So... the Republicans shut down the government!

@citizenbane said:

This

The Constitution also gives us the right to overthrow the Government if its crap. Not that we will ever do it this day and age.

Pretty much. Both Parties are so corrupt. Look how we vote on presidents these days. Our Goverment is a Monarchy now. Every President having connections or ties the the last one of their respective party. like Hillarly running with Obama and plans to run for next Election. Al Gore trying to run. Bush Jr. and Bush Sr. Its so politically inbred at this point.

@ willpayton, on of course not, you clearly support obama. But fact remains hes as much to blame as anyone, for one hes the president, two he flat out said he has no intention of negotiating days ago while blaming the republicans. Theyre making offers he doesnt want to hear them. As i said earlier, past presidents and congress have had squabbles yet never this bad to shutting down the government..go figure.

Isaac, and curious where are you getting these numbes from exactly? Msnbc?besides, congress has always had a good vs bad approval rating but theyre not the president now are they? As others have said, obama aint budging so why should congress? He said hes not willing to negoiate meaning its his way or the highway...

As for lincoln, he.never wanted to alter the constitution for the worse and only freed the slaves but yeah, so controversial...seriously youre comparing obama to lincoln ?seriously

Actually, this is the 18th government shutdown owing to political disputes till date. It happened 5 times during Carter's presidency and eight times during Reagan's. Go figure.

@citizenbane: i was referring to more recent presidents...not ever historically thats why i said, this bad in a while. so in other words, in recent times the last 3 times past 35years or so weve had 3 government shutdowns, with two of three being far left democrats, and one righty. Hmmmm

@vaeternus: I don't think you're actually familiar with the history of shutdowns. When you talk about the past 35 years or so, you're covering basically every US government shutdown in history, not "the last 3 times". They're a relatively recent political phenomenon in that sense. The first ever shutdown was 37 years ago, under Gerald Ford, a Republican president. There are only 6 presidents who have presided over shutdowns: in order, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton and Obama. That is a 3-3 split across party lines. On the other hand, there's a 10-8 split towards the Republicans as far as number of shutdowns go.

@citizenbane: I'm quite familar but as I said I was referring to more recent, not historically since you're talking overall. Yes, but did you know that while Carter and Reagan had multiple shutdowns, neither lasted as much as when Clinton was in.

And record wise(assuming this one doesn't break it) longest shutdown was under Clinton in 95/96 lasted 21 days since him and Newt had disagreements. I'm well aware actually, but my post was referring to more recent times as in 10 years or so as I mentioned earlier. So longest shutdown ever of 21 days happened under a Democrat.

Currently, On various polls, most people feel both Obama and Congress are to blame 50/50, yet the mainstream media of course will put most of the blame on the Republicans(shocker) and Obama having of late a 37% approval rating. So obviously, 50% of the country feels he's obviously to blame as well as Congress.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/08/in-new-poll-americans-blame-everyone-for-government-shutdown/

@cuddlebear:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@explodingpineapple said:

Let me guess everyone is going to blame Bush. Move on people.

Tell me about. Watch the video.

Typical liberal. If someone disagrees with you they are an "extremist."

Gallery

Just read this so I'd like to chime in. Unfortunately, this is the sad truth. But me personally, I call it more of a desperate one I hear ya guys. I've had some people call me "extremist" or "racist" at times because I don't agree with Obama's policies. Or once some people find out I'm a minority, I get "what you're not for democrats, what's wrong with you!?" Some people will just pull the "blame Bush card" and not Obama remotely, but at this point I'm sure you guys realize that's just the mainstream desperate argument. Nearly 7 years later and some people will still use that argument. That is sad though when you think about that Obama will negotiate with Terror cells and not Congress. And let's not forget the scandals surrounding Obama like Benghazi that he ignores and the media that worships him tries so desperately to cover up.

@vaeternus: You didn't mention 10 years or anything of the sort. You said "past 35 years or so", and if there was absolutely no point to that statement judging by your backtracking, I'm at a loss as to why you even typed it out.

The difference there is that when Clinton was President, the House and Senate were both under the majority control of the GOP, a scenario that has never been replicated in the case of any other shutdown. And the big controversy during that shutdown wasn't really anything to do with Clinton; there was an enormous hue-and-cry over the idea that Newt Gingrich was deliberately forcing an impasse over the clean resolution because he felt personally slighted by Clinton changing his seating arrangement onboard Air Force One when they were returning from Rabin's funeral in Jerusalem. The perception spread that he was endangering the country's well-being for purely personal reasons, and the GOP then caved and decided to hash out an agreement as public opinion of their position started to plummet. Clinton's approval ratings after the 21-day shutdown hit their highest since his swearing-in, so the American electorate would seem to have a more charitable view of how he handled that situation than you do.

I could find a dozen polls across the internet that say the American people place the majority of the blame for the shutdown almost squarely on the Republicans, but they're all the "mainstream media", and god knows there's nothing more antithetical to the Republican cause than the big bad media.

@citizenbane: I did now since I was referring to more recent times(like with Bush Jr. for example) despite some controversy around him, the government never shut down. I think when that happens, the President is mostly to blame(despite party) however, the longer a shutdown lasts the worse off the man in charge looks half the time.

Allow me to be more specific since I perhaps wasn't initially. My comment implied more recent events referring to Clinton's second term and Bush's Jr two terms making 10 years, you posted past 35-40 year span. Congress as you know goes back and forth much like Presidential parties do, Newt's main gripe wasn't the plane gig. That's what the media wants you to believe, it was cause of budgets, the second time it happened the republicans caved.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/

This lists every shutdown in history..

Yes, but my polls I do my best to find from non-biased sites but more general sites. Notice mine aren't from Fox nor MSNBC...but a good mix if you will(which is hard to find) as for the Republicans and hating the "big bad media" well let's see here, every major network is liberal except for one. So yeah, I can't imagine why they'd feel that way..

@nelomaxwell:

Why am I surprised?

I. Because one of my friends does follow politics and he is quite intelligent and usually has good reasonable explanation for all his points of views. I am surprised that of all people he would feel the blame should be put on Obama.

II. Because my other friend always says, "man I don't care about politics, I'm not even a citizen" so I'm surprised he has a political point of view and it's for blaming Obama. This is unbelievable. This is madness.

III. Because I always heard that other people make claims or statements about the situation without ever doing any research about the subject...

Speech Team meeting gotta cut this short. Peace.

June'sVeryOwn

So the republicans shut down the government!

The main problem is Democrats are not meeting in the middle, or budging whatsoever. And you can't really argue that Obamacare was the main pitch of the election of Obama, he did not say anything about forcing it on everyone, and the majority of the people I know voted for him just because he wasn't as bad of a choice as the other candidates. I does not mean they agreed with this. I am not a republican nor democrat, however, this is not one side's blame.

Unless it's the president personally vetoing a resolution that's agreed upon by both the House and Senate (like it was in the case of Ford, Carter once, Reagan three times, Bush Sr. and Clinton), I don't see how it's always the President that's mostly to blame. Obama can't veto a resolution unless it's put in front of him, and the whole point of this current shutdown is that Congress has failed to come up with an accepted resolution to put in front of the president in the first place. Even all his talking points of negotiation or the lack thereof came after the shutdown happened ---- when the House and the Senate were squabbling over the GOP's shoehorned amendments to the budget, Obama wasn't even in the country at the time (if I remember correctly). He was out on foreign diplomacy work.

As for the assertion that the longer a shutdown lasts, the worse the man in charge looks, it's contradicted by those same approval ratings that you love to highlight. After the longest government shutdown in US history, Clinton came out smelling like daisies, according to his approval ratings.

Allow me to be more specific since I perhaps wasn't initially. My comment implied more recent events referring to Clinton's second term and Bush's Jr two terms making 10 years, you posted past 35-40 year span. Congress as you know goes back and forth much like Presidential parties do, Newt's main gripe wasn't the plane gig. That's what the media wants you to believe, it was cause of budgets, the second time it happened the republicans caved.

Considering Congress passed a temporary budget in November of that year that gave everyone involved some much-needed breathing time until Newt continued to stonewall the resolution for reasons that were entirely impersonal and provoked a second shutdown in December as a result ---- it's just a little bit hard to not allocate most of the blame in that direction.

Yes, but my polls I do my best to find from non-biased sites but more general sites. Notice mine aren't from Fox nor MSNBC...but a good mix if you will(which is hard to find) as for the Republicans and hating the "big bad media" well let's see here, every major network is liberal except for one. So yeah, I can't imagine why they'd feel that way..

Sure, sure.

@citizenbane:

Well, let's be honest here. Any government shutdown wouldn't happen if the President's choices weren't "questionable" by some one now would they? That's why afterall we have congress so that a President can't be a Dictator and do what they want. Yeah, there's a shock Obama not being around when he should be. Yeah, well like you said right concerning numbers, you can find them anywhere but approval ratings i'm curious, and goes for people in this thread too. Posting "Congress and Republican" approvals yet ignoring Obama's 375? hmm whys' that?

Debatable, obviously Newt felt we could spend less then what clinton was offering. Because we totally don't have spending issues right?

I imagine you're being sarcastic with the sure, sure but hey I try. I'm so sure the other "numbers" in here are totally from non biased sites.

@cable_extreme: I agree.

Yeah it's pretty typical of a liberal to call people extremists for campaigning to shut the government down or using the threat of default in attempt to score political victories that they otherwise lack the support of the American people elect them to do. I get you're trolling - but don't you get tired of it?

Yes they represent the minority and only maintained their political power because they redrew the lines:

In states the President won in 2012 by a large margin, where Democrats are gaining many more votes - the House GOP won majority of seats.

Some of those numbers are from the same poll you got yours from. One of them was right after the shutdown and the last poll I commented on was reported 11 minutes before I wrote my post. There's a difference between a negotiation and extortion - what the GOP is doing is the latter. Its his highway - the American people gave it to him when he won in 2012.

Every attempt by the GOP to take down the ACA has failed, whether that was their bid for the Presidency, the Supreme Court or hundreds of meaningless votes to repeal it. The House GOP attempting to use the threat of default to score political wins they simply didn't have the support of the American people to elect them to accomplish is nothing but their final battle cry of the loser. The Affordable Care Act is law.

As for lincoln, he.never wanted to alter the constitution for the worse and only freed the slaves but yeah, so controversial...seriously youre comparing obama to lincoln ?seriously

I just find it ironic to see you have a high opinion of Lincoln despite him doing everything you hate Barack Obama for. And yeah I was making that comparison.

Google those poll percentages and you'll find those polls just like I did for yours.

How is offering deals that Obama is flat out turning down extortion? He's rejecting every deal they offer, they disagree with what he's doing now. Sounds like he's using his power and dictator methods to me to get what he wants, he flat out admitted "he's not negotiating with them with a gun pointed at his head" obviously he feels the need to not budge anymore then Congress does, and just blames everyone else. Yes, and the same american people also gave him a 37% approval rating that you don't hear about...As I said earlier, Banghazi case totally ignored, dodged and swept under the rug by the media....and tried blaming it on a "youtube video" right. Yeah, it's failed because Obama won't work with them at all. And you do know 50% of the country isn't fond of Obamacare right? People act as if it's just congress doesn't like it, it's not...a ton of people aren't fond of it.

Oh I never said Lincoln or anyone else for that matter is "perfect" but comparing Obama to Lincoln is like comparing a Ford Thunderbird to a Chevy Corvette. Entirely different league and not even close comparison as far as I'm concerned. Lincoln by many is known as one of this countries best Presidents for several reasons, Obama however was voted in by all the wrong reasons and is arguably one of the most hated Presidents to date because of his radical, controversial policies. And to be clear, I don't "hate" Barack Obama, I hate/dislike his policies...I don't like anything that's radical despite the direction. I believe there should be a good balance while upholding what the Constitution stands for. That is not happening right now.

Let's be as honest as Abe himself and point out that the President's "choices" were ratified by Congress, the Supreme Court and the American electorate in the 2012 election. I mean, come on, if you just need to pin some blame, any blame, on Obama, be frank about it.

Debatable, obviously Newt felt we could spend less then what clinton was offering. Because we totally don't have spending issues right?

Uh, Newt wanted to extend the nation's operating capacity beyond the period of time that it was funded. That was one of the GOP's suggestions back in '96, along with limiting the Fed's ability to ward off a borrowing crisis by using domestic trust funds. Spending less is all well and good, but please understand that running a nation requires money and spending cuts will have to factor that into account. Nations as big as the United States will almost always have spending issues unless they are the proud republic of Tahiti. I'm not exactly sure if Tahiti is a republic. I don't actually know where Tahiti is.

Yeah, well like you said right concerning numbers, you can find them anywhere but approval ratings i'm curious, and goes for people in this thread too. Posting "Congress and Republican" approvals yet ignoring Obama's 375? hmm whys' that?

Because it's not that big a deal? Clinton's approval ratings were only slightly higher during his shutdown, and we know how that ended up. Come ask me about this after the shutdown ends and Obama's approval ratings are evaluated again.

Almost forgot this part:

Yeah, there's a shock Obama not being around when he should be

I don't actually have words for this. Just general sadness.

So you find the truth sad? I see. I'm pretty certain Abe upheld and supported the constitution, not oppose it's ideals...

But yeah, you're right. Obama is totally an angel that shouldn't be blamed for anything I must be out of my mind, everything is all Bush's fault and the republicans in Congress...the more logical explanation.

I'm pretty sure Newt's gripe was budget(as it usually is these days with a lot of people) how much money is being spent on Obamacare again? Do give me those numbers :)

Really? that's funny because when Bush was in a lot of people on here made a big deal about his approval ratings at times. So does that only apply to republicans and not democrats or is Obama special or something? Because I'm pretty sure that matters since he's only the President but yeah...who cares right?

Can't wait to see where we are by 2016 at this rate.

Are the Republicans really the ones to blame.

I know diddly squat about why this happened but are they solely responsible ?

No, they're are no solely responsible. Pretty much they and Obama can't come to terms and Obama has said flat out he's not interested in negotiating with them. But some folks will tell you it's all Bush and the republicans fault(Obama is untouchable).

Ok thanks

I remember in an episode of south park cartman said something like "No one can talk sh*t about Obama because he's black"

I find the idea that someone could view Obama executing a presidential responsibility to be just another case of Obama "not being where he should" sad. You are aware of what being President roughly entails, correct?

But yeah, you're right. Obama is totally an angel that shouldn't be blamed for anything I must be out of my mind, everything is all Bush's fault and the republicans in Congress...the more logical explanation.

Yes, this is exactly what I said.

I'm pretty sure Newt's gripe was budget(as it usually is these days with a lot of people) how much money is being spent on Obamacare again? Do give me those numbers :)

Just over a trillion bucks split across the next ten years, according to cautious estimates. Those same estimates also point out that Obamacare will cut the national deficit by about $1.2 trillion over the next twenty years, which is A) something America sorely needs, and B) an offset to the initial cost of the scheme. There are your numbers.

Really? that's funny because when Bush was in a lot of people on here made a big deal about his approval ratings at times. So does that only apply to republicans and not democrats or is Obama special or something? Because I'm pretty sure that matters since he's only the President but yeah...who cares right?

Bush was somewhat special himself; his approval ratings went through the roof after 9/11, and then plummeted to the point that he actually was the most hated President since approval ratings became a thing. Till date, no President has ever had lower approval ratings than Bush did. Not even *gasp* Obama. Setting records like that tends to draw attention, what can I say? If Bush hadn't sucked the country into wars that turned out to be that unpopular, maybe folks wouldn't have paid such close attention to his approval ratings.

The child sociopath with a poster of Hitler in his room has always been a great source of political analysis.

@consolemaster001: lol I'm surprised Obama hasn't tried to shut them down honestly(south park). Did you know that terrorist groups have sent SP guys death threats for past episodes? I'm not joking. Crazy stuff..they mock everyone but I guess some people and groups are untouchable :/

Yeah i know because they showed Muhammad in an episode.

@citizenbane That was just a joke.

@consolemaster001: Yes, I'm aware.

Yeah, some people take SP seriously apparently lol. I find it hilarious and random personally(but hey nobody's perfect)

Yes, but what that comment implied is Obama tends to "not be available" when certain scandals arise or if he's being hunted for questions. Such as Banghazi where he was where again and having Hillary answer his questions for him? Yes, I'm aware president's must travel(when actually necessary) the issue is here, at home in the USA so why would he be MIA exactly?

Well, It seems you've addressed every poster in here who happens to blame or partially blame Obama. So you feel he's not to blame at all? Just curious.

Ah, ok trillions. Ok, so do you find it so odd now why some people including normal us citizens would have gripes with that much spending? I mean when Bush was in, he was spending millions and people had gripes with it on Iraq. Obama spending more on an untested, controversial care plan. You don't see any issues with this?

Yeah, well as someone else pointed out Bush isn't afraid nor negotiates with radical terrorists unlike other people. And both dems as well as reps supported Bush going after Bin Laden after that. BTW, I assure you that wasn't fun being as how I live in NYC so i lived it live. To be honest, had he NOT retaliated I would have been pissed as i'm sure others would have too. Yeah, Bush had a 36% while Obama has a current 37% approval rating in less time then Bush's terms in office(totally the worst) ....

You want to talk about unnecessary wars, look at Obama. Ignored everything until he heard "chemical weapons" now he wants to attack Syria...touche.

On the SP topic, you do know it's a fictional comedy right? They mock everyone. Family Guy and American Dad tends to mock the right, while South Park mocks the left. But I will at least give SP more credit given how they mock everyone and anyone.

@vaeternus said:

@citizenbane: I'm quite familar but as I said I was referring to more recent, not historically since you're talking overall. Yes, but did you know that while Carter and Reagan had multiple shutdowns, neither lasted as much as when Clinton was in.

And record wise(assuming this one doesn't break it) longest shutdown was under Clinton in 95/96 lasted 21 days since him and Newt had disagreements. I'm well aware actually, but my post was referring to more recent times as in 10 years or so as I mentioned earlier. So longest shutdown ever of 21 days happened under a Democrat.

Currently, On various polls, most people feel both Obama and Congress are to blame 50/50, yet the mainstream media of course will put most of the blame on the Republicans(shocker) and Obama having of late a 37% approval rating. So obviously, 50% of the country feels he's obviously to blame as well as Congress.

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/08/in-new-poll-americans-blame-everyone-for-government-shutdown/

@cuddlebear:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@explodingpineapple said:

Let me guess everyone is going to blame Bush. Move on people.

Tell me about. Watch the video.

Typical liberal. If someone disagrees with you they are an "extremist."

Gallery

Just read this so I'd like to chime in. Unfortunately, this is the sad truth. But me personally, I call it more of a desperate one I hear ya guys. I've had some people call me "extremist" or "racist" at times because I don't agree with Obama's policies. Or once some people find out I'm a minority, I get "what you're not for democrats, what's wrong with you!?" Some people will just pull the "blame Bush card" and not Obama remotely, but at this point I'm sure you guys realize that's just the mainstream desperate argument. Nearly 7 years later and some people will still use that argument. That is sad though when you think about that Obama will negotiate with Terror cells and not Congress. And let's not forget the scandals surrounding Obama like Benghazi that he ignores and the media that worships him tries so desperately to cover up.

Obama should just step down. The media should be overhauled and not allowed to act this way.

Software, Design Defects Cripple Health-Care Website

Yes, the Republicans are the ones to blame. I'll just copy what I said in a previous post, since some people here keep talking about the President not "negotiating" even though I already addressed why this is nonsense:

What we have now is a pretty clear case of extortion by a group that mistakenly thought they could use the government closure and debt ceiling as bargaining chips against Obama. They were not only sadly mistaken, but those are not things that one party can use to try to get concessions from another. We're talking about the welfare of the country and world economy, something that the Tea Party doesnt care about.

Fact: Boehner had previously agreed with Sen. Reid in the Senate on a deal to pass a "clean" Continuing Resolution. This deal was actually advantageous to Boehner, since Reid agreed to what Boehner wanted. Then, Boehner reneged on his word and decided that he'd follow Ted Cruz and try to extort defunding Obamacare from the Dems by threat of not funding the government.

Fact: Now the Republicans are accusing the Dems and Obama of not negotiating, which is ridiculous because there's no negotiation here. A negotiation is where both parties give up something, and the option to not reach a compromise is there without threat of some major catastrophe if you dont. That's not what we have here. The Republicans have offered NOTHING. They only ask the Dems/Obama to give up something, and threaten to not raise the debt-ceiling if they dont get what they want.

That's not a negotiation, that's extortion, and the ones who pay the price are the entire world. This should not just be illegal, it should be considered treason. The 14th Amendment says that the debt of the United States cannot be questioned.

Repealing Obamacare WAS a one of the main platforms of Romney. This was a central focus of the election, and it's settled.

There's no such thing as "meeting in the middle". You dont meet in the middle with kidnappers or hostage takers, you either capitulate or you dont. And, as I already pointed out numerous times, the Democrats did negotiate with Boehner and even gave him what he wanted earlier over the Continuing Resolution. The result... Boehner agreed to a deal, and then reneged on it. Now he asks for demands, offers nothing in return, and declares that the GOP will not raise the debt-ceiling if they dont get what they want. That's not "negotiating", that's extortion.

Meeting in the middle is how to get stuff done. If no one does that, you can see what has happened. And why would you compare a side of congress to kidnappers or hostage takers?

Like i said before, Obamacare was not nearly as developed (at the election) as it is now. Obama has made changes to it, and made it mandatory for everyone. The main reason being are disagreeing with it is nearly half of the population that didn't vote for Obama doesn't want to be forced to do anything. They already have to pay taxes, and now they are being told what to spend more of their money on. Obamacare is not something our founding fathers would agree with, forcing people (most of the time to pay more for health insurance than they did before) to by something. I can easily see why the Republicans would not pass this.

Meeting in the middle is what the Republicans have shown they are unwilling to do. Like I keep having to point out, a deal was struck between Boehner and the Democrats. This was a deal that was what Boehner wanted. Then, he decided to go back on it and take the current action of trying to shut down the government unless they get Obamacare defunded.

Why would I compare the Tea Party to hostage takers? Because that's what they're doing. They have taken the budget as hostage and threatened to destroy it unless the Democrats give in to their demands. They already turned down the negotiation and the agreement that had occurred. Obama should not give in, because all that leads to is us having more hostage situations every year.

Obamacare was passed and known before the election. It's the law. If you dont like it, and if Republicans dont like it, it's irrelevant. It's the law and it was declared Constitutional. The Republicans are not afraid that Obamacare will fail, they are afraid that it will succeed. They have staked everything on trying to destroy not just Obamacare, but Obama. Once Obamacare succeeds and people like it, the entire country will see who was right and who was wrong. The GOP, and more specifically the small right-wing radicals in its party, cant stand that Obama might prevail, and so they're willing to ruin our entire country to get their way.

@cable_extreme: you are smart sir, good post.you

@ willpayton: uhh no, obama is the main reason and one to blame and thats not bs, obama was quoted saying he has.no interest in negotiating with the republicans..fact.

Another fact as iposted earlier, most of the country feel its as much obamad fault as it is the republicans. Period. This 'extortion' stuff is nonsense, obama is acting like a spoiled cgild not getting his way who thinks he ca do whatever he wants despite if its constitutional or not.Tats not a president, thats how a dictator works.

Guys remember obama won the election he has a mandate. the kind of mandate the new england patriots have when they beat the cleveland browns.

I have a question. Do you notice a difference?

@vaeternus:

what has the gop offered for obama to even consider negotiating?

I have already addressed this multiple times... which you seem intent on ignoring. This tells me that you're not interested in hearing or acknowledging the truth, only in saying the same thing over and over no matter how wrong it is.

Your "fact" is actually a lie. You're either not willing to inform yourself, or just happy to come here and lie over and over, thinking that you wont get called on it.

Now, for actual facts:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite

Fact: 70% of Americans say that Congressional Republicans are putting their own political agendas ahead of the good of the country.

Fact: 53% of Americans blame the Republicans for the shutdown. Only 31% blame Obama. That's a difference of 22%!

Fact: Obama's approval rating has actually gone up 2% since last month. It's currently at 47%. As a comparison, Congressional Republicans have an approval rating of 24%. That's a difference of 23%! (BTW, the Tea Party has a favorable rating of 21%)

Fact: 50% of Americans oppose totally defunding Obamacare, even if it means a government shutdown.

@cezar_thescribe: I wish, dude if that was a republican in there now doing all this can you imagine the uproar from the media demanding his impeachment? But it's Obama so...

@cable_extreme: Sadly people don't see that his changes are unconstitutional, they just see "free healthcare" and think everything is alright.

@ willpayton, yes, with 100% of your opinion but you try to label is as fact(like the thread title for example) yet I didn't see you go on about Banghazi why's that? Or the fact that he was linked to giving Mexican cartels weapons? Where are those topics? I read what you posted but you're just making accusations based off of personal bias. Yes, some liberals feel the republicans are "terrorists and extortionists" doesn't make it true. The Tea party aren't "taking hostages" that very notion is ridiculous, I guess we can easily call Obama a dictator then, he already tried to silent Rush on the radio but didn't even know that was against FCC laws and you can't do such(in America) it's called freedom of speech. He refused interviews from Fox and anyone else who opposes him and doesn't bow down to him. He wants to alter the constitution out forefathers wrote and put into place. Yet you call the Republicans terrorists? lol Right...

Yeah, NBC is pro obama so I'm not even going to believe that link since it's biased.

At the same point in Bush's presidency, he had a higher approval rating then Obama does now...

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/09/bush-had-higher-approval-rating-than-obama-at-this-point-in-his-presidency/

So nothing said in those links are facts, but fabricated lies. wow, 2% is pathetic dude, really? It's 37% now, not 47%....24? no, lol dude I love it, NBC stats are the best...

And 50%+ are opposed to Obamacare, period.

@brokenspear: Tons of various deals, but doesn't even matter at this point. Obama's not willing to listen so no point at this stage...And what has Obama offered Congress?

Damn sorry to hear all that.

Gop reactions by Bob

Oct 2008: "You'll never get elected and pass healthcare."
Nov 2008: "We'll never let you pass healthcare."
Jan 2009: "We are going to shout you down every time you try to pass healthcare."
July 2009: "We will fight to the death every attempt you make to pass healthcare."
Dec 2009: "We will destroy you if you even consider passing healthcare."
March 2010: "We can't believe you just passed healthcare."
April 2010: "We are going to overturn healthcare."
Sept 2010: "We are going to repeal healthcare."
Jan 2011: "We are going to destroy healthcare."
Feb 2012: "We are going to elect a candidate who will immediately revoke healthcare."
June 2012: "We will go to the Supreme Court, and they will overturn healthcare."
Aug 2012: "The American people will never re-elect you, because they don't want healthcare."
Oct 2012: "We can't wait to win the election and explode healthcare."
Nov 2012: "We can't believe you just got re-elected and that we can't repeal healthcare."
Feb 2013: "We're still going to vote to obliterate healthcare."
June 2013: "We can't believe the Supreme Court just upheld healthcare."
July 2013: "We're going to vote like 35 more times to erase healthcare."

Sept 2013: "We are going to leverage a government shutdown into defunding, destroying, obliterating, overturning, repealing, dismantling, erasing and ripping apart healthcare."

Oct 2013: "WHY AREN'T YOU NEGOTIATING???"

http://friendsinlow.blogspot.com/2013/10/lights-out-look-at-2013-government.html

*shameless plug read the other articles if you have a chance :)*

"So here's the thing, Obama is not the one to blame. If you strictly want to speak about who is causing the shutdown, it is 100% a Republican-generated event. It's something that could be totally avoided by simply agreeing to abide by what congress has already decided on."

Pretty much.

Paying what we owe in the form of raising the debt ceiling is something that is not negotiable. It's something that needs to happen. It is not... I repeat... NOT a bargaining chip. Congress approved the spending, and the debt ceiling has zero to do with that spending or whether more spending is approved in the future. It's like paying the credit card balance at the end of the month has nothing to do with whether or not you want to buy a new TV next month.

So, when the debt ceiling comes around and one party says "we wont fund government, we wont raise the debt ceiling... unless you give us X, Y, or Z"... this is not a negotiation, this is extortion.

ex·tor·tion

/ikˈstôrSHən/

noun

1. 1. the practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats.

      synonyms:

      blackmail, shakedown

Obama»'i will not negotiate with a gun pointed to my head'

The GOP's offer of slicing parts of the ACA off / delaying the ACA for a year or face a catastrophic default is extortion. They are literally threatening the global economy in order to score a political win they otherwise can't obtain because they lost.

He's rejecting every deal they offer, they disagree with what he's doing now.

America doesn't negotiate with terrorists; here its just economic terrorism.

Sounds like he's using his power and dictator methods to me to get what he wants, he flat out admitted "he's not negotiating with them with a gun pointed at his head" obviously he feels the need to not budge anymore then Congress does, and just blames everyone else. Yes, and the same american people also gave him a 37% approval rating that you don't hear about...

No he's using the power he was given by the American people when re-elected. Don't be a sore loser. He's blaming House Republicans, just like the rest of America. We've gone through this percentage talk already, stop trying to spin it.

As I said earlier, Banghazi case totally ignored, dodged and swept under the rug by the media....and tried blaming it on a "youtube video" right. Yeah, it's failed because Obama won't work with them at all. And you do know 50% of the country isn't fond of Obamacare right? People act as if it's just congress doesn't like it, it's not...a ton of people aren't fond of it.

And you're mentioning this why?

Oh I never said Lincoln or anyone else for that matter is "perfect" but comparing Obama to Lincoln is like comparing a Ford Thunderbird to a Chevy Corvette. Entirely different league and not even close comparison as far as I'm concerned. Lincoln by many is known as one of this countries best Presidents for several reasons, Obama however was voted in by all the wrong reasons and is arguably one of the most hated Presidents to date because of his radical, controversial policies. And to be clear, I don't "hate" Barack Obama, I hate/dislike his policies...I don't like anything that's radical despite the direction. I believe there should be a good balance while upholding what the Constitution stands for. That is not happening right now.

No one but you is calling anyone "perfect" and don't blame me you're constantly bashing President Obama for things Lincoln actually did and yet turn around to tell everyone he's a cool guy. The Constitution stood for slavery before Lincoln was done with it.

He upheld it by illegally freeing slaves during the Civil War, then amending it to end slavery. That's standing up for the constitution alright. Yeah because putting nearly a million people out of work or threatening the global economy with a default is a lot better than the ACA going into effect - which it already did. And yet his approval ratings compared to everyone else are stellar, funny how that works out.

Hopefully by 2016 we can actually have a House that isn't defined by Gerrymandering and actual representing the interests of those who bother to vote.

You're wrong and bring nothing to the discussion.

/ Thread

@willpayton hey looks like obama is gona fold on his no negotiation thing. shocked? also i think you are confusing extortion with "negotiating with leverage." Maybe instead of painting republican as threating gun to the head anarchists obama should trot out some children to stand behind him while he gives a "sleeves rolled up" speech. what ya think sweetness? because i'll quote rand paul "i dont think the white house has poll tested saying "we will not negotiate over and over""

Not in 2013 when middle-ground will cost members of the House their seat - because of heavily redrawing district-lines to be republican fortresses. Because they shut the government down to try and twist the arm of the President to do what they want. And are now trying to use default to get what they want.

Yes those people are called the Supreme Court.

Is there some kind of packet or site you guys go to or do you know all these statistics and obscure history off the top of your head?

@ isaac, nope youre the one that's wrong that's why you have no answer for my logical points such as banghazi, mexican cartels weapons etc

As for lincoln, I'm not even going to get into that about him because it's just common knowledge that lincoln was a million times better president then obama can ever dream to be. Moving on now.

For one, no it's not extortion, proof congress and supreme courts are "blackmailing" obama? Besides your own personal viewpoint which is irrelevant. I want solid documented proof that congress is "blackmailing" obama, dude as if. He's already having the worst year of his presidency, nobody has to blackmail him. Because he's totally not done everything in his power to overrule anyone who stands in his way...sure. It's called strategic leverage, not extortion. Big difference, and it's politics besides you think anyone is going to play nice? ha...

No, the people elected him that doesn't give him the right to do whatever HE wants! It's why congress is there, but then he has no clue nor do his followers about what the constitution is remotely about.

Why did i bring up banghazi? lol why wouldn't i? its a valid point that you people have yet to address because I know I'm right that's why nobody has given me a straight answer, but it's ok by all means "pretend" it never happened.

Sure i do, i bring truth and logical facts that are merely being left out as well as @CuddleBear, @Ceazur_thescribe, @cable_extreme and many others here who just escape me at the moment who don't believe everything the media tells us.

BTW, actually no it's not just the supreme court it's more then half the country guy. What else do you bring to the thread besides a liberal mindset that is?