#11001 Posted by WillPayton (9833 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

@oblivionknight said:

@jorgevy: well, I'm not entirely sure. I know there was a case involving their protest of someone's funeral, but the jury found in favor of them I believe.

I will take a guess and assume that their freedom of religion, assembly, and speech are what's saving their butts. However, states can designate spots for them to go in a totally legal manner. So, if the funeral is held at Joes cemetery (just a random example), the only place they can assemble may be 200 yards away. That way, people driving by can see them voice their opinions (and laugh derisively, I hope) and the people at the funeral do not get disturbed. It's brilliant at shutting them up.

that does seem like a super cool way of keeping them at bay ehehehhe :D you americans are devils with your plans! should do more of it

Some people have done this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/06/texas-am-students_n_1653002.html

...

Hundreds of Texas A&M students gathered this week to form a human wall around the funeral service of a soldier to protect his family from Westboro Baptist Church protesters, KBTX.com reports.

Texas A&M alum Lt. Col. Roy Tisdale died on June 28 during a safety briefing at Fort Bragg, N.C. Tisdale was killed by another soldier who then fatally shot himself.

Tisdale had served in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the days after the soldier's death, word spread that Westboro Baptist Church members were planning to protest Tisdale's funeral.

Described as a "homophobic and anti-Semitic hate group" by the Anti-Defamation League, Westboro Baptist Church regularly stages protests around the country.

According to KBTX.com, the group, which is based in Kansas, frequently targets military funerals because of "a belief that God punishes soldiers because of America's tolerance of gays."

When Ryan Slezia, a former Texas A&M student, heard of the group's plans, he hatched a plot to foil their efforts.

"In response to their signs of hate, we will wear maroon. In response to their mob anger, we will form a line, arm in arm. This is a silent vigil. A manifestation of our solidarity," hewrote on Facebook, inviting others to join him in a peaceful protest.

On Thursday, as Tisdale's funeral was held at the Central Baptist Church in College Station, Tex., hundreds of students and alumni responded to Slezia's invation, linking arms to create a human barricade surrounding the church's entrance.

Most wore maroon -- A&M's school color. One participant tweeted that over 650 people showed up, creating a formidable "maroon wall."

“We are standing here quietly. We are here for the family,” Lilly McAlister, a Texas A&M student, told KBTX.com. "We are positioned with our backs to them. Everyone has been told there's no chanting, no singing, there's no yelling anything back."

The hundreds gathered were prepared for a potentially aggressive confrontation, but the protestors from Westboro Baptist Church never showed up.

One participant tweeted:

#MaroonWall at Central Baptist. No sign of Westboro .... hope they aren't too intimidated. twitter.com/erica_peaslee/…

— Erica Peaslee (@erica_peaslee) July 5, 2012

Tisdale's body was peacefully laid to rest after the funeral at the Aggie Field of Honor -- a cemetery for Texas A&M students and staff.

#11002 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: well, if he isn't even powerful enough to make an elephant talk, why call it God?

@jorgevy: Do you have an idea of what your country would do with these lunatics? Jail, hopefully?

probably sue them and some jail time. they would totally have to pay up some money I'm sure. I'm no law expert but at least that's the idea I have, since you know, we do have some lunatics like that but they never do this kind of stuff otherwise they get jailed and stuff

the reason I asked about the difamation laws and stuff it's because I'm pretty sure here, they would go to jail because of that. like, if you call the president a clown, he can sue you. if you call someone a prostitute, they can sue you. obviously no one does that because it's petty things, but you can do it and on a larger scale - example: Westboros - it probably would be done

#11003 Posted by WillPayton (9833 posts) - - Show Bio

And:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/krystle-campbell-funeral_n_3131310.html

...

Krystle Campbell, one of the three people who died in last week's Boston Marathon bombing, will have her funeral protected by a "human shield" of Teamsters on Monday, in case protesters from the Westboro Baptist Church show up and rally as they said they intended to do.

On Sunday, Sean O’Brien, head of Teamsters Local 25, asked his fellow union members to participate in protecting mourners at the ceremony, which is set for 11 a.m. on Monday:

Teamsters Local 25 will be out in full force tomorrow morning at St. Joseph’s Church in Medford to form a human shield and block the Westboro Baptist Church from protesting the funeral of Krystle Campbell. The Campbell family and friends have already endured immeasurable amounts of heartache and tragedy this week, and deserve a peaceful funeral with time to grieve privately.

Westboro Baptist Church should understand that we will go to great lengths to make sure they don't protest any funerals of the victims of the past week’s tragedies, and that those we lost receive a proper burial.

Local 25 represents 11,000 hardworking men and women from the Boston area. O'Brien told the Boston Globe on Monday morning that he expected about 350 peopleto show up to form the human shield.

"It's the right thing to do," he said. "The family deserves a peaceful grieving process that's free from any coward-led group."

On Sunday, approximately 11,000 mourners attended Campbell's wake.

The anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church often protests funerals of public figures and members of the military. In announcing its attention to picket the funeral last week, Westboro said Massachusetts "invited this special wrath from God Almighty when it was the FIRST STATE to pass same-sex marriage."

#11004 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

@king_saturn: well, if he isn't even powerful enough to make an elephant talk, why call it God?

@oblivionknight said:

@jorgevy: Do you have an idea of what your country would do with these lunatics? Jail, hopefully?

probably sue them and some jail time. they would totally have to pay up some money I'm sure. I'm no law expert but at least that's the idea I have, since you know, we do have some lunatics like that but they never do this kind of stuff otherwise they get jailed and stuff

the reason I asked about the difamation laws and stuff it's because I'm pretty sure here, they would go to jail because of that. like, if you call the president a clown, he can sue you. if you call someone a prostitute, they can sue you. obviously no one does that because it's petty things, but you can do it and on a larger scale - example: Westboros - it probably would be done

Well God had trouble attacking people who had Iron Chariots... so perhaps God does have some limits.

:P

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#11005 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: that's sooo cool!!! good to see some people unite to do some good against those WBC dudes

BTW, why the heck do Westboros go after a soldier's funeral and a victim of a terrorist act? WTH does that have to do with religion? why does it "offend" them? I dont get it

@king_saturn:

what the heck are you talking about Saturn? what God are you talking about most importantly?

#11007 Edited by OblivionKnight (3347 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy: well, here you can definitely question the presidents decisions and criticize him. I'm sure you can call him a clown as well, although it may not be advised. However, you can't say that he does drugs or is a rapist, in either writing or speech. It works the same for other people.

Here, you can sue for anything, it's just a matter of if you will win or not.

#11008 Posted by WillPayton (9833 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

@willpayton:

that's sooo cool!!! good to see some people unite to do some good against those WBC dudes

BTW, why the heck do Westboros go after a soldier's funeral and a victim of a terrorist act? WTH does that have to do with religion? why does it "offend" them? I dont get it

Because they think these people were killed by God as a kind of revenge for America being evil, for gay marriage, and other shit like that. They hate Jews, homosexuals, Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, soldiers, and almost everyone else really.

Read more about them here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church#Anti-gay_picketing

#11009 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: that's describing battle tactics and such. but okay. who ever said I was talking about the Old Testament God? that one is not good, he wants people to kill babies and he send everyone to hell

#11010 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

" they picketed a local appliance store because it sold Swedish vacuum cleaners, which the church viewed as supportive of gay people because of Swedish prosecution of Åke Green, a pastor critical of homosexuality"

this one thing has literally nothing to do with the other one. I mean, like seriously. does that mean they don't eat food from other countries because they support gay marriage? do they live in their own secluded areas and have no outside contact except to go around doing this crap? ridiculous

and why picket other christian churches? most of them don't support gays either, wth? these guys just seem like a bunch of trolls

they even offend the army! that surely should be an offense to the nation and it's symbols

@oblivionknight said:

@jorgevy: well, here you can definitely question the presidents decisions and criticize him. I'm sure you can call him a clown as well, although it may not be advised. However, you can't say that he does drugs or is a rapist, in either writing or speech. It works the same for other people.

Here, you can sue for anything, it's just a matter of if you will win or not.

well yeah, pretty much the same, except here it's less advised to call ugly names. unless you have proof, in that case you can call anyone what you want, if you prove it

#11011 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

@king_saturn: that's describing battle tactics and such. but okay. who ever said I was talking about the Old Testament God? that one is not good, he wants people to kill babies and he send everyone to hell

Well it's something God could not do at the time... other apologists try to say it was Judah's lack of faith that caused God to not do the feat... but there are serious issues with that claim.

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#11012 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

but that's a God. who says that God could make an elephant talk? another one might

besides, I can't take much seriously anyone who still reads the whole bible literally and not metaphorically /contextually

#11013 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18744 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@jorgevy: Thank you. <3

A few pages back there's a link to a controversy generated when a gentleman who won a seat on his city's council didn't swear on a bible when about to take office. He said something along the lines of holding true to himself or something along those lines.

Here it is.

(the volume for some reason was super loud for me (if you play the video)

@laflux said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@lykopis said:

Pfft we have Darwin on our notes

ALL RULEZ BRITANNIA!!!!!!!

Yeah, yeah -- the base of that mirror looks like a cross to me...

And just for the record, your imagination @laflux is a bit frightening.

Ha ha

#11014 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18744 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@lykopis: @king_saturn: @mrdecepticonleader: @willpayton:

While this Cartoon is Disturbing, I'm pretty sure that this is a cartoon for Jehovah's witnesses. Mostly for the continuous peddling of the word Jehovah as a substitute for words like "Jesus" or "God". Now using it once is all well and good, but again and again and again? The fact that its being used as a source to young kids, enforces this IMO- as that name is really important to them- hence their name, while for Evangelical Christians (which is the only real alternative) only really use it to be fancy, and really as a requisite for young kids anyways.

Still, its not like this piece of shoddy propaganda (I'd admit the animation is actually not to bad) is not exclusive to this religion, just go and watch the fall on YouTube.

On another note, an Awesome parody of this video would revolve around the Kid walking in on his mum cheating with another girl (I'm assuming that the characters are part of traditional family), with the Toy being actively being used (use your imagination guys- and if you don't have one, pretend). To rub it in, one of them should finish shouting the word of the Wizard in question, followed by the words "That was......... magic".

And then as a finishing touch, the girl who isn't the mother, should have a snake tattoo that looks just like the one the kid imagines, except that its winking and situated in a way that means its facing right at the Boy.

As I said this ad is really only the tip of iceberg as in regards to religious propaganda.

Ha ha ha ha ha!

#11015 Edited by kuonphobos (4931 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: Apparently elephants speak German. Who knew?

@willpayton I think of the Republican Party as the Party of Mammon. On the whole it is about as Christian as the crusaders were.

#11016 Edited by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

@king_saturn:

but that's a God. who says that God could make an elephant talk? another one might

besides, I can't take much seriously anyone who still reads the whole bible literally and not metaphorically /contextually

Well supposedly this same God made a Donkey / Mule talk...

Are you implying that you only take people seriously who reads the whole Bible metaphorically ?

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#11017 Posted by consolemaster001 (6132 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: didn't they say in their twitter page "GOD SENT THE BOMBS" ?

#11018 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

What if God was a duck?

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#11019 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11020 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I'm too lazy to find a screenshot of the infamous RABBIT SEASON/DUCK SEASON episode, but if I wasn't, I'd upload a picture of Bugs dressed up like a duck.

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#11021 Posted by consolemaster001 (6132 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: Duck amuck is the funniest cartoon i've ever watched.

#11022 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

@king_saturn:

but that's a God. who says that God could make an elephant talk? another one might

besides, I can't take much seriously anyone who still reads the whole bible literally and not metaphorically /contextually

Well supposedly this same God made a Donkey / Mule talk...

Are you implying that you only take people seriously who reads the whole Bible metaphorically ?

well, donkey's must be easier to make talk than elephants... or maybe Iron is the God's kryptonite? or maybe the God just trolled the Israelis?

no, not implying anything. I'm just saying, I can't take seriously in intellectual matters, anyone that literally thinks we came from Adam and Eve, that we were made from dirt and that several other stuff in the bible really happened exactly like it says it did.
there needs to be some interpretation and metaphorical understanding when reading most religious texts. you also must understand the context in which they were made. and most important of all, you must understand it was made by men, just like yourself, and not God who magically came down and wrote everything, printed and then gave to all the boys and girls.

#11023 Edited by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I'm too lazy to find a screenshot of the infamous RABBIT SEASON/DUCK SEASON episode, but if I wasn't, I'd upload a picture of Bugs dressed up like a duck.

LOL

@king_saturn: Duck amuck is the funniest cartoon i've ever watched.

That was a Classic...

@jorgevy said:

@king_saturn said:

@jorgevy said:

@king_saturn:

but that's a God. who says that God could make an elephant talk? another one might

besides, I can't take much seriously anyone who still reads the whole bible literally and not metaphorically /contextually

Well supposedly this same God made a Donkey / Mule talk...

Are you implying that you only take people seriously who reads the whole Bible metaphorically ?

well, donkey's must be easier to make talk than elephants... or maybe Iron is the God's kryptonite? or maybe the God just trolled the Israelis?

no, not implying anything. I'm just saying, I can't take seriously in intellectual matters, anyone that literally thinks we came from Adam and Eve, that we were made from dirt and that several other stuff in the bible really happened

exactly

like it says it did.

there needs to be some interpretation and metaphorical understanding when reading most religious texts. you also must understand the context in which they were made. and most important of all, you must understand it was made by men, just like yourself, and not God who magically came down and wrote everything, printed and then gave to all the boys and girls.


1. Perhaps... I would still love to see an Elephant talk... preferably in English.

2. Ah, I gotcha.

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#11024 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: you can always play Mass Effect. the Elcors are close enough to that and I actually think they are cooler than any talking elephant could ever be

#11025 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: you can always play Mass Effect. the Elcors are close enough to that and I actually think they are cooler than any talking elephant could ever be

#11026 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

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#11027 Posted by WillPayton (9833 posts) - - Show Bio

So... interesting video and I've heard these arguments before. I'm not sure they're convincing arguments because they rely too much on the definition of things like "what is perfectly good", "what does it mean to be omnipotent", and "why cant a 'potentially evil' being be all good"... etc.

Unfortunately this is the game that William Lane Craig plays, and why I'm generally not a fan of this type of philosophy, especially when trying to argue for or against things like "God". Too many assumptions, too many undefined concepts as premises, and too much wiggle room, so to speak. Also, if we're talking about a god where, by definition, anything he/she/it does is "good", then I'm not sure it's meaningful to ask whether such a god can not be good, or whether it violates omnipotence. Even if we agree it does mean he's not truly omnipotent... so what? It's only humans claiming that. AFAIK God didnt actually show up yesterday claiming to be "truly omnipotent". And who'd care if he's truly omnipotent or only mostly omnipotent? This is mainly just a means for pseudo-philosophers like WLC to wank on and make others think how smart he is.

Lastly, I think that any concept that involves things like infinity, omnipotence, eternity, and ideas like them is inherently flawed because it's inherently unrealistic... as in, doesnt actually exist in the universe. In physics, any time you get infinities in your equations you know something probably went horribly wrong. In math, there's the problematic nature of what is infinity and which infinities are bigger than other infinities. Until not long ago people thought that all infinities were the same, but now we believe that some infinities are bigger than others. In any case, in math infinity is just a concept, it's not an actual number.

Anyway, something for you guys to contemplate. That's my own bit of pseudo-philosophizing... =)

#11028 Posted by kuonphobos (4931 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not entirely certain that the classic ideas of "omnipotent" (the "omnis") etc are biblical or would have been on the minds of ancient and First Century Jews. I believe that they crept in from Greek philosophy through Aquinas or someone similar.

Some might say they started having influence with the teachings of Paul but I would reply that while he was aware of them as a Pharisee his filter was staunchly Jewish.

This in no way diminishes the influence and impact of these ideas throughout subsequent theological history (in the West at least) but it is something to consider.

I follow a school of thought which desires to strip away all influences which crept into theology after the First Century and the formulations established in the canonical texts.

#11029 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

Right On Brother !

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#11030 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18744 posts) - - Show Bio

#11031 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

I remember when my uncle told me his wife was a demon who had sprouted wings and flew out of his house... now granted this was when he was fairly sick at the time and we didn't know until he started talking like this... he was talking about how he was married to a demon and wanted a divorce... then when he had gotten really sick and he had to go to the hospital the doctors told us about how his sickness was causing him to hallucinate and see things and that the medication would help bring him back to earth mentally... so after he started getting better we would mess with him about how he was talking about his wife being a demon and he claims he doesn't remember that stuff.

I really think he is lying and just don't want to admit that he does... LOL

on a side note, I felt sorry for Auntie... she had to put up with some serious sh!t when he was sick.

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#11032 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

Your story about your uncle is kind of scary. There's been people who believed loved ones were demons and went on to kill them. Just like those poor children in Africa who are told are witches and sent away to die -- except in those cases, it wasn't a physical ailment that could be treated but rather the blind faith in a woman who declares she speaks and listens to a god directly.

Your poor aunt (and uncle). He must have been terrified thinking his wife was a demon.

#11033 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@king_saturn:

Your story about your uncle is kind of scary. There's been people who believed loved ones were demons and went on to kill them. Just like those poor children in Africa who are told are witches and sent away to die -- except in those cases, it wasn't a physical ailment that could be treated but rather the blind faith in a woman who declares she speaks and listens to a god directly.

Your poor aunt (and uncle). He must have been terrified thinking his wife was a demon.

Indeed... it was a gradual shifting in mental for him so we knew something wasn't right... I mean he did not always think she was a demon... it just came out of no where.

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#11034 Posted by pooty (11786 posts) - - Show Bio

@supernategames This is why I believe Jesus/God is real: The Bible is way too complex to have been made up. If it is made up then the man who wrote it must have been a genius because some parts of the talk about real people or things that happened like Xerxes from 300.

What do you find complex about the Bible?

#11035 Edited by pooty (11786 posts) - - Show Bio

I always hear pro choice people say that Christians or religious people are the main people against abortions. My question is: WHO ARE THE PEOPLE GETTING ALL THE ABORTIONS?!

#11036 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

I always hear pro choice people say that Christians or religious people are the main people against abortions. My question is: WHO ARE THE PEOPLE GETTING ALL THE ABORTIONS?!

The same people as the Christians or Religious People who watch Porn... they are not going to come out and tell you who they are... but you know there has to be an abundance of them.

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#11037 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

#11038 Edited by Jnr6Lil (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

#11039 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

#11040 Posted by pooty (11786 posts) - - Show Bio

@jnr6lil said:

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

No one can say with all certainty whether God is real or not. I believe in a Creator as you do. But I don't believe the Bible was written by that Creator aka God. Why do you have faith that the Bible is the word of God?

#11041 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18744 posts) - - Show Bio

#11042 Posted by consolemaster001 (6132 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: @king_saturn:

Have you guys seen this ? One of the few (if not the only) DarkMatter2525 vids i agree with. Really portrays the hypocrisy among people (not just christians but all groups.)

#11043 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: @king_saturn:

Have you guys seen this ? One of the few (if not the only) DarkMatter2525 vids i agree with. Really portrays the hypocrisy among people (not just christians but all groups.)

I have seen just about all of DarkMatter2525's video catalog...

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#11044 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18744 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: Yeah I have seen it before. And atheists are still not on even footing because religion as a whole still fits in with social norms. Especially in more religious countries such as the US.

#11045 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7889 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@jnr6lil said:

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

No one can say with all certainty whether God is real or not. I believe in a Creator as you do. But I don't believe the Bible was written by that Creator aka God. Why do you have faith that the Bible is the word of God?

Don't think people over generations would just make it up, no point.

#11046 Posted by King Saturn (225209 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the Best Videos I have seen in a While...

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#11047 Edited by kuonphobos (4931 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@jnr6lil said:

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

No one can say with all certainty whether God is real or not. I believe in a Creator as you do. But I don't believe the Bible was written by that Creator aka God. Why do you have faith that the Bible is the word of God?

I know you didn't ask me this question but I though I might share a few thoughts.

I am not at all sure what you mean by "word of God" nor that what I mean by it would be the same thing that you mean. However I do take a somewhat "scientific" perspective in my understanding of the Bible's authority for YHWH's self revelation to humanity. For me it begins with the historical study of the "collection". Then I consider the internal cohesiveness across the entire "collection" considering the historical transmission. I consider it's various genres and it's specific intent. I don't find it authoritative concerning subjects for which it has no concern such as Intelligent Design. In the end it is a chronicle of YHWH's activity within human history and the message He desires to be made known.

But there is also a theological aspect as well. Basically it comes down to my understanding of God's sovereign shepherding of the transmission of the "collection" through it's human authorship and editing process. I realize that this claim basically comes down to faith and is subjective. But it is reinforced by the things I described above and due to those things I don't believe that it can be flippantly dismissed based upon it's age or the limited presuppositions of modernity.

#11048 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: I actually watched that video, and while it is satisfactory in addressing the problems of a God who actually i supposed to give a damn about what we do, it doesn't really counter the concept of a god who literally doesn't give a f^ck either way about our existence.

#11049 Edited by geardawks (32 posts) - - Show Bio

None of this is a reply to anyone, just my thoughts.

The idea of a god to me is plausible and quite appealing, but I just can't give myself to thrown in with it. There could very well be an afterlife, a reason for everything, a god, etc. But because there is no proof as of now, I can't buy it.

The idea of praising a god who created the universe, enabled life to exist, is all knowing, all seeing, and all that jazz, doesn't sound half bad to me. In fact, I think I'd like that a lot. The insurance of knowing that when you die you get to live an eternal life of happiness in heaven, if you follow what god says and not do bad things, would be awesome! But alas, I just can't subscribe to the idea of "having faith".

Until someone can prove to me that god exists and that their holy scripture is right (no matter what religion), I'll continue being "that guy who thinks that when we die, nothing happens".

#11050 Posted by pooty (11786 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@jnr6lil said:

At the end of the day I can't tell you if God is real or not, I just have faith he is.

No one can say with all certainty whether God is real or not. I believe in a Creator as you do. But I don't believe the Bible was written by that Creator aka God. Why do you have faith that the Bible is the word of God?

I know you didn't ask me this question but I though I might share a few thoughts.

I am not at all sure what you mean by "word of God" nor that what I mean by it would be the same thing that you mean. However I do take a somewhat "scientific" perspective in my understanding of the Bible's authority for YHWH's self revelation to humanity. For me it begins with the historical study of the "collection". Then I consider the internal cohesiveness across the entire "collection" considering the historical transmission. I consider it's various genres and it's specific intent. I don't find it authoritative concerning subjects for which it has no concern such as Intelligent Design. In the end it is a chronicle of YHWH's activity within human history and the message He desires to be made known.

But there is also a theological aspect as well. Basically it comes down to my understanding of God's sovereign shepherding of the transmission of the "collection" through it's human authorship and editing process. I realize that this claim basically comes down to faith and is subjective. But it is reinforced by the things I described above and due to those things I don't believe that it can be flippantly dismissed based upon it's age or the limited presuppositions of modernity.

Word of God as in God told people to write the Bible. The Bible does have an incredible amount of cohesion but it also has severe contradictions. sometimes in the same books the writer contradict themselves and other writers. Much of the historic things in the Bible are not supported by historical evidence. Many of the kings that Moses, Joshua conquered are not mentioned in any book other then the Bible. Then there is a MAJOR change in the tone, laws of the Bible between the OT and NT. The things you say about the Bible can also apply to the Koran. Do you believe the Koran is inspired by God also?