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#1 Posted by Moonhawk (89 posts) - - Show Bio

 Okay, we have seen the horrors of the carnage that took place. Should Obama convince congress to instill new laws to protect citizens?

#2 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

Gun laws to do what?

#3 Posted by Moonhawk (89 posts) - - Show Bio
@_Black: To have them regulated.
#4 Posted by FinnVarra (226 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't be a bad idea. There is no good reason that people need to be able to purchase assault rifles with huge magazines. The very first words of the second ammendment are "A well regulated militia.." It's clear that the founding fathers always intended firearms to be regulated, so passing restriction on what types of guns are okay to own shouldn't be a big deal.

#5 Posted by JediXMan (30296 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't have stopped this from happening, considering the guns were illegal. So it would be rather pointless.

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#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92684 posts) - - Show Bio

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

That being said, there should be more stringent rules and an effective screening system in place for those who wish to legally obtain guns.

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#7 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

Wouldn't have stopped this from happening, considering the guns were illegal. So it would be rather pointless.

Where do you get that from? The chief of police in Aurora said all the firearms were purchased legally I thought.

#8 Posted by JediXMan (30296 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

That being said, there should be more stringent rules and an effective screening system in place for those who wish to legally obtain guns.

If memory serves, that again wouldn't have made a difference here. While I do agree with you, this guy was a straight A student on his way to getting his PhD, with - again, if I recall - no prior offenses that would have raised a red flag.

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#9 Posted by JediXMan (30296 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@JediXMan said:

Wouldn't have stopped this from happening, considering the guns were illegal. So it would be rather pointless.

Where do you get that from? The chief of police in Aurora said all the firearms were purchased legally I thought.

I read it awhile ago. I can't recall where I read it, though. So I am not certain.

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#10 Posted by Alurvelve (3641 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to stay away from this thread

#12 Posted by Dark_Thunder (135 posts) - - Show Bio

There's already thousands of gun laws on the books. They don't do squat if they're not enforced. You have to be 21 to buy alcohol around here, but unless the clerk cards you, the law is worthless.

#13 Posted by Mercy_ (92684 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@Mercy_ said:

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

That being said, there should be more stringent rules and an effective screening system in place for those who wish to legally obtain guns.

If memory serves, that again wouldn't have made a difference here. While I do agree with you, this guy was a straight A student on his way to getting his PhD, with - again, if I recall - no prior offenses that would have raised a red flag.

Even if that were the case, it would make a difference in plenty of occasions.

And if a psych screening were required (assuming he wasn't capable of cheating it, which he could have been, who knows) it could have made a difference.

@Alurvelve said:

Exactly.

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#14 Posted by _Zombie_ (10394 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't of changed much. Even if they were legal, it's not exactly hard to get an illegal firearm in the U.S., so he more than likely could've done this with or without stricter gun regulation.

#15 Posted by danhimself (22490 posts) - - Show Bio

changing the laws at this point does little to solve anything....the guns are already out there and the government sure as he!! isn't taking them away

#16 Posted by JediXMan (30296 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

@JediXMan said:

@Mercy_ said:

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

That being said, there should be more stringent rules and an effective screening system in place for those who wish to legally obtain guns.

If memory serves, that again wouldn't have made a difference here. While I do agree with you, this guy was a straight A student on his way to getting his PhD, with - again, if I recall - no prior offenses that would have raised a red flag.

Even if that were the case, it would make a difference in plenty of occasions.

And if a psych screening were required (assuming he wasn't capable of cheating it, which he could have been, who knows) it could have made a difference.

Oh, no. I'm agreeing with you that background checks and possibly psyche scans would help. All I am saying is that, in this case, it wouldn't have helped. That's all.

@Mercy_ said:

@Alurvelve said:

Exactly.

Indeed. It is naive to believe that banning guns would lessen crime.

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#17 Posted by FinnVarra (226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@JediXMan said:

Wouldn't have stopped this from happening, considering the guns were illegal. So it would be rather pointless.

Where do you get that from? The chief of police in Aurora said all the firearms were purchased legally I thought.

From everything I've read the guns were all purchased legally.

@Alurvelve: This guy did follow the laws, so nice try.

#18 Posted by Alurvelve (3641 posts) - - Show Bio

@FinnVarra: Reading comprehension 101

#19 Posted by _Cain_ (23666 posts) - - Show Bio

I Do NOT Believe in the restriction of firearms at all, I Myself have been the owner of multiple firearms throughout my life, Hell I Love guns. Outlawing guns is pointless, If I Took the Sneakers I'm wearing to a movie theater, And clubbed twelve people to death with a shoe, Does that mean shoes should be outlawed? NO.

I Believe in a restriction to people who are mentally unstable, Or have a heavy criminal record though.

I Support my bill of rights with ever fiber of my being.

#20 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonhawk: It's not like they are completely unregulated. More stringent laws like this would probably be more of bane to the law abiding citizen than to criminals.

#21 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

NOOOOO.........

We all have rights to have guns.... the problem this world has today is kids get ahold of them and kill other kids which is awfully bad.... I just say no because I don't wanna get rid of my gun...

#22 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

The change in laws would mean nothing.

#23 Posted by SC (12959 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably wouldn't be a good idea to do so now, given recent events. Laws should be modified in an atmosphere that isn't highly charged emotionally or politically. As for the argument that cracking down on guns leads to conditions where criminals still have guns and and thus only the people who buy them legally suffer, I guess it depends on how well its done, and treating the problem is easier said than done, the thing is criminals still have to get there guns from somewhere. Want simple logic countries with no guns or less guns still have criminals, and those criminals can't shoot jack because drum roll, there are no guns to shoot with. Of course even that's fairly simplistic notion as well, because criminals can make guns and guns make money, but as long as priority is with making sure guns are available to those who want them, whether for legitimate or illegitimate reasons, instead of tracking, regulating, controlling guns and gun materials, your giving a lot of power to the irresponsible and nefarious as much as the responsible. To frame my point, I love the US, but in a study of 36 countries in Science (the magazine), America ranked second to last in accepting of evolution. As a general rule for all people, I get a bit worried when someone operates an electric can opener without accepting evolution, let alone a car or a gun. I don't even think the top ten countries as far as the highest peace indexes, happiness indexes, intelligence and education indexes, would be responsible enough to have the ratio of guns of say US. The perceived need for them for safety versus accidents, suicides, being used against the law abiding citizen, stolen, etc just isn't worth it to me. Most of the people that created and put in place most of the gun laws were incredibly ignorant as well relative to what a modern day person could know and learn about such things important to know when considering gun laws. 

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#24 Edited by SensitivePsych0 (504 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadowknight666 said:

I Do NOT Believe in the restriction of firearms at all, I Myself have been the owner of multiple firearms throughout my life, Hell I Love guns. Outlawing guns is pointless, If I Took the Sneakers I'm wearing to a movie theater, And clubbed twelve people to death with a shoe, Does that mean shoes should be outlawed? NO.

I Believe in a restriction to people who are mentally unstable, Or have a heavy criminal record though.

I Support my bill of rights with ever fiber of my being.

this, also If someone has a plan and wants guns it is always possible to get them. People should be allowed to have protection, and instead of working on limiting guns, we need to focus on dealing with the mentally unstable in society.

#25 Posted by sabracadabra (540 posts) - - Show Bio

It would never happen.The NRA is the most powerfull lobby in Washington. The NRA would make life a living hell for any congressman that even considered it.

#26 Edited by Lady_Liberty (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't really think it would help.

Lets say you are that crazy guy and want to kill bunches of people. Alright, so you go buy some guns and go to a place where people are at. Then you start shooting.

But lets say you can't buy any guns. Then what? Well you build a bomb.

As bad as it is, I'd rather have shootings then bombings.

#27 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alurvelve said:

#28 Posted by Shawnbaby (10622 posts) - - Show Bio

The man in question did in fact purchase all of his guns legally...he started buying them in May. 

Would Stricter Gun control Laws have prevented this tragedy? Maybe...Maybe not. It might have limited the kinds of weapons he could get his hands on though. 

You need a License to Drive but you don't need a License to own an Assault Rifle?  

For the record..I'm not talking about Outlawing gun ownership. I believe responsible people should be allowed to own firearms.  I just don't see why your average person needs to have an AR-15...let's make that guy get a license.  Maybe a waiting period and a background check. Would it stop every tragedy like this? No...but if it even prevents 1 person from obtaining the weapons he needs to go all kill crazy...doesn't that seem worth it? 
 
And as far as the "If they can't get guns they'll just build bombs" argument goes...I'm sure that's true for some...but most of those guys would have been going in with guns and bombs anyway. Also, building a bomb takes time..."heat of the moment" bombers are pretty rare. And some of the others...well...a lot of these guys ain't exactly the most educated of folk and some of them might just blow themselves up while building that bomb. I'm ok with that. 
 
@shadowknight666: 
 
If you figure out a way to use a shoe to kill 12 people while wounding 58 more...then yeah...I want to take away your shoes.

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#29 Posted by Thirteen13 (415 posts) - - Show Bio
@danhimself said:

changing the laws at this point does little to solve anything....the guns are already out there and the government sure as he!! isn't taking them away

Yeah, America is already screwed...
#30 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alurvelve said:

you made my day sir. bravo.

#31 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mercy_ said:

@JediXMan said:

@Mercy_ said:

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.

That being said, there should be more stringent rules and an effective screening system in place for those who wish to legally obtain guns.

If memory serves, that again wouldn't have made a difference here. While I do agree with you, this guy was a straight A student on his way to getting his PhD, with - again, if I recall - no prior offenses that would have raised a red flag.

Even if that were the case, it would make a difference in plenty of occasions.

And if a psych screening were required (assuming he wasn't capable of cheating it, which he could have been, who knows) it could have made a difference.

@Alurvelve said:

Exactly.

I actually have to disagree with you guys. 
 
I live in Australia and we only have rare occurrences of gun-related crime. The only time we do, it is usually gangland shootings - never random acts of violence such as the recent Colorado incident. We don't sell guns publicly, the only way to obtain a firearm is if you live on farmland or if you are employed in the military. That being said, I don't know what it is like in America, obviously, and I imagine a lot of the economy lives off selling of firearms.
 
In my opinion? I really think you guys need to scrap that Amendment. It causes too much bloodshed. Guns were created in the midst of war to kill human beings - why legalize something with only that purpose?
#32 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84677 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alurvelve said:

I had to chuckle

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#33 Posted by cyberninja (10413 posts) - - Show Bio

No, just no, I won't use the Colorado tragedy as a political punchline, so kiss my @ss. 

#34 Posted by Necrotic_Lycanthrope (2388 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect:

A possible reason as to why America is so charged up is because the US is more of a pot of cultures mixed in, instead of one mega society of similar views as is seen in most of Australia. So you have alot of opinions hitting each other than you would tend to have in Australia.

Also, alot of kids grow up in gang infested areas (where I live, near LA, I always hear about some random drive-by shooting as if it's the weather) where all they know how to do is kill and be part of the "family". Luckily a few manage to break out and have great futures, but sadly a great deal more end up in juvenile hall or jail.

The old phrase remains true in all this: it's not guns that kill people. It's PEOPLE that kill people.

#35 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@RainEffect:

A possible reason as to why America is so charged up is because the US is more of a pot of cultures mixed in, instead of one mega society of similar views as is seen in most of Australia. So you have alot of opinions hitting each other than you would tend to have in Australia.

Also, alot of kids grow up in gang infested areas (where I live, near LA, I always hear about some random drive-by shooting as if it's the weather) where all they know how to do is kill and be part of the "family". Luckily a few manage to break out and have great futures, but sadly a great deal more end up in juvenile hall or jail.

The old phrase remains true in all this: it's not guns that kill people. It's PEOPLE that kill people.

I can totally see the logic in that. It is a shame really, that some cultures are so corrupted by this 'gang mentality'. Maybe that is why I adore Batman so much, because I like to believe that, one day, someone might actually make a massive impact on such poor living areas.
 
Totally agree with you, though.
#36 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless you're talking nationally making it more difficult or next to impossible to obtain firearms - people will still be getting them from states with much more lax gun laws. - See New York

#37 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
Waits for the Obama haters...
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#38 Posted by Dracade102 (8167 posts) - - Show Bio

#39 Edited by Wolfrazer (6472 posts) - - Show Bio

You get rid of guns, people will just make their own weapons from wood, grab a sword, make a bomb, knife, rope, barbed wire, axe etc etc. In all honesty, just about everything can be used as a weapon so getting rid of guns wouldn't solve anything as there would just be new ways to hurt someone. But lets say you get rid of all the sharp and pointy things, and all that to make as a weapon....now thats all well and good however people still have weapons called their fists, fists can be considered weapons...so getting rid of guns won't do anything.

#40 Posted by menaceforever (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

A criminal doesn't follow the law so all it would do is make law abiding citizens have a harder time buying guns for protection and things that aren't illegal. The only way that criminals will stop using guns is if we stopped selling guns, take guns from everyone in the world, and destroy the remaining guns.

#41 Posted by Wolfrazer (6472 posts) - - Show Bio
@menaceforever:  Wouldn't really stop the killing though.
#42 Posted by Shawnbaby (10622 posts) - - Show Bio
@menaceforever: A lot of gun crime is committed by people that have legally purchased their guns. They weren't criminals until they decided to grab their guns and start shooting. Stricter gun laws could prevent some of that. 
This guy in particular had purchased all his weapons legally. 12 people are dead because they were shot by legally purchased weapons. almost 60 more were wounded by those same weapons.
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#43 Posted by NerdsFTW (3732 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes.

#44 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't matter, if a nutjob is that determined to get a gun, he'll get one. He will get it, regardless of gun laws. Personally, I like how different states have their own laws on guns but at the same time I do think some states like NY and Mass etc. I live in NYC and people still get guns, so to me it makes no difference.

Personally, I think they need to make them legal for gun enthusiasts and if your job revolves around needing one. I mean, hell guns are outlawed now in certain states or have strict guidelines yet does that stop criminals or nutjobs from getting them? Nope.

@shadowknight666 said:

I Do NOT Believe in the restriction of firearms at all, I Myself have been the owner of multiple firearms throughout my life, Hell I Love guns. Outlawing guns is pointless, If I Took the Sneakers I'm wearing to a movie theater, And clubbed twelve people to death with a shoe, Does that mean shoes should be outlawed? NO.

I Believe in a restriction to people who are mentally unstable, Or have a heavy criminal record though.

I Support my bill of rights with ever fiber of my being.

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm a slingshot enthusiast and live in NYC in NYS, extremely liberal state. They're so strict with this stuff that it's illegal to have wrist brace slingshots in public(I think even own, but I don't care I have one lol) so guns are illegal here, I think you have to wait 6 months or 5 something just for a gun permit or something. I forget but it's very strict..

Out in the open, normal non-wrist braced slingshots are allowed. Wrist braced, not. Same thing for knives, I think if it surpasses 4 inches, it's illegal to carry concealed weapon/knife in NY. Other states, it's different.

But I agree with your point, while I'm not approving violence or anything I do think anyone can be deadly with "anything" technically, even your fists or if you're well trained. Someone could sneak a mini-baton in there and as you said with your shoe example, club 12 people one after the other in the back of the head koing them or killing them.

If you're mentally unstable, they shouldn't be near a gun or any weapon much less be allowed to drive.

#45 Edited by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, make illegally obtained guns...more illegal?

#46 Posted by HammerTron (602 posts) - - Show Bio

NO!

Back off.

We'll take care of ourselves.

#47 Posted by Cozy_Da_Djed_Eye (10055 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope.

#48 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7729 posts) - - Show Bio

Aint gonna take my guns from my house =D.

#49 Posted by pooty (11017 posts) - - Show Bio

I see no reason why anyone who isn't law enforcement or a certified/professional hunter should have a gun. NO REASON AT ALL

#50 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8810 posts) - - Show Bio

The big problem with gun laws in the U.S is they are not standardised and about 50 years late from the gun laws of other countries