Science - Questions and Answers

So, this is a thread for those of us who are intrigued by the nature of our universe. Let all of your science questions flow, from tech to physics, and if you are studied in any area feel free to answer other users. It doesn't matter what the question pertains to (comics, movies, tv, real life, hypotheticals etc.), as long as it deals with science, its all good!

(If theres a thread for this already, I couldn't find it)

Y'all don't even science like me.

I'll get started...

- I know comics require a suspension of belief, but I always wondered if FTL characters like Flash would either be invisible to others or essentially blinded when they moved beyond light speed. And when I say others I mean those who can at least perceive at light speed and 'beyond'. Take two Flashes for example, both moving above light speed. Wouldn't they be invisible to each other? They're moving faster than the light can be created, or bounce of their bodies, right? So....how do they even fight each other?

And, on the flip side, using the same logic as above, aren't they running around in an empty world? They can't see anything...

@buttersdaman000: You are correct. The Flash travels too fast for light to reflect (or bounce) off his body. This means that he would be invisible to us. To other Flash's? They would still probably be invisible since light isn't reflecting. Would he be blinded? This I'm not so sure of. From what I can tell, the Flash's senses would have adapted, so he wouldn't be blinded, but his vision would be distorted. The way comics see it is that light is irrelevant.

But even if his senses adapt that doesn't speed up the speed of light. I think it's either he's essentially blind, or his movements are too fast for even his eyes to comprehend

Your original premise can't exist in the real world of physics anyway, since nothing can surpass the speed of light.

Yeah I know, its a hypothetical comic question

Borrrrring....zzzzz -_-

Well it is a science thread, so I gave you the scientific answer.

Okay, after sitting on my chair for like ten minutes and actually thinking about this, I came up with two conclusions. Now, if you're traveling faster than the speed of light, then light is not reflecting off of you and you're no longer in what we call time. To an observer it would appear that you arrived at point B before you ever left point A. If you could perceive time the way Flash does, then it's possible that you would experience the transition from point A to B. In that case, everything would probably be dark since light technically doesn't exist to you. However, it's also possible that you wouldn't experience anything at all. You would experience yourself arriving at point B, but you wouldn't experience the transition of leaving point A and traveling to point B. Could two characters fight while traveling at the speed of light? Simple answer is no. You're right that they wouldn't see each other, but I theorize that they wouldn't experience traveling at all.

Okay, thanks.

Interesting. So, basically, its the comic version of 'if a tree falls in a forest....' since nobody fighting FTL would actually be able to perceive, or really experience, their actual fight. Cool Cool

What more relevant is how they kept their atomic composition in-tack? Plus how can they talk to each other when they are faster than sound?

Convenient answer: Speed Force LOLZ

Apparently it's also the answer to why he doesn't instantly burn off every calorie in his body.

In one comic, Hank Pym explains to another superhero that the reason he can't fully transform into a dinosaur is because it would be a violation of the law of conservation of mass. Yet, Hank can utilize Pym Particles to shrink or grow. How does that work? I think I remember hearing that the Pym particles take energy from an alternate dimension.

@buttersdaman000: A similar thread exist. I believe it's called "The Science Thread" stated by @willpayton

Actually, just because he moves faster than it doesn't mean that it wouldn't bounce off him.

I work best with pictures:

This is your faster than light hero

The white will represent the light

As he travels through space, the light in that area he travels through will be displaced, and there will be a area of absolute darkness where he was.

Think of it like if you were to move through water faster than it could refill, there would be a pocket of nothing behind you (which will than before the water refills)

From here on out, black will represent areas of no light

However, all that light would have to go somewhere, as dictated by the conservation of energy/matter (your choice, quantum stuff is just awkward). It will build up in front of the hero in a super focused point of light. Whats more, the light would be redirected by the momentum of the hero, so the direction they are traveling will get a VERY bright image of him/her, but after the hero leaves.

I will continue my expertly drawn explanation later if you guys want, unfortunately I (ironically) have physics homework to do...

But this is just my take, and I only have a half year of (school) physics under my belt, if you guys want to completely debunk it, go ahead.

Yeah we have a thread purely dedicated to science, check it out here.

The writers at lot of times have no idea what the implications are of the powers they give to characters. Then later another one comes along and tries to add in scientific explanations and it all gets even worse. =)

Physics is just the application of logic. So, when the writers do things that defy physics, it means they have already broken at least one rule of logic in their explanations. In other words, if you try to figure out why something works the way it does given some other set of logical or physical principles, you're going to fail. Logic has already been broken. All you're doing is finding out where and how often.

Now, if you want to know what would happen in the real world if two characters were moving faster than light... then the easy answer is that it's impossible for anything with mass to move through space at or faster than light. It MIGHT be that the Speed Force creates a spacial distortion around the character, in which case he'd be standing still relative to his own reference frame, but his reference frame (his local area of space) is moving. (this is kind of the Star Trek "warp bubble" idea)

So what if you were standing still and a character in his personal warp bubble ran by you faster than light? You wouldnt see him at all until he passed you and then you'd see him red-shifted, probably so much that again you wouldnt see him at all. Now, if you're also running faster than light, you could see him if you're running after him... with either a blue-shift or red-shift depending on whether you were running faster or slower than him. You'd also see his time moving more slowly than you.

Anyway, it's all very confusing even when you dont think about faster-than-light, so best not to.

I have a chemistry-ish question about the Joker's origin. This was probably discussed millions of times but whut-ev:

Did the acid/chemicals wash away the pigments of his skin (almost like an albino condition)? If so what the heck turned his hair green? Harley's hair was two toned because she previously dyed her hair like that prior to the dip. Maybe Joker's was too?

@buttersdaman000: Read the comic series The Adventures of Mr. Tompkins

@awesam: overly simplistic and not true, read The Adventures of Mr. Tompkins, I have the original book, but I imagine the comics deal with the same information, flash would undergo Lorentz transformation and would appear flat from the side, he would defiantly red/blue shift and he would likely bend space time, probably increasing his 'mass' to the point he destroys the Earth... But don't take my word for it, read the comics...

@hillbillymorangie: The question was about the Flash's and an observers perspective of the Flash running at speeds FTL.

@awesam: yes http://boomeria.org/physicslectures/secondsemester/relativity/tompkins.html he would be flattened... He could not go faster then the speed of light, this is a science thread isn't it?

Also read The Time and Space of Uncle Albert, it is written for children, it builds on the work in the Tompkins books and explains that as you approach the speed of light, you increase in momentum doesn't increase your velocity but your mass...

So in summary, as flash speeds up he gets to 99%c those looking towards him approach see him as blue, those behind him see him as red, those to the sides see him squashed as he shoots by, but only if they catch him on a high speed camera... For the flash time goes slower and space shrinks (Lorentz transformations) so from his frame of reference he is going faster then light.

But for everyone else he isn't....

A he goes from 99%c to 99.99%c to 99.9999999999%c space squashes more and more and he gets heavier and heavier and time slows right down for the flash... But for those watching he is just traveling at he speed of light...

Till he is going at such a speed that his mass warps space to much at which point the flash collapses in on himself and the earth is destroyed... Possibly lol

@hillbillymorangie: You're not understanding. It was a hypothetical question about whether or not an observer would see the Flash and whether Flash could see his surroundings when he's traveling faster than the speed of light. If he was running towards you, you would not see him. I know how it would work in the real world. Better yet, you're wrong. Flash would pass out before he broke the sound barrier, but we're not talking about that. If Flash was traveling faster than light, then you would not see him because light is not reflecting off of him. Similarily, Flash would not experience his transition from point A to B.

As Payton said we already have a thread for this. @sc@deranged_midget_ Worth locking this?

@awesam: he wouldn't pass out, he isn't riding anything... Your comment assume that some of his organs allow him to run faster then light but other organs are normal human organs (notably the brain). Anyway all I'm saying is you would see him, he has mass so light still reflects off him, based on what you have said, you would see the flash everywhere at once, so he would become one long line of flashes, as he takes up all that space at the same time... But this is physically wrong as the truth is relativity would come into play, his mass would quickly distort space and time,

Say the flash had a twin, the flash twin that used his power would age slower every time he ran anywhere, while the twin that only traveled at normal speeds would age normally, so eventually the slow flash would die of old age and the fast flash would still be about the same age as he was moments before... Twin Paradox.

A realistic Flash would be cool, but his real power would be able to speed up the world around himself, his real power would be to travel extremely slowly (from the reference point of everyone else)

Edit: note, this isn't theory and is an important part of the space science that allows GPS systems and telecommunication satellite systems to work.

@hillbillymorangie: Wrong. If Flash traveled from one end of a planet (let's say Jupiter) to the other, you would not see a blur, a flash, or anything. You would see Flash reach his destination before leaving his starting point. You're talking about him traveling at 99.99c. The question stating that he's going faster than light.

I like to imagine the Flash on fire when running because friction is a thing that exists.

@awesam: but it's a science thread and anyway, what your saying would only be true is Flash had zero rest mass, or if he bends space, in which case call him Neutrino Man (even if it was disproven and Prof Antonio Ereditato had to resign) or wormhole guy?

But going back to your point, if he traveled at the speed of light from earth to Jupiter it would depend where you viewed him from, but considering photons alone, at that speed photons would reflect from him as he travelled, now he may be unseen by the naked eye, after all it would be a brief second, but it would still be detectable for that fraction of a second, so he wouldn't be technically invisible... Faster then light and I imagine it would be similar to entering a black hole, now that's all theoretical, but it's the same idea.

@hillbillymorangie: You're actually arguing against the theory of relativity. If Flash is moving FASTER than light, then light is not given time go reflect. This means that he no longer exists in our perception of time. If he does not exist in our plain of time, then he is undetectable and arguably non-existent.

@awesam: exactly right... If he goes FASTER. But he wouldn't go anywhere, that was my first comment, he would slow down to a stop, (Edit: that is to say a maximum observed velocity) time would continue around him at a faster rate... As he broke the speed of light the universe would squash around him till he filled the whole universe at 100% (as you add a 9 to 99.9999999999%c the world squashes) for the external observer (ok not with the naked eye) he would shrink and take up less and less universe until as you say light no longer reflects from him, or more realistically it can not keep up with him, he is dashing through time far to fast... But he is not a particle with zero mass, he can't go back in time, he is not going to act like the atmospheric neutrino enomaly (practical proof of Lorentz transformation), theory suggests time doesn't just slow, his mass increases, he would not just exist everywhere in the universe at once, time wouldn't just stop from his reference frame, but his mass would be infinite, he would become very much a singularity, but one that takes up the whole universe.

It's not likely to happen... But based on things in reality that do travel at the speed of light, they don't actually get anywhere quicker from the external observer only from the pov of the particle travelling at the speed of light (or close to)

@inferiorego: Flash has the speed force surrounding him so that friction will not affect him while running.

new title: Flash Thread of Official FTL speculation