Russia bans "Child44" movie

Did anybody notice that Russia has banned the newly released movie "Child 44" with Tom Hardy and Noomi Rapace?

Ostensibly the reason is that it depicts the country( or th Soviet Union as it was) as a sort of "Mordor"). As it was set in 1953(during the Stalinist era or shortly after the dictator's death in March 5 of the same year), i'd say that the dystopian depiction was spot on> More to the pint as the film's plot is the hunt for a serial child killer by a detective whose superiors wish to cover up the matter(presumably on ideological grounds- serial murders according to Soviet Marxist ideology only occur in "decadent capitalist" Western socieities like Britain or the US as opposed to the "Worker's Paradise" of the USSR, I would say also that Russia STILL has NOT come to terms with its Soviet heritage!

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

A friendly reminder to all interet users: ALL russians are drunk evil homophobic people who still live in the past. Every single one of them.

I think you have to keep in mind that many if not most Russians do not consider the Soviet era as particularly bad part of their country's history. They might admit that not all of their leaders were as great after they died as they did while alive. But all in all, most still prefer it to the Tzar empire (even if most of them never saw it).

And it's the same reason they aren't overly bothered with how Putin runs the country, they are used to there being a single strong man that spoke for everyone. Helped along with Putin now actively running patriotism campaigns, where the Soviet past is glorified for defeating the Nazies and where they get very upset when anyone (like Ukraine) says anything bad about that time and are taking measures to remove Soviet-era names and landmarks.

And the banning of this movie is just another example, because they see it as a Western movie that finds/manufactures faults in their glorified past.

And rightfully so.

I’m yet to see any Western-made movie set in Soviet/90’ Russia period which was faithful in portraying atmosphere and/or details of that time.

I haven't seen this, but that plot actually does sound somewhat accurate. Look up Andrei Chikatilo, he was a serial killer who got away with raping and killing at least 50 women and children because the Soviets refused to believe serial killers were anything other than the natural product of alienated, disconnected capitalist societies.

Finally.
Finally someone in our government said "Enough".
It's time to put an end to this cultural assault on our country and on our history.
It's time to cleanse our history and our consiousness of all false guilt and lies of pro-western propaganda.
Let me quote the minister of our culture Vladimir Medinsky. I don't have time to translate, so the quote is on russian.

"Кратко о фильме. Главные действующие лица — советские солдаты, водрузившие Знамя Победы над Рейхстагом, а потом работающие… следователями МГБ (в качестве прототипов угадываются Герои Советского Союза Михаил Егоров и Мелитон Кантария). В фильме есть все что положено: Сталин устроил «голодомор» специально для Украины и убивает по 25 тысяч человек в день; голодающие дети, как вспоминают герои, поедают своих ослабевших одноклассников; в СССР запрещается расследовать уголовные преступления, потому что «у нас нет убийств, они есть только при капитализме»; советские солдаты-мародёры с пятью трофейными часами на запястьях; кровавые упыри с офицерскими погонами армии-победительницы и звёздами героев расстреливают сограждан, соседей, друг друга и особенно геев (!) во дворах, на улице, в служебных кабинетах и просто мимоходом, на глазах их детей, «чтобы преподать урок»; запуганные советские женщины там отдаются советским же офицерам из страха, что за отказ их тут же отправят, «как принято», — в ГУЛАГ.
Не страна, а Мордор, с физически и морально неполноценными недочеловеками, кровавое месиво в кадре из каких-то орков и упырей — вот в такой стране происходит действие фильма от 30-х до 50-х годов ХХ века. Так показана наша страна — та самая, которая только что победила в Великой войне, вырвалась в число мировых лидеров и вот-вот запустит первого человека в космос.
Скажу сразу: дело не столько в конкретном фильме — американские кинематографисты могут самовыражаться, как им заблагорассудится.
Нам до того, в общем-то, дела мало.
Принципиально то, что мы должны наконец поставить точку в череде бесконечных шизофренических рефлексий о самих себе."

Bullshit. We tried to hunt him down for a long time and we had actually found him in the 1984 towards the middle of his killings.
But after error of investigation during some analyses cops let him go. During hunt for Chikatilo cops also captured and executed two other killers, Kravchenko and Slivko. And in 1990-th cops captured Chikatilo for the second time. In 1994 he was executed. This was long not because "Soviets refused to believe serial killers were anything other than the natural product of alienated, disconnected capitalist societies" but because Chikatilo was so... undistinguished little grey man. Noone suspected him, that's all.
P.S. Tell me about for example Ted Bundy or some other serial killer from USA. Let's be honest, yeah?

He was found by accident, a cop noticed him trying to lure some women away from safety and held him on charges of harassing women. Before that they were hunting down homosexuals and the mentally ill and even managed to get some of those mentally ill people to confess to the crimes. The whole reason the case was called the Lesopolosa was because they weren't allowed to call him a serial killer. After they let him go they completely dismissed him from memory to the point where he was able to keep killing by joining the militia organized to patrol the train stations he stalked women from and memorizing their patterns to stay undetected. He was caught the second time because of a witness who saw him leading away one of the women, and by that point of time he had gotten away with killing so many people that the Soviets called in a psychiatrist to unofficially profile him, the first time they had ever done so, and something the FBI had been doing since the 1920's and Scotland Yard since the 1880's.

P.S. Tell me about for example Ted Bundy or some other serial killer from USA. Let's be honest, yeah?

Honest about what? There are serial killers in the United States. America has never denied they exist. Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz, the Zodiac and many others have had their crimes embedded in the national consciousness for years. There are books, TV shows and movies about their crimes. Britain didn't claim Jack the Ripper was a figment of popular imagination.

I cannot comprehend why Russia would ban the movie. There have been a lot of other movies that have been set in Russia and directed by Americans or so and so, who have basically mocked Russia and its citizens. This actually looks like a decent movie that might not be so bad, but I still have yet to see it.

Whilst we're on the general subject of Russian history( and WWII in particular-or "The Great Patriotic War" as I do believe they call it), it is worth observing that just as in Soviet times, the role played by Lend Lease(supplied by the "decadent capitalist West") in the Red Army's defeat of the Wehrmacht goes unmentioned( as does the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact and Stalin's slaughter of the Red Army 's leadership in the great purges and show trials of the 1930s, fortunatley Zhukov, Konev and Rokossovski survived). Is it asking too much of Putin to at least say "Thank you"? (Even Khrushchev admitted that without Lend Lease victory over the Reich would have cost even more than the estimated 20 million lives-albeit in his memoirs after his ousting from power)

Terry

@saren: Why, to be honest about your flawed logic of course.
You mentioned numerous examples of serial killers in USA and in Brinain, but you are speaking about Chikatilo like he was special.
You're speaking about "hunting down mentall ill" like they are not evidient suspects for such cases.
You're speaking about how he got away and joined militia patrols, but for example Bundy also get away (well, actually he run away) and was also captured for a second time "by accident" when cop found his car suspicious and suspected that it's a stolen car.
Presumption one - you're just too quick to blame soviet system for the errors of it's parts because this system is just alien for you. For example let's look on operation "Lesopolosa". You're speaking that "Soviet refused to belive", but that was not case in the first place, policia believed it and tried to hunt him down. The case was called so to prevent panic of broader population. Presumption two - you know some facts, but not reasons and motivations.

To be correct The Great Patriotic War is a period of WWII when USSR fought with nazis Germany.

I'm sure that Lend Lease was helpful, but it became serious only after battle for Moscow when it became evidient that USSR would't be swept away like Poland or France. Pact, eh? Pact had pretty simple goal - to pull the start of war for year or two and take the border to west away from capitals. You see, USSR needed time to rearm army before the inevitable start of war. The return of land that reborn Poland take from us in later years of Civil War after fall of the empire was just a bonus. Unfortunately badly planned Winter War with Finland provoked Hitler. He sensed weakness. Slaughter, purges? Lies. There was a coup led by Tuchachevsky. He planned to make a takeover during war and became kinda Napoleon. Because of this he and his clique was captured and executed. Of course loyal generals like Zhukov survived this. About "Thank you". While this Lend Lease was really helpful it's Soviet Union who broke the back of mad nazi's beast and tore it's heart out. Nazi's conquered France after less than a month of fightings. In Soviet Union during Stalingrad's battle they captured... well, street. Then only after nazi's get broken, after it became clear that USSR can win on it's own, West opened a Second Front. You striked at vulnerable back. And i'm not speaking about barbarous destruction of peaceful cities like Dresden or Humburg - cities in East German. On territory were Red Army fought. On territory that'll be under soviet influence. It's you who shall at least say "Thank you" and stop this insulting anti-soviet propaganda.

Gregory

Not surprised.

Well I'm watching it.

Ok.

Apropos from Gregory(Grigoryi?)'s regurgitation of Soviet era Stalinist propaganda, it is worth pointing out that Stalin entered into his pact with Hitler with considerably MORE enthusiasm than he did with the UK and US- as his daughter Svetlana recalled in her memoirs after she fled to the West in 1967, he would frequently say during and after the war in her presence- "echt- together with the Germans we would have been invincible!" Strange how appeasement in Munich by my late countryman Neville Chamberlain is more reprehensible than appeasement in Moscow! I feel that the West has nothing to be ashamed of in its aid to the USSR( as I noted before even Khrushchev in his memoirs admitted that it was quite helpful and that the English lost many sailors on the Murmansk run). It is quite true , that to quote Winston Churchill(hardly a dewy eyed fellow traveller) that "the Red Army tore the guts out of the Wehrmacht on the Eastern Front" but without Lend Lease it would have been at a prohibitively higher cost to the USSR> And anyway, the USSR got its "Second Front" on June 6, 1944- D-Day! Just how long will the Kremlin engage in the fatuous fantasy that it single handedly won World War II???

Grigoryi on russian, Gregory on english, i suppose)
There're numerous versions of history of the Second World War. Some of them are in schoolbooks, some of then - not... at least, not yet. Let's look at the whole history of world war. It's a story of backfired plans.
For example Hitler planned to have revenge for First World War and to get living space, resources, slaves and etc.
Your english ministers (firstly Chamberlain and then Churchill) planned to use Hitler to smash USSR. That's evidient in events in Austria, Chechoslovakia (yes, Munich) and Poland. In all cases Hitler took territory. In all cases this was territory on east. Nearer to borders of USSR. In all cases England... well, in last case England shook her fist, but nothing more. That plan backfired too. Hitler was too unpredictable and uncontrollable. After Poland he invaded France. The war was also too long and too much strain for an old empire.
Stalin knew of english and Hitler's plans. He planned to delay the big war and to buy time. This resulted in a pact of Molotov-Ribbentrop and a series of border conflicts - Khalan-Gol with japs who learned on hard way that it's better not to make russians angry, mixed success in latest division of Poland and hollow victory in Winter War with Finland that was too long and too costly. As i mentioned before Hitler saw weakness and decided to use it. So germans choose to act in accordance with a plan Barbarossa and not a Sea Lion (invasion on British isles).
Yeah, we had "Second Front" on june 6 1944. After nearly four years of war. After nazis were already broken in Stalingrad and on the Kursk Bulge. That is leading me to suspition that Churchill planned to wait and see. "Let the nazis and commies bleed, we will slay the weakened winner!" - perhaps that was his thought, eh? We know now about plans of Operation "Unthinkable" - plans that were created in secret under direct order from Churchill. Plans of betrayal and attack on former soviet allies in alliance with nazis. But... USSR was too strong and too popular. So operation Unthinkable was really Unthinkable. So Churchill decided to go with longer plan - economical attrition and scorched land included. The choice of targets for barbarous and undiscriminate bobardments of German cities - Hamburg, Dresden, Koenigsberg (today it's Kaliningrad)... all this cities are cities in East Germany. The purpose? To make this land economical burden to Soviet Union. The unneeded immolation of two japanees cities by atomic bombs was also a message and a threat to Soviet Union. We answered on this messege by decimation of japanees 1,5 million strong Kwantung Army in 11 days of Manchurian Operation with minimal loses. Less than a year after the end of the World War Churchill declared a Cold War to Soviet Union in Fulton. USA created a Totality plan to scorch USSR with atomic fire. Later they created the Dropshot plan. In may of 1949 allies declared FRG depite Stalin stood for a united Germany. Later - in october - we were forced to declare GDR in our control zone. So tell me, Terry, what i and we all shall think about such "allies"?

Gregory

You mentioned numerous examples of serial killers in USA and in Brinain, but you are speaking about Chikatilo like he was special.

He wasn't special. The way his case was handled was.

You're speaking about "hunting down mentall ill" like they are not evidient suspects for such cases.

They are not, repeat not, the evident suspects for such cases. That assumption is a stereotype used to stigmatize the mentally ill; studies have shown that they are actually more likely to be the victims of a crime than normal people are. It is virtually unheard of for a serial killer who is mentally ill to get away with crimes for long periods of time because they cannot do or remember the things they're supposed to do to avoid suspicion and capture.

Take a serial killer like Richard Trenton Chase. He was completely insane, a paranoid schizophrenic who believed microscopic Nazi aliens were living in his veins and stealing away his blood, thus leaving him no choice but to kill people and drink their blood to replace what the aliens stole from him. His killing spree only lasted a few weeks for the precise reason that he was mentally ill and incapable of hiding what he'd done or not making people suspicious. Whereas people like Chikatilo, Ted Bundy and Dennis Rader were able to get away with their crimes for years because they weren't mentally ill at all. They could understand risks, take precautions, get organized and blend in with normal society. Bundy was able to lure women into his car because he was an extremely charismatic man that women found very easy to trust. Ted Kaczynski was a genius born with a prodigious intellect, a graduate of Harvard and Berkeley, hailed by his peers as one of the finest mathematical minds of his generation. He bombed 16 places all over the United States over a span of 17 years. The fact that Chikatilo's killings lasted 12 years is itself an indicator that he was not mentally ill, because people who are mentally ill cannot pull off the planning and organization required to do that.

A psychiatrist would have told the police they were barking up the wrong tree. In fact, one psychiatrist did, and told the police the killer was probably a man of regular intelligence, but by then they had already gotten multiple mentally handicapped men to confess to the crimes.

You're speaking about how he got away and joined militia patrols, but for example Bundy also get away (well, actually he run away) and was also captured for a second time "by accident" when cop found his car suspicious and suspected that it's a stolen car.

That's not even remotely the same thing. Bundy was arrested, charged with murder and kidnapping and remanded to prison pending trial. He broke out of prison and escaped, and then he was caught again. It's not like people forgot he existed or that he was a killer. The Rostov police literally just forgot about Chikatilo for years after his first arrest for harassment and only apprehended him again after a witness came forward and told the police they'd seen Chikatilo with one of the victims.

Presumption one - you're just too quick to blame soviet system for the errors of it's parts because this system is just alien for you. For example let's look on operation "Lesopolosa". You're speaking that "Soviet refused to belive", but that was not case in the first place, policia believed it and tried to hunt him down. The case was called so to prevent panic of broader population. Presumption two - you know some facts, but not reasons and motivations.

I never said the police never tried to find the killer, just that they never treated it as a serial killer because they did not believe in the concept. They treated cases as individual killings, grouped them into separate and arbitrary clusters and searched for different killers, not following any of the profiling patterns for serial killers because they did not believe in the concept. It was not until the mid 80's that they started to use the methodology for hunting down serial killers that the West had been using for decades because continuing to treat the killings as something other than a serial killer's work had resulted in nothing but more dead bodies.

I will be watching this movie against my better judgment probably.

To conclude and to return to the points raised in my OP. The ostensible reason for the ban on "Child 44" by the Russian authorities is nonsensical. Claims of "distortions"( which are NEVER expressly pointed to) amount to an implication that any depiction of Soviet society esp during the Stalinist/Cold War era other thant he most uncritically flattering are de facto unjust. We have been here before- remember the protests over the publciation and production of "anti-Soviet" films or novels (mainly defector's memoirs or autbiographies) such as Viktor Kravchenko's "I Chose Freedom" in 1946. If the Russian authorities wish to ban "Child 44" then so be it, but I think the reason for said ban is nonsencial!

Terry