#1 Posted by Maya_Liafador (4629 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. football: Matt hasselback
  2. NCAA: USC!!!!!
  3. politics: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm IDK
  4. pop: Hannah Montana
  5. hip hop-  fat joe
  6. movies- Jennifer Lopez
#2 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio


  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
#3 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Football-Pacman Jones

2.NCAA-UCLA
3.Politics-Sarah Palin
4.Pop-Avril Levigne,Hillary Duff
5.Hip Hop-Easy E,Ice T,Run DMC,Lil Wayne,LL Cool J
6.Movies-Jim Carrey,Will Farrell,George Clooney
Moderator
#4 Posted by Glorious (1590 posts) - - Show Bio

woah

Lil Wayne is not overrated

#5 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
Kadaj said:
"woah

Lil Wayne is not overrated"
YES HE IS
#6 Posted by Light (9257 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"Kadaj said:
"woah

Lil Wayne is not overrated"
YES HE IS"
IN NO WAY IS HE OVERRATED, HE"S AS GOOD AS PEOPLE THINK OR SAY!
#7 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
Light said:
"King Saturn said:
"Kadaj said:
"woah

Lil Wayne is not overrated"
YES HE IS"
IN NO WAY IS HE OVERRATED, HE"S AS GOOD AS PEOPLE THINK OR SAY!"
Ha Ha Ha  !

I will take Jadakiss and Cassidy over Lil Wayne any day... Wayne is garbage compared to Cassidy and he aint sh!t compared to Jadakiss either
#8 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
Kadaj said:
"woah

Lil Wayne is not overrated"
He's not the best rapper alive.
Moderator
#9 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

Movies: Denzel

#10 Posted by The 502 Kid (3793 posts) - - Show Bio

NCAA: Duke Basketball

Yes i do hate Duke with a passion!!

#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"Movies: Denzel"
Denzel is the movie industry..the fact that he only has 1 Oscar disgusts me.
Moderator
#12 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

he's so one note

look at someone like angie who has played every character under the sun and then compare that to Denzel's roles...he looks overrated
#13 Edited by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"he's so one note
look at someone like angie who has played every character under the sun and then compare that to Denzel's roles...he looks overrated
"
Angie has played a whore alot....talk about one note...Ms.i'll show my boobs when it isn't necessary,
Moderator
#14 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"pixelized said:
"he's so one note
look at someone like angie who has played every character under the sun and then compare that to Denzel's roles...he looks overrated
"
Angie has played a whore alot....talk about one note...Ms.i'll show my boobs when it isn't necessary,"
PSH...She's been everything...what has Denzel been? the gangster-ish tough guy? boo
#15 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"Vance Astro said:
"pixelized said:
"he's so one note
look at someone like angie who has played every character under the sun and then compare that to Denzel's roles...he looks overrated
"
Angie has played a whore alot....talk about one note...Ms.i'll show my boobs when it isn't necessary,"
PSH...She's been everything...what has Denzel been? the gangster-ish tough guy? boo"
A Secret Agent
Malcolm X
A corrupt cop
A teacher
A truck driver
An activist
A Detective
A bodyguard
A father
A coach
A High ranking Naval Officer
A basketball player
A Boxer
A musician

I can go all day.
Moderator
#16 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

i meant that his.."swag" has been the same in all of them. he can put on a different hat but its like the personality doesn't change

#17 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"i meant that his.."swag" has been the same in all of them. he can put on a different hat but its like the personality doesn't change"
You might be just dwelling on Training Day and American Gangster.Watch Great Debaters,Malcolm X,or Mississippi Masala.Angie seems to be the same person in every movie I have ever seen her in except maybe one or two.Wanted,Mr & Ms. Smith,Tomb Raider,Original Sin,Cyborg 2...Same Angie.
Moderator
#18 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio

Movies - George Clooney  ( for some reason I really dont think he is as good as people say )...
#19 Posted by inferiorego (27815 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"i meant that his.."swag" has been the same in all of them. he can put on a different hat but its like the personality doesn't change"
I am in no way trying to offend. Really... But, every time you write something, all I can think of is a 12 year old girl.
Staff
#20 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol
#21 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, yeah.  My picks.

Baseball: Nolan Ryan (He struck a lot of guys out.  He won a lot of games.  Neither equals greatness when coupled with the number of walks and losses he put up.)
Basketball: Shaquille O'Neal (Anytime a league makes any rule, even one, for the benefit of one and only one player, it means he can't play.  There is no gray area in the NBA rulebook, so when the league's PR department calls someone "the hardest player to officiate", they really mean "the hardest person to keep on the floor for the sake of ratings and still get away with it.")
Football: Brett Favre (Yeah, he's good.  He's not top 5 all-time.  Manages to ruin any game that John Madden broadcasts, even when his team isn't playing in the game Madden's broadcasting.)

#22 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career...
#23 Edited by Lady Nightmare (9103 posts) - - Show Bio
  1. football: P. madd (lately)
  2. NCAA: IDk
  3. politics: McCain during the prime
  4. pop: Hannah Montana Yes She is
  5. hip hop-Lil Wayne I sick and tired of my bro saying his lyrics over and over
  6. movies- Angie

#24 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career..."
He's a beast, dude! lol
The Hall of Fame is about stats and, well, fame, so if you wanna' say he's not a Hall of Famer, that's fine.  That doesn't really matter to me, and you're right about his missing games... but that's why he's underrated.  When he was healthy, he was the best player in the world.  No, he didn't score 20 points per game in the Blazers title run, but he was the best player on the court in every game he played in those playoffs.  His rebounding, post defense and outlet passing let that team run all over everyone.  Again, you're right about his health and games missed.  He gets dropped down a spot or two because of it, just like Kareem probably gets dropped down a notch because he played too long,  but there aren't many centers in history that were better than he was at his best.  Four for sure.  Everybody else is debatable.  If he's not in your top ten, then you need to find some of his games and watch him play, because I don't believe that you have.

You're mistaken about his rebounding, too.  His rebounding average for 1974 to 1978 are as follows: 12.6, 13.4, 14.4, 13.2.  Well over 10.  The 14.4 led the league.

As far as the HOF goes, there's a guy who led the league in rebounding 8 times, won six rings and back-to-back defensive player of the year awards and who Phil Jackson called best pure athlete he's ever coached, and he'll will probably never get enshrined.  When he's in there, it'll mean something to me.
#25 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career..."
He's a beast, dude! lol
The Hall of Fame is about stats and, well, fame, so if you wanna' say he's not a Hall of Famer, that's fine.  That doesn't really matter to me, and you're right about his missing games... but that's why he's underrated.  When he was healthy, he was the best player in the world.  No, he didn't score 20 points per game in the Blazers title run, but he was the best player on the court in every game he played in those playoffs.  His rebounding, post defense and outlet passing let that team run all over everyone.  Again, you're right about his health and games missed.  He gets dropped down a spot or two because of it, just like Kareem probably gets dropped down a notch because he played too long,  but there aren't many centers in history that were better than he was at his best.  Four for sure.  Everybody else is debatable.  If he's not in your top ten, then you need to find some of his games and watch him play, because I don't believe that you have.

You're mistaken about his rebounding, too.  His rebounding average for 1974 to 1978 are as follows: 12.6, 13.4, 14.4, 13.2.  Well over 10.  The 14.4 led the league.

As far as the HOF goes, there's a guy who led the league in rebounding 8 times, won six rings and back-to-back defensive player of the year awards and who Phil Jackson called best pure athlete he's ever coached, and he'll will probably never get enshrined.  When he's in there, it'll mean something to me."
Actually I am not wrong about his stats... I never said that he didnt average 10 rebounds a season... I said he never average 20 points and 10 rebounds... which is All Star level standard stats for a Big Man... and as far as me never seeing Bill Walton play... I have seen him play of ESPN Classic... and he was not that impressive to me...
#26 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career..."
He's a beast, dude! lol
The Hall of Fame is about stats and, well, fame, so if you wanna' say he's not a Hall of Famer, that's fine.  That doesn't really matter to me, and you're right about his missing games... but that's why he's underrated.  When he was healthy, he was the best player in the world.  No, he didn't score 20 points per game in the Blazers title run, but he was the best player on the court in every game he played in those playoffs.  His rebounding, post defense and outlet passing let that team run all over everyone.  Again, you're right about his health and games missed.  He gets dropped down a spot or two because of it, just like Kareem probably gets dropped down a notch because he played too long,  but there aren't many centers in history that were better than he was at his best.  Four for sure.  Everybody else is debatable.  If he's not in your top ten, then you need to find some of his games and watch him play, because I don't believe that you have.

You're mistaken about his rebounding, too.  His rebounding average for 1974 to 1978 are as follows: 12.6, 13.4, 14.4, 13.2.  Well over 10.  The 14.4 led the league.

As far as the HOF goes, there's a guy who led the league in rebounding 8 times, won six rings and back-to-back defensive player of the year awards and who Phil Jackson called best pure athlete he's ever coached, and he'll will probably never get enshrined.  When he's in there, it'll mean something to me."
Actually I am not wrong about his stats... I never said that he didnt average 10 rebounds a season... I said he never average 20 points and 10 rebounds... which is All Star level standard stats for a Big Man... and as far as me never seeing Bill Walton play... I have seen him play of ESPN Classic... and he was not that impressive to me...
"
Alright.  I guess we'll agee to disagree.  Derrick Coleman averaged 20 and 10 three years in a row for the Nets.  If those are the only numbers that matter to you, then you're gonna' think Bill Walton is overrated.  I'll take Walton's 18.9 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 bpg with 52% fg's and 72% ft's over most 20-10 seasons.  Really, though... stats are just numbers, and the only stat that really matters is the one under the "W".  He deserved his MVP, but you can argue that he didn't.  That's opinion.  What's not opinion is that he was the best player on a team that won it all, sweeping Kareem's Lakers in the process.  He doesn't just have a ring... he led his team to a championship.  Isn't that what it's all about?
 
#27 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career..."
He's a beast, dude! lol
The Hall of Fame is about stats and, well, fame, so if you wanna' say he's not a Hall of Famer, that's fine.  That doesn't really matter to me, and you're right about his missing games... but that's why he's underrated.  When he was healthy, he was the best player in the world.  No, he didn't score 20 points per game in the Blazers title run, but he was the best player on the court in every game he played in those playoffs.  His rebounding, post defense and outlet passing let that team run all over everyone.  Again, you're right about his health and games missed.  He gets dropped down a spot or two because of it, just like Kareem probably gets dropped down a notch because he played too long,  but there aren't many centers in history that were better than he was at his best.  Four for sure.  Everybody else is debatable.  If he's not in your top ten, then you need to find some of his games and watch him play, because I don't believe that you have.

You're mistaken about his rebounding, too.  His rebounding average for 1974 to 1978 are as follows: 12.6, 13.4, 14.4, 13.2.  Well over 10.  The 14.4 led the league.

As far as the HOF goes, there's a guy who led the league in rebounding 8 times, won six rings and back-to-back defensive player of the year awards and who Phil Jackson called best pure athlete he's ever coached, and he'll will probably never get enshrined.  When he's in there, it'll mean something to me."
Actually I am not wrong about his stats... I never said that he didnt average 10 rebounds a season... I said he never average 20 points and 10 rebounds... which is All Star level standard stats for a Big Man... and as far as me never seeing Bill Walton play... I have seen him play of ESPN Classic... and he was not that impressive to me...
"
Alright.  I guess we'll agee to disagree.  Derrick Coleman averaged 20 and 10 three years in a row for the Nets.  If those are the only numbers that matter to you, then you're gonna' think Bill Walton is overrated.  I'll take Walton's 18.9 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 bpg with 52% fg's and 72% ft's over most 20-10 seasons.  Really, though... stats are just numbers, and the only stat that really matters is the one under the "W".  He deserved his MVP, but you can argue that he didn't.  That's opinion.  What's not opinion is that he was the best player on a team that won it all, sweeping Kareem's Lakers in the process.  He doesn't just have a ring... he led his team to a championship.  Isn't that what it's all about?
 "
NO. Bill Walton is overrated because he is sitting in the Hall Of Fame when he doesnt deserve to be there... he didnt do enough to qualify himself for that honor... and he himself said he didnt deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame... I dont know why you guys think Walton deserves a pass as a great Basketball player... cause quite frankily he was never the best NBA Player... not in my eyes... his skill was average at best.
#28 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career..."
He's a beast, dude! lol
The Hall of Fame is about stats and, well, fame, so if you wanna' say he's not a Hall of Famer, that's fine.  That doesn't really matter to me, and you're right about his missing games... but that's why he's underrated.  When he was healthy, he was the best player in the world.  No, he didn't score 20 points per game in the Blazers title run, but he was the best player on the court in every game he played in those playoffs.  His rebounding, post defense and outlet passing let that team run all over everyone.  Again, you're right about his health and games missed.  He gets dropped down a spot or two because of it, just like Kareem probably gets dropped down a notch because he played too long,  but there aren't many centers in history that were better than he was at his best.  Four for sure.  Everybody else is debatable.  If he's not in your top ten, then you need to find some of his games and watch him play, because I don't believe that you have.

You're mistaken about his rebounding, too.  His rebounding average for 1974 to 1978 are as follows: 12.6, 13.4, 14.4, 13.2.  Well over 10.  The 14.4 led the league.

As far as the HOF goes, there's a guy who led the league in rebounding 8 times, won six rings and back-to-back defensive player of the year awards and who Phil Jackson called best pure athlete he's ever coached, and he'll will probably never get enshrined.  When he's in there, it'll mean something to me."
Actually I am not wrong about his stats... I never said that he didnt average 10 rebounds a season... I said he never average 20 points and 10 rebounds... which is All Star level standard stats for a Big Man... and as far as me never seeing Bill Walton play... I have seen him play of ESPN Classic... and he was not that impressive to me...
"
Alright.  I guess we'll agee to disagree.  Derrick Coleman averaged 20 and 10 three years in a row for the Nets.  If those are the only numbers that matter to you, then you're gonna' think Bill Walton is overrated.  I'll take Walton's 18.9 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 bpg with 52% fg's and 72% ft's over most 20-10 seasons.  Really, though... stats are just numbers, and the only stat that really matters is the one under the "W".  He deserved his MVP, but you can argue that he didn't.  That's opinion.  What's not opinion is that he was the best player on a team that won it all, sweeping Kareem's Lakers in the process.  He doesn't just have a ring... he led his team to a championship.  Isn't that what it's all about?
 "
NO. Bill Walton is overrated because he is sitting in the Hall Of Fame when he doesnt deserve to be there... he didnt do enough to qualify himself for that honor... and he himself said he didnt deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame... I dont know why you guys think Walton deserves a pass as a great Basketball player... cause quite frankily he was never the best NBA Player... not in my eyes... his skill was average at best. "
NO!!!  Aw, man, I can let everything else slide,but "his skill was average at best"!!?  That hurts me!  I gotta' retort.  He's a skilled big man if there ever was one! lol
So, have there been any other championship teams who's best player was average at best!?
#29 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"

  1. Football - Joe Namath

  2. Basketball - Bill Walton

  3. Hip Hop - Lil Wayne

  4. Boxing - Butterbean

  5. Baseball - Mark McGwire
"
Dude, Bill Walton is severely underrated.  Anytime someone is the best player in the world, even for half a season, I don't think it's possible for him to be overrated.  Best passing big man ever.  Dominant rebounder, dominant post defender, dominated everyone the year he won the NBA title, including Kareem.

Joe Namath and Mark McGwire are overrated, though,and Butterbean isn't a real boxer. lol"
No Way. Bill Walton is Overrated... He played in only 468 career NBA games during the regular season... he never average 20 ppg and 10 rpg his in career... and he only had like 5 or 6 real full seasons... and yet he is a Hall Of Famer ? Thats Bullsh!t... he is not a real Hall Of Famer... name one real good Hall Of Fame player that you know of that averaged 13.3 ppg in his career..."
He's a beast, dude! lol
The Hall of Fame is about stats and, well, fame, so if you wanna' say he's not a Hall of Famer, that's fine.  That doesn't really matter to me, and you're right about his missing games... but that's why he's underrated.  When he was healthy, he was the best player in the world.  No, he didn't score 20 points per game in the Blazers title run, but he was the best player on the court in every game he played in those playoffs.  His rebounding, post defense and outlet passing let that team run all over everyone.  Again, you're right about his health and games missed.  He gets dropped down a spot or two because of it, just like Kareem probably gets dropped down a notch because he played too long,  but there aren't many centers in history that were better than he was at his best.  Four for sure.  Everybody else is debatable.  If he's not in your top ten, then you need to find some of his games and watch him play, because I don't believe that you have.

You're mistaken about his rebounding, too.  His rebounding average for 1974 to 1978 are as follows: 12.6, 13.4, 14.4, 13.2.  Well over 10.  The 14.4 led the league.

As far as the HOF goes, there's a guy who led the league in rebounding 8 times, won six rings and back-to-back defensive player of the year awards and who Phil Jackson called best pure athlete he's ever coached, and he'll will probably never get enshrined.  When he's in there, it'll mean something to me."
Actually I am not wrong about his stats... I never said that he didnt average 10 rebounds a season... I said he never average 20 points and 10 rebounds... which is All Star level standard stats for a Big Man... and as far as me never seeing Bill Walton play... I have seen him play of ESPN Classic... and he was not that impressive to me...
"
Alright.  I guess we'll agee to disagree.  Derrick Coleman averaged 20 and 10 three years in a row for the Nets.  If those are the only numbers that matter to you, then you're gonna' think Bill Walton is overrated.  I'll take Walton's 18.9 ppg, 13.2 rpg, 5.0 apg, 2.5 bpg with 52% fg's and 72% ft's over most 20-10 seasons.  Really, though... stats are just numbers, and the only stat that really matters is the one under the "W".  He deserved his MVP, but you can argue that he didn't.  That's opinion.  What's not opinion is that he was the best player on a team that won it all, sweeping Kareem's Lakers in the process.  He doesn't just have a ring... he led his team to a championship.  Isn't that what it's all about?
 "
NO. Bill Walton is overrated because he is sitting in the Hall Of Fame when he doesnt deserve to be there... he didnt do enough to qualify himself for that honor... and he himself said he didnt deserve to be in the Hall Of Fame... I dont know why you guys think Walton deserves a pass as a great Basketball player... cause quite frankily he was never the best NBA Player... not in my eyes... his skill was average at best. "
NO!!!  Aw, man, I can let everything else slide,but "his skill was average at best"!!?  That hurts me!  I gotta' retort.  He's a skilled big man if there ever was one! lol
So, have there been any other championship teams who's best player was average at best!?"
Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudamire, Karl Malone, Kareem Abdul Jabbar... these are skilled Big Men... not Bill Walton  !  Like I said he was average at best... Walton never showed me anything that says he is either Hall Of Fame material or All Star material
#30 Edited by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you just imply that Amare Stoudamire is more skilled than Bill Walton was?  Might wanna' check if he's ever averaged 20 and 10.  Bill Walton could show you that ring I was talking about.  Betcha' it would make Karl and Amare believers.  He already made Kareem a believer in those conference finals.

#31 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"

Did you just imply that Amare Stoudamire is more skilled than Bill Walton was?  Might wanna' check if he's ever averaged 20 and 10.  Bill Walton could show you that ring I was talking about.  Betcha' it would make Karl and Amare believers.  He already made Kareem a believer in those conference finals.

"
Amare hasnt averaged 20 and 10 yet... but his career isnt over with either... and if I recall correctly... Stoudamire has had three season were he averaged over 9 rebounds a game...now as far as Walton making Karl and Amare believer of how great he is because of his ring... well if I recall correctly Greatness is sumed up by being great over a solid period of time...Walton was good for what 3 or 4 years ? Compared to Malone being great over 15 years...Oh Yeah... you see there was this guy named Michael Jordan who played during Malone's era who shot down his chances for a title... now let me ask you this... who did Walton ever go up against that was as good as Jordan ? Dont say Erving cause Dr. J was not as Jordan...
#32 Posted by LightBright (4297 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"
Movies - George Clooney  ( for some reason I really dont think he is as good as people say )...
"
He's really not as good as people say...

Writing: Stephenie Meyer and J.K. Rowling
#33 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Did you just imply that Amare Stoudamire is more skilled than Bill Walton was?  Might wanna' check if he's ever averaged 20 and 10.  Bill Walton could show you that ring I was talking about.  Betcha' it would make Karl and Amare believers.  He already made Kareem a believer in those conference finals.

"
Amare hasnt averaged 20 and 10 yet... but his career isnt over with either... and if I recall correctly... Stoudamire has had three season were he averaged over 9 rebounds a game...now as far as Walton making Karl and Amare believer of how great he is because of his ring... well if I recall correctly Greatness is sumed up by being great over a solid period of time...Walton was good for what 3 or 4 years ? Compared to Malone being great over 15 years...Oh Yeah... you see there was this guy named Michael Jordan who played during Malone's era who shot down his chances for a title... now let me ask you this... who did Walton ever go up against that was as good as Jordan ? Dont say Erving cause Dr. J was not as Jordan..."
Walton didn't go up against anyone as good as Jordan.  Jordan is the greatest of all-time, but greatness is greatness.  I don't think there's any one way to sum it up, but if there is, it's as follows:

Stats can be made to support basically whatever point you want to get across.  Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, field goal percentage, and the reverse... the points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and field goal percentage of the guys you were responsible for on the defensive end.  Pick a random average player, and there's probably something he has over a random great player.  They're numbers.  Nobody's even sure which one's more important than the others with the exception of the "W", and nobody's really sure how they translate to different eras.

One thing puts everyone on a level playing field, though, and it's the only thing real you can really argue about because it's the one thing that everyone's playing for, and that's the NBA championship.  Everybody wants it.  It's everybody's end goal, and when your team wins it, and it's more because of you than anybody else on your team, then you are the answer to the question.

You don't want me to use  Julius Erving's name?  Fine.  In 1976-77, it was the goal of John Havlicek, Clyde Frazier, Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, David Thompson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Rick Barry to win the NBA championship.  None of them did that year because of a guy named Walton.
#34 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Did you just imply that Amare Stoudamire is more skilled than Bill Walton was?  Might wanna' check if he's ever averaged 20 and 10.  Bill Walton could show you that ring I was talking about.  Betcha' it would make Karl and Amare believers.  He already made Kareem a believer in those conference finals.

"
Amare hasnt averaged 20 and 10 yet... but his career isnt over with either... and if I recall correctly... Stoudamire has had three season were he averaged over 9 rebounds a game...now as far as Walton making Karl and Amare believer of how great he is because of his ring... well if I recall correctly Greatness is sumed up by being great over a solid period of time...Walton was good for what 3 or 4 years ? Compared to Malone being great over 15 years...Oh Yeah... you see there was this guy named Michael Jordan who played during Malone's era who shot down his chances for a title... now let me ask you this... who did Walton ever go up against that was as good as Jordan ? Dont say Erving cause Dr. J was not as Jordan..."
Walton didn't go up against anyone as good as Jordan.  Jordan is the greatest of all-time, but greatness is greatness.  I don't think there's any one way to sum it up, but if there is, it's as follows:

Stats can be made to support basically whatever point you want to get across.  Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, field goal percentage, and the reverse... the points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and field goal percentage of the guys you were responsible for on the defensive end.  Pick a random average player, and there's probably something he has over a random great player.  They're numbers.  Nobody's even sure which one's more important than the others with the exception of the "W", and nobody's really sure how they translate to different eras.

One thing puts everyone on a level playing field, though, and it's the only thing real you can really argue about because it's the one thing that everyone's playing for, and that's the NBA championship.  Everybody wants it.  It's everybody's end goal, and when your team wins it, and it's more because of you than anybody else on your team, then you are the answer to the question.

You don't want me to use  Julius Erving's name?  Fine.  In 1976-77, it was the goal of John Havlicek, Clyde Frazier, Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, David Thompson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Rick Barry to win the NBA championship.  None of them did that year because of a guy named Walton."
You kind of lost me with your states arguement... simply because basically everyone who is in the top 20 in ppg average are ither in the Hall Of Fame or are going to the Hall Of Fame... and another thing... I find it funny as hell that you have backed Bill Walton so hard about not being overrated... simply because he has an NBA Championship when his stats are average... but you do think Joe Namath is overrated when he has weak stats but he does have a Super Bowl ring... so whats the difference here ? Why is Walton so much better than Joe Namath if they both fit the same category in terms of athletes with average stats who have led teams to Championships ?
#35 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Did you just imply that Amare Stoudamire is more skilled than Bill Walton was?  Might wanna' check if he's ever averaged 20 and 10.  Bill Walton could show you that ring I was talking about.  Betcha' it would make Karl and Amare believers.  He already made Kareem a believer in those conference finals.

"
Amare hasnt averaged 20 and 10 yet... but his career isnt over with either... and if I recall correctly... Stoudamire has had three season were he averaged over 9 rebounds a game...now as far as Walton making Karl and Amare believer of how great he is because of his ring... well if I recall correctly Greatness is sumed up by being great over a solid period of time...Walton was good for what 3 or 4 years ? Compared to Malone being great over 15 years...Oh Yeah... you see there was this guy named Michael Jordan who played during Malone's era who shot down his chances for a title... now let me ask you this... who did Walton ever go up against that was as good as Jordan ? Dont say Erving cause Dr. J was not as Jordan..."
Walton didn't go up against anyone as good as Jordan.  Jordan is the greatest of all-time, but greatness is greatness.  I don't think there's any one way to sum it up, but if there is, it's as follows:

Stats can be made to support basically whatever point you want to get across.  Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, field goal percentage, and the reverse... the points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and field goal percentage of the guys you were responsible for on the defensive end.  Pick a random average player, and there's probably something he has over a random great player.  They're numbers.  Nobody's even sure which one's more important than the others with the exception of the "W", and nobody's really sure how they translate to different eras.

One thing puts everyone on a level playing field, though, and it's the only thing real you can really argue about because it's the one thing that everyone's playing for, and that's the NBA championship.  Everybody wants it.  It's everybody's end goal, and when your team wins it, and it's more because of you than anybody else on your team, then you are the answer to the question.

You don't want me to use  Julius Erving's name?  Fine.  In 1976-77, it was the goal of John Havlicek, Clyde Frazier, Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, David Thompson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Rick Barry to win the NBA championship.  None of them did that year because of a guy named Walton."
You kind of lost me with your states arguement... simply because basically everyone who is in the top 20 in ppg average are ither in the Hall Of Fame or are going to the Hall Of Fame... and another thing... I find it funny as hell that you have backed Bill Walton so hard about not being overrated... simply because he has an NBA Championship when his stats are average... but you do think Joe Namath is overrated when he has weak stats but he does have a Super Bowl ring... so whats the difference here ? Why is Walton so much better than Joe Namath if they both fit the same category in terms of athletes with average stats who have led teams to Championships ? "

Walton didn't put up average stats.  Just because you want 20 ppg doesn't mean 18, 13 and 5 assists with 2.5 blocks on 52% from the field is average.  There's also a humungous difference between the top 20 in ppg all-time and 20 ppg.  Both are 20's, yeah.  One category is an exclusive club of 20 players, the other consists of hundreds.  The top 20 in rebounds and assists are most likely in the Hall, too, but again, the Hall doesn't mean anything to me.  The Hall is someone else's opinion.  Leading your team to a championship is not, and football and basketball are apples and oranges.  One basketball player can make way more of a difference than one football player, with the exception of someone who's unblockable, like Lawrence Taylor.  Bill Walton meant way more to that Trail Blazer title than Joe Namath did to the Jet one.  Joe Namath was never the greatest QB in the NFL at any point in time, let alone greatest football player.  He was also only on the field for half of his team's plays, and half of those were hand-offs.  In contrast, Bill Walton was the passing hub for his team, and was involved in probably 95% of it's possessions.  His team also swept Kareem's Lakers in the Conference Finals.  Kareem was far and away the Lakers' best player, is widely considered a top 3 center of all-time, and Walton was matched up with him the entire series.
#36 Edited by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Did you just imply that Amare Stoudamire is more skilled than Bill Walton was?  Might wanna' check if he's ever averaged 20 and 10.  Bill Walton could show you that ring I was talking about.  Betcha' it would make Karl and Amare believers.  He already made Kareem a believer in those conference finals.

"
Amare hasnt averaged 20 and 10 yet... but his career isnt over with either... and if I recall correctly... Stoudamire has had three season were he averaged over 9 rebounds a game...now as far as Walton making Karl and Amare believer of how great he is because of his ring... well if I recall correctly Greatness is sumed up by being great over a solid period of time...Walton was good for what 3 or 4 years ? Compared to Malone being great over 15 years...Oh Yeah... you see there was this guy named Michael Jordan who played during Malone's era who shot down his chances for a title... now let me ask you this... who did Walton ever go up against that was as good as Jordan ? Dont say Erving cause Dr. J was not as Jordan..."
Walton didn't go up against anyone as good as Jordan.  Jordan is the greatest of all-time, but greatness is greatness.  I don't think there's any one way to sum it up, but if there is, it's as follows:

Stats can be made to support basically whatever point you want to get across.  Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, field goal percentage, and the reverse... the points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals and field goal percentage of the guys you were responsible for on the defensive end.  Pick a random average player, and there's probably something he has over a random great player.  They're numbers.  Nobody's even sure which one's more important than the others with the exception of the "W", and nobody's really sure how they translate to different eras.

One thing puts everyone on a level playing field, though, and it's the only thing real you can really argue about because it's the one thing that everyone's playing for, and that's the NBA championship.  Everybody wants it.  It's everybody's end goal, and when your team wins it, and it's more because of you than anybody else on your team, then you are the answer to the question.

You don't want me to use  Julius Erving's name?  Fine.  In 1976-77, it was the goal of John Havlicek, Clyde Frazier, Moses Malone, Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, Pete Maravich, George Gervin, David Thompson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Rick Barry to win the NBA championship.  None of them did that year because of a guy named Walton."
You kind of lost me with your states arguement... simply because basically everyone who is in the top 20 in ppg average are ither in the Hall Of Fame or are going to the Hall Of Fame... and another thing... I find it funny as hell that you have backed Bill Walton so hard about not being overrated... simply because he has an NBA Championship when his stats are average... but you do think Joe Namath is overrated when he has weak stats but he does have a Super Bowl ring... so whats the difference here ? Why is Walton so much better than Joe Namath if they both fit the same category in terms of athletes with average stats who have led teams to Championships ? "

Walton didn't put up average stats.  Just because you want 20 ppg doesn't mean 18, 13 and 5 assists with 2.5 blocks on 52% from the field is average.  There's also a humungous difference between the top 20 in ppg all-time and 20 ppg.  Both are 20's, yeah.  One category is an exclusive club of 20 players, the other consists of hundreds.  The top 20 in rebounds and assists are most likely in the Hall, too, but again, the Hall doesn't mean anything to me.  The Hall is someone else's opinion.  Leading your team to a championship is not, and football and basketball are apples and oranges.  One basketball player can make way more of a difference than one football player, with the exception of someone who's unblockable, like Lawrence Taylor.  Bill Walton meant way more to that Trail Blazer title than Joe Namath did to the Jet one.  Joe Namath was never the greatest QB in the NFL at any point in time, let alone greatest football player.  He was also only on the field for half of his team's plays, and half of those were hand-offs.  In contrast, Bill Walton was the passing hub for his team, and was involved in probably 95% of it's possessions.  His team also swept Kareem's Lakers in the Conference Finals.  Kareem was far and away the Lakers' best player, is widely considered a top 3 center of all-time, and Walton was matched up with him the entire series."
Walton was never the best NBA Player... that is strickly your opinion... you act like Walton won the NBA Championship by himself... he didnt. He had help in Maurice Lucas... and the fact that you keep making it seem like that is outrageous to me... he was never that good. And like I said greatness is measured is being good over a long period of time... why do you keep using one or two instances when Walton did good compared to his overall career ? So what Walton held Jabbar on an occassion... Jabbar has held his own against Chamberlain, Parish, Reed and other players for many years man... you wanna keep bringing up when Walton had his two or three good years... compared to his entire career which sucked overall... and also... whether you like it or not Bill Walton is in the Hall Of Fame and he does not deserve to be there... THATS WHAT MAKES HIM OVERRATED  !  The fact that he was voted into an elite class of the best pro basketball players ever... and he himself was not one of them... you can say that the Hall does not matter... but in reality it does. Because its something that is giving him honor for a pro career that is not that honorable overall
#37 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
Okay... Maybe I went a little overboard with my last Reply... I Sorry HobGadling
#38 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio

King Saturn said:

"Okay... Maybe I went a little overboard with my last Reply... I Sorry HobGadling
"

Nah, it's all good.  I enjoy arguing about this kinda' stuff.

Anyway, obviously the Hall "matters" to all players.  I'm just saying that it shouldn't matter if we're debating the overall merits of somebody, because it's just someone's opinion.

We're just going to keep going back and forth, though, because, whether three years is good enough or not, we differ in how great those three years were.  In my eyes, he was the best player in the world for a year and a half, and a lot of people who played against him in that year and a half would agree.  I never meant to imply that he did it by himself, either.  Sure, Maurice Lucas was a nice player, but that was Walton's team, and it was a team who had a weaker supporting cast than Kareem's Lakers or Erving's Philly team.

Anyway, my thought process on greatness has always leaned toward who the player was in their prime, and less toward the accumulation of stats and accolades.  If I'm asked if Jordan was better than Bird, my brain starts thinking of each player and what they bring to a game of basketball.  If you stuck both players on a team full of average guys, which team would be better... that kind of stuff.  I don't really compare accumulated stats.  Just my personal view of things, I guess.

To me, Walton is less Joe Namath, more Gale Sayers or Sandy Koufax.

#39 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"

King Saturn said:

"Okay... Maybe I went a little overboard with my last Reply... I Sorry HobGadling
"

Nah, it's all good.  I enjoy arguing about this kinda' stuff.

Anyway, obviously the Hall "matters" to all players.  I'm just saying that it shouldn't matter if we're debating the overall merits of somebody, because it's just someone's opinion.

We're just going to keep going back and forth, though, because, whether three years is good enough or not, we differ in how great those three years were.  In my eyes, he was the best player in the world for a year and a half, and a lot of people who played against him in that year and a half would agree.  I never meant to imply that he did it by himself, either.  Sure, Maurice Lucas was a nice player, but that was Walton's team, and it was a team who had a weaker supporting cast than Kareem's Lakers or Erving's Philly team.

Anyway, my thought process on greatness has always leaned toward who the player was in their prime, and less toward the accumulation of stats and accolades.  If I'm asked if Jordan was better than Bird, my brain starts thinking of each player and what they bring to a game of basketball.  If you stuck both players on a team full of average guys, which team would be better... that kind of stuff.  I don't really compare accumulated stats.  Just my personal view of things, I guess.

To me, Walton is less Joe Namath, more Gale Sayers or Sandy Koufax.

"
Fair Enough
#40 Posted by Breast Master (142 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah well, Jim Brown was the greatest lacrosse player ever... so there!

As for "overrated", anything by JJ Abrams is overrated. Derek Jeter is overrated. Ernest Hemmingway is overrated. U2 is overrated. The sun is sooooo overrated. I mean really, what is it doing in the winter? Can you give off a Just little heat? My lord! And you call yourself a star! Shame!!!

#41 Posted by King Saturn (224817 posts) - - Show Bio
Breast Master said:
"Yeah well, Jim Brown was the greatest lacrosse player ever... so there!

As for "overrated", anything by JJ Abrams is overrated. Derek Jeter is overrated. Ernest Hemmingway is overrated. U2 is overrated. The sun is sooooo overrated. I mean really, what is it doing in the winter? Can you give off a Just little heat? My lord! And you call yourself a star! Shame!!!"
Ha Ha Ha