The Confederate Flag controversy

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CosmicCupcake

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I don't see how taking down a flag is going to change the fact that there will always be southern pride/freedom. I understand the history behind the flag. Some say it is a symbol of racial division and pride.

What do you think?

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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It will always be a part of American history and people have a right to show the flag, but State Capitol buildings should not have the flag of a confederation that strongly supported slavery and racism waving in their lawn. That's saying that that is what the state supports.

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batarangbamz

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I think it means something different to people depending on their individual history. That being said it should be taken down because it was a battle flag flown by an army that left the Union that these states belong to again. If I had relatives that served in the civil war I wouldn't deny the history because most soldiers fight wether they believe the cause or not but a government building has no business flying it.

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dum529001

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#4  Edited By dum529001

@jayc1324 said:

It will always be a part of American history and people have a right to show the flag, but State Capitol buildings should not have the flag of a confederation that strongly supported slavery and racism waving in their lawn. That's saying that that is what the state supports.

Pretty much.

Would people be cool with us flying the Nazi and ISIS flags on state capital grounds?

The USA and the flag that represents it has done bad stuff but it has also taken steps to correct those bad things and is still making progress towards being better.

The confederate flag represents a part of USA history but it does not represent the nation as it is now or progress towards how people want the country to be.

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Noone301994

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Let them raise their flags, but they'll just get ostracized by society.

Oh, you raised an ISIS flag and your house had bricks thrown through the window? Oops.

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Fallschirmjager

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This is why I'm glad I live in Wisconsin.

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russellmania77

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#8  Edited By russellmania77

My high school flag

I'm Hispanic btw n it never affected me

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Superguy1591

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@cosmiccupcake: Depends on whether you know what you're being proud of--if you're proud that your ancestors thought that black people should be slaves then you should fly that flag as high as you can because that's all your ancestors fought for.

Southern states still have State flags that Southerners can be proud of, why not fly that? Why fly a flag whose history is full of racism?

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Superguy1591

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Let them raise their flags, but they'll just get ostracized by society.

Oh, you raised an ISIS flag and your house had bricks thrown through the window? Oops.

Tyranny of the majority is the most un-American thing around--but what do I expect from someone who is pro-treason?

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Noone301994

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@noone301994 said:

Let them raise their flags, but they'll just get ostracized by society.

Oh, you raised an ISIS flag and your house had bricks thrown through the window? Oops.

Tyranny of the majority is the most un-American thing around--but what do I expect from someone who is pro-treason?

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dngn4774

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@dum529001: I've actually used the ISIS flag in a similar argument to point out no matter pride or bravery change the actual meaning of the flag.

@jayc1324 said:

It will always be a part of American history and people have a right to show the flag, but State Capitol buildings should not have the flag of a confederation that strongly supported slavery and racism waving in their lawn. That's saying that that is what the state supports.

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makhai

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No state should have, on state grounds, flags that represented if not slavery then at least treason and open rebellion.

I personally like Lee's flag. I think it looks cool and when I see it, I think of the man that was, IMO the greatest military mind of his time. However, the flag was created by men with the intention to represent their right to own human beings. Lee abhorred slavery himself but the men he fought for, the men that claimed that flag, did not share in his beliefs. For this reason, I personally choose not to own Lee's flag.

I am not in support of a ban on it though. That seems ridiculous. It just doesn't belong on government property.

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KingTPhil

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Civil war wasn't fought over slavery. It was fought over succession and states' rights.

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makhai

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Civil war wasn't fought over slavery. It was fought over succession and states' rights.

Of which included slavery.

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Superguy1591

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Voicesinmyhead

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Symbols mean different things to different people. Should we ban Swatsikas that were a symbol of Good luck among other things before the nazis got a hold of it. It shouldn't be on government property but people should feel free to buy and fly it on their own private property.

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longbowhunter

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#18  Edited By longbowhunter

I used to keep a confederate flag hanging on my wall. When I was in a band it was given to us by a friend to hang in our jam room. When we moved I took the flag as a momento and kept it on my wall. Until one day the cable guy came by my place and started throwing down some real racist speak. After that I took it down. When I looked at the flag I saw me playing music with my friends. When this guy looked at the flag he saw what he thought was a fellow bigot and wanted to preach his manifesto. Maybe I should have informed him my black girlfriend was the one paying to have the cable installed and the flag was given to me by a Native American man named Wolf.

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DBVSE7

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#19  Edited By DBVSE7

@voicesinmyhead: Why should people be allowed to put something on their property (out in the open mind you) that can be HIGHLY offensive to a huge group a people in society? (Other than selfish inconsiderate reasons.)

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Static Shock

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You already know how I feel about it.
You already know how I feel about it.

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deactivated-5e3b7f04aeb74

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Meh. Lol at thinking taking down a flag, banning them from stores or erasing them from apps will change people's attitudes. People who like and support the flag will still wave it, but now with even more emotion and enthusiasm than ever before. Just last week down in Florida, I saw some pick up truck with a big ass Confederate flag mounted on the rear bumper. Clearly that driver was making a statement. My reaction: No f**ks given.

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Noone301994

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Superguy1591

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@noone301994: It isn't illegal for personal use.

You can wear a Confederate shirt into Congress and I'm sure that some Congressmen will applaud you.

The flag is still legal--the debate is that the State Capital shouldn't fly it on Government property.

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BeaconofStrength

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#24  Edited By BeaconofStrength

I don't support the Confederate flag, but I don't think it should be banned. Though, I don't think it should be raised on any Government buildings.

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Mfundroid

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@longbowhunter: Wow, that's an Academy and Golden Globe award winning film right there.

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Voicesinmyhead

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@dbvse7: When did it become against the law to hurt someones feelings? What you should really ask yourself is why should anyone care about offending you or "a huge group a people"? Freedom of expression buddy. If they want to fly a flag for their "southern pride" then more power to them. As long as its not on government property it shouldn't be a problem.

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Mfundroid

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Why isn't it made illegal since it can be seen as a form of hate speech? I wonder if that's the case here with the Apartheid regime South African flag...

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Noone301994

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#28  Edited By Noone301994
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joshmightbe

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I know this is gonna sound mean but I'm from the north, my side won. Southerners should count themselves lucky that they have been allowed to fly that flag as long as they have, most nations make symbols of rebellion illegal about the second the rebellion ends. And frankly I couldn't possibly care any less about the confederate flag.

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Mandarinestro

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Tyranny of the majority ftw

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DBVSE7

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#31  Edited By DBVSE7

@voicesinmyhead: Confederate Flags and Swatstikas shouldn't be waving around just because people love Cherry Picking history. Hell, same thing could be said about the American Flag.

It's a sad excuse to be naive, ignorant, and inconsiderate at the same time.

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joshmightbe

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@dbvse7: Honestly to me, the South's connection with the confederate flag is like when someone keeps an ex's class ring. They got crushed, truly and utterly crushed and really the Union not taking the flag away from them is the only bit of solace they could hold on to. I believe the only real concession the south got was that the confederate soldiers weren't imprisoned or executed.

That being said its been a couple hundred years and even jilted exes know when to toss out that ring.

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Voicesinmyhead

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@dbvse7: People Cherry Pick anything if it doesn't align with their views on certain subjects. Like Christians with the bible for example. Still doesn't answer why people should care if they offend you..

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longbowhunter

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@mfundroid: HA!! Hollywood, prepare to be confused.

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Chazz85

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#35  Edited By Chazz85

isn't there a guy on the vine with the flag as his pic?

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Billy Batson

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Penguin-Dust

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#37  Edited By Penguin-Dust

Let's not forget that a lot of people are confusing what the "Confederate Flag" actually is. The one most people seem to believe is the Confederate flag is actually the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia and a variation was used for the army of Tennessee. The actual flag of the Confederate States of America looks a lot like the original flag of the the United States.

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ccraft

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Meh. Lol at thinking taking down a flag, banning them from stores or erasing them from apps will change people's attitudes. People who like and support the flag will still wave it, but now with even more emotion and enthusiasm than ever before. Just last week down in Florida, I saw some pick up truck with a big ass Confederate flag mounted on the rear bumper. Clearly that driver was making a statement. My reaction: No f**ks given.

I've seen the same thing, now I'm starting to see more of it. The South will rise again my friend! :P

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Cream_God

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I think it should be brought down, no non official government flag should be flying on a government building. However people are so anti racism nowadays that they are bigots

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dngn4774

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@dbvse7: Honestly to me, the South's connection with the confederate flag is like when someone keeps an ex's class ring. They got crushed, truly and utterly crushed and really the Union not taking the flag away from them is the only bit of solace they could hold on to. I believe the only real concession the south got was that the confederate soldiers weren't imprisoned or executed.

That being said its been a couple hundred years and even jilted exes know when to toss out that ring.

I love how brutal and true this analogy is.

Let's not forget that a lot of people are confusing what the "Confederate Flag" actually is. The one most people seem to believe is the Confederate flag is actually the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia and a variation was used for the army of Tennessee. The actual flag of the Confederate States of America looks a lot like the original flag of the the United States.

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Okay. How is honoring one of the armies that fought to defend slavery any less racist than the flag of government that made slavery on of it's main platforms? Seems irrelevant in hindsight.

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DBVSE7

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#41  Edited By DBVSE7

@voicesinmyhead: Still don't get it.. all you did was make a comparison and continue to think that it's jut about offending.

It's the meanings behind them that have cause the death of others.. Symbols of hatred that have scarred the world with people who still follow they're sick ideology. Only flag that should be up is the American flag. These flags are disrespectful to the ancestors of others.

It does hurt people to see flags like these whether you're blind by ignorance or not.

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Voicesinmyhead

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@dbvse7: The comparison is valid. People Cherry Pick things if it goes against or outright disproves their beliefs/opinions on certain subjects. Including the confederate flag. It's origin is inherently racist via a direct quote by its creator. However some people completely gloss over that because some people see and feel something different when they look at it. Some see the confederate flag representing resistance to federal authority enforced by military aggression.Truthfully I don't care if someone is flying the confederate flag as long as it is not on government property since it is a symbol of rebellion and treason. But just because you find it offensive doesn't mean people shouldn't fly it if they want to. Freedom of expression and all that. Although i will never fly it myself. You are the one who doesn't get it. Nobody's opinion is going to be dictated by your feelings or the feeling of a group of people as a whole. Deal with it.

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joshmightbe

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@ccraft: they failed to rise when we were fighting with canons and muzzle loaders I doubt they'll do much better now that we have predator drones.

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ccraft

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just_sayin

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@jayc1324: The confederate flag does mean racism to a lot of people, but to many southerners it does not have that meaning. It is more associated with southern pride. I think its important to understand what the symbol means to the individual, though I do think it should be taken down from government buildings which serve all the people.

But where is the outrage about actual government policies which discriminate on the basis of color? The federal government has Affirmative Action policies in place which give preferential treatment to some racial groups regarding contracting jobs and educational opportunities. This is racism, pure and simple. It is simply wrong to discriminate on the basis of race. It is wrong to deny a poor white kid from the Appalachian mountains a scholarship while giving it to a rich kid with poorer grades who happens to be another color. It is also wrong to tell a small business that does quality work that they are banned from bidding on certain federal contracts that they have the skills to do the work at the best price because the owner is white. This is immoral and an injustice.

Supporters of reverse discrimination will argue that Affirmative Action policies are needed to correct past injustices. Surely, there have been past injustices, but the people affected today, did not cause them. You can't truly right the injustice of past racism with more racism. Their concerns should be addressed but not by policies that discriminate against someone on the basis of her race.

If you care about ending racism, then be vocal in ending actual policies that are racist and not just the symbolic removing of a flag.

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Cable_Extreme

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Being born and raised in Texas, I can understand some attachments to this flag. It was never really a sign of racism, but more of a sign of unity between the southern states (southern pride). I don't really care what people do with the flag, people saying it is a sign of racism is like saying our current flag is a sign of oppression because blacks use to be oppressed (and still sort of are) by the Union.

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DBVSE7

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@voicesinmyhead: You're comparing religion to American History.. you don't have to believe what people cherry pick in religion.

That whole "deal with it" and "If it doesn't bother me it's not a problem"belief system.. makes you part of the problem America will always have. Its sad.

It doesn't bother me personally either.. but letting people do what they want for the sake of freedom..? You might as well support racism in this case.

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deactivated-5e3b7f04aeb74

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@ccraft: Darth Vader: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

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Skit

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HI honestly don't care either way, I'm from the north and rarely in the south. I get where both sides are coming from, but honestly I don't really see how anything is going to change as a result since just as many are annoyed by it being taken down.