Religion… What do you think?

I know, I'm saying the problem is no separation of church and state and no real freedom of speech.

@lady_liberty: You already said that. I doubt if I gave my thoughts again it would do anything but take it in circles.

I have no problem with people using religion in their personal lives...but I do have a problem when they use religion to legislate everyone else's lives. Religion and politics should never mix.

Agreed!

A great watch regarding Islam, mates!

@king_saturn: Sorry for the rate leply.

Anyways i didn't complain about discussions about religion. My beef is with the people who turn a civil discussion into a heated argument. I didn't accuse you of doing so.

Anyways i think you misunderstood me. I was talking about "salaah" which is muslim prayer. The prayer that you mentioned is different from "Salaah". Non-muslims probably think prayer as just wanting things from god. Salaah is not like that. In fact i made a clear distinction between the two in the initial post. Salaah is where we not only ask from god, but we also praise him and thank him. The prayer that non-muslims are familliar with (wanting things from god) is called "the dua". So knowing the positive effects salaah has on the soul is something based on experience. So telling that to a non muslim is like trying to tell a vegetarian who never ate meat, how delicious stake is. Either i wasn't clear enough or you misunderstood :)

Kind of odd how the same people dominate and control these conversations...

Buddy, I think you shot yourself in the foot with this response.

Prayer whether it is from Christian or Muslim or Jew is all the same... your description proves it. When you went into detail about Salaah you just described everyone's style of praying to the Abrahamic God... yeah, sometimes I would thank god or praise him in prayer as well... there is nothing special about the style of Muslim Prayer that you described. It all works the same way with Christians, Muslims, Jews... now you may want to believe otherwise because your faith tells you so. Unfortunately kiddo, you would be wrong. So with that said, essentially you have justified the fact that you don't need to pray Five Times a Day to God... because Jews and Christians don't do it and yet they pray with the same style of Salaah Prayer and yet they live very Satisfying Lives.

For the most part, I view it as the same as you do. What Christians call the soul is something I would call the totality of ways in which we think, feel, act and behave. I see it as a mixture of the biological processes of the brain and the 'ghost in the machine' associated with Gilbert Ryle along with his behaviourism and the soul being a misunderstanding in our language. Much like how the word 'university' refers to the buildings as a whole to the bemusement of the foreign tourist.

BTW, are you the guy who's accused of derailing the Christian thread (which I only found out existed yesterday) and who some Christian Viners seem to be having a go at?

@king_saturn: "there's nothing special about salaah"

Are you sure ? http://www.howmuslimspray.com/

"Jews and christians do the same"

Last time i checked christians usually don't recite bible verses in aramaic (the religions original language) during prayer or start by saying "In the name of god". Both of which muslims do. Or they don't have a call to prayer like muslims do (the allahu akbar, allahu akbar thing you hear at mosques).

Btw i was talking about non muslims interpertation of our prayers not that they only pray for said purposes.

I also never said you'd be miserable without praying 5 times a day. So stop repeating the same things thank you.

Also praying 5 times a day is exclusive for muslims. If you're a non muslim who feels that praying 5 times a day is unnecessary then that is your opinion that concerns you.

Well I guess you can think of it in a poetic sense and call what we have that make us, us a soul. But I am not really keen on the term to be honest. I tend to stick to the fact I have no soul due to the fact all the evidence points to that I have no need for such a concept.

So because you think talking to God in an ancient language you think this scores points with your Prayers to God ? Heh, that's Funny... Also, Christians and Jews don't have to have a call to Prayer, they just do that in Traditions of the Church or Family Settings but it's not Mandatory.

So how have you demonstrated that Muslim Prayer is different than Jewish or Christian Prayer ? Other than you speak to God in a different language as if God is somehow going to be flabbergasted because billions of people speak to him in English or Chinese or Hebrew or Spanish instead of Aramaic.

Well you said earlier that praying 5 times a day was important because it was nourishing for the soul... inciting that not doing it would lead to unhealthy practices. But whatever.

Okay, but again why is it needed for Muslims if essentially happiness can be attained with only one or two prayers daily as well ?

I was hoping we could eventually get to the issues of why you Muslim folks like to have your Women dress up like Shinobi or Ermac from Mortal Kombat 9... but it maybe too much of an issue for you to deal with that too eh ?

@mrdecepticonleader: thanks for answering, my friend. Nothing like being ignored by the majority in favor of the "damn Muslim terrorists" argument in the Religion thread.

@lvenger: sorry for the delay; I'm on my smartphone and don't have access to all the amenities. Yes, I'm one of the two guys under attack on that other thread. I'm trying to talk it out peacefully but some others alternate between ignoring and accusing. I'm honestly astounded the mods have allowed this long, considering their ranting. In any case, could you pm me if you want to continue this discussion? I would've responded in a pm if I could from this device. But, yes; and thanks. It's nice to know that not everyone is ignoring my posts!

I am going to answer this question in the spirit that you don't mean to be assumptive as to the answer. It's not an either/or -- people are well within their rights to criticize and/or condemn anything or anyone who advocates, encourages and enforces the subjugation of an entire gender and atrocities to their own people under the rule of law which follows those found within religious texts. They do not need to be beating down the doors of their own governments for domestic issues along the lines of equal rights in order to do so -- I am quite comfortable with the prospect of getting paid $0.77 per hour as compared to a male co-worker in the same job while demanding change in a country where a young girl gets shot through the head for trying to go to school.

And yes, I do "speak up" for equal rights in my own country, as do all those who vote in democratic elections. Unlike women in Islamic states who are denied to do so.

Poetic sense -- introspection -- in a lot of ways a kind of conscience. I believe my wanting to help others, enjoy the creations of humanity and beauty in the mundane and joy in interactions with other people reflections of my "soul".

Pretty much like you. :)

@lykopis: I do appreciate your responses although I do wonder about gender equality. In every job I've had, men and women were paid according to the scale of their jobs and experience; in administration, men tend to devote their attention to career advancement and many women take extended leave to have and raise children to school age then return to work and expect similar advancements to their male counterparts despite not being s productive to the organization, so I would be dubious of your statistics. But,as for how others live and let live in the Middle East, I have no say, no power; I can only attempt change here, where I am. The Muslims I've known haven't commuted acts of terrorism. But the "Christian" majority speaks volumes.

@docstrange:

My numbers are government derived, the numbers go lower when you go into the blue-collar sector and even more in the part-time. What's taken into account is not just what you brought forward but other factors as well in coming up with those numbers. Plus, in my country, we have not just maternity benefits but parental leave which although can also extend to the mother, more and more men have been taking advantage of for themselves in bonding with their newly born/adopted children. Your dubiousness notwithstanding, this is how things are where I am from.

You do have a say and you do have power in regards to the Middle East but I'm not going to through in any of my soapboxy rants on here. While I am relieved you don't know any Muslims who have commuted acts of terrorism (neither do I) but I tend to view the world as my home and not just my immediate environment (not saying that to pass judgment on your views).

I don't know about Christian majority speaking volumes -- if you mean in terms of this site, I was suspect there is a large portion of users who do identify with being Christian but again, I don't know what you mean about them speaking volumes?

DO YOU LIKE CHRISTIANS THREAD

Eh I like that we can discuss Islam on here its been long overdue. But then your post is as interesting too of course :)

TRIGGER WORDS! A MOD WILL BE AT YOUR HOME SOON TO PERFORM A STRIP SEARCH

I gotta say this too about the Collection Plate and Tithes... I find it astonishing that God is constantly having his Children ask for 10 percent of whatever the Believer makes and in some cases even more. Yeah I know what the Bible says about Tithing... but what the hell does God need with Money ? Sounds like some Greedy Humans trying to soak up funds from poor folks... and this used to really piss me off when we would go to Church and see all the Poor Folks giving away their funds to the Black Anti Monitor Preacher who just gobbles up dollars.

Penn University Prof Says Zimmerman Let Off Because God Is a ‘White Racist’

ROFL, what a moron. By all means ignore facts and the law. As if the tons of people turning the case into a race issue wasn't bad enough, now she foolishly throws religion into it?

<sigh>

I have that Megatron too and it is a wonderful toy.

@mrdecepticonleader: Megatron Toy is a lie! 30 damn dollars? I can buy 10 Chinese-made Transmorpherz (yes, that's the spelling) for the price of one US (by that I mean Taiwan-made) Transformer.

My point is that Megatron toy is to Church as Megathlone toys are to Megatron toy. Megatron toy is a cult I tells ya!

I really, really enjoyed that -- thanks so much for sharing it.

Transmorpherz sound like another of the endless cheap and crap quality knock off toys.

You're just jealous because you don't own one.

@mrdecepticonleader: I'm not jealous! I had dumble bee, and optimal prime, and devastationer, and dinorobots, and of course megathlone! They're not cheap knock offs! They're lead lined super cheap knock offs!

@lykopis: no worries. I would post the catholic as an evil institution debate with the late great Hithens as one of the panelists but I can't find it. It was one of the best debates with a great numbers result.

@ssejllenrad:

I am pretty sure I watched it already but I'll keep an eye out for it to share here. Anything with Hitchens is phenomenal.

@ssejllenrad: ha ha

@mrdecepticonleader: @mrdecepticonleader: @lykopis:

Why do I oppose religion? Here's just one reason why...

@willpayton: Yeah that advert is just incredibly obnoxious but because it involves religion so its okay to indoctrinate and influence children into a certain ideology. It also stinks of hypocrisy since the mum claims magic is evil or satanic yet god created the universe that is magic or Jesus coming down and walking on water. Pretty much all the stuff in religion that make it more of a religion constitutes as magic.

Also they just threw the toy in the rubbish that one of his friends gave him to borrow I mean that is just plain mean.

Sad thing is this advert is likely the tip of the iceberg in regards to how much children are brought up to believe in such delusions and myth.

@mrdecepticonleader: @willpayton:

That was extremely obnoxious but the part where he threw the toy in the garbage was hilarious ! And the line after it was the icing on the cake.

"YOU MADE MOMMY VERY HAPPY"

Also i don't think god would be happy with someone who threw away their friends gift. By their logic toy planes are a sin because planes kill people and satan loves killing.

Anyone who flies is obviously a witch... and must be burned! Burning witches makes mommy very happy!

Fantastic video -- I love the mentions of Sagan -- and just...a thing of clarity. That U2 was used seals it for me.

Uhm -- I am being sincere here, I really, really thought this was a parody. I am a bit horrified. I can't fathom this being shown to a child, if anything, shouldn't Jehovah love all things? The word hate -- it's heartbreaking this is really shown to children. They should title this "How To Crush Your Child's Spirit and Ensure He is Raised with Guilt and Fear of Mommy Not Loving Him Anymore."

Make me more sad than anything. How is that not abuse?

It was the Child's Fault... He should have dropped a Rock in the Garbage Can and hid The Toy in his Trousers...

:P

My family had a get together this weekend. My uncle "the pastor "blessed" the food. He gave one of the BEST prayers I have ever heard. it was heartfelt, honest and sincere. He really felt like he was talking to God and trying to help the family be safe. I know he is wasting his time but I give him an A+ for effort.

Pretty much. And this is pretty mild when you consider the indoctrination and propaganda some children grow up with, especially in places like the Middle East where they're raised thinking that Jews and westerners are evil and that holy war and martyrdom is a good thing. Not surprising at all that you get people growing up to abuse their own children like this, or simply become suicide bombers... they're already primed with this stuff.

Religion Messing Up The Brain !

Sad, but not uncommon. Remember all the idiots that sold their possessions, traumatized their children, and spent years preparing for the end of the world? Where are they now, I wonder?

I just cant believe people still believe stuff like this. I mean, I could understand it hundreds of years ago, but now? We have so much knowledge, so many opportunities for people to become educated and use their brains. It honestly makes me wonder about the future of the human race.

I don't get hatred towards god. This post would be targeting both the theists and atheists who proclaim hatred for god. If you're not among those, then don't feel like this post is meant for you and get offended.

There are a few atheists who hate the notion of god and go as far as blaspheming. Well isn't that just being offensive for the sake of offensive? Hate the religion. Hate the institution. But why hate something that you do not think exists, and then badmouth it? If it's sacred to some, should you just back-off and allow them to their beliefs? I mean yeah, hate on the moral policies that go against human decency. Hate on the hypocrisy. Hate on the bigotry. But leave them to their god. If he doesn't exist, let them believe what they wish. No point being offensive for the sake of pissing off a group of people that might probably cut your head off for the sake of their god.

That's one side of the coin. But what grinds my teeth more are theists who remain theists and blame all their troubles to their god. Ok you believe in an all-powerful being and he's making your life a mess. Now you're going to hate him? Ok, the fact that you think he makes your life miserable makes his all-good image compromised, doesn't it? And if he isn't all-good then your scriptures lied to you, didn't it? And if your scriptures is not perfect, then isn't it about time you re-evaluate your view of the scriptures? Why keep your belief that a supreme being exists when the source material that says he exists does contradicts itself by saying that god is all-good? He is either everything it says he is or not at all.

Just my 2 pence.

TBH I'm glad he threw away the toy. The workmanship was shoddy anyways.

Well, I can tell you that atheists dont hate God or the notion of god, since atheists dont believe there is a God. Some simply dont know if there is one, some actually believe there is no God... those are two different things. So when you ask "why hate something that you do not think exists", the answer is they dont. If you think atheists think that then you need to learn more about atheism. Most atheists would be perfectly happy never ever hearing about God, if it werent for the simple fact that it gets shoved down their throats all the damn time. Dont believe me? Are you American? If so... look at your money... it has "God" on it. Listen to any speech by the President, or Congress... they always mention God. Republicans... they're basically the Jesus Party, constantly trying to bring God into government and anywhere else they can manage... in spite of the fact that it violates the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. Think I'm making this up?

Here's some Republicans trying to make it so that you need to swear an oath and say "So help me God" before you can get your high school diploma.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/arizona-bills-require-con_n_2568131.html

Two Arizona lawmakers are stirring Constitutional debate and threats of legal action after introducing bills that would require the state's students to express love of country under God.

House Bill 2467, sponsored by Republican state Rep. Bob Thorpe, would require all public high school seniors to take an oath to "support and defend" the U.S. Constitution and proclaim, "so help me god." A second proposal, House Bill 2284sponsored by Republican state Rep. Steve Smith, would require all public 1-12 students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. The oath, as proposed by Thorpe, reads:

I, _______, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; So help me God.

@lykopis: Ha ha.

If you say so, but I can tell you I've never met an atheist that has any feelings whatsoever towards a thing they dont believe exists. That makes no sense. Maybe they dislike religion, or religious people, or something else... I dont know.

@willpayton: god dammit my post got deleted. I hate mobile. My point is that there a lot of atheists who proclaim their hatred of god. Don't tell me they don't exist because they do. I'm not generalizing atheists. I only said there are some who do what I said they do. I even specified in the first part of my post that it was only pertaining to such people. Not all.

The thing about that is people only do it to spite the religious. It is disrespectful and is only meant to be offensive.