't all that important.

Am I to believe subjective reasoning doesn't target gay dudes? Like can a child ever feel the comfort of a mother's embrace in the arm of a man? I do not believe that. Depending on how our society is, this gay dude's child is going to have one hell of a life.

I heard a rumor that the mods are rainbow flag burners, is that true???

This is a dumb argument. There are plenty of people who grow up without moms and turn out fine. Stop being a buzzkill.

@dccomicsrule2011: Mods can bring back deleted threads upon request if you didn't know.

Wait, really? O_o

@cable_extreme said:

Lol

Yes. I've asked them plenty of times and they've done it. Just provide a link to your thread and it'll be back.

Dude, please learn how to read before you respond. Me and the other guy were discussing raising children, not creating them.

I like girls.

Same. I think I'm in uncharted territory, good thing I brought my stealth suit.

@ace_of_spades90: I was actually going to say that I didn't even know whether a peer-reviewed study existed. I wasn't scared that there might not be one. I just don't care if there is a peer-based review or not. Why are you acting like a peer-based review is the ultimate answer in the universe to whether a child can only grow up healthy with a mom and dad? Like I said I don't care and just because there may or may not be one doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinion.

False according to you. I never said every man is going to be the dominant one and every woman is going to be submissive one. It's much more complex than a guy simply having a penis and a woman having a vagina. I think it's nature and that man and woman are biologically given traits needed to bring up a child. I mean you see it everywhere in nature and it's been like this since the beginning. Thousands upon thousands of years heterosexual couples successfully continuing the species and raising their offspring.

That's how I come up with my conclusion. What do you have a "peer-based review" conducted since the 70s? Again this is where someone could liken this to one giant social experiment.

I agree love, financial stability, and positive environments at factors that facilitate raising children. Gender roles are not always irrelevant.

Silkyballfro, you claim to "not care about the countless peer-reviewed studies." Why? Is it because years and years of rigorous research contradicts with what you posit?

What is this pivotal thing exclusive to heterosexual parents that only they can teach their children during the formative years that homosexual parents cannot? Enlighten me.

@ace_of_spades90: According to you those years and years of rigorous research do not contradict what I'm saying. You said those peer-reviewed studies "concluded that the children raised by same-sex parents are no worse and no better than opposite-sex parenting" back in post #29. What I'm arguing is that heterosexual/opposite-sex couples are needed, so mom and dad. I never once said that homosexual/same-sex couples are inferior to heterosexual couples in raising or parenting a child. So no, no contradiction here.

And I never said I claimed to "not care about the countless peer-reviewed studies." You just made that up. I said I didn't care about finding peer-based reviews that support my argument. I never said I didn't care for the ones you keep bringing up to support your argument. Oh and you never did provide links to these studies you keep talking about, even though you ask and ask me to find one for myself.

I don't now what the "pivotal thing" is. And it might be things. You think I'm a scientist or specialize in this field? I bet experts or people familiar with this field would have enough trouble telling you that, if they would even know such a thing. I'm just an average joe.

Though I bet it has something to do with the fact that one parent is male and the other is female. One thing I can think of is a male and female's instinct.

Your first paragraph doesn't makes any sense at all, bro. You keep saying that opposite sex parents are "needed" to raise families, after which you state that you don't believe same-sex parents are lacking something, that they are on par with opposite-sex parents. What???

You inquired for the studies? Knock yourself out: http://whatweknow.law.columbia.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-wellbeing-of-children-with-gay-or-lesbian-parents/

Lastly, you said "I don't now what the pivotal thing is. And it might be things. You think I'm a scientist or specialize in this field? I bet experts familiar with this field would have enough trouble telling you that, if they knew such a thing."

^The specialists DON'T have trouble telling us anything. They've studied this for decades. And the scientific consensus, for the millionth time, is that kids raised by gay parents fare just as well as kids raised by straight parents.

Both gay and straight parents do a good job of parenting. Is this really so difficult to comprehend?

@ace_of_spades90: And, I asked you to link me to the journal/article/report of these surveys.

What right does two gay dudes have that they can raise a child to start with. That's my question. I can read just fine. This trend goes against the very nature of living beings.

I've already stated many times that there have been countless research that has been done which consistently shows that gay parenting is no different from that of straight parenting. And I already posted a link above of the peer-reviewed studies.

Then again, you're clearly so far gone that there's no point in even attempting to have intelligent discourse with you.

Ah, the good ol' appeal to nature fallacy -- perfect for those with no real argument.

I think it's safe to say two of the people who came in here have demonstrated that they don't have any basis for their allegations nor do they know how to properly debate =/

All I can say is thank goodness small-mindedness is becoming less prevalent in our society.

I was listening to the Laura Jane Grace (Tom Gabel) from Against me! on the WTF podcast while I was at work today...... It's worth checking out.

I know right. he he he

You clearly have an issue with disagreements. I don't accept gay dudes. It doesn't make me small-minded. It only means this, I don't accept gay dudes, much less to raise a child. I don't need any intelligent survey to tell me otherwise. I'm a guy, and I don't fancy having my buttcrack exposed to another dick. Simple as that. Call that simple minded as you will.

As for debate on intelligent discourse, or whatever, I cannot be bothered unless I get to read these surveys myself. To what end are these "survey'' credible, and why do you think the basis of the surveys cannot be unbiased or even if they are, why do you think they matter to my presented opinion? This is my third time asking for a reference of the said surveys.

If you are not even able to do that, you can forget having an intellectual debate.

@lowlaville: So you agree that you have no argument? Other than 'I'm a homophobe'....

Yes, and I don't want to google just for the sake of disagreeing with this here.

small minded people still rule outside america so before you claim that last statement, make sure everyone regardless of their sexual orientation and race are actually treated equally.

Lowlaville, are you a troll? I already posted the links to the study above. I don't know why you keep claiming I didn't.

And why do you keep referring to peer reviewed studies as "surveys." They are not surveys.

Last, how are peer reviewed studies "biased?" They are passed around to hundreds of scientists of various backgrounds to ensure there is nothing faulty before the study is published.

Also, all I'm getting from you is "I hate gays for no reason! That's my reasoning for believing they shouldn't be parents despite the fact that countless studies have proved the opposite!!!!"

@ace_of_spades90: Agreed, both gay and straight parents do a good job of parenting. Though this is is the first time you bring up that belief. What's difficult to comprehend is you not reading my posts, twisting what I say and making things up out of nowhere. You have contradicted yourself many times and I've also had to correct you many times. I have responded to your every question and shared my thoughts on your every point, yet you completely ignored or chose to brush aside entire paragraphs in my posts.

I think it's safe to say it's you who has demonstrated that they don't have any basis for their allegations nor do you know how to properly debate. =/

You're the small-minded weak one. You decided to take cheap jabs at me and another user. At least you finally posted a link. Even though the overview admits the research was flawed: "While many of the sample sizes were small, and some studies lacked a control group". I had a feeling this debate was going to be pointless. It seems you have a problem with disagreement. I find this very childish going back and forth, especially now that this has broken down into insults. So I'll just stop here and be done with you and this topic.

If you feel the need to act more small-minded and weak, then please go ahead and post another passive-aggressive post. Bye buddy.

Silkyballfro94, I twisted your words? Did you or did you not state that opposite-sex parents have that special something that homosexual parents lack without providing any reasoning behind that statement?

Now you purport that the study is "flawed?" The only "flaw" it mentions is that out of the 74 studies, only the four studies that DISSENT from the consensus are flawed.

I may have stated that you can't debate, but I'm not going to apologize for that as that's exactly what you've shown: that you can't debate at all.

@ace_of_spades90: because you didn't tag me? O_O

I'll answer your questions after reading the "studies".