Read from the top down.
I had this debate just a moment ago. The timestamps are from the server of the game we play together. I'm Gogia, the other guy is "dragonballs". Everyone else is basically of no concern. Most of the text is just me and him talking.
I have not edited this at all.
Virtually no profanity is present.
This debate is rather odd and hilarious - a conspiracy theorist keeps trying to tell me we're all doomed, Christianity is a group of crazy bombers, 9/11 was an inside job (well, he didn't say that specifically, but he's said it to me before), China and Russia want to kill the US, China's evil, America's oppressing the middle east for resources and a location to get back at China should things go south, etc. etc....
[2012-11-18 21:06:50] Gogia: George Carlin I also hate :/
[2012-11-18 21:06:51] Vegetaz Girl: That is such an awesome movie.
[2012-11-18 21:06:53] dragonballs: i love that movie!
[2012-11-18 21:07:08] Vegetaz Girl: Gogia, you are just wow... o.o
[2012-11-18 21:07:10] Gogia: Considering he basically insulted most of what I believe in, regularly
[2012-11-18 21:07:11] Brown Sugar: i swore?
[2012-11-18 21:07:18] Vegetaz Girl: Dogma is one of my favorite.
[2012-11-18 21:07:29] Gogia: You said G D, Brown :O
[2012-11-18 21:07:35] Brown Sugar: nd go cry >.>
[2012-11-18 21:07:39] dragonballs: lol, the fact that you take offense at what he said only makes it more funny gogia
[2012-11-18 21:07:45] Gogia: nty, crying's not manly
[2012-11-18 21:07:45] Brown Sugar: ^
[2012-11-18 21:07:47] Brown Sugar: dammit
[2012-11-18 21:07:56] Gogia: ;D
[2012-11-18 21:07:57] Vegetaz Girl: Mhmm.
[2012-11-18 21:08:48] dragonballs: he continually spoke of the type of people that are wrong with this country and if you found offense with that, then i guess you are the problem
[2012-11-18 21:09:09] dragonballs: of course most people will find offense with anything
[2012-11-18 21:09:17] Gogia: So because I believe in God I'm somehow bad?
[2012-11-18 21:09:17] dragonballs: but this man spoke the truth
[2012-11-18 21:09:44] Vegetaz Girl: Buddy Christ :up:
[2012-11-18 21:10:01] Gogia: You're basically trying to go down his road with insulting me for sticking with my beliefs, when really, I didn't even mention you, I just don't like George Carlin. If you really wanna go down this road, I can beat you ten ways to Sunday, Dbs.
[2012-11-18 21:10:12] dragonballs: /me !user! /me puts on his velvet gloves
[2012-11-18 21:10:47] Brown Sugar: /me !user! /me clears the arena
[2012-11-18 21:11:04] Gogia: /me !user! /me sits in his corner, getting pumped up by his trainer
[2012-11-18 21:11:04] Vegetaz Girl: I just don't understand how someone doesn't like George Carlin.
[2012-11-18 21:11:10] Vegetaz Girl: /me !user! /me lovies on Brown.
[2012-11-18 21:11:17] dragonballs: i was not as you say, aiming for you, and i highly doubt you could do anything to 'beat' me. but the question is more right-wing fundies who try to impose their ways on everyone else
[2012-11-18 21:11:32] Vegetaz Girl: Brown you're so sexy. I want to eat you.
[2012-11-18 21:11:54] Brown Sugar: nothankyou
[2012-11-18 21:12:04] Gogia: Don't liberals try to impose their ways on everyone else, in particular, in economics? Just because we do it in different ways, doesn't make it any different at it's core.
[2012-11-18 21:12:13] Vegetaz Girl: You're so mean to me.
[2012-11-18 21:12:29] Vegetaz Girl: Oh is Gogia a conservative? :P
[2012-11-18 21:12:31] Gogia: Politics has always been about enforcing what you believe to be right. It's just that, when what you believe to be right, isn't popular, people try to act faux intellectual by steamrolling over you.
[2012-11-18 21:12:55] Brown Sugar: you try to eat me....
[2012-11-18 21:13:21] Vegetaz Girl: /me !user! /me tries to eat Brown.
[2012-11-18 21:13:22] dragonballs: this is way the system works, but you dont see liberals bombing abortion clinics or protesting funerals for gay soldiers
[2012-11-18 21:13:23] Brown Sugar: I think that's fair game..
[2012-11-18 21:13:31] Vegetaz Girl: I promise you'll love it.
[2012-11-18 21:13:35] dragonballs: i am for the record not a liberal either
[2012-11-18 21:14:17] Vegetaz Girl: Yeah and you also don't see liberals trying to succeed from the union because their president didn't win. :P
[2012-11-18 21:14:34] Gogia: Rofl Texans, that's hilarious :P
[2012-11-18 21:14:38] Brown Sugar: That's what you said last time and all i did was get hurt...
[2012-11-18 21:14:52] dragonballs: nope isreal is doing that for us gogia
[2012-11-18 21:15:03] dragonballs: and believe me there is plenty of hate for muslims
[2012-11-18 21:15:15] dragonballs: misplaced or not, it's there
[2012-11-18 21:16:39] dragonballs: and what fun, the muslims hit us after decades of fiddling around in the middle east for our own benefit
[2012-11-18 21:16:49] dragonballs: it's outrageous they would attack us
[2012-11-18 21:19:10] dragonballs: hmm looks like he was finished with, "durr christians never done nufin, we be the good'
[2012-11-18 21:19:23] supersaiyan5: cant blame them, for all we know the muslims likely got framed by the gov to make it look like they attack the towers
[2012-11-18 21:19:51] Gogia: Actually, I was talking with my family, because my Sister just smashed her finger
[2012-11-18 21:19:59] dragonballs: that is another question entirely and tho i agree, not worth the convo
[2012-11-18 21:20:03] Gogia: So sorry that I have a life beyond the computer ^^ I'll try and revolve my life around you next time
[2012-11-18 21:20:17] dragonballs: that a girl
[2012-11-18 21:20:31] Gogia: Sooo first thing: Actions by extremists do not define the group, Muslim or Christian or Conservative or Liberal.
[2012-11-18 21:20:54] Gogia: Second thing: The core beliefs of a system DO define the group.
[2012-11-18 21:21:05] dragonballs: dude, let me ask you this. all these extremist groups, do you even know why they hate us so much?
[2012-11-18 21:21:20] dragonballs: i mean a man doesnt blow himself up for no reason
[2012-11-18 21:21:23] Gogia: Third thing: How was going to war in the middle east, for our benefit, in your eyes? Not arguing with that point (yet) but just elaborate on it for me.
[2012-11-18 21:21:35] Gogia: Sure they do rofl
[2012-11-18 21:21:51] Gogia: People do crazy stuff in the heat of the moment all the time
[2012-11-18 21:22:09] Gogia: People do crazy stuff over time due to brainwashing or propaganda all the time
[2012-11-18 21:22:59] Gogia: Why do you think the Nazis had a functioning army, that didn't just rebel against Hitler? Propaganda! Works wonders.
[2012-11-18 21:22:59] dragonballs: if you think the iraq war was the first time we got involved in the middle east you are truly misinformed
[2012-11-18 21:23:09] Vegetaz Girl: ^
[2012-11-18 21:23:26] Gogia: I didn't ever say that it was, you are the one apparently misinforming yourself about what I'm saying.
[2012-11-18 21:23:37] dragonballs: and yes, america has the biggest propoganda machine of all time
[2012-11-18 21:23:47] dragonballs: lol...
[2012-11-18 21:24:01] Gogia: Go on
[2012-11-18 21:26:16] dragonballs: so according to you, people are just being crazy, they're crazy all the time right? caught up in the heat of the moment? If your country was being invaded/manipulated by foreign powers, bending you to their will, destroying your people and your family, you would feel no incentive to sacrifice your life to just get back at them once?
[2012-11-18 21:27:09] dragonballs: the middle east is just a battle ground to gain a tactical advantage over russia and china
[2012-11-18 21:27:48] dragonballs: why do you think there are continuous wars, rebellions, why we took out Gadhaffi, why we're instigating war with iran
[2012-11-18 21:28:47] dragonballs: china is moving into the southeast sea, we're trying to block their movements and the middle east is a part of that puzzle
[2012-11-18 21:29:10] dragonballs: it has nothing to do with religion, that is what the ignorant foot soldiers believe
[2012-11-18 21:29:30] dragonballs: it is about resources and the posturing of power
[2012-11-18 21:30:10] dragonballs: 9/11 was blowback of decades of this
[2012-11-18 21:30:42] Brown Sugar: y's it always gotta be about America this America that....lets talk about Canada's problems...
[2012-11-18 21:30:47] dragonballs: and as ss5 said, there is evidence that 9/11 wasn't even commited by muslims
[2012-11-18 21:30:56] Gogia: What evidence?
[2012-11-18 21:31:51] dragonballs: sigh, this is why i didnt want to mention 9/11, yet that is the only thing you respond to
[2012-11-18 21:32:11] Vegetaz Girl: O Canada!
[2012-11-18 21:32:29] Brown Sugar: As side judge i think it's fair dbs wins round 1 and 2
[2012-11-18 21:32:42] Brown Sugar: Mia would you please go with a sign to signify round 3
[2012-11-18 21:33:02] Vegetaz Girl: /me !user! /me does so.
[2012-11-18 21:33:04] Gogia: I was waiting for you to finish what you were saying, actually.
[2012-11-18 21:33:08] Brown Sugar: I would but i left my swimsuit at home :/
[2012-11-18 21:33:21] Gogia: I only asked about evidence for 9/11 because that's the only part you said you even had any evidence for.
[2012-11-18 21:33:23] dragonballs: then, by all means, respond
[2012-11-18 21:33:31] dragonballs: oh god...
[2012-11-18 21:33:34] Gogia: I assume the other parts are blind conspiracies with not much factual evidence.
[2012-11-18 21:33:40] dragonballs: lets leave 9/11 out of this
[2012-11-18 21:33:44] dragonballs: lmao
[2012-11-18 21:33:59] dragonballs: obviously you are ill informed
[2012-11-18 21:34:12] supersaiyan5: you have not seen videos online about 9/11? they even said that the towers could have been dropped to the ground by demolition
[2012-11-18 21:34:13] dragonballs: you're asking me to provide sources for the last 30 years
[2012-11-18 21:34:18] dragonballs: do your own research
[2012-11-18 21:34:19] Gogia: Then INFORM ME. It's your job to convert me to your viewpoint.
[2012-11-18 21:34:21] Vegetaz Girl: Alright I'm going to bed. Night you sweeties. :)
[2012-11-18 21:34:32] Gogia: You're a bad debater lawl
[2012-11-18 21:34:41] dragonballs: good night mia
[2012-11-18 21:34:54] Gogia: You argue that I'm wrong, my beliefs are wrong, everything I believe in is evil, then say "figure it out yourself" instead of defending your wild claims!
[2012-11-18 21:35:05] Brown Sugar: pce
[2012-11-18 21:35:08] dragonballs: dude you make me laugh, im the only side providing actual points
[2012-11-18 21:35:08] Burdock Heiwajima: Night, Mia
[2012-11-18 21:35:14] dragonballs: i never said that
[2012-11-18 21:35:26] dragonballs: now you are misconstruing my statements
[2012-11-18 21:35:39] Brown Sugar: yea...no offense Googlia..but u sucked bad
[2012-11-18 21:35:46] Brown Sugar: I declare dbs winner
[2012-11-18 21:35:54] Gogia: You're right, you said "do your own research", basically the same as "Figure it out yourself". You're being very legalistic, trying to deter me from pointing out how flawed you've been this whole time.
[2012-11-18 21:36:02] dragonballs: i provided a brief analysis on the middle east conflict for the past 30 years and all you can say is 'muh christianity'
[2012-11-18 21:36:11] Brown Sugar: and still the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world !
[2012-11-18 21:36:29] Gogia: Well, considering this all started about Christianity
[2012-11-18 21:36:48] Gogia: :P
[2012-11-18 21:37:04] dragonballs: im providing you with facts and you want me to point out every single one, proving you are in fact mis informed
[2012-11-18 21:37:17] dragonballs: cuz if you were, you would know what im talking about
[2012-11-18 21:37:39] Gogia: You're the one who brought up America's foreign policies, then made wild claims, placing America as the bad guy at every turn, without providing any actual evidence to your claims, besides coincidences about what's happening in the world.
[2012-11-18 21:37:59] Gogia: If I'm misinformed, then inform me; if you actually are debating, inform me of where I'm wrong, so you can prove you're right.
[2012-11-18 21:38:10] Gogia: This is how debates work. You started a debate. If you want to win it, you have to actually play it.
[2012-11-18 21:38:18] Gogia: If you don't want to debate, don't bring these things up.
[2012-11-18 21:38:20] dragonballs: this guy...
[2012-11-18 21:38:30] dragonballs: shall i copy and paste everything i said
[2012-11-18 21:38:47] Brown Sugar: I've actually never seen anyone this wrong in a while
[2012-11-18 21:38:51] Glitch2.0: omg 0_0
[2012-11-18 21:38:52] Brown Sugar: And i live with myself..
[2012-11-18 21:39:15] Gogia: I read everything you said, Dbs. You never gave sources or reasons for your claims besides the fact that it might be advantageous for America to have bases in the middle east.
[2012-11-18 21:39:31] Gogia: For defense against Russia and China, apparently.
[2012-11-18 21:39:38] Gogia: Because we're at war with them so often.
[2012-11-18 21:40:11] dragonballs: haha.... ah man
[2012-11-18 21:40:25] dragonballs: do you know how close to war we are with these powers
[2012-11-18 21:40:31] dragonballs: but yes you are correct
[2012-11-18 21:40:46] dragonballs: i am saying this without any sources
[2012-11-18 21:40:48] Gogia: Not very. War with them would be genocidal on both sides and start a third world war. None of the powers involved are keen on that.
[2012-11-18 21:41:12] dragonballs: neither was world war 2
[2012-11-18 21:41:26] dragonballs: all parties involved wanted nothing of war
[2012-11-18 21:41:28] Gogia: Actually, Hitler was very keen on WW2.
[2012-11-18 21:42:09] dragonballs: what about chinese expansion into southeast asia despite global sovereignty of these nations
[2012-11-18 21:42:30] dragonballs: russia and china are de facto allies
[2012-11-18 21:42:42] dragonballs: and poised against the US in the middle east
[2012-11-18 21:43:19] Gogia: I'm looking up this expansion you keep mentioning.
[2012-11-18 21:43:36] Gogia: How recent is the expansion? Last 10 years, last 20, last 100?
[2012-11-18 21:43:44] Gogia: The expansion you're specifically mentioning.
[2012-11-18 21:43:46] dragonballs: 5
[2012-11-18 21:43:48] Gogia: Not just, in general.
[2012-11-18 21:43:52] Gogia: Last 5 years? Okey dokey.
[2012-11-18 21:44:24] dragonballs: china is becoming a global power and wants to expand
[2012-11-18 21:45:47] dragonballs: please tell me what you find
[2012-11-18 21:49:46] Gogia: In the last 5 years, nothing major has come up besides a dispute with Filipino fishing boats in some shoal area.
[2012-11-18 21:50:21] Gogia: A Vietnamese fishing ship was fired upon a few years ago, killed 9 people, that's the other thing that happened that matters at all.
[2012-11-18 21:50:22] dragonballs: learn how to google
[2012-11-18 21:50:25] dragonballs: www.smh.com.au/business/c...
[2012-11-18 21:50:48] dragonballs: they are also setting up settlements in africa
[2012-11-18 21:51:17] Gogia: I specifically googled "South China Sea Territories". Un-learn how to assume.
[2012-11-18 21:51:25] Gogia: Looking at the link you sent me.
[2012-11-18 21:52:48] dragonballs: i should've been more specific earlier
[2012-11-18 21:53:56] dragonballs: China is investing and sending people into these countries, but by their nature they also send ships and sometimes troops to protect their assets, like any country would do
[2012-11-18 21:55:32] dragonballs: as with russia, relations have cooled, but we're not the best of friends
[2012-11-18 21:56:10] dragonballs: and when you look at what we're doing in the middle east, not that russia and china are innocent either, it would make them concerned
[2012-11-18 21:56:32] dragonballs: it's right on their doorstep
[2012-11-18 21:57:35] dragonballs: not to mention the oil
[2012-11-18 21:58:03] Gogia: Sooo to recap and rebut:
[2012-11-18 21:58:37] dragonballs: and if you ask why we're still in afghanistan, look at this
[2012-11-18 21:58:37] Gogia: 1. China's not doing anything scandalous or mischievious in the South China Sea, really
[2012-11-18 21:58:42] dragonballs: www.nytimes.com/2010/06/1...
[2012-11-18 21:58:50] dragonballs: no
[2012-11-18 21:59:20] Gogia: 2. We didn't go to war in the middle east for oil, that's just regurgitated, inaccurate, flawed assumptions
[2012-11-18 21:59:33] dragonballs: trying is trying to expand just as we are in the middle east. we have been doing it for years, but we finally used military force
[2012-11-18 22:00:00] Gogia: and 3., the article even states, Chinese companies aren't, for the most part, trying to do unethical things, they're just new to the modern corporate game, and so they're roughing it out for a little while, making rules to get it under control. That's what the article you posted, said.
[2012-11-18 22:00:43] Gogia: China's trying to claim territories rightfully within it's borders on the sea; it's disputing it with other countries, but whatever happens happens, they haven't invaded or anything.
[2012-11-18 22:00:43] dragonballs: you're missing the bigger picture
[2012-11-18 22:00:58] Gogia: I am now reading the NY times article; tell me about the bigger picture in the meantime
[2012-11-18 22:01:32] dragonballs: if they are investing in these other regions, they will argue that they have the right to protect these regions against american influence
[2012-11-18 22:02:09] dragonballs: that NY article is why we're staying there for so long and why we left Iraq
[2012-11-18 22:02:57] dragonballs: but yes, this is basically China setting up a hegemony against the US in the pacific, which is central to our control
[2012-11-18 22:03:12] dragonballs: if it continues down that road it will lead to conflict
[2012-11-18 22:04:27] Gogia: What kind of American influence do you think they're fighting against? Trade with China is a major part of the world economy. China wants to trade with other powers. It needs to, to keep it's economy afloat.
[2012-11-18 22:05:37] dragonballs: first of all let me say i agree with your last statement, completely, the market is meant for competition
[2012-11-18 22:06:26] dragonballs: but the fact in this case the economic side ties in with the military border of two great powers, it could cause trouble
[2012-11-18 22:08:42] dragonballs: answering your question, the chinese are coming in to south east pacific companies and offering their business and they are stuck between pick the US or china
[2012-11-18 22:09:39] dragonballs: and the US is the obvious military power in the region, some pick China for various reasons, some pick the US for others
[2012-11-18 22:09:55] dragonballs: in either case it is drawing a line between two great powers
[2012-11-18 22:11:37] dragonballs: I personally dont think the US and China will ever go to war, simply because we need each other financially, there are many hot spots that threaten the peace
[2012-11-18 22:13:22] dragonballs: say something... :P
[2012-11-18 22:17:16] Gogia: Sorry, I was washing dishes
[2012-11-18 22:17:27] Burdock Heiwajima: Good.
[2012-11-18 22:17:37] Gogia: My Sister usually washes the dishes, but since her finger was smushed, I did it tonight.
[2012-11-18 22:17:51] Burdock Heiwajima: Get back to work. You two have been entertaining me and have been teaching me.
[2012-11-18 22:17:58] dragonballs: burd, if you have an opinion please feel free to interject
[2012-11-18 22:18:40] Burdock Heiwajima: Nah, I don't know enough, dbs. We haven't been talking about this for a while and I've been doing other things in the meantime. This is like my research right here.
[2012-11-18 22:19:05] Gogia: So basically what I read from you just now, Dbs, is that I was right, and there is no real threat of the US going to war with China, and thus I'm not sure what you're concerned about.
[2012-11-18 22:19:14] dragonballs: if you rely on your info from talking to me you're not doing it right
[2012-11-18 22:20:04] dragonballs: no Gogia, if you read what I said we are always a few minutes away from war, but the niceties are preventing that
[2012-11-18 22:20:28] Burdock Heiwajima: Wait, who's not doing it right? Gogia or me?
[2012-11-18 22:20:37] dragonballs: I offered my opinion, but that doesnt mean crap once the nukes start flying
[2012-11-18 22:20:52] dragonballs: you burd
[2012-11-18 22:21:10] Gogia: Okey dokey then...
.... Yes, nukes will definitely start flying, very soon! Didn't you guys know China and the US are just waiting to nuke eachother!?!?