#251 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" I miss Pharoahe Monch...  "
As do I.
Moderator
#252 Edited by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @The Mast said: 

 I've heard Tha Carter 3, nothing on there is remotely clever or intellectual. Nothing about his rhymes have gained any weight. I mean, A Milli? Nearly everyone that freestyled over that beat did it way better than him. Fabolous, Jadakiss etc, they beat him with his own song. Jadakiss hasn't been good since...fuck, I don't even know when. "
The Carter 3 is a weak ass album.I'm not glorifying Wayne or even saying he's one of my favorite rappers but the dudes you think are better than him are garbage.It's a reason not many people have heard of them.Vast Aire's bars are mediocre.Saigon is better than him and he's wack too. "
 
Did you honestly just pull the "If they haven't been heard of, they're garbage." card? If you went into mainstream society and asked if anyone knew MF Doom, they'd say no most likely. Is he garbage? No.
 
Nobody I've named is worse than Lil Wayne. All of them have way superior lyrical skill. This is factual. If you use literary and grammatical techniques to judge the skill of how an MC puts together a verse or a bar, Lil Wayne's nowhere near top.
#253 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:
" @Vance Astro said:

" @The Mast said: 

 I've heard Tha Carter 3, nothing on there is remotely clever or intellectual. Nothing about his rhymes have gained any weight. I mean, A Milli? Nearly everyone that freestyled over that beat did it way better than him. Fabolous, Jadakiss etc, they beat him with his own song. Jadakiss hasn't been good since...fuck, I don't even know when. "
The Carter 3 is a weak ass album.I'm not glorifying Wayne or even saying he's one of my favorite rappers but the dudes you think are better than him are garbage.It's a reason not many people have heard of them.Vast Aire's bars are mediocre.Saigon is better than him and he's wack too. "
 Did you honestly just pull the "If they haven't been heard of, they're garbage." card? If you went into mainstream society and asked if anyone knew MF Doom, they'd say no most likely. Is he garbage? No. Nobody I've named is worse than Lil Wayne. All of them have way superior lyrical skill. This is factual. If you use literary and grammatical techniques to judge the skill of how an MC puts together a verse or a bar, Lil Wayne's nowhere near top. "
You can't state your opinion as fact and expect me to accept it.
Moderator
#254 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Donnieman v5.1 said:
"

@Vance Astro: I liked it. I don't think it's as good as his past albums either but I realize his past albums were absolutely dope and hard to top. and Freeway is garbage now IMO. Only his first album and his features from around that time were dope. I don't know what he has become. Also, Jay Electronica is the sh!t. I listen to him everyday. People are seriously sleeping on him. His songs are dope. AND, Just Blaze is behind him with production.

"
As far as Doom,Born Like this was an ok album.With such a delay I expect more from Doom.Him and Ghostface where supposed to be doing an album.I don't know what happened with that.As far as Freeway.I think Free At Last and Philadelphia Freeway were good albums.I can't really put my finger on why I like Free.He's not really an incredible lyricist but he does make good songs IMO.And as far a Jay..I heard Exhibit C on the radio the other day.I was excited.It's such a good song. "
True. I was following their collab album for a while but then it just disappeared. I like Jay Electronica cuz he proves that people like Lil Wayne aren't the only sound that can come out of that part of the south. He's something special. No homo lmao :-P
#255 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donnieman v5.1 said:
True. I was following their collab album for a while but then it just disappeared. I like Jay Electronica cuz he proves that people like Lil Wayne aren't the only sound that can come out of that part of the south. He's something special. No homo lmao :-P "
I didn't know he was from NO until I heard Exhibit A.You can't tell he's from the South.Not just because of how he rhymes but because he doesn't really have an accent.
Moderator
#256 Posted by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:
" @Vance Astro said:

" @The Mast said: 

 I've heard Tha Carter 3, nothing on there is remotely clever or intellectual. Nothing about his rhymes have gained any weight. I mean, A Milli? Nearly everyone that freestyled over that beat did it way better than him. Fabolous, Jadakiss etc, they beat him with his own song. Jadakiss hasn't been good since...fuck, I don't even know when. "
The Carter 3 is a weak ass album.I'm not glorifying Wayne or even saying he's one of my favorite rappers but the dudes you think are better than him are garbage.It's a reason not many people have heard of them.Vast Aire's bars are mediocre.Saigon is better than him and he's wack too. "
 Did you honestly just pull the "If they haven't been heard of, they're garbage." card? If you went into mainstream society and asked if anyone knew MF Doom, they'd say no most likely. Is he garbage? No. Nobody I've named is worse than Lil Wayne. All of them have way superior lyrical skill. This is factual. If you use literary and grammatical techniques to judge the skill of how an MC puts together a verse or a bar, Lil Wayne's nowhere near top. "
You can't state your opinion as fact and expect me to accept it. "
 
It's not opinion, it's fact. Fact based on literary and grammatical skill, beyond opinion.
 
Just like you can factually judge how someone is a better guitarist, skill wise, you can do so with MCs.
#257 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @Donnieman v5.1 said:
True. I was following their collab album for a while but then it just disappeared. I like Jay Electronica cuz he proves that people like Lil Wayne aren't the only sound that can come out of that part of the south. He's something special. No homo lmao :-P "
I didn't know he was from NO until I heard Exhibit A.You can't tell he's from the South.Not just because of how he rhymes but because he doesn't really have an accent. "
Also, people down there don't really rock waves. I have waves actually but I'm a yankee from the North :-P
#258 Edited by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:


It's not opinion, it's fact. Fact based on literary and grammatical skill, beyond opinion.  Just like you can factually judge how someone is a better guitarist, skill wise, you can do so with MCs. "

I'm done with you.You cannot prove to me that Vast Aire is better than Lil Wayne.I've heard music from both.You can post a bar and I can post a bar.You are going to say what I post sucks and I will do the same to you.You cannot prove it..it's an opinion.I didn't make this thread to argue about bullsh#t.I have my opinion.You have yours.There's nothing more to say.I think You putting Aesop Rock over Nas is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard but that's related to my preference and my opinion so I can only disagree I can't prove you wrong.I can post all the Nas bars I can find,you're not going to change your opinion so that's the end of it.
Moderator
#259 Posted by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:

It's not opinion, it's fact. Fact based on literary and grammatical skill, beyond opinion.  Just like you can factually judge how someone is a better guitarist, skill wise, you can do so with MCs. "
I'm done with you.You cannot prove to me that Vast Aire is better than Lil Wayne.I've heard music from both.You can post a bar and I can post a bar.You are going to say what I post sucks and I will do the same to you.You cannot prove it..it's an opinion.I didn't make this thread to argue about bullsh#t.I have my opinion.You have yours.There's nothing more to say.I think You putting Aesop Rock over Nas is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard but that's related to my preference and my opinion so I can only disagree I can't prove you wrong.I can post all the Nas bars I can find,you're not going to change you opinion so that's the end of it. "
 
I've never seen such ignorance of facts. I can, I can factually prove it. Whether or not you'll ignore those facts is your call, but I don't need your agreement; such is the nature of factual information.
 
It's NOT an opinion. I am NOT talking about MUSIC. I am talking about straight up SKILL levels, not whose songs you prefer more. You cannot sit there and say that the guy from Nickelback is a better guitarist than Joe Satriani. He factually is not. You might like Nickelback's songs, but on a SKILL level, Satch is one of the world's best technical players.
 
The same can be done for ANY art. Forget whose songs you enjoy, because this is about SKILL. You CANNOT choose who is factually more skilled at something, you just can't. Someone is better at something than someone else, or they are not.
 
Now, you obviously cannot comprehend the difference between technical skill and creative ability, and how the former is objective whilst the other is subjective. So I'M done with YOU. You refuse to accept fact and the difference between fact and opinion, so there you go.
#260 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:

It's not opinion, it's fact. Fact based on literary and grammatical skill, beyond opinion.  Just like you can factually judge how someone is a better guitarist, skill wise, you can do so with MCs. "
I'm done with you.You cannot prove to me that Vast Aire is better than Lil Wayne.I've heard music from both.You can post a bar and I can post a bar.You are going to say what I post sucks and I will do the same to you.You cannot prove it..it's an opinion.I didn't make this thread to argue about bullsh#t.I have my opinion.You have yours.There's nothing more to say.I think You putting Aesop Rock over Nas is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard but that's related to my preference and my opinion so I can only disagree I can't prove you wrong.I can post all the Nas bars I can find,you're not going to change you opinion so that's the end of it. "
 I've never seen such ignorance of facts. I can, I can factually prove it. Whether or not you'll ignore those facts is your call, but I don't need your agreement; such is the nature of factual information.  It's NOT an opinion. I am NOT talking about MUSIC. I am talking about straight up SKILL levels, not whose songs you prefer more. You cannot sit there and say that the guy from Nickelback is a better guitarist than Joe Satriani. He factually is not. You might like Nickelback's songs, but on a SKILL level, Satch is one of the world's best technical players.  The same can be done for ANY art. Forget whose songs you enjoy, because this is about SKILL. You CANNOT choose who is factually more skilled at something, you just can't. Someone is better at something than someone else, or they are not.  Now, you obviously cannot comprehend the difference between technical skill and creative ability, and how the former is objective whilst the other is subjective. So I'M done with YOU. You refuse to accept fact and the difference between fact and opinion, so there you go. "
Let me know when you post something factual.
Moderator
#261 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
well... on lighter notes... I was wondering if you folks had to put together a list of the 20 worst MCs of all time... who would you put on that list ?
#262 Posted by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:

It's not opinion, it's fact. Fact based on literary and grammatical skill, beyond opinion.  Just like you can factually judge how someone is a better guitarist, skill wise, you can do so with MCs. "
I'm done with you.You cannot prove to me that Vast Aire is better than Lil Wayne.I've heard music from both.You can post a bar and I can post a bar.You are going to say what I post sucks and I will do the same to you.You cannot prove it..it's an opinion.I didn't make this thread to argue about bullsh#t.I have my opinion.You have yours.There's nothing more to say.I think You putting Aesop Rock over Nas is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard but that's related to my preference and my opinion so I can only disagree I can't prove you wrong.I can post all the Nas bars I can find,you're not going to change you opinion so that's the end of it. "
 I've never seen such ignorance of facts. I can, I can factually prove it. Whether or not you'll ignore those facts is your call, but I don't need your agreement; such is the nature of factual information.  It's NOT an opinion. I am NOT talking about MUSIC. I am talking about straight up SKILL levels, not whose songs you prefer more. You cannot sit there and say that the guy from Nickelback is a better guitarist than Joe Satriani. He factually is not. You might like Nickelback's songs, but on a SKILL level, Satch is one of the world's best technical players.  The same can be done for ANY art. Forget whose songs you enjoy, because this is about SKILL. You CANNOT choose who is factually more skilled at something, you just can't. Someone is better at something than someone else, or they are not.  Now, you obviously cannot comprehend the difference between technical skill and creative ability, and how the former is objective whilst the other is subjective. So I'M done with YOU. You refuse to accept fact and the difference between fact and opinion, so there you go. "
Let me know when you post something factual. "
 
I offered you the chance to do a lyric-for-lyric comparison, but you shit yourself because you know I'd handle you, and you also know that you'd brush it off as bias. I can bring all the fact in the world if you want to do this, but if you're not going to put your hand up and admit when you've lost a point, then what's the point?
 
So, you go first. You post a Lil Wayne rhyme or a Nas rhyme that you consider to be of exceptional skill, and I will do the same for someone else and provide facts as to what it's better or superior.
 
If you're gonna waste my time because you don't want a loss on your record, tell me you're gonna waste my time.
#263 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" well... on lighter notes... I was wondering if you folks had to put together a list of the 20 worst MCs of all time... who would you put on that list ? "
That's too hard I won't even try lol.
#264 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donnieman v5.1 said:
" @King Saturn said:
" well... on lighter notes... I was wondering if you folks had to put together a list of the 20 worst MCs of all time... who would you put on that list ? "
That's too hard I won't even try lol. "
aw come on... it should not be that hard... it doesnt even have to be in order... 
lol
#265 Posted by Jax (7542 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: One of them would have to be Soulja Boy of course. I hate him with a passion. Next, I don't know. 
#266 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:
I offered you the chance to do a lyric-for-lyric comparison, but you shit yourself because you know I'd handle you, and you also know that you'd brush it off as bias. I can bring all the fact in the world if you want to do this, but if you're not going to put your hand up and admit when you've lost a point, then what's the point?  So, you go first. You post a Lil Wayne rhyme or a Nas rhyme that you consider to be of exceptional skill, and I will do the same for someone else and provide facts as to what it's better or superior.  If you're gonna waste my time because you don't want a loss on your record, tell me you're gonna waste my time. "
I don't want a loss on my record? You think anybody cares about this? You're trying to prove an opinion.You can't do it.You can keep pretending you have facts to back up you claims but you don't.You can say a bar is better than what I post but other people could disagree.Me and King Saturn disagreed with you in another thread.Just proves what you say about Hip-Hop is YOUR opinion.We can't disagree with facts but we can disagree with opinions which we did.If i'm wasting your time.Stop responding..you're wrong anyway.
Moderator
#267 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: Well, Birdman might be on there.
#268 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" well... on lighter notes... I was wondering if you folks had to put together a list of the 20 worst MCs of all time... who would you put on that list ? "
1.Lil Whyte 
2.Bow Wow (because he doesn't write his own lyrics) 
3.Lil Boosie 
4.Shawty Lo 
5.Wocka Flocka Flames 
6.Lil Romeo 
7.Silkk the Shocker 
8.Master P 
9.Young Hot 
10.Soulja Boy 
11.Webbie 
12.Lil Boosie 
13.Trina 
14.Gucci Mane 
15.O.J The Juiceman 
16.Shay Davis 
17.C-Murder 
18.Baby 
19.Mannie Fresh 
20.Ace Hood
Moderator
#269 Posted by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:
I offered you the chance to do a lyric-for-lyric comparison, but you shit yourself because you know I'd handle you, and you also know that you'd brush it off as bias. I can bring all the fact in the world if you want to do this, but if you're not going to put your hand up and admit when you've lost a point, then what's the point?  So, you go first. You post a Lil Wayne rhyme or a Nas rhyme that you consider to be of exceptional skill, and I will do the same for someone else and provide facts as to what it's better or superior.  If you're gonna waste my time because you don't want a loss on your record, tell me you're gonna waste my time. "
I don't want a loss on my record? You think anybody cares about this? You're trying to prove an opinion.You can't do it.You can keep pretending you have facts to back up you claims but you don't.You can say a bar is better than what I post but other people could disagree.Me and King Saturn disagreed with you in another thread.Just proves what you say about Hip-Hop is YOUR opinion.We can't disagree with facts but we can disagree with opinions which we did.If i'm wasting your time.Stop responding..you're wrong anyway. "
 
Ok, so you're chickening out. That's fine, just be man enough to admit it.
 
Saturn didn't disagree, he mostly agreed with me and then disagreed on some. I was more than prepared to give him the facts but he couldn't be bothered and dropped out respectfully. He's still wrong, but he isn't sitting here voraciously trying to tell me how wrong I am whilst simultaneously chickening out on the debate that would prove it...like you.
 
So, whatever. I expected better from your name.
#270 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
well here goes my list  ( not in order ) 
 
1. Too Short 
2. Lil Boosie 
3. Lil Scrappy 
4. OJ the Juiceman 
5. Master P 
6. Bubba Sparkxx 
7. Jim Jones 
8. Mike Jones 
9. Lil Wayne 
10. Project Pat 
11. Lil Wyte 
12. E-40 
13. Baby aka Birdman 
14. Gucci Mane 
15. Yo Gotti 
16. Trina 
17. Rick Ross 
18. Webbie 
19. C-Murder 
20. Soulja Boy  
 
beat than... lmao
#271 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:
Ok, so you're chickening out. That's fine, just be man enough to admit it.  Saturn didn't disagree, he mostly agreed with me and then disagreed on some. I was more than prepared to give him the facts but he couldn't be bothered and dropped out respectfully. He's still wrong, but he isn't sitting here voraciously trying to tell me how wrong I am whilst simultaneously chickening out on the debate that would prove it...like you.  So, whatever. I expected better from your name. "
No,there's nothing to chicken out of.You can't prove an opinion.You didn't expect anything..that's a sad way of trying to bait me.
Moderator
#272 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @King Saturn said:
" well... on lighter notes... I was wondering if you folks had to put together a list of the 20 worst MCs of all time... who would you put on that list ? "
1.Lil Whyte 2.Bow Wow (because he doesn't write his own lyrics) 3.Lil Boosie 4.Shawty Lo 5.Wocka Flocka Flames 6.Lil Romeo 7.Silkk the Shocker 8.Master P 9.Young Hot 10.Soulja Boy 11.Webbie 12.Lil Boosie 13.Trina 14.Gucci Mane 15.O.J The Juiceman 16.Shay Davis 17.C-Murder 18.Baby 19.Mannie Fresh 20.Ace Hood "
good call... 
#273 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: Decent list. A few of them I don't think should be on there but besides that...
#274 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donnieman v5.1 said:
" @King Saturn: Decent list. A few of them I don't think should be on there but besides that... "
name the few that shouldnt...
#275 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" 2.Bow Wow (because he doesn't write his own lyrics)
He's actually gotten better. Besides, a lot of good rappers don't write their own lyrics. There could even be some that say the write their own stuff, but really don't.
#276 Posted by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:
Ok, so you're chickening out. That's fine, just be man enough to admit it.  Saturn didn't disagree, he mostly agreed with me and then disagreed on some. I was more than prepared to give him the facts but he couldn't be bothered and dropped out respectfully. He's still wrong, but he isn't sitting here voraciously trying to tell me how wrong I am whilst simultaneously chickening out on the debate that would prove it...like you.  So, whatever. I expected better from your name. "
No,there's nothing to chicken out of.You can't prove an opinion.You didn't expect anything..that's a sad way of trying to bait me. "
 
You're either done with me or you're not, Vance. We're doing this in two threads and we could have spent this time ending the debate by having it.
 
All this is time that could have been spent having the debate that would prove ME right, and you an ignorant hardhead, or you right and me the same thing. You won't do it, though. You won't risk it because you don't want to lose. That's what it is, fact. Why not? What are you so afraid of? I'm not trying to bait you, it's just that you have a rep as a good debater, yet you're sitting there ignoring fact. That's No No #1.
#277 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: Too Short. I actually like him. He's not the best lyrically but at least he can put together a decent narrative and ride a beat, at times.
#278 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" 2.Bow Wow (because he doesn't write his own lyrics)
He's actually gotten better. Besides, a lot of good rappers don't write their own lyrics. There could even be some that say the write their own stuff, but really don't. "
Yea but I wouldn't say that Foxy Brown or Diddy are good rappers either.They don't write their own stuff.Plus he's still wack even with Wayne and T.I writing his stuff.And he's ridiculously obvious.He even uses their flow with it.
Moderator
#279 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" Yea but I wouldn't say that Foxy Brown or Diddy are good rappers either.They don't write their own stuff.Plus he's still wack even with Wayne and T.I writing his stuff.And he's ridiculously obvious.He even uses their flow with it. "
Foxy Brown was aight. Everyone know P. Diddy can't rap, even if he did write his lyrics. Also, I don't hear Bow Wow using other people's flow. But, that's just me.
#280 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donnieman v5.1 said:
" @King Saturn: Too Short. I actually like him. He's not the best lyrically but at least he can put together a decent narrative and ride a beat, at times. "
fair enough I guess... 

#281 Edited by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Mast said:

 You're either done with me or you're not, Vance. We're doing this in two threads and we could have spent this time ending the debate by having it. All this is time that could have been spent having the debate that would prove ME right, and you an ignorant hardhead, or you right and me the same thing. You won't do it, though. You won't risk it because you don't want to lose. That's what it is, fact. Why not? What are you so afraid of? I'm not trying to bait you, it's just that you have a rep as a good debater, yet you're sitting there ignoring fact. That's No No #1. "

I should have just stopped responding to you.I have a rep as a good debater because when I state something I can back it up.You keep trying to convince me you can prove an opinion again..you are obviously trying to bait me by bringing up my rep,calling me ignorant and saying I won't risk losing.What is there to lose?.If you want to debate see me in battle forums,don't call me out on something you can't even prove and then try to act like i'm ducking an L.
Moderator
#282 Posted by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ? 
#283 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" Yea but I wouldn't say that Foxy Brown or Diddy are good rappers either.They don't write their own stuff.Plus he's still wack even with Wayne and T.I writing his stuff.And he's ridiculously obvious.He even uses their flow with it. "
Foxy Brown was aight. Everyone know P. Diddy can't rap, even if he did write his lyrics. Also, I don't hear Bow Wow using other people's flow. But, that's just me. "
I would be aight too if Nas and Jay-Z were writing my lyrics.
Moderator
#284 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
" I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ?  "
He's not all that good to me. He's missing a lot of things, IMO.
#285 Posted by The Mast (779 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" @The Mast said:

 You're either done with me or you're not, Vance. We're doing this in two threads and we could have spent this time ending the debate by having it. All this is time that could have been spent having the debate that would prove ME right, and you an ignorant hardhead, or you right and me the same thing. You won't do it, though. You won't risk it because you don't want to lose. That's what it is, fact. Why not? What are you so afraid of? I'm not trying to bait you, it's just that you have a rep as a good debater, yet you're sitting there ignoring fact. That's No No #1. "

I should have just stopped responding to you.I have a rep as a good debater because when I state something I can back it up.You keep trying to convince me you can prove an opinion again..you are obviously trying to bait me by bringing up my rep,calling me ignorant and saying I won't risk losing.What is there to lose?.If you want to debate see me in battle forums,don't call me out on something you can't even prove and then try to act like i'm ducking an L. "
 
I'm offering to back it up, but me backing it up would expose everyone to the facts. That means you'd either have to admit the loss or look even worse with continual denial. Thus, you're not up for the debate and you're ducking. You are being ignorant, that's not a bait tactic. Ignorance of facts is ignorance. It's not personal, it's just something you're doing.
 
It's cool. I just wish you'd have said so rather than wasting my time instead of continuing to say I can't prove something that I'm offering to prove factually. I'm not ducking it, I'm asking you to engage me in debate so that I CAN prove it, but you won't.
 
So, whatever. I'll know I didn't duck out. Convince YOURSELF of whatever you wish.
#286 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio

You're still talking to me but b#tching about me wasting your time? You're the one who believes they can prove an opinion.That's nice.I guess i'm a better debater than I thought if people have to pretend I'm scared to debate with them to make themselves feel better.

Moderator
#287 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donnieman v5.1 said:
" @King Saturn said:
" I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ?  "
He's not all that good to me. He's missing a lot of things, IMO. "
I agree.Joell is nice but he's not really a package rapper.He can't really make good songs without good production behind him.
Moderator
#288 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"I would be aight too if Nas and Jay-Z were writing my lyrics. "
You used P. Diddy to justify that those who don't write lyrics can't rap. P. Diddy can't rap either way. But, Foxy can rap and doesn't write lyrics.
#289 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
"I would be aight too if Nas and Jay-Z were writing my lyrics. "
You used P. Diddy to justify that those who don't write lyrics can't rap. P. Diddy can't rap either way. But, Foxy can rap and doesn't write lyrics. "
Don't front and act like PD wasn't the man in the 90's :) You're right though.He can't rapper either way but he doesn't really have the same caliber of writers.I mean some of the guys who wrote for Diddy,you might have never even heard a song from them.
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#290 Edited by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
@Donnieman v5.1 said:

" @King Saturn said:

" I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ?  "
He's not all that good to me. He's missing a lot of things, IMO. "
Joell Ortiz is Nice... his first album was pretty solid to me... and he always brings it on Mixtapes... 
  
 

@Vance Astro said:

" @Donnieman v5.1 said:

" @King Saturn said:
" I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ?  "
He's not all that good to me. He's missing a lot of things, IMO. "
I agree.Joell is nice but he's not really a package rapper.He can't really make good songs without good production behind him. "
well if he was on Aftermath... he would have Dr. Dre, Hi-Tek, Mr. Porter on Production from Aftermath... that alone should be enough to provide some quality production... 
#291 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
"I mean some of the guys who wrote for Diddy,you might have never even heard a song from them. "
I bet Mase, Black Rob, and Loon used to write for him.
#292 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
"I mean some of the guys who wrote for Diddy,you might have never even heard a song from them. "
I bet Mase, Black Rob, and Loon used to write for him. "
Loon and Black Rob probably. 
 
@King Saturn said:
@Vance Astro said:

" @Donnieman v5.1 said:

" @King Saturn said:
" I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ?  "
He's not all that good to me. He's missing a lot of things, IMO. "
I agree.Joell is nice but he's not really a package rapper.He can't really make good songs without good production behind him. "
well if he was on Aftermath... he would have Dr. Dre, Hi-Tek, Mr. Porter on Production from Aftermath... that alone should be enough to provide some quality production...  "
Dre dropped the Game twice after both his first two albums sold well over platinum.Dre is a good producer but I don't know what he's doing sometimes.
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#293 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" Loon and Black Rob probably. 
Both of them were tight. Mase too.
#294 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn: I hate to say this but... he doesn't really have the image needed to succeed in mainstream rap.
#295 Edited by King Saturn (223822 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:

" @Static Shock said:

" @Vance Astro said:
"I mean some of the guys who wrote for Diddy,you might have never even heard a song from them. "
I bet Mase, Black Rob, and Loon used to write for him. "
Loon and Black Rob probably. 
 
@King Saturn said:
@Vance Astro said:

" @Donnieman v5.1 said:

" @King Saturn said:
" I am curious... how did Dr. Dre not see that Joell Ortiz was a Raw Talent when he had him on Aftermath ? what happened ?  "
He's not all that good to me. He's missing a lot of things, IMO. "
I agree.Joell is nice but he's not really a package rapper.He can't really make good songs without good production behind him. "
well if he was on Aftermath... he would have Dr. Dre, Hi-Tek, Mr. Porter on Production from Aftermath... that alone should be enough to provide some quality production...  "
Dre dropped the Game twice after both his first two albums sold well over platinum.Dre is a good producer but I don't know what he's doing sometimes. "
Dre is probably Bi Polar... 
#296 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" Loon and Black Rob probably. 
Both of them were tight. Mase too. "
Mase pissed me off when he came back as Murda Mase.He was on the remix of an Amerie song talking about puttin guns in people's mouths.
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#297 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" Mase pissed me off when he came back as Murda Mase.He was on the remix of an Amerie song talking about puttin guns in people's mouths. "
Yeah, that kinda pissed me off too. He's not even as tight as he used to be, and coming back as Murda Mase (when he claimed he became a pastor the first time he left the Murda Mase thing alone) just proves he's a damn fake.
#298 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@King Saturn said:
Dre is probably Bi Polar... 
He might be. 
 
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" Mase pissed me off when he came back as Murda Mase.He was on the remix of an Amerie song talking about puttin guns in people's mouths. "
Yeah, that kinda pissed me off too. He's not even as tight as he used to be, and coming back as Murda Mase (when he claimed he became a pastor the first time he left the Murda Mase thing alone) just proves he's a damn fake. "
Have you seen any of his sermons on Youtube? There pretty disgusting.
Moderator
#299 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vance Astro said:
" Have you seen any of his sermons on Youtube? There pretty disgusting. "
 I don't want to. You can't be a pastor and a gangsta rapper at the same time.
#300 Posted by Vance Astro (91120 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Vance Astro said:
" Have you seen any of his sermons on Youtube? There pretty disgusting. "
 I don't want to. You can't be a pastor and a gangsta rapper at the same time. "
I was curious.They are sad but quite funny at the same time.
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