Religion… What do you think?

I think I'm losing faith. I used to feel like God was there when I prayed, but lately it just seems like I'm talking to myself. I don't want to lose faith, but I think it is happening regardless. I can't deny that I'm losing faith, nor can I pretend it is in my head.

I guess that makes my Atheist or Agnostic (I don't know the true definition of Agnostic)

Maybe one day I'll find faith again...maybe I'll end up like you guys...maybe it's just a phase I'm going through because of the stress I'm under at the moment.

Am I getting through to you?

I think I'm losing faith.

I guess that makes my Atheist or Agnostic (I don't know the true definition of Agnostic)

Maybe one day I'll find faith again...maybe I'll end up like you guys...maybe it's just a phase I'm going through because of the stress I'm under at the moment.

@artyom: I remember "I'd rather end a friendship than convert"

Agnosticism is a tricky word that people mix up all the time. It means that you don't claim to have absolute knowledge. Like if I said "I believe in God but I know there is a chance that I'm wrong. It's certainly possible that my feelings are false for whatever reason; but I still believe."

And for the record. I hope you don't get faith (in a religious sense) ever again. It's a plague to us all and many of us are only just now figuring that out.

@immovableray: At this point I'll just classify myself as "unsure" because I really don't know what to believe. I'm going to finish reading the Bible and attend church a little more, and see what happens from there. Hopefully I don't become on of those "plague-like" Christians. Those guys shouldn't call themselves Christians IMO.

No true Scotsman fallacy. Google it for me, bra.

Guess I'm guilty of this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

No, it has nothing to do with what you told me. If anything it's @pooty that has gotten to me.

@mastermercenary: yes, we are things, "stuff", but we're well aware of that.

There is no disagreement on this point. The disagreement lies in the value of "us" in "stuff".

While we're not important to the universe as whole, we're important to each other, we're important to our selfish selves(not that it's a bad thing).

What scale did you use to reach that conclusion? Did you reach it empirically? If so what is your evidence?

I really wish you didn't use the SiZe as your scale because:-

1- Theoretically, everywhere in the space considered the middle of universe due to the expansion. (Middle=importance)

2- Atoms and cells are tiny, so let's get rid of them!!!

3- According to Big Bang, our universe was as tiny as the top of the needle or even smaller.

4- If everything in the universe grew x1000000 times, could we even notice that? According to Relativity, we couldn't, unless Planck constant some how -not by chance of course- grew billion billion billion times, then and only then we maybe could notice that.

Bottom line is, how small you are doesn't mean you are worthless.

I am an atheist and i know that murder is wrong because i'm well aware of the joy it is to think, to be alive. To feel pain and love. To interact with another human being. To read, to drink, to sleep, etc..

Interesting.. You are one of those rare Atheists who admit how joyful the existence is, with its sweet and sore life. This shows how silly the argument of evil and the argument of "Why didn't God ask whether I want exist or not", which are already fallen.

Yet, you can't define these emotions/morals empirically in the physical frame. So you need metaphysics to define them, but you don't believe in them. In other word you have just ended your Atheism.

You can't just take all of that away from a person.

Tell that to the lion and the gazelle. We -according to your view- are evolved animals, animals kill each other, so we can kill each other. What about the survival of the fittest? Plus, you believe in subjectivity of morals, so what if murders believe that murdering is right? What if Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and so on believed in that? You simply can't tell them they are wrong because right and wrong will be relative.

You can't criticize murdering or you will be declaring a rebellion against nature, survival of the fittest and subjectivity of morals, which ends your atheism.

Life has a meaning my friend, but you have create it.

Life has meanings my friend. One of them is the main, others aren't. One is permanent others are temporary.

With all of my respect, your reply was emotional than anything else. You even didn't answer my first questions.

@mastermercenary: I've never heard an atheist say "life has no meaning". Not knowing the meaning of life is not saying life has no meaning.

What do you expect from someone who believes that life is a product of chance? Someone who thinks there is no reason for our existence and it all was a flock? Someone who thinks there is no goal from this life?

But I am all with you, Atheists from the inside know how valuable the life is, even though they pretend to think it isn't. They act that they are following the new atheism priests but they know they aren't.

Let's pretend that there is some form of life after physical death. So what? Does living longer in a different form give meaning to life? Does becoming a spirit give meaning to life?

Spirits have nothing to do with this. The Hereafter on the other hand plays a huge factor. Let me give you some examples.

Justice: When Hitler killed millions of people, then he committed a suicide. What kind of justice those victims had according to materialistic point of view in the physical frame? They HAD'NT. But when there is a fair God who punishes the "bad people" the justice occurs!!

Equality: People want to be equal with each other, but when you look at their traits from an individual to another, a huge differences appear, from intellectual traits to physical ones. The question is why they want to be equal while they aren't? I think we both know the answer.

In case you didn't get it the answer is : Morals are metaphysical!!!

Every religious book I've read says the Almighty needs us for nothing. So if he needs us for nothing,it is quite possible that our lives have no meaning.

Excuse me, but what kind Sophism is this? ِAllah doesn't need us, we need him. Our life is - with the approval of @i_am_lightning - a blessing not a curse. Existence is far better than nonexistence. Even our dear friend agreed on this while he doesn't believe in God, yet you the Deist don't. WEIRD!!

Life simply is a test, follow the guide that almighty God has approved. That's it, no more no less. And believe me, you will taste the sweetness of belief and the relief of guidance.

It's been awhile but are you my Muslim friend i've talked to in the past?

In pro per my friend, in pro per.

Agnosticism is a tricky word that people mix up all the time. It means that you don't claim to have absolute knowledge. Like if I said "I believe in God but I know there is a chance that I'm wrong. It's certainly possible that my feelings are false for whatever reason; but I still believe."

And for the record. I hope you don't get faith (in a religious sense) ever again. It's a plague to us all and many of us are only just now figuring that out.

In the name of Allah

Praise be to Allah, we seek His help and His forgiveness. We seek refuge with Allah from the evil of our own souls and from our bad deeds. Whomsoever Allah guides will never be led astray, and whomsoever Allah leaves astray, no one can guide. I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger.

Hello my dear friend.

Hello, I’ll like to say thank you everyone for posting you views.

As for some of the other posts, saying Christianity is evil or bad is the same as saying money is the root of all evil. ok, are the bark of a tree which is made into paper or the minerals that is used to make the metals evil? to be honest its the person that will do anything for money that is evil. for example if you give someone power, over an extended time you will be able to test the limits of which they can be corrupted.

there is evidence that there are priests in Rome and throughout the world that have raped children, but should we blame Christianity or should we blame these men. our prisons are full of men and women who are and are not religious, but when something bad happens and the perpetrator claims it is for religious value, the blame goes to his religious view rather than the fact that he is a living breathing human being capable of making his own decisions.

wars are not always religious but religion is often used as an excuse. once religion can no longer be used as an excuse these people will think of something else.

I don’t know if many of you know this but the slave trade between Europe, Africa and America was accepted because the traders admitted documents saying they were going to Africa for Christian missionary work. sure it is true that they made Christians, but also enslaved these Christians in the process. their churches in Angola and Senegal were built on top of underground dungeons, which were used to break the spirit of the slaves before sending them on the ships to America. their churches had a long hole in the middle of the room so the slave trader can watch their slaves while they were praying. these slaves were chained together with no food or clean water, people often died of disease and malnourishment or even go in a state of shock due to the build up of stress and poor conditions. these people who called themselves Christians had no understanding of what Christianity is.

but even though the slave traders were Christians should their faith be blamed for their selfish misdeeds or should the person who committed these acts be blamed. I understand why people hate religion but dose the fact that good and well educated people are religious mean nothing?

I am a Christian and my older brother is Muslim, choices made by ourselves. not because it was bred into us, but because we have the right to think what we want (free will).

also the bible shouldn’t be taken the way many Christians do. it is literally a story of the creation of us humans and the way we have developed and the way we should try and live our life. taking the bible too seriously isn’t good because we have to remember that even though it is the gospel and the words of god it was still written by a human from a human point of view. and what was accepted as a part of life then is not true for us today. we don’t have to live it like a text book, but look at it, learn from it, take advice from it and if your lucky live a better life from it. we shouldn’t think it is fact and none of it is wrong or misleading. I watched an interesting program on national geographic which explained that there is text missing from the bible, but oh well its too late to recover what has already been destroyed.

Evolution... something that is not fact but has shown signs of being real. I honestly think evolution is real even though it may be more complex than we think. remember evolution and natural selection happens at many different levels and is partly the reason why each living organism is different. but people saying you cant believe in evolution if your Christian is ludicrous. the bible doesn’t state that humans came before animals it just mentions humans first.

as for the pope, well I believe that good people get into heaven but the pope isn’t more likely to go to heaven than me or you. he is not a higher being but a human, so he follows the rules the same as all of us. he is nothing more than a physical manifestation made by Rome to put a body to heaven. he and all of the other priests don’t deserve to be worshiped.

and now the big question is God real? well to be honest I have no idea. I’ll like to think there is something out there which is why I have faith but I’m not sure. I’ll like you to remember the story of moses, he describes how he sees a flaming bush and which said it was god. I personally dont take very much from the story of moses because it seems too unearthly at parts, but the flaming tree has always stayed in my mind. I think its because if god dose exist the chances are it is a pure energy. and as you know an energy cannot be created or destroyed only redirected. for example: vibrations create heat, heat creates light and so on. so if god is real it will be in the form of pure energy of some sort maybe resemble a flame or bright light.

but the fact that energy cannot be created sparks the question, how did the big bang happen? the thing is supposedly there was nothing before, so nothing could of triggered the big bang. honestly if there was an explosion so big that it can create new Worlds and whole galaxies something huge must of sparked it. I study biology but focus on zoology (the study of animals) and if you ask many biologist what is consciousness they will simply say they don’t know for the simple fact that we don’t understand what it is. why do dogs show affection to there owner even if their owner abuses them? what makes a cat feel fear or a human feel love? these are things we don’t know as scientists, but science is in itself another form of faith.

faith in the human mind.

my aim from this post was not to change anybody into a religious person, but just to let you know that having an open mind is a good thing. Not everything is how it looks at first glance.

@pooty: Hello Pooty, Erik here. I just wanted to say that your posts are always so well constructed and careful thought put into them. Even though we hold different views (I'm atheist), you always address faith (others and even your own) with critical thinking. It's refreshing to see in a religion thread.

I think i answered all, pardon me if i missed any.

On that meaning bit, you're wrong IMO. There isn't a "main" or a "secondary" meaning. You have to give life a meaning. Saving people, adventuring, surviving to see another day, etc... Find one wich fits you the most. Just make sure you'll be happy with it :)

There is a goal you born with to do, and you have the ability to create secondary goals as you mentioned :) but that's part of my belief like the belief in the bold statement of yours.

@mastermercenary: before I answer your questions i'm going to make a thread. I think your entire assumption of atheist is wrong. I have spoken to many atheist and not ONE has said "because we got here by chance my life has no meaning". You are not an atheist nor am I. So we shouldn't ASSUME to know how they think. Therefore i'm going to ask atheist that question. I will respond after I see what they have to say

@immovableray: The way you phrased the sentence. You made it seem as if religion is a plague to humanity, when in fact it is not. So please inform me on how religion is a plague.

Wow I didn't expect such an easy request. Religion is a plague, in a sense that, like a plague, it is responsible for pointless yet countless deaths. It serves no purpose at all other than to hold back society. Example? The Dark Ages. IT was A) Extremely religion and B) A time of utter ignorance and danger.

@darthvxder: Greetings!! Deist are Creationists. We believe some intelligent being, force or power intentionally created us. We don't believe that this "Creator" wrote any books or created religion. The Creator made us with a mind, emotions etc and lets us live our lives. The Creator may affect our lives from time to time. It may have an ultimate purpose for us. But we're not sure. The Creator is neither all good or all evil. Feel free to ask any other questions!!

@cable_extreme: typo: billions

@king_saturn: Just to clarify, i said A Creator created us intentionally not specifically. Meaning when The Creator set things in motion, he knew humans would exist at some point. Is that different from what you believe?

@mastermercenary: By your standards they didn't give meaningful answers. By my standards you didn't give a meaningful answer, no offense.

Let me simplifies the situation more for you..

1. Atheism> Believing in Evolution is inevitable> Belief of life as product of chance> no reasons and no goals> Survival of the fittest.

2. Atheist like @i_am_lightning> Admits how valuable the life is > Claim that nobody has the right to murder someone.

Did you see the contradiction? I have more but this is enough. When Atheist make a rebellion against nature, it ends his Atheism.

I even told you that I am all with you, because they know how valuable the existence is.. But Atheism itself doesn't .

You said our life is a test. Nothing more. Nothing less. So, my entire life is just to do what another being wants to me do? That's not meaningful IMO. If it's MY life let me live it without fearing I'll be punished for believing in the wrong thing.

And I also said to follow the guide that the God has approved. Have you read it? You can do whatever you want if it's not prohibited. The revelations that God has approved is perfect. It is full, being a Muslim doesn't mean you'll pray at the mosque and do whatsoever outside like the other religions, Islam is a way of living, it's is the only religion as far as I know which has a system from the Revelations (Shari'ah Law). Your minor goals will be a part of your major goal. Your life is a blessing, shouldn't we be grateful? "Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned". If the da’wah (message of Islam) has not reached in a correct manner as it came in the Shari'ah, you will be considered one of Ahl al Fatra (People of the Interval) and at the judgement day a messenger will invite you to Islam, but I think the message of Islam reached you so it's you turn to accept it or reject it. Be a witness on how merciful Allah is with His creation.

Justice: Torture is NEVER justice. Torture is sadistic. Think of every person you've heard of that tortures people. Why is your God using those same cruel tactics? Also, there is no justice in his punishment. Do I deserve the same punishment as Hitler? Does a person who steals a candy bar deserve the same punishment as a mass murderer?

Are you one of those too empathetic and so sympathetic people? Isn't imprisonment considered a torture? How can you take away the freedom of a human being? It's so cruel!!! I wish you got how close-sighted this view is. And no, you don't deserve the same punishment as Hitler. There is levels of "torture", and you didn't do what Hitler have done to have the same punishment as he has.

"That is because your Lord would not destroy the cities for wrongdoing while their people were unaware. And for all are degrees from what they have done. And your Lord is not unaware of what they do." [6:129-130].

Equality: People are equal. Equal doesn't mean exactly the same. It means they have the same value. And God doesn't consider all people equal. He favors those who obey him.

That was my response to materialistic Atheists who don't believe in the metaphysics. They are a big physical difference among the people. Is the intelligent like the insane? are they the same in the physical traits? Do you know what Hitler did to make his people reach the requirements of being at the top of evolution ladder? But you are a Deist who believes in the metaphysics so you believe in morals too. God favors those who obey him, that's true, because He is fair and just. Or do you want for those who obey to be like the disobedient? Allah will account what you have did with your own will, but would he punish you because you are black?

I never said our life has no meaning. I said it is "possible" that life has no meaning. To clarify, i believe life has meaning.

Your original post said that atheist should have no problem with killing because they feel life has no meaning. You understand there is a difference between killing and murder. I have no problem with killing. But have a huge problem with murder.

Can you define killing (intentionally with no moral reason) and murder? Which one happens in the wild? Aren't we evolved animals? Why animals can do that but we can't?

Also, just because you need to believe in a higher power or after life to give your life meaning doesn't mean everyone has to believe those things to have a meaningful life.

You believe in a creator, what are his traits? What do you even know about him? Isn't he a higher power? Can't he resurrect us after the death? How could he be just without punishing the bad and rewarding the good?

I feel this is the only life i have so it makes me appreciate it even more. I have to make this life mean something because it's the only life i have.

Of course, you would appreciate it more, but from militaristic point of view, there is nothing prevent you from taking that away from others or yourself thanks to SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST and EVOLUTION.

Someone should tell me what God thinks about this; because apparently the bible condones it. Crazy people condemn Muslim's for doing this stuff in the Middle East and then we have Christian's who practically rape their wives because the bible says it's okay.