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#1 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

ok, this may be a bit taboo, but i felt this needed to be shared with everyone out there, as you all seem to be of the same temperment and intelligence i am.

here's the rundown.

you cannot join the scouts if you are homosexual or of any other religon than chrisitian.

get right?

right, now for the proof...

The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that the Boy Scouts of America can bar homosexuals from being troop leaders.

The Boy Scouts argued that its First Amendment free speech and freedom of association rights were violated by the New Jersey high court.

The Boy Scouts insisted that it is up to them, not to any court, to decide who will be an adult Scout leader and who will not and who is an appropriate role model for younger Scouts and who is not.

Thats actually from the CNN news website...

go here if ya don't believe me

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/06/28/scotus.gay.boyscouts/

"A homosexual is not a role model for traditional family values," says Scout spokesman Gregg Shields. (Newsweek, 8/17/98)

The Boy Scouts of America is well known for their bigotry against atheists and gays - bigotry which many defend as fully compatible with American principles of liberty. One Boy Scout troop tried to extend that bigotry to include Wiccans. Curiously, this bigotry was rejected by the United Methodist Church, but supported by Scouting leaders as well as local parents.

Thus, honest Wiccans who are good people are not welcome, but liars who only pretend to believe the same things as Christians are welcome. It’s not religious diversity which Doherty and the other scouts want, but submission to Christian dominance in the Boy Scouts of America — and perhaps in America generally.

can anyone actually believe that?

but get this... this is the kicker...

as said above, the boy scouts a definied as a 'discrimatory organisation', does anyone dissagree with that?

they discriminate against homosexuality, bisexuality and religion right?

ok, as a 'discrimitory organisation' they are not allowed on public grounds right? thats the law.

nu huh...

scouts are not only ALLOWED on public property, but actually get federal subsidation and discounts for holding meetings on school grounds and other federal buildings.

does anyone actually agree with that?

i'm bringing it to peoples attention because i am one of many that actually feel this is wrong, you should not be allowed to advocate discrimination on school grounds and other public buildings. <-- my opinion if anyones wondering.

thoughts anyone?

(a slightly puzzled and confused) Methos

#2 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, here's my two-penneth worth. To me, is doesn't matter about a person's religion or sexual preference if they're working with kids. All that matters is that they're a good person and they can pass on their knowledge and skills. Discrimination of any kind makes me sick and this is even worse.

#3 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

it's amazing isn't it?

i actually thought that the world was growing up for once, yet again the human race dissapoint's and depresses me...

M

#4 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

It's more about people being scared. They get so scared by things they don't understand.

#5 Posted by Ms. Invisible (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, my brain's kinda dead right now, but, reading that whole thing against gays and such, it ain't right (in my opinion). The whole thing where it says "but submission to Christian dominance in the Boy Scouts of America ". I'd just be careful because people who read stuff, especially reading it from CNN, should really be careful about how it's worded and such.

But seriously, why does race and sexuality matter in whether they can be leaders or not? I'm just speechless and I don't have anything to say about this. Genuinely surprised. (Really reminds me of 95% of the people in my year.)

#6 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

woohoo more quotes from CNN

So, it wouldn’t be contrary to the rules of the Boy Scouts of America for a troop to exclude Wiccans for being honest about following a religion other than Christianity while accepting dishonest children who lie about being Christian in order to fit in. That’s precisely what some parents in Troop 71 want: they would prefer that Wiccans be excluded because they are afraid that their children will be “preached to” by the two brothers.

Excuse me, but when was the last time you saw Wiccans proselytizing? When was the last time you saw Wiccans going door-to-door to invite people to a meeting of the local coven? When was the last time you saw or heard Wiccans preaching on television and radio? It’s not Wiccans who are preaching to people and trying to convert everyone to their religion, but Christians — Christians are the ones who cause problems in work and clubs by trying to convert others, not Wiccans.

hell yeah... i actually agree with CNN for once, mark this in your calandar people lol

M

#7 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, that's a good quote. It's something that I have argued with people over for years now. Wiccans do not evangelise! We don't do it. We are what we are and we hope the rest of the world accept it. Christians, on the other hand, have caused some of the worst attrocities over their belief that they're right and we should all conform. I'm not just talking about wars either. I'm talking about the suppression of education, the loss of cultures and crap like this Boy Scout stuff too.

#8 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe, this is something i feel really strongly about...

discrimination of any sort, sexual, religous... age, anything should not be allowed in modern society.

i thought we had moved beyond this sort of thing, i'm really saddened to see that we haven't

M

#9 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel exactly the same, Methos.

#10 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhhh $#@! Looks like I'm the only #@!$%&* here but I'm used to it. I have nothing against homosexuals (for the most part) but it should be up to the scouts who they let in. There are many clubs and organizations that do not allow certain members based on race, religion or creed. Many golf clubs and country clubs have the final say as to who can join and who cant, I don't really see the difference. Just as gays have the right to voice there opinion, so to should those who disagree with there life style. Again sorry if this offends or hurts anyone's feelings but its the way I feel.

Moderator
#11 Posted by Red L.A.M.P. (2828 posts) - - Show Bio

I grew up in the Boy Scouts. I am an Eagle Scout, which is the highest rank you can reach. I'm 33 now so it's been along time since I've been active in it.

It's sad that the Boy Scouts have chosen to discriminate against homosexual boys. When I was a kid stuff like that was never an issue, but then, hardly anyone would say they were gay back then. When I was a boyscout I felt it was my obligation to protect everyone, specifically anyone who was a minority at risk of social discrimination and bullying.

In the future I would not put my kids in that organization. But besides this stance they've been taking.... the organization is an awesome way for young boys to learn leadership and thinking skills.

Staff
#12 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

Oddly I was also a boyscout (made it to 1st class), I'm 30 now and I recently found out that my Scoutmaster was homosexual.

#13 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

Satyrquaze says:

"Oddly I was also a boyscout (made it to 1st class), I'm 30 now and I recently found out that my Scoutmaster was homosexual."

Purely curious question for you. Does it make you uncomfortable to know that or doesn't it bother you?

#14 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly it didn't bother me terribly, he never made any of us uncomfortable while in scouts to my knowledge. I don't believe for a second that "homosexual" equates to "pedophile". I was mostly surprised that this huge secret was in the background all that time.

#15 Posted by Walkingstone (10723 posts) - - Show Bio

How refreshing! Seriously, that makes me feel like there's some normal, logical people out there. Thank you.

#16 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Walkingstone says:

"How refreshing! Seriously, that makes me feel like there's some normal, logical people out there. Thank you."

yeah, it's nice to actually come accross someone with a refreshing open attitude

well done, you've actually taken the first step in restoring my faith in humanity

M

#17 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see how not agreeing with homosexuality some how diminishes you has a human being. Can someone explain that to me?

Moderator
#18 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

nope, rediculous isn't it

M

#19 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

No no, I'm agreeing with the Scouts on this one, arent they a private club? Your the owner of a bar, dont you have the right to refuse service to people if you wanted to? Right or wrong its there choice.
Post Edited:2007-05-17 14:15:00

Moderator
#20 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

problem is, they are 'federally' funded and are alowed to operate on public grounds

ok, as a 'discrimitory organisation' they are not allowed on public grounds right? thats the law.

nu huh...

scouts are not only ALLOWED on public property, but actually get federal subsidation and discounts for holding meetings on school grounds and other federal buildings.

thats what pissed me off... i don't believe that anyone thats funded by the government should be allowed to discriminate against anyone.

how would people feel if they discriminated against women? maybe by race?

would that make people stand up and pay attention?

M

#21 Posted by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree in part with what your saying and will leave it at that :)

Moderator
#22 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"I agree in part with what your saying and will leave it at that :)"

fair enough...

i agree everyone should be entitled to an opinion and their own views.

i don't agree with discrimination against race, religion, sex or anything like that.

you can have private schools, would it be right for them to discriminate against religion?

M

#23 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I was the only regular church goer in my scout group many, many moons ago. So my experience is that they didn't discriminate here in England in my day. This isn't an entirely new thing, anyone remember the Big Gay Al episode of South Park? I think it is sad that American Scout groups would discriminate, but I think it is their choice (so long as they don't recieve public money). If you disagree, don't join or have your kids join. If enough people boycott them and let them know why, they'll change.

#24 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

"Gambler says:
"I agree in part with what your saying and will leave it at that :)"
fair enough... i agree everyone should be entitled to an opinion and their own views. i don't agree with discrimination against race, religion, sex or anything like that. you can have private schools, would it be right for them to discriminate against religion? M"

You do get private faith schools in the main religions.

#25 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

not only do they recieve public money from taxes, but they also recieve seperate funding from the government and military subsidence.

wierd isn't it?

a discrimatory organisation can recieve federal subsidence, didn't think that was allowed anymore

M

#26 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"methos says:
"Gambler says:
"I agree in part with what your saying and will leave it at that :)"
fair enough... i agree everyone should be entitled to an opinion and their own views. i don't agree with discrimination against race, religion, sex or anything like that. you can have private schools, would it be right for them to discriminate against religion? M"
You do get private faith schools in the main religions."

'Main religions'...

hmm so the government can now say what is an accepted religion and what isn't?

M

#27 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

It is in America. Christians should sue the Religious Right for defamation of character.

#28 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah... but the scouts are funded and run mainly by the morman church...

i only just found that one out

M

#29 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

<blockquote'Main religions'... hmm so the government can now say what is an accepted religion and what isn't? M"

That would be an entirely different subject. The 'main religions' I was referring too are the ones with enough funding and potential students to start a school. I don't really agree with it, I was just pointing out they exist.

#30 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

"yeah... but the scouts are funded and run mainly by the morman church... i only just found that one out M"

That's a new one on me.

#31 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"methos says:
That would be an entirely different subject. The 'main religions' I was referring too are the ones with enough funding and potential students to start a school. I don't really agree with it, I was just pointing out they exist. "

ok, sorry :)

just really hate any discrimination of any form

M

#32 Posted by Constantine (16046 posts) - - Show Bio

so whats this about

#33 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally agree Methos. People have the right to live their own life as they see fit, so long as they're not hurting anyone else.

#34 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

maybe i'm just wierd, but i honestly feel that noone should be discriminated against for anything...

M

#35 Posted by Cosmic Sentinel (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

"maybe i'm just wierd, but i honestly feel that noone should be discriminated against for anything... M"

even if they believe they're part of a 'master' race that feels they should invade Poland?

That's why I added the proviso about 'hurting anyone else.'

#36 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"It is in America. Christians should sue the Religious Right for defamation of character."

And Pagans should sue the Catholic Church for defamation of character as well... but that's a whole different argument.

#37 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm stepping away from that one... you two walkingstone lol

M

#38 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

You're right, back on topic...

#39 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

whoah... me moving something back onto topic?

am i in the wrong dimension or something?

meh, anyway...

i just feel that people should know what they're paying for... if they're getting federal subsidence that means the tax payers are paying for a dicrimitory organisation.

that's what i dissagree with

M

#40 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

You wont get any argument out of me on that.

#41 Posted by Hagane Enna (7450 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

"whoah... me moving something back onto topic? am i in the wrong dimension or something? meh, anyway... i just feel that people should know what they're paying for... if they're getting federal subsidence that means the tax payers are paying for a dicrimitory organisation. that's what i dissagree with M"

I just saw this topic now but here are my two cents worth. I was a Girl Scout for nine years. We had both male and female leaders and co-leaders (Oh did we love Mr. Seaver! Kelly's dad was so cool!). I don't think I've ever heard of the GSA being as flagrantly prejudiced as the BSA but the BSA bit pff their own noses despite their faces.

Who gives a flying monkey's butt what a person's religion, orientation, etc is so long as they meet the criteria of being a good Scout? Well the BSA's problem is they want government to subsidize their bigotry. Um, I think not. BSA wants government funding but they don't want to play by the rules of getting that funding. To $#$ bad then. Do without or change. Can't change? Go sell more popcorn and stuff.

#42 Posted by Akhbour (70 posts) - - Show Bio

Discrimination is a bad thing anyway!

Being a boyscout, girlscout, politician, bar owner, president or simple citizen.

But it seems to be part of the "american way of life", sorry about this.

Just the opinion of a citizen of the planet earth. ;)

#43 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

One of Penn & Tellers better Bullshit episodes IMHO.

Staff
#44 Posted by Sanit (308 posts) - - Show Bio

Akhbour says:

"Discrimination is a bad thing anyway! Being a boyscout, girlscout, politician, bar owner, president or simple citizen. But it seems to be part of the "american way of life", sorry about this. Just the opinion of a citizen of the planet earth. ;)"

its a part of every country's way of life.....no matter where u go there will always be one person with hatred in their heart

#45 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

whoah, didn't know penn and teller did an episode on this...

cheers cap, do you know which episode it is?

try and hunt it down

M

#46 Posted by Akhbour (70 posts) - - Show Bio

Sanit says:

its a part of every country's way of life.....no matter where u go there will always be one person with hatred in their heart"

You got me!

You're right, but it just seems to "shine" much more when it's done by the "guardian of liberty and democracy". But thats just me, sadly, as you said, discrimination is everywhere. :-(

#47 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

"whoah, didn't know penn and teller did an episode on this...cheers cap, do you know which episode it is?try and hunt it downM"

I believe it's from the latest season. I like the topics they cover, but they definitely fall into the Michael Moore trap of focusing on great editing and comedy to prove points. One thing they do repeatedly is leave a camera on before and after the interview to watch how people prepare themselves for their time on camera. If someone had a camera on me everytime I had to give a little demo of ComicVine, I'm sure I'd look like an asshole too.

That said, I agree with the majority of their stances, including this one, I just wish it was presented without the spin that they normally criticize others for.

Staff
#48 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmm whats the latest season over there?

currently we've just finished season 2 over here so i dunno how far you lot are ahead

M

#49 Posted by Captain Hazard (1568 posts) - - Show Bio

Akhbour says:

"Sanit says: its a part of every country's way of life.....no matter where u go there will always be one person with hatred in their heart"You got me! You're right, but it just seems to "shine" much more when it's done by the "guardian of liberty and democracy". But thats just me, sadly, as you said, discrimination is everywhere. :-( "
There is alot of verity here and a whole lot of people.
#50 Posted by Captain Cascader (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

methos says:

"hmmm whats the latest season over there?currently we've just finished season 2 over here so i dunno how far you lot are aheadM"

I think this was the first episode from season 4.

Staff