Should businesses be forced to service a group of people?

So recently a 'religious freedom' law has been introduced in Indiana, which may allow discrimination against gays and lesbians. So my question is should a private business be forced to service to a particular group of people? Especially if it goes against their religious values? Now this is not only a questioned directed towards LGBT, but also religions, races, and cultural backgrounds.

In my opinion, if a PRIVATE business does not wish to service me because I'm Christian or/and black, then honestly they don't have to, and I would not in any shape or form feel bad about it and protest or bad mouth the business. That's their choice and honestly I respect it. I just don't see the need for government to stick their nose into everything, telling business owners what to do. It's their choice and decision, and if they don't want to service you, then go somewhere else. There is no need to make a big fuss of something so small. And I really feel bad for the wedding cake business up in Oregon/Washington (forgot which one); they're facing a $100,000+ fine for their decision.

IMO it all depends on your state and location.

I can say it did not work out well for some businesses in Indiana though.

It's a touchy subject, the libertarian in me is saying "those businesses are just running themselves out of business but also have a right to practice their religious beliefs " but the moderate progressive in me is saying "gays have been through enough"

I guess not. I mean other businesses will be more than happy to take more customers and it's really their loss. Plus their image will be ruined. I'd feel pretty bad, if I walked into a business and they said "GO ERWAAY, we dont like er kind, ya durty mexicun!!!" But this is your opportunity to stick it to them and spend your money somewhere else.

Also, whenever the words business and force are in the same sentence, be careful and pay attention.

EDIT: Now after thinking about it, it reminds me of segregation with "No Colored People Allowed" signs. I don't know.

Absolutely not.

If a place wants to refuse service to certain types of people, at the very least they should be open and upfront about it by making sure their policy is known before you go in. Like post a sign listing who is and isn't allowed in on a window or door. This way those not "welcome" can avoid the public humiliation of being refused service or from further being treated like they are sub-human for not meeting the "requirements".

Whatever the majority of the people want..

No, I don't think so.

How does serving people who you believe are sinning go against your religion? Wouldn't you have to stop serving everyone instead of just discriminating against gays? Everyone is sinner.

Let the free market do those.

If businesses want to revoke service because someone is gay, then another business would simply take advantage and give service to gay people and cause the other business to go bankrupt or something.

Absolutely not. A buisness can serve whoever they want. If Shop A won't serve gay guys or something, Shop B can open and make a killing.

Let the market do it's work.

@mandarinestro: @rd189: What if it becomes something worse than that, like radical segregation in the 50's? What if hospitals start denying homosexuals, or even schools.

@ccraft: Then the hospital will go out of business.

@ccraft: By law, hospitals and schools can't do that. Teachers would be fired, schools would be closed and relocated, and doctors would lose their licenses.

God forbid they did do it though, again, the free market rules. Some progressive individual with a pocket full of money would open up the first all-gay hospital or something. Problem solved. The Free Market really is the most inclusive system.

@mandarinestro: No it would not, homosexuals are a minority, they wouldn't go out of business simply by discriminating that group alone.

Hell no.

@rd189: But still, even say an gay individual could not go to a local burger joint, or buy a dvd at the movie store. Say all the business near him took the same side to discriminate against him, businesses aren't going to open up near him to cater to him, he's a minority group, no one is going to make money from a small group like that. Heck businesses might even get more money from having heterosexuals only signs on the window.

Should it not be illegal for all types of business from discrimination?

Lol. If someone told me that in that manner when I walked into a business, I would just laugh. Especially in that old man southern accent.

@ccraft: The problem is, once you have the government start to dictate to private buisness how to do things, you no longer have the free market society.

Using your example, let's say the town passes a law that requires all businesses in the town to serve to Joe Gay. Problem is, Joe Gay is the only gay guy in town. On top of that, he decides to get a sex change, and needs his own special washroom. Since it is now illegal to tell Joe to go somewhere else, all these companies have to spend money to build special washrooms for him. But Mrs. Baxter's Bakery can't afford that, so now they go under, and all the people who liked her bread suffer.

If you start catering to every single special interest group, it just ends up being one spiraling hole that kills competition and innovation. Eventually, if we followed that train of thought all the way, every single industry would be a Unisex Wal-Mart that only lets black people work there, or something like that.

So no, I disagree with you. Let the market do it's thing.

Not subtle at all.

From a Christian standpoint, very, very true. As a Christian, sometimes we are hypocrites. I don't know why so many of us, or any other religion that has sinning in it, act like being gay is so worse than any other sin. A sin is a sin, they aren't any worse than normal people.

As for that cake business fiasco, that's a different story. The Bible states marriage is between a man and a women, so to serve a gay couple is going directly against their beliefs. So in this instance, not serving a couple due to their sexuality is understandable.

Pretty much my thoughts on this. I just avoid the subject. If a restaurant doesn't want to serve me or my friends, then screw em.

@rd189: The should fight against making more washrooms than to discriminate against that person. I would hate to walk into a place and them tell me they won't service me because of my lifestyle.

As far as I'm concerned, shospitals and especially schools are government ran establishments, so by law they can't do so.

However, IMO a private school can do if they please.

I see were you are coming from, I'm a agnostic-theist I used to go to church often, but things in my life have changed where I can't go to the same church.

Well the government can grant marriages, right?

So...how exactly would businesses know who's gay? Do they put a bunch of male models inside and accuse whoever walks in of being gay?

@ccraft: But thats the beauty of it isnt it? If the first place won't take you, you can go to the next place.

The Bible also says sex is for marriage not before marriage. and you shouldn't cheat on your mate(adultery). those sins are directly against Christian beliefs, yet those businesses have no problem serving those people. So why is it understandable to discriminate against gays but not other sexual sinners?

@petey_is_spidey: What does this have to do with religion?

Nothing really, but I was using an example of a cake catering company who refuse to service a gay couple due to their religious beliefs. It kind of ties into religion, but is not exclusively about it.

Well to be honest, we have no way of knowing that. A caterer can directly tell if someone is gay or not, but unless yo get detailed with the costumers personal life, you will have no way of knowing if they had sex before marriage, you know, unless they have a child with them.

In terms of Christianity no one is without sin. Love everyone regardless of gender, race, religion, and sexual orientation. However, that doesn't mean a person or a business has to condone or celebrate the sin

In regards with SB101 if someone is turned down for a service because they are gay that to me seems wrong. However, if a business or person is being asked to bake a cake, or do videography / photography that is in a way to celebrate (wedding) the sin then I think religious freedom should apply.

No, but it's not a very sounded business practice if you're in a liberal country.

@ccraft: I was typing something really long but then I saw RD's post. My post is pretty much the same as his.

True, but I live in a small town, if all or most of the businesses discriminated against me, I would have to move wouldn't I?

@mandarinestro: *slaps you regardless* :P

@ccraft: *ducks*

@mandarinestro: *keeps swinging*

@ccraft: People are also generally not dicks. But you could also open your own store.

@petey_is_spidey: How can a caterer "directly tell" if someone is gay?

Thats a red herring and a false assumption, if a person does get a sex change, that does not mean they want their own washroom. Also sexchange operations are not relevant to homosexuality.

@mr_clockwork91: It's not a legit example. More of a case whereby those with special interests expect buisnesses to cater to their whim, rather then simply shop elsewhere.

Here in Calgary, we had a woman sue 4 seperate bars because they didn't have trans gender washrooms. The judge dismissed the case thankfully.

So that's how the discrimination against Black people in America was solved? By opening up a whole lot of stores that catered to coloured people? the bus companies that allowed coloured people to sit at the front of the bus must have made a killing...

@cave_duck: Thats a bit of an overgeneralisation don't you think?

@rd189: At what point do we stop telling people to shop somewhere else?

Nope, you are discriminating against an individual on the basis of something they can't change. It's where these type of segregations lead.

Also not everywhere is big enough to support multiple types of business' for different "types" of people. So if you grow up in a "one horse town" and you don't fit their service criteria what do you do? Have someone else pick up your drycleaning or whatever, until you're old enough to leave for something you didn't do?

@cave_duck: The only discrimination I am aware of is special interest, needy, SJW-like people, like the mothers group here who managed to pressure our city council to ban smoking in bars. It was pandering, to a minority group, who made up maybe 1% of the actual clintele of bars. Yet they win, because they greased the most elbows in politics.

Anytime the government interferes with private buisness outside of legal issues, it's an affront to everyone's rights, because you can't give someone more rights without taking from someone else. The deeply religious bar owner who doesnt want to serve gays might be an arsehole, but is he not entitled to his right to his religious views, and at the same time, as a business owner, is he entitled to conduct his business to whom he wishes, provided he remain within the bounds of law?

As to your example, it is unfourtnate that such places exist. You can either wait and hope things change, move, or start a competing business. I hold firm to my opinion that the government should not dictate how a business conducts itself, provided they do so within the bounds of the law.

@mr_clockwork91: With any luck, we won't have to. Gradually, society is becoming more and more inclusive. I think it's fortunate you have the choice to shop somewhere else however.

@rd189: Why would a deeply religious person be a bar owner? If he wants to adhere to his religious convictions than so be it but he would also have to adhere to the other tenets like how the bible has a lot about drunkards, seems a bit a hypocritical don't you think?

See this whole protecting religious freedom is just in the guise of discrimination against people who can't help but be who they are.