#201 Posted by Pania (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

Sakkara says:

its more logical that everything came into existence through a giant explosion that happened to make everything just perfect instead of being created by a higher beingdo you know what logic is?"

At least the Big Bang theory has observable evidence.

Besides, who to say that when the Bible says "And God said, "Let there be light", that doesn't mean a big explosion?

#202 Posted by Saakkara (314 posts) - - Show Bio

Pania says:

"Sakkara says:
its more logical that everything came into existence through a giant explosion that happened to make everything just perfect instead of being created by a higher beingdo you know what logic is?"
who to say that when the Bible says "And God said, "Let there be light", that doesn't mean a big explosion?"

no one, but that would mean that explosion was caused by a higher being meaning it was completely controlled, not some random Big Bang

#203 Posted by Pania (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

Sakkara says:

no one, but that would mean that explosion was caused by a higher being meaning it was completely controlled, not some random Big Bang"

So? There is nothing in science to prove or disprove the existence of a higher divine being.

It's the slavish adherence to biblical literalism that I have problems with.


Post Edited:2008-02-28 18:50:06

#204 Posted by warlock360 (28064 posts) - - Show Bio

Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save

#205 Posted by warlock360 (28064 posts) - - Show Bio

Pania says:

"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Quite true, but then Stalin killed 700,000 in the Communism, which is by definition atheist.

Any ideology can be twisted and exploited.

I just stick with "Zealotry of any kind is bad." Seems to be the safest way to go.

"

and an Atheist can only exist with a religion, nuff said

#206 Posted by Pania (1759 posts) - - Show Bio

Warlock360 says:

"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Quite true, but then Stalin killed 700,000 in the name of Communism, which is by definition atheist.

Any ideology can be twisted and exploited.

I just stick with "Zealotry of any kind is bad." Seems to be the safest way to go.


Post Edited:2008-02-28 19:00:08

#207 Posted by POHOCOM (807 posts) - - Show Bio

Dreadnaught says:

"I don't believe in god, Bush getting elected is all the proof I need. So is Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, the list goes on and on, all of them rising to power is more proof. "

Psychotherapy may be in order.

#208 Posted by Saakkara (314 posts) - - Show Bio

"Dreadnaught says:

"I don't believe in god, Bush getting elected is all the proof I need. So is Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, the list goes on and on, all of them rising to power is more proof."

What is that proof of? That God should have destroyed mankind a long time ago, cause if that's what you mean then I agree.

#209 Posted by Sephirim (4274 posts) - - Show Bio

Warlock360 says:

"Pania says:
"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Quite true, but then Stalin killed 700,000 in the Communism, which is by definition atheist.

Any ideology can be twisted and exploited.

I just stick with "Zealotry of any kind is bad." Seems to be the safest way to go.

"

and an Atheist can only exist with a religion, nuff said"

Can you please explain that?

#210 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe in God don't get me wrong, (even though I defy it too much) I just don't believe in certain rules that seem ridiculous to me. But I do believe in God, there's too much evidence to prove otherwise. Everything didn't come from nothing, it came from something.

#211 Posted by Vance Astro (91406 posts) - - Show Bio

Sephirim says:

"Warlock360 says:
"Pania says:
"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Quite true, but then Stalin killed 700,000 in the Communism, which is by definition atheist.

Any ideology can be twisted and exploited.

I just stick with "Zealotry of any kind is bad." Seems to be the safest way to go.

"

and an Atheist can only exist with a religion, nuff said"

Can you please explain that?"

I think he means,you can't be an atheist unless there is religion because there would be nothing to disbelieve in.

Moderator
#212 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Warlock360 says:

"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

i doubt that

#213 Posted by weather witch (3188 posts) - - Show Bio

i kno theres a god....now im not sure about the bible...i think old men wanting obediance made it but u cant tell me there is no god....i mean look around u think a dust particle made thw world??

#214 Posted by King Saturn (225103 posts) - - Show Bio

weather witch says:

"i kno theres a god....now im not sure about the bible...i think old men wanting obediance made it but u cant tell me there is no god....i mean look around u think a dust particle made thw world??"

I agree. Much of the Bible is allergorical ( not to be taken literal )

#215 Posted by Chameleone (8710 posts) - - Show Bio

lol I guess, I'm the only Vine Veteran who's a Christian. It's cool. :P

#216 Posted by Vance Astro (91406 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparition says:

"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

i doubt that"

I don't...

Moderator
#217 Posted by Chameleone (8710 posts) - - Show Bio

There's a big difference between what Athiests call saving and Religious people do

#218 Posted by Sephirim (4274 posts) - - Show Bio

Pania says:

"Sakkara says:
its more logical that everything came into existence through a giant explosion that happened to make everything just perfect instead of being created by a higher beingdo you know what logic is?"

At least the Big Bang theory has observable evidence.

Besides, who to say that when the Bible says "And God said, "Let there be light", that doesn't mean a big explosion?

"

good point

#219 Posted by Sephirim (4274 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparition says:

"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

i doubt that"

I just take a look at the shiite and the sunni'(i think thats what they are called
Post Edited:2008-02-28 20:23:44
Post Edited:2008-02-28 20:20:39

#220 Posted by King Saturn (225103 posts) - - Show Bio

chameleone says:

"lol I guess, I'm the only Vine Veteran who's a Christian. It's cool. :P"

I wouldnt say that. LOL

#221 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Sakkara says:

"Sephirim says:
"BlackPanther says:
"Sephirim says:
"No offense to anyone here but religion is fake there are to many religions in this world that make no sense at all ...you have to follow rules from something you never seen b4 in your life...i should shut up before i end up on the poo poo list lolz"

How do you know its all fake? Like you said there are so many religions in the world so a few of them must have truth behind them. And the big bang theory isn’t even reliable in itself. Its one of many theory and unfortunately it’s the most well known."

Correct but The Big Bang Seems more logical then God creating the world(no Offense)? as far as religion..i considered them fake because they were man made, god didnt create religion a person who claims they received a revelation made the religion(example) Christianity and muslims.(not saying all religions is like that)"

LMAO

its more logical that everything came into existence through a giant explosion that happened to make everything just perfect instead of being created by a higher being

do you know what logic is?"

do you?

what he said was a completely logical statement. saying that the sky is red is a logical statement. saying that some mythical being created the universe and saying that the universe was created by a reaction caused by an assembly of particles are both equally logical. however i find one to be extremely more plausible. next time you use a term make sure you truly understand its meaning and not simply use it in a manner that mr. spock from star trek would.

also you cannot use the term perfect objectively when referring to the universe because you have no basis of comparison and no criteria to define perfection.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:14:05

#222 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

Warlock360 says:

"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Judging by how many people die for their religion, that could be true.

I'm Christian, but I'm not very devoted. I have been saved though, and baptized. Even though I'm not devoted as I should be, I do know that once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you're guaranteed a spot in Heaven, no matter what.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:22:35

#223 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Judging by how many people die for their religin, that's could be true."

christianity alone is responsible for the spanish inquisition, the crusades, the genocide of native americans, catholic empiricism, and numerous accounts of people being accused of witches and murdered. religion has and continues to stifle free thought and progression. its a detriment to our species. self delusion is an inherent evolutionary trait that is no longer beneficial to us.

#224 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"self delusion is an inherent evolutionary trait that is no longer beneficial to us."

So, you're saying that being religious is a delusion?

#225 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"Warlock360 says:
"Religion kills more ppl then it is supposed to save"

Judging by how many people die for their religion, that could be true.

I'm Christian, but I'm not very devoted. I have been saved though, and baptized. Even though I'm not devoted as I should be, I do know that once you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you're guaranteed a spot in Heaven, no matter what.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:22:35"

wrong. even doubting for a second the existence of the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. its explicitly stated in the bible.

#226 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"iSHADOW says:
"self delusion is an inherent evolutionary trait that is no longer beneficial to us."

So, you're saying that being religious is a delusion?"

yes

#227 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"wrong. even doubting for a second the existence of the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. its explicitly stated in the bible."

What do you mean wrong? If your saved, you can't be turned away. That's ridiculous. And, I have never doubted the existence of the Holy Spirit. The only unforgivable sin I know of is suicide. Apart form that, He's always been real to me.

#228 Posted by Cannon Fodder (133 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"wrong. even doubting for a second the existence of the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. its explicitly stated in the bible."

What about, you know, the whole repentance thing, and learning to accept the existence of god. One having read the whole bible noticed that was one of the main themes.

#229 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#230 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Cannon Fodder says:

"iSHADOW says:
"wrong. even doubting for a second the existence of the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. its explicitly stated in the bible."

What about, you know, the whole repentance thing, and learning to accept the existence of god. One having read the whole bible noticed that was one of the main themes."

according to the Bible jesus said the only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme, or speak against, the holy spirit. He made this statement to a group of religious leaders who were claiming that he was doing miracles by the power of Satan rather than by god.

theres no redemption for this one.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:42:41

#231 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."

So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?

#232 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here.

#233 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"iSHADOW says:
"according to the Bible jesus said the only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme, or speak against, the holy spirit. He made this statement to a group of religious leaders who were claiming that he was doing miracles by the power of Satan rather than by god.theres no redemption for this one."

What? How so? Give me the book, chapter, and verse, please."

done. feel free to look it up.

#234 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#235 Posted by Cannon Fodder (133 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"Cannon Fodder says:
"iSHADOW says:
"wrong. even doubting for a second the existence of the holy spirit is the only unforgivable sin. its explicitly stated in the bible."

What about, you know, the whole repentance thing, and learning to accept the existence of god. One having read the whole bible noticed that was one of the main themes."

according to the Bible jesus said the only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme, or speak against, the holy spirit. He made this statement to a group of religious leaders who were claiming that he was doing miracles by the power of Satan rather than by god.

theres no redemption for this one.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:42:41"

What passage? I normally would consider saying Jesus is doing the work of Satan different than doubting the presence of God in one's life. For example, Job near the end of the story began to doubt the Lord's will after having been dealt many trials of faith.

#236 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."

So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"

the man said it himself. well no not god techically but the holy spirit. but as far as my understanding goes you must accept one to accept the other. you cant separate the holy trinity.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:52:16

#237 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."

So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"

the man said it himself "

I don't know about that. I was never taught that. I was taught that if saved, you're guaranteed to go to Heaven. For someone who has never believed in Him, but then becomes born again, would be following God for nothing!? That doesn't make sense.

I guess it's true when they say that a pastor doesn't teach everything in the church.

#238 Posted by Cannon Fodder (133 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."

So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"

the man said it himself. well no not god techically but the holy spirit. but as far as my understanding goes you must accept one to accept the other. you cant separate the holy trinity.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:52:16"

I have just re-read the passage and I would consider it a condemning of the act of blasphemy not of loss of faith. For it says the same thing in Luke 12:10, condemning blasphemy, speaking true lies and denying the presence of the Spirit. Not of loss of faith, for one can always repent, but denying the presence of God and telling another Man to deny the presence of God is unforgivable.

#239 Posted by King Saturn (225103 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."
#O_O# So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"
the man said it himself. well no not god techically but the holy spirit. but as far as my understanding goes you must accept one to accept the other. you cant separate the holy trinity.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:52:16"

To truly blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to never accept Jesus as your Savior. That is the true Unforgivable Sin . All other sins can be forgiven. I also recall scripture saying that " If we ask for forgiveness God is faithful and just to cleanse of inquity." But I dont really want to go any farther into this discussion

#240 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Cannon Fodder says:

"iSHADOW says:
"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."

So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"

the man said it himself. well no not god techically but the holy spirit. but as far as my understanding goes you must accept one to accept the other. you cant separate the holy trinity.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:52:16"

I have just re-read the passage and I would consider it a condemning of the act of blasphemy not of loss of faith. For it says the same thing in Luke 12:10, condemning blasphemy, speaking true lies and denying the presence of the Spirit. Not of loss of faith, for one can always repent, but denying the presence of God and telling another Man to deny the presence of God is unforgivable."

right. but denying doesnt necessarily mean to speak.

#241 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"iSHADOW says:
"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."

So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"

the man said it himself "

I don't know about that. I was never taught that. I was taught that if saved, you're guaranteed to go to Heaven. For someone who has never believed in Him, but then becomes born again, would be following God for nothing!? That doesn't make sense.

I guess it's true when they say that a pastor doesn't teach everything in the church."

your right, it doesnt make sense, the bible is supposed to be the infallible word of god and or christ, however it is also fraught with contradictions. im never one to make the argument that the bible and religion in general is sensical. people dont like to mention these discrepancies, especially agents of the church.

ask me how i can prove that missionary work is evil immoral and unethical while reasoning with the established assumption that everything in the bible is true.

#242 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

King Saturn says:

"To truly blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to never accept Jesus as your Savior. That is the true Unforgivable Sin . All other sins can be forgiven. I also recall scripture saying that " If we ask for forgiveness God is faithful and just to cleanse of inquity." But I dont really want to go any farther into this discussion"

See, now that makes sense. Of course it's unforgivable if you don't accept Christ as your savior.

Cannon Fodder says:

I have just re-read the passage and I would consider it a condemning of the act of blasphemy not of loss of faith. For it says the same thing in Luke 12:10, condemning blasphemy, speaking true lies and denying the presence of the Spirit. Not of loss of faith, for one can always repent, but denying the presence of God and telling another Man to deny the presence of God is unforgivable.

Yes. Once you're saved, you will always be saved. Losing your faith will not take that away from you. Faith can always be rekindled, and you can always repent.

#243 Posted by Cannon Fodder (133 posts) - - Show Bio

"King Saturn says:

"To truly blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to never accept Jesus as your Savior. That is the true Unforgivable Sin . All other sins can be forgiven. I also recall scripture saying that " If we ask for forgiveness God is faithful and just to cleanse of inquity." But I dont really want to go any farther into this discussion"

Debating over religion is such a touchy subject, especially when established works such as the Bible are involved.

#244 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

King Saturn says:

"iSHADOW says:
"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."
#O_O# So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"
the man said it himself. well no not god techically but the holy spirit. but as far as my understanding goes you must accept one to accept the other. you cant separate the holy trinity.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:52:16"

To truly blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to never accept Jesus as your Savior. That is the true Unforgivable Sin . All other sins can be forgiven. I also recall scripture saying that " If we ask for forgiveness God is faithful and just to cleanse of inquity." But I dont really want to go any farther into this discussion"

on what authority do you say what true blasphemy is?

#245 Posted by Cannon Fodder (133 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"King Saturn says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Static Shock says:
"iSHADOW says:
"Mark 3:29"Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." jesus will forgive you for just about anything, but he wont forgive you for denying the existence of the holy spirit. Ever. this is a one-way road you're taking here."
#O_O# So, your saying that someone who doesn't believe in God, but then turns over a new leaf to follow him, cannot be forgiven?"
the man said it himself. well no not god techically but the holy spirit. but as far as my understanding goes you must accept one to accept the other. you cant separate the holy trinity.
Post Edited:2008-02-29 01:52:16"

To truly blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to never accept Jesus as your Savior. That is the true Unforgivable Sin . All other sins can be forgiven. I also recall scripture saying that " If we ask for forgiveness God is faithful and just to cleanse of inquity." But I dont really want to go any farther into this discussion"

on what authority do you say what true blasphemy is?"

See, now a statement like that is bound to cause some sort of conflict. It has so many unfriendly connotations.

#246 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"King Saturn says:
"To truly blaspheme the Holy Spirit is to never accept Jesus as your Savior. That is the true Unforgivable Sin . All other sins can be forgiven. I also recall scripture saying that " If we ask for forgiveness God is faithful and just to cleanse of inquity." But I dont really want to go any farther into this discussion"

See, now that makes sense. Of course it's unforgivable if you don't accept Christ as your savior.

Cannon Fodder says:

I have just re-read the passage and I would consider it a condemning of the act of blasphemy not of loss of faith. For it says the same thing in Luke 12:10, condemning blasphemy, speaking true lies and denying the presence of the Spirit. Not ofloss of faith, for one can always repent, but denying the presence of God and telling another Man to deny the presence of God is unforgivable.

Yes. Once you're saved, you will always be saved. Losing your faith will not take that away from you. Faith can always be rekindled, and you can always repent.

"

where in cannon fodders post did it say that denying the presence of the spirit is unforgivable only if you have not accepted christ previously?
Post Edited:2008-02-29 02:11:38

#247 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"right. but denying doesnt necessarily mean to speak. "

Then elaborate on that.

#248 Posted by iSHADOW (2269 posts) - - Show Bio

Static Shock says:

"iSHADOW says:
"right. but denying doesnt necessarily mean to speak. "

Then elaborate on that."

its irrelevant. i rethought my refutation and have a new one after going over the passage again.

#249 Posted by Static Shock (47330 posts) - - Show Bio

iSHADOW says:

"where in cannon fodders post did it say that denying the presence of the spirit is unforgivable only if you have not excepted christ previously?"

.............

#250 Posted by Cannon Fodder (133 posts) - - Show Bio

King Saturn says:

When you accept Jesus Christ as Savior the HOLY SPIRIT comes to live inside of your heart, But if you dont accept Jesus as your savior you have blasphemed the Holy Ghost because how can he live within you if you dont accept Jesus ? You have blasphemed the Holy Spirit basically by saying that its not worthy to be part of your life also you have denied Jesus. And you think that this isnt True Blasphemy ? To deny the Holy Spirit by dening the Son of God ?"

Yes, a very agreeable statement. Might I add, Luke 12:9 "But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God."

A statement straight from the Savior.