Juggernaut is known to be Unstoppable and Wolverine is known to be Unbreakable. But who can test this Theory or does these abilities that defines them goes unchallenged.
You're more likely to stop the Juggernaut. I can only think of 2 instances where Wolverine's adamantium has been broken, but I can think of dozens of times that Juggy has been defeated.
Lets see. Adamantium has been broken a few times in mainstream Marvel before, except from what I can remember all those times were secondary adamantium, or unspecified at the time, but later specified to be secondary and or not really examples of some one breaking adamantium per say but someone reassembling adamantium though powerful molecular manipulation or reality warping. Well that or alt reality examples like people have already mentioned. Juggernaut has been stopped/pushed back, I can think of two times off the top of my head, but I think there is one more, I just can't recall. Once was with a sick Thor who used the "godblast" on Juggernaut and the second was War Hulk (as in amped by Apocalypse Hulk) who was pushed a fair while before stopping Juggernaut then throwing him off to the side. My guess would be dependent on circumstance. The longer and thinner an adamantium object, the easier to break it. Thor did manage to dent a small can of adamantium before (he claimed he was using his full strength) so there's that too. Interesting question.
Hulk has, technically broken adamantium before via ripping Wolverine in half, but I do not think he has stopped Juggernaut before.
seriously correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that an in alternate universe where Admantium wasn't as strong.
@KainScion: IIRC I think why he was able to rip him in half was because it didn't cover areas like joints or certain parts that needed to bend. That was so long ago though I could be wrong.
Adamantium is made out of atoms, right? It can be broken.
Juggernaut's skin is less likely to break than adamantium because his skin isn't made out of atoms. But stopping Juggernaut? Easier than breaking his skin. Just take the ground away from him so he doesn't have leverage to gain more momentum. He was pushed back by the God Blast a few inches because the ground was getting soft causing Juggernaut's feet to not grip the ground. So yeah....
@Enemybird: I'm sure Morpheus is aware of that. What he was trying to say was that Juggernaut isn't completely unstoppable, even if special circumstances are required.
@Enemybird: I'm sure Morpheus is aware of that. What he was trying to say was that Juggernaut isn't completely unstoppable, even if special circumstances are required.
Fair enough, I'm a little confused by the thesis in the OP. Does he mean which is more likely to happen in continuity or which is more likely to give if the forces collide. An example being if whether Juggernaut posses the ability to run through a Adamantium wall or something.
@Enemybird: @Static Shock: Juggernaut is virtually unstoppable. Virtually, not absolutely unstoppable. Virtually by logic, virtually by express writer declaration.
I mean the fight with Thor where Juggernaut was pushed back. I am sort of a stickler for accuracy, so terms like nothing I only apply when literal, as opposed to informally, so its extremely hard for almost anything to actually do nothing, things inherently do things, no matter how insignificant. So when the objective dialogue box says that the character feels himself being pushed backwards, I apologize, I do not recognize that as nothing. Superficial aka "nothing" as far as injury, sure thats given. Couple of years ago was a Juggernaut fan who started trolling people who only read comics from respect threads and scans or don't have critical thinking skills, and convinced a bunch of people that Thor's attack above only pushed Juggernaut back because the "ground gave way" even though that happens after this page after he is pushed backwards and even after direct writer and editor explanation that Juggernaut was pushed back, after a bunch of fans kept asking, and now another urban legend up there with Panther's Armbar and Thor's Warrior Madness is born.
@Enemybird: What he's asking is whether or not Juggernaut is truly unstoppable and whether or not Wolverine's adamantium bones can be broken.
In continuity, it's happened. War Hulk vs. Juggernaut is one example. S'ym (a magical creature with Class 100+ strength) was able to break Wolverine's adamantium claws with ease. All he did was snap a claw off with his fingers, and he later used it as a projectile against Colossus, lodging it in his steel skin. This is another example
@Enemybird: @Static Shock: Juggernaut is virtually unstoppable. Virtually, not absolutely unstoppable. Virtually by logic, virtually by express writer declaration.
I mean the fight with Thor where Juggernaut was pushed back. I am sort of a stickler for accuracy, so terms like nothing I only apply when literal, as opposed to informally, so its extremely hard for almost anything to actually do nothing, things inherently do things, no matter how insignificant. So when the objective dialogue box says that the character feels himself being pushed backwards, I apologize, I do not recognize that as nothing. Superficial aka "nothing" as far as injury, sure thats given. Couple of years ago was a Juggernaut fan who started trolling people who only read comics from respect threads and scans or don't have critical thinking skills, and convinced a bunch of people that Thor's attack above only pushed Juggernaut back because the "ground gave way" even though that happens after this page after he is pushed backwards and even after direct writer and editor explanation that Juggernaut was pushed back, after a bunch of fans kept asking, and now another urban legend up there with Panther's Armbar and Thor's Warrior Madness is born.
If one steps on the ground gravity will pull that persons weight onto that said ground. If there is an opposing force greater or say equal to the force resisting the opposed, it is only logical that the ground should "give in". Now the God blast is not in connection with the ground, but Juggernaut's feet is. When Juggernaut resist, he is using his strength to pull forward and with that strength (incalculable) pushes harder, the ground will crack, crumble and eventually shatter. I would respectfully consider that critical thinking.
If one steps on the ground gravity will pull that persons weight onto that said ground. If there is an opposing force greater or say equal to the force resisting the opposed, it is only logical that the ground should "give in". Now the God blast is not in connection with the ground, but Juggernaut's feet is. When Juggernaut resist, he is using his strength to pull forward and with that strength (incalculable) pushes harder, the ground will crack, crumble and eventually shatter. I would respectfully consider that critical thinking.
Ground could give in, rather than it should give in I think would be the better phrasing especially knowing that Juggernaut's enchantment affects gravity in unknown and purposefully ambiguous ways, so trying to apply logic here in the realms of what we do know as opposed to what we are yet to know and don't, can only really give speculation, in this example, so logic leads to ambiguity. We can reason though that because Juggernaut was being pushed back, before the ground broke way, that he was you know? Pushed back before the ground broke way, not that the ground didn't break, or that what you said doesn't apply, because it could, and did, especially if Juggernaut persisted in trying to push back. The two things are not mutually exclusive. So I would also consider what you said critical thinking sure. What we don't have to reason is writer intent, and writer intent (Tom DeFalco and PAD) have confirmed that their writing intended to be examples of Juggernaut being pushed back so I think the question here becomes one of creative critique and criticism, approval or so on.
Hulk has, technically broken adamantium before via ripping Wolverine in half, but I do not think he has stopped Juggernaut before.
I could have sworn wolverine has beaten the hulk before? i'll have to google and see if i can find the scans and i don't know if its cannon. i've also heard it on this website that wolverine has effected hulk.
anyways I don't know if juggernaut is that strong. I have never seen a comic where wolverine and Juggs faught, but even if juggs can't break the adamantium he could still fry wolverines brain and knock him out with electricity or that power thing he does, but as far as him breaking the adamantium is unknown to me.
Nm I couldn't find nothin on google of wolverine beating hulk. every scan i see is hulk beating the crap out of wolverine... i though i saw a scan of wolve beating hulk, but i could be wrong.
If one steps on the ground gravity will pull that persons weight onto that said ground. If there is an opposing force greater or say equal to the force resisting the opposed, it is only logical that the ground should "give in". Now the God blast is not in connection with the ground, but Juggernaut's feet is. When Juggernaut resist, he is using his strength to pull forward and with that strength (incalculable) pushes harder, the ground will crack, crumble and eventually shatter. I would respectfully consider that critical thinking.
Ground could give in, rather than it should give in I think would be the better phrasing especially knowing that Juggernaut's enchantment affects gravity in unknown and purposefully ambiguous ways, so trying to apply logic here in the realms of what we do know as opposed to what we are yet to know and don't, can only really give speculation, in this example, so logic leads to ambiguity. We can reason though that because Juggernaut was being pushed back, before the ground broke way, that he was you know? Pushed back before the ground broke way, not that the ground didn't break, or that what you said doesn't apply, because it could, and did, especially if Juggernaut persisted in trying to push back. The two things are not mutually exclusive. So I would also consider what you said critical thinking sure. What we don't have to reason is writer intent, and writer intent (Tom DeFalco and PAD) have confirmed that their writing intended to be examples of Juggernaut being pushed back so I think the question here becomes one of creative critique and criticism, approval or so on.
Perhaps Juggernaut does have ambiguous affects on gravity to keep him at his post, but for this instant, he did not. -And yes, the writers did intended that to be, but we have to keep in mind here that that was the God Blast and by that effect affects the surrounding area as soon as the blast is fired. The writers did too add the narration that Juggernaut was feeling vertigo as soon as the blast was fired. Why was that? Ground shaking? Surrounding area going unstable? When the ground loosens via hard tremors prior to the affect of the blast, concludes that Juggernaut was already lifted before the the blast had pushed him. Think of it like this. If you were standing on the ground, and a large water hose sprays you with water, you can resist it because you are still planted on the ground. Now convert that scenario to standing on a skate board while the wheels are on the ground and that same water hose sprays you; You move backwards.
It's no doubt that Juggernaut was being pushed back. It's the question as of how he was being pushed back. He didn't have any leverage. He was either lifted up by the combination of tremors and the force of the blast or that the ground shook enough to cause loose pebbles to make Juggernaut roll back. We both know that he isn't absolutely unstoppable because he can be lifted and BFRed. Happens a lot. But the important thing is that we know he can be pushed/pulled when he is already suspended off the ground.
@TERMINATOR1234: This isn't what you're looking for, but it IS technically Wolverine and Juggernaut fighting.
And on topic: It depends on which Juggernaut exactly we're talking about. If it's Kuurth-Juggernaut, then it's a draw. Regular Juggernaut, and he'll be stopped before Adamantium breaks.
in this issue a future wolverine breaks his claw fighting Death's head 2 so adamantiumhas been broken altough I am unsure of what universe this story takes place in since I only have this one issue.
@TERMINATOR1234: This isn't what you're looking for, but it IS technically Wolverine and Juggernaut fighting.
And on topic: It depends on which Juggernaut exactly we're talking about. If it's Kuurth-Juggernaut, then it's a draw. Regular Juggernaut, and he'll be stopped before Adamantium breaks.
WOW Thanks for the info. Well like i said even if the adamantium didn't break. Juggernaut would knock wolverine into a dizzy mode without a doubt. wolverine has a brain and a heart. but of course its irrelevant this this topic...lol but anyways like i said i have no idea if juggs could break the adamantium.
@TERMINATOR1234: This isn't what you're looking for, but it IS technically Wolverine and Juggernaut fighting.
And on topic: It depends on which Juggernaut exactly we're talking about. If it's Kuurth-Juggernaut, then it's a draw. Regular Juggernaut, and he'll be stopped before Adamantium breaks.
Aside that that was Zombieverse, Juggernaut wasn't really Juggernaut. He was zombiefied and hence lost alot of his Juggernaut powers. I take it that the comic suggested that that was depowered Cain Marko during his Excalibur stage of depowerment because Cyttorak took his powers for becoming a good guy and furthermore Cain threw the Gem of Cyttorak in space. So yes, it was possible to kill Cain during this stage of event. Remember Cain as depowered was also capable of being bruised and battered when he fought King Hyprion in Thunderbolts. It's no wonder what the Power Cosmics could do to an already depowered Juggernaut.
Regular Juggernaut is more powerful than Kuurth btw with the exception that regular Juggernaut uses some morals as opposed with Kurrth, who doesn't use morals at all. 8Th Day Juggernaut for example is a full powered and stabled conditioned mind to be above Kuurth in many ways.
As for Adamantium?
Adamantium is a molecular bonded material. It's made out of matter therefore it can bend/break by a force more powerful, denser and more durable. That is such as the Juggernaut's skin. We already know that Wolverine has battled with Juggernaut many times with his team against the Juggernaut, but Juggernaut hasn't really even grappled with Wolverine... He just swats Wolverine away everytime he has the chance to and continues fighting the rest of the team. However, aside from the fact that Wolverine helps battle Juggernaut with his team, has his claws ever so much as scratched Juggernaut's flesh? No. Given the chance Juggernaut were to able grab a hold of Wolverine, instead of swatting him away, he would most definitely warp if not break Wolverine's adamantium a part. -That is given the chance.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: In regards to the Juggernaut from the zombiverse. Yes. I know. I posted that merely as a joke because he was looking for a scan of Wolverine fighting Juggernaut. That IS technically a fight between the two, even if one was depowered and both were in an alternate universe.
As for Kuurth, Regular Juggernaut maybe more powerful, but the question of the thread is, as I understand it, 'which is more likely to happen: Stopping Juggernaut, or breaking Adamantium'. Unlike Kuurth, Juggernaut can be stopped by redirecting his force, slowing him down, or simply removing the Earth from beneath him. NOTHING was shown to stop Kuurth before Juggernaut's powers were taken away. Even when the ground was removed, he kept walking as it if wasn't. So Kuurth-Juggernaut is truly unstoppable, as far as stopping his movement goes.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: In regards to the Juggernaut from the zombiverse. Yes. I know. I posted that merely as a joke because he was looking for a scan of Wolverine fighting Juggernaut. That IS technically a fight between the two, even if one was depowered and both were in an alternate universe.
As for Kuurth, Regular Juggernaut maybe more powerful, but the question of the thread is, as I understand it, 'which is more likely to happen: Stopping Juggernaut, or breaking Adamantium'. Unlike Kuurth, Juggernaut can be stopped by redirecting his force, slowing him down, or simply removing the Earth from beneath him. NOTHING was shown to stop Kuurth before Juggernaut's powers were taken away. Even when the ground was removed, he kept walking as it if wasn't. So Kuurth-Juggernaut is truly unstoppable, as far as stopping his movement goes.
That's because Kuurth had no morals. The character was completely bloodlusted which was the point of his character accessing more power from Cyttorak. But when regular Juggernaut is bloodlusted, he's even more powerful than Kuurth by far and beyond. Trion Juggernaut is basically Cain Marko as the regular Juggernaut with no morals. He was mindless, just as with Kuurth. He can walk on air and space, and he couldn't be teleported or BFRed like Kuurth. Only difference is; he was much more powerful than Kuurth punching realities in the face to shattering them. So that concludes, that the reason why normal Juggernaut is more likely to be stopped is because he had morals in his way of his potential.
Perhaps Juggernaut does have ambiguous affects on gravity to keep him at his post, but for this instant, he did not. -
He does not here because? Plus I do not myself perhaps. Juggernaut's powers have been explained as affecting gravity, like for example when he swims, or is being held up by telekinesis. Character has history of moving forward when he shouldn't, shouldn't due to how we understand gravity as it stands, thus why the character falls under the mystical side of Marvel.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:
The writers did too add the narration that Juggernaut was feeling vertigo as soon as the blast was fired. Why was that? Ground shaking? Surrounding area going unstable? When the ground loosens via hard tremors prior to the affect of the blast, concludes that Juggernaut was already lifted before the the blast had pushed him. Think of it like this. If you were standing on the ground, and a large water hose sprays you with water, you can resist it because you are still planted on the ground. Now convert that scenario to standing on a skate board while the wheels are on the ground and that same water hose sprays you; You move backwards.
Could be lots of reasons why he was feeling vertigo. Dodgy chicken pasta mixed with cold tuna pizza, he could have Bieber Fever, maybe he woke up next to Hercules and was recalling that moment. Maybe the feeling of being stopped and pushed back is so foreign to him it made him feel vertigo from that. One time Beast merely looked at Juggernaut and it freaked him out. Juggernaut might get such reactions and feelings often So your conclusion is one of several possible conclusions, all as reasonable and likely and your one seems designed, no offense and I could be wrong, just for the sake of filling in what one would need based on what we do not know, and could speculate, in order to support the idea that Juggernaut was only pushed back because of some external factor and not eternal factor, and hey, that's fine by me, its just that you won't be able to change my mind with mutually applicable arguments or without writer intent/clarification. Your analogy/scenario for example, doesn't work for me, because I have a magic skateboard that affects gravity rather than be subject to it and I don't move back. Wait thats not a magical water hose that you have filled with godly energies is it? First thats gross, and sounds like something that Hercules says to women at bars about his little mace and secondly did the god of our reality fly down and confirm that I moved backwards even though my magic skateboard almost always prevents me from moving backwards?
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:
We both know that he isn't absolutely unstoppable because he can be lifted and BFRed. Happens a lot. But the important thing is that we know he can be pushed/pulled when he is already suspended off the ground.
Then we may potentially disagree that Juggernaut isn't absolutely unstoppable even when he does have traction and we may disagree on how Juggernaut actually requires traction, as I believe even with traction he can be stopped, in extremely rare situations, requiring rare and specific circumstance, and I believe in the situation with Thor as in with the situation with Hulk he had traction, and that he has had traction in many situations that challenge what we know of gravity (this part is a bit inconsistent character depiction wise) otherwise I agree with you here.
It seems stupid that you guys are trying to use physics to explain the magical rule of 'unstoppable'....
I think the most sensible answer would be that Juggernaut would hit this adamantium barrier, and his sheer force of magic would push through the adamantium, essentially phasing him through.... the juggernaut remains unstoppable and adamantium unbroken (of course this theory has never been seen in comics)
It seems stupid that you guys are trying to use physics to explain the magical rule of 'unstoppable'....
I think the most sensible answer would be that Juggernaut would hit this adamantium barrier, and his sheer force of magic would push through the adamantium, essentially phasing him through.... the juggernaut remains unstoppable and adamantium unbroken (of course this theory has never been seen in comics)
So its "stupid" to speculate what effects Juggernaut's powers have on gravity based on a few principles in physics. But its completely sensible to hypothesize ( and I use that term loosely) that juggernaut would phase through an adamantium barrier...Something that you even admit as never been seen before.
Juggernaut can be redirected or slowed down but never completely stopped with physical force. War Hulk was aided by celestial tech....
He was stopped by physical force which was being augmented by Celestial technology, but that clarification is, in itself, irrelevant. Neither the OP nor you specified that no augmentations were permitted for your statement to be applicable. You simply made an absolute statement regarding Cain which is incorrect.
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