#1 Edited by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright this is going to be long so go grab some nachos or re heat some pizza and get ready to read :)

i plan to rule out all and every outcome of this battle using only canon feats and statistics

Goku vs. superman

Lets start with raw strength

Superman

this scan shows superman pushing 200 Quintilian tons.

this is pretty straight forward not much to say about it

good thing to this means i wont have to do any math :)

Son Goku

here we have goku in SS4 lifting an entire city with relative difficulty but it is clearly not his maximum

ok since we gave superman the benefit of the doubt with the planet thing we will do the same for goku

lets say this city weighs about as much as the island of Manhattan sounds about right its a large city.

math time

long the Equator, once around the world is approximately 40,000 kilometers. Since 5 miles equals about 8 km, in miles this would be about 25, 400.

6.6 Sextillion tons= 25,400 length

Manhattan is 13 miles in length

1954 Manhattans fit the length of earth so

6.6 sextillion/1954 = 3070624360286 tons

so lets say

3080000000000 tons

this is a screen shot of goku pushing a building back into place

the WTC weighed about 500,000 tons this building is obviously nowhere near the size of even one of the buildings

but lets be nice and say this building weighs as much as one tower that's 250,000 tons

goku does not appear to be straining at all so this is not his maximum

Lets compare

6.600000000000000000000 tons>3080000000000 tons

Well superman takes this round but tune in tomorrow for...

THE BATTLE OF SPEED

superman: 1

Goku:0

the current superman lifts even more so i am going to compare the current supes

#2 Edited by GunGunW (996 posts) - - Show Bio

The one thing about the debate that really isn't debatable is lifting strength. You can debate who can win the fight, but no one can deny Superman is physically stronger.

Planet>City.

#3 Edited by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@gungunw: this was part one im watching the walking dead so im gunna finish tomorrow

#4 Posted by pooty (10796 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman: that is all star superman who is not mainstream superman. are you basing this off of All-star superman or Current Superman or Pre-52. the reason I ask is because there are multiple versions of superman and for clarity you should say which version you are using.

#5 Posted by XLR87T3 (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

Does this make normal Superman in the league similar in strength to Goku? 3 trillion tons is a lot.

#6 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: true but superman benched the earth im just saying 200 quin trillion is a good number but it does downplay superman's strength your right.

#7 Edited by Bushwhacker_ (576 posts) - - Show Bio

-shakes head- Really?...

#8 Posted by pooty (10796 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: true but superman benched the earth im just saying 200 quin trillion is a good number but it does downplay superman's strength your right.

which superman benched the earth? Current or Pre-52? Do you have the scan. I'm out of the loop with superman

#9 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by pooty (10796 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: i posted the scan

Thanks. that is current superman. and he is asking for more. so far(until a DBZ fan post a counter argument) Superman is winning the strength contest.

#11 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: well ya most people even DBZ fans are at peace with this

#12 Posted by pooty (10796 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: well ya most people even DBZ fans are at peace with this

it's the energy projection, durability, flight speed, combat speed, H2H skill contest that will be interesting. I will be watching.

#13 Edited by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

ya im going to do speed tomorrow it should be good

im going to cover fight speed as well perhaps

#14 Posted by pooty (10796 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman: would you be willing to challenge a Viner. you would defend superman and he would debate Goku? I have a few people in mind.

#15 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: ahhhhhhh i do not know maybe after im done

#16 Edited by FiMFTW (687 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman: "i plan to rule out all and every outcome of this battle using only canon feats and statistics"

He says, only to go on to use screens from GT. *Facepalm*

#17 Posted by AnyWhichWayButUp (760 posts) - - Show Bio

Shouldn't we wait to see what god Goku does?

#18 Edited by JokerTheShining (176 posts) - - Show Bio

Son Goku

here we have goku in SS4 lifting an entire city with relative difficulty but it is clearly not his maximum

SS4 Goku is canon? That's just not true.

  1. The creator didn't wrote the GT series.
  2. The strength level varies so much from episode to episode, there're no credibility on SS4's power level. It's why you often hear fans damning the series.
  3. If you're a DBZ fan you have to accept that the GT series is not canon, because MOST fans do.

#19 Posted by Strigidae_23 (2902 posts) - - Show Bio

That scan is not canon Superman. Its All Star Superman whose powers are heavily implied to be different.

#20 Posted by JediXMan (29514 posts) - - Show Bio

That scan is not canon Superman. Its All Star Superman whose powers are heavily implied to be different.

His last picture was from the New 52, I believe. And that was a greater feat of strength.

#21 Edited by FalconPuuunch (942 posts) - - Show Bio

@fimftw said:

@innersuperman: "i plan to rule out all and every outcome of this battle using only canon feats and statistics"

He says, only to go on to use screens from GT. *Facepalm*

Ouch.

#22 Edited by Lvenger (18226 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman: Words of advice if you're really planning to do this

  1. Stick to one version of Superman. I'd suggest Pre Flashpoint since you're mixing All Star and New 52 versions of feats. Apply that to the other criteria you have planned too.
  2. Same for Goku. I wouldn't use GT feats since Toriyama didn't write GT. Just stick with the original manga and anime feats.
  3. Don't make this out to be the end all analysis. There are going to be people who disagree with you and will point out your flaws. Just like DeathBattle's verdict has been debunked pretty handily.
  4. Don't let your love for Superman get in the way of the evidence. If the evidence shows Goku surpasses Superman in an area, you have to go with it. Don't twist the facts to your view as to who you prefer.
  5. Try not to set out to prove that Superman is better than Goku. Instead, come into this with an objective mindset judging only by feats and arguments which character should win.
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#23 Posted by Lvenger (18226 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@innersuperman said:

@pooty: well ya most people even DBZ fans are at peace with this

it's the energy projection, durability, flight speed, combat speed, H2H skill contest that will be interesting. I will be watching.

I'd say that the DBZ crew are better fighters (more skilled) than Superman. I'm not sure how good Superman's energy projection is so I'll give them that too (a lot of DBZ characters are planet busters). Speed and strength clearly go to Superman. Although they've started making new movies. In a few years things might change, but for now I'll say Superman wins it.

#25 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: @lvenger: @jokertheshining:

ya at first i was thinking all star but nahhhh imma just do new 52

im going to be fair i was so far although superman is a more powerful hero and no amount of twisting can change that im just showing the facts on both sides. its just goku has like no impressive feats seriously post some or send them to me in a link or something.

thats the thing ss3 goku would get blown away in the feat department im trying to make it both of their best feats.

#26 Posted by Lvenger (18226 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman: Trust me stick with Pre Flashpoint. You have far more feats to call upon like 20 years worth of feats whereas with the New 52 you only have 1 year+. Pre Flashpoint is the better way of judging Superman vs Goku IMO since he's the best catalogued version of Superman featwise that provides the fairest match up for Goku. I'd strongly advise you to focus on Pre Flashpoint Superman for the fairest judgement.

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#27 Edited by JokerTheShining (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman said:

@jedixman: @lvenger: @jokertheshining:

ya at first i was thinking all star but nahhhh imma just do new 52

im going to be fair i was so far although superman is a more powerful hero and no amount of twisting can change that im just showing the facts on both sides. its just goku has like no impressive feats seriously post some or send them to me in a link or something.

thats the thing ss3 goku would get blown away in the feat department im trying to make it both of their best feats.

I understand your effort to keeping it fair. But to legitimize the thread, and the threads that follow, I honestly think both DC fan and DBZ fan will want you to use the lesser SS3 Goku.

Tell you what, if anyone says "why aren't you using SS4 Goku?" I'm going to repost what I said earlier to them. I know there'll be users that're going to complain.

However, must remember, using Canon will only up the status for this series.

And you can count on me to follow this series. When new visitor brings up SS4, I'll be there to provide the info I listed.

I've grown to have a fetish with Superman vs Goku topics. They look good together in a versus battle.

#28 Posted by pooty (10796 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@innersuperman said:

@pooty: well ya most people even DBZ fans are at peace with this

it's the energy projection, durability, flight speed, combat speed, H2H skill contest that will be interesting. I will be watching.

I'd say that the DBZ crew are better fighters (more skilled) than Superman. I'm not sure how good Superman's energy projection is so I'll give them that too (a lot of DBZ characters are planet busters). Speed and strength clearly go to Superman. Although they've started making new movies. In a few years things might change, but for now I'll say Superman wins it.

I see what you're saying. I'm most concerned with durability. I stopped watching DBZ after the "Cell Saga" so i'm wondering what feats they have. as far as travel speed, many say DBZ are WAY above light speed. IDK. and their combat speed seems good too. i'll be checking on this thread to see how it turns out.

#29 Posted by LeeSensei (385 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@leesensei said:

@pooty said:

@innersuperman said:

@pooty: well ya most people even DBZ fans are at peace with this

it's the energy projection, durability, flight speed, combat speed, H2H skill contest that will be interesting. I will be watching.

I'd say that the DBZ crew are better fighters (more skilled) than Superman. I'm not sure how good Superman's energy projection is so I'll give them that too (a lot of DBZ characters are planet busters). Speed and strength clearly go to Superman. Although they've started making new movies. In a few years things might change, but for now I'll say Superman wins it.

I see what you're saying. I'm most concerned with durability. I stopped watching DBZ after the "Cell Saga" so i'm wondering what feats they have. as far as travel speed, many say DBZ are WAY above light speed. IDK. and their combat speed seems good too. i'll be checking on this thread to see how it turns out.

Speed and durability are a tricky issue with Dragon Ball because it's pretty inconsistent. Freeza has planet level durability, but Goku (Who's more powerful) says that a planet buster would kill him. As far as travelling speed goes... it's still hard to say. Some people can reasonably power scale the Saiyans to FTL levels, but there's no clear Point A to Point B example of it. Combat speed is tricky too. It's very vague, but the Saiyans can reasonably be power scaled to FTL levels. However, the only one in the DBZ universe that has MFTL speed is Whis (a character from the movie this year).

I don't know all of Superman's feats, but I'm fairly sure he's massively faster than light and is more durable than a planet so he should be able to take this.

#30 Edited by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

As a massive fan of both characters, this is interesting to see but truthfully, the only advantage Goku will have over Superman is pure combat speed and skill. Superman severely outclasses him in durability, strength, raw speed and power - not including the Spirit Bomb as it isn't really under his own power.

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#31 Posted by Lvenger (18226 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman said:

@jedixman: @lvenger: @jokertheshining:

ya at first i was thinking all star but nahhhh imma just do new 52

im going to be fair i was so far although superman is a more powerful hero and no amount of twisting can change that im just showing the facts on both sides. its just goku has like no impressive feats seriously post some or send them to me in a link or something.

thats the thing ss3 goku would get blown away in the feat department im trying to make it both of their best feats.

I understand your effort to keeping it fair. But to legitimize the thread, and the threads that follow, I honestly think both DC fan and DBZ fan will want you to use the lesser SS3 Goku.

Tell you what, if anyone says "why aren't you using SS4 Goku?" I'm going to repost what I said earlier to them. I know there'll be users that're going to complain.

However, must remember, using Canon will only up the status for this series.

And you can count on me to follow this series. When new visitor brings up SS4, I'll be there to provide the info I listed.

I've grown to have a fetish with Superman vs Goku topics. They look good together in a versus battle.

Yeah I agree with this. Only using the accepted as canon version of Goku would legitimise this thread greatly. As would Pre Flashpoint Superman. Those 2 are the fairest versions to pit against each other.

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#32 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

you are right i will use pre flashpoint it only makes sense.

#33 Edited by deadpoolrules (4683 posts) - - Show Bio

The funny thing is,strenght needs speed to variate,so it actually depends on who's faster.You cannot take both things apart and analize them since Force=Mass x Acceleration.

Just saying =P

#34 Edited by JokerTheShining (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Yeah I agree with this. Only using the accepted as canon version of Goku would legitimise this thread greatly. As would Pre Flashpoint Superman. Those 2 are the fairest versions to pit against each other.

Yep, that's the perfect pairing. The speed comparison thread is in the works.

#35 Edited by deadpoolrules (4683 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me put it in other way,if Goku can lift a city while in a low acceleration or standing still and Supes can lift 200 quintilians while standing still,that means that Goku can lift more than Supes.When Clark lifted the planet,he was accelerating,so if we put Goku and Supes in their maximum acceleration,considering they weigh the same,it will depend on who's faster,and since Goku has the strenght advantage,if they accelerate close values(Supes>Goku;Supes=Goku),Goku will be stronger,but if Supes accelerate more,he will have the stronger hit.

#36 Posted by Pyrogram (35035 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by GhostofOnyx (656 posts) - - Show Bio

The funny thing is,strenght needs speed to variate,so it actually depends on who's faster.You cannot take both things apart and analize them since Force=Mass x Acceleration.

Just saying =P

Nice use of Newton's second law :D

#38 Edited by MikeHezekiah (28 posts) - - Show Bio

<p>I thought superman was stronger? I honestly think superman would win in a race anyway, just because of the fact that he travelled to the sun and back in minutes.....never heard goku could travel at that speed. But then again, I hardly know anything about goku....feel free to prove me wrong :)</p>

#39 Edited by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadpoolrules:

we are trying to measure strength just raw not with any outside factors such as speed however i see what you mean it makes sense.

#40 Edited by deadpoolrules (4683 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean,im overall,it should depend on who can hit the other faster.Once Goku was so fast he punched an enemy half a planet =P

#41 Edited by Lvenger (18226 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean,im overall,it should depend on who can hit the other faster.Once Goku was so fast he punched an enemy half a planet =P

When has he ever done that? Only Battle of the Gods has ever provided us with a feat like that. Superman has far more consistent moon busting feats as well as being able to hit hard enough to create sonic booms, knock enemies into orbit and hit WW from the sun to Earth. That dwarfs any striking feat Goku has ever accomplished I get what you're saying about striking power but in that regard, Superman has Goku outclassed too.

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#42 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7686 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is pretty much the strongest character in all of comics.