Scottish Independence

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Jonny_Anonymous

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#1  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous

ARGUMENTS FOR:


  • Britishness is dying. Scotland has its own parliament, its own laws and legal system. National feeling and self-confidence are high. It is time to take the next step.

  •  Semi-independence is unsatisfactory. Fiscal powers and economic control remain at Westminster. Independence will allow Scotland to cut business taxes (like Ireland) to promote economic growth. 

  •  Other small countries like Norway and the Republic of Ireland are more successful and more dynamic. An independent Scotland will have the tools to match them. 

  •  Independence would give Scotland clout where it matters: a seat at the UN and in the EU Council of Ministers. Scottish interests, eg. fisheries and agriculture, are poorly served in Brussels by UK ministers.
  •  Relations between Scots and English are deteriorating. Independence would free Scotland from dependency and England from resentment. An amicable no-faults divorce is better than a bickering marriage

 
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ARGUMENTS AGAINST:

  •  The Union has served both countries well for 300 years. Devolution is a young experiment, and it is too soon to judge it.
  •  There is a gap between public spending in Scotland (£40bn) and revenue raised there (£27bn). A Scottish government would have to choose between higher taxes and cuts in public services.
  •  Scotland has more influence in Brussels as part of the UK than it could have as an independent state.
  •  The integrated British economy is more capable than an independent Scotland would be of meeting the challenges of globalisation. Likewise, having independent defence and security structures would overstrain Scotland's resources.
  •  Scots should recognise that devolution has put England at a disadvantage, and should press for reforms to the way Westminster works. Satisfying English grievances would put the marriage back on an even keel. Divorce is unnecessary and would be painful.

No Caption Provided
What do you think?
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PowerHerc

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#2  Edited By PowerHerc

I think this could have it's pros and cons, like you mentioned, but the world is so much smaller due to being so intertwined in treatys, trade and monetary issues that the point seems moot. Scotland may do better economically without English preeminence, control, and representation but they'll still be subject to English domination of the region/British Isles and will still end up taking a backseat to England on the world stage.

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The_Assassin_

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#4  Edited By The_Assassin_
@Edamame: Nobody want's northern Ireland, not even Ireland :-/
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The_Assassin_

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#6  Edited By The_Assassin_
@Edamame: Yup
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#7  Edited By cyberninja

  

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Jonny_Anonymous

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#8  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous
@PowerHerc said:

I think this could have it's pros and cons, like you mentioned, but the world is so much smaller due to being so intertwined in treatys, trade and monetary issues that the point seems moot. Scotland may do better economically without English preeminence, control, and representation but they'll still be subject to English domination of the region/British Isles and will still end up taking a backseat to England on the world stage.

This is a good point, I think you would be right in that Scotland would still be over looked because of British dominance in the region but I still think full Independence is the way to go. I worked ok for the Republic of Ireland. But what really irks me is the fact that even if the Scottish vote for full independence Westminster have the right not to grant it and also desolve the Scottish parliament. 
 
@Mikepool said:
@Edamame: Nobody want's northern Ireland, not even Ireland :-/
you beat me to it. Yea the likelihood of Northern Ireland becoming independent or rejoin the RoI is highly unlikely, neither government wants to take full responsiblty for the aftermath it would cause.  
 
@cyberninja said:
  
I hate that film but that made me lol
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ssejllenrad

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#9  Edited By ssejllenrad
@cyberninja said:
  
Oh look. The fantasy film about William Wallace.. Nyehehe!
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.Mistress Redhead.

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Screw Scotland, I just wish they would bloody let us Aussies get free of the British Govt!

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ssejllenrad

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#11  Edited By ssejllenrad
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

Screw Scotland, I just wish they would bloody let us Aussies get free of the British Govt!

Amen!
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#12  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous
@ssejllenrad said:
@cyberninja said:
  
Oh look. The fantasy film about William Wallace.. Nyehehe!
Thats exactly why I don't like it, every time I try to have a debate about this with my English friends this gets brought up. 
 
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

Screw Scotland, I just wish they would bloody let us Aussies get free of the British Govt!

Does Westminster still have a say in what happens Down Under?
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#13  Edited By cyberninja
@spiderbat87 said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@cyberninja said:
  
Oh look. The fantasy film about William Wallace.. Nyehehe!
Thats exactly why I don't like it, every time I try to have a debate about this with my English friends this gets brought up. 
 

Now I feel bad for even mentioning that movie, I'm sorry :( 
 
I support anyone who aspire to be independent, I don't know about you guys but I think dependency is a disease, it's hard to get rid of centuries old of way of life, but the sooner Scottish people realize It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation the better. 
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Jonny_Anonymous

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#14  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous
@cyberninja said:
@spiderbat87 said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@cyberninja said:
  
Oh look. The fantasy film about William Wallace.. Nyehehe!
Thats exactly why I don't like it, every time I try to have a debate about this with my English friends this gets brought up. 
 

Now I feel bad for even mentioning that movie, I'm sorry :(  I support anyone who aspire to be independent, I don't know about you guys but I think dependency is a disease, it's hard to get rid of centuries old of way of life, but the sooner Scottish people realize It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation the better. 
Lol no worry's, its still quite funny. True or as a great man once said "i would rather reign in hell than serve in heaven"
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#15  Edited By cyberninja
@spiderbat87: F*ck Yeah! now you are speaking my language, love that quote by the way. 
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@ssejllenrad said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

Screw Scotland, I just wish they would bloody let us Aussies get free of the British Govt!

Amen!

HI FIVE!

@spiderbat87 said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

Screw Scotland, I just wish they would bloody let us Aussies get free of the British Govt!

Does Westminster still have a say in what happens Down Under?

It's more of a figure head thing, but Aus really needs to just separate and become a nation under its own banner.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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#17  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous
@.Mistress Redhead.: You mean with the Queen and her appointed head of state  Governor-General of Australia? Does it not annoy you having the Union Flag on your flag? because I know it would really annoy me if it was the other way round?
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@spiderbat87 said:

@.Mistress Redhead.: You mean with the Queen and her appointed head of state Governor-General of Australia? Does it not annoy you having the Union Flag on your flag? because I know it would really annoy me if it was the other way round?

Yup, and she gets final decision about certain issues if the Govt. is at a stand still, its lame. The Union Jack does not bother me, esp now as my unborn child will be Scottish so there is a bit of her/his heritage there, but if I had a choice I would rather combine the Aboriginal flag with the Aussie stars.

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#19  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous
@.Mistress Redhead.: I kind of like these