#101 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

Historically no? Modern days yes.

Yup.

I think the old days is the zenith of the church power and they control politics like it was nothing. They hate to be wrong and use underhanded to diabolical machinations to achieve their goal.

#102 Posted by Batman242 (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@pyrogram said:

Historically no? Modern days yes.

Yup.

I think the old days is the zenith of the church power and they control politics like it was nothing. They hate to be wrong and use underhanded to diabolical machinations to achieve their goal.

The thing I don't like hearing is when people say that christianity has caused some of the worst things. You can't blame the religion, blame the ignorant followers. God said not to kill, and people still went ahead and killed in the name of God by the wishes of some false prophet.

I don't believe in religions anymore, but eh.

#103 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas said:

@batman242 said:

@pyrogram said:

Historically no? Modern days yes.

Yup.

I think the old days is the zenith of the church power and they control politics like it was nothing. They hate to be wrong and use underhanded to diabolical machinations to achieve their goal.

The thing I don't like hearing is when people say that christianity has caused some of the worst things. You can't blame the religion, blame the ignorant followers. God said not to kill, and people still went ahead and killed in the name of God by the wishes of some false prophet.

I don't believe in religions anymore, but eh.

But will you agree with me that religion is an efficient way of controlling the ignorant masses, promising them salvation to the unknown. As far as I know, man tend to fear what they do not understand.

#104 Posted by Batman242 (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@overlordarhas said:

@batman242 said:

@pyrogram said:

Historically no? Modern days yes.

Yup.

I think the old days is the zenith of the church power and they control politics like it was nothing. They hate to be wrong and use underhanded to diabolical machinations to achieve their goal.

The thing I don't like hearing is when people say that christianity has caused some of the worst things. You can't blame the religion, blame the ignorant followers. God said not to kill, and people still went ahead and killed in the name of God by the wishes of some false prophet.

I don't believe in religions anymore, but eh.

But will you agree with me that religion is an efficient way of controlling the ignorant masses, promising them salvation to the unknown. As far as I know, man tend to fear what they do not understand.

Years ago that worked. Now, that wouldn't work as well.... or maybe not at all.

#105 Posted by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing I don't like hearing is when people say that christianity has caused some of the worst things. You can't blame the religion, blame the ignorant followers. God said not to kill, and people still went ahead and killed in the name of God by the wishes of some false prophet.

God didnt say anything. People say things, people write things down, or they interpret stuff written in a text (the Bible, etc) in certain ways. Now, when you say "God said not to kill" you actually mean that someone told you this, or this is what you read in the Bible, or elsewhere. (or, are you claiming to actually hear voices from "God"?) Problem is that other people read the Bible and they interpret it in different ways. The Bible does, definitely, say that killing is fine in some cases, and there are many examples of God committing mass murder and genocide. So, it's not difficult to see where people can get the idea that killing others for [insert reason here] is something they need to be doing.

And while this is all the doing of people, the reason many do what they do and why others follow them is... religion.

#106 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas said:

@batman242 said:

@overlordarhas said:

@batman242 said:

@pyrogram said:

Historically no? Modern days yes.

Yup.

I think the old days is the zenith of the church power and they control politics like it was nothing. They hate to be wrong and use underhanded to diabolical machinations to achieve their goal.

The thing I don't like hearing is when people say that christianity has caused some of the worst things. You can't blame the religion, blame the ignorant followers. God said not to kill, and people still went ahead and killed in the name of God by the wishes of some false prophet.

I don't believe in religions anymore, but eh.

But will you agree with me that religion is an efficient way of controlling the ignorant masses, promising them salvation to the unknown. As far as I know, man tend to fear what they do not understand.

Years ago that worked. Now, that wouldn't work as well.... or maybe not at all.

I believe it is happening even know, go to any 3rd world country and you will see it.

#107 Edited by Batman242 (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: Oh yea, I was talking more about modernized countries anyway. Third world countries commit, but the modernized countries outweigh the third world countries.

@batman242 said:

The thing I don't like hearing is when people say that christianity has caused some of the worst things. You can't blame the religion, blame the ignorant followers. God said not to kill, and people still went ahead and killed in the name of God by the wishes of some false prophet.

God didnt say anything. People say things, people write things down, or they interpret stuff written in a text (the Bible, etc) in certain ways. Now, when you say "God said not to kill" you actually mean that someone told you this, or this is what you read in the Bible, or elsewhere. (or, are you claiming to actually hear voices from "God"?) Problem is that other people read the Bible and they interpret it in different ways. The Bible does, definitely, say that killing is fine in some cases, and there are many examples of God committing mass murder and genocide. So, it's not difficult to see where people can get the idea that killing others for [insert reason here] is something they need to be doing.

And while this is all the doing of people, the reason many do what they do and why others follow them is... religion.

Yea, the bible is all about interpretation. Over here (The Bahamas), gambling was made illegal to all Bahamians due to most of the Bahamians saying that gambling is evil. That was an interpretation of those guys gambling in the church and were punished or whatever. So now, all of the possible jobs we could've had over here with gambling legalized are just not gonna happen because of people's interpretation of what was in the bible.

On the topic of killing, I'm referring to the ten commandments. One of em is that "thou shalt not kill" and you have the crusade war. (I might be wrong on that example but still...)

#108 Posted by lykopis (10868 posts) - - Show Bio

@pfcoolio14:

I think you are misunderstanding my point. The devil is in the details. Here are some of Ms. Ecklund's findings:

In the above table, taking her small sample of scientists as compared to the general American public. Here it shows 53% don't consider themselves affiliated with any religion, leaving 47% thought to be religious. However, here are more of her findings:

Here, the numbers change. Taking the first two statements, the first being clearly atheist and the second being agnostic - the total is actually 64% who are not religious. Throw in the 8% which are deist (and not religious by definition) then you have 28% who would subscribe to being religious in some manner. Matching them up to the general American public and the disparity is even more glaring (9% of scientists believing absolutely in a god compared to 63%)

Strange questions but the results are worth noting. There is no clarification in regards to what these "truths" are.

Then there is this finding. No need to explain. (source)

What else needs to be considered is that these scientists are very much dependent on grants - from various institutions ranging from educational, government and more famous ones such as the John Templeton Foundation who funded this particular investigation by Ms. Ecklund. Many are reluctant to outright declare an absolute disbelief in a god as to simply avoid a discussion which could lead to jeopardizing these funds. Understandable considering the United States is a very religious country so I make this point not so much as a criticism, but a fact which makes sense.

Another break down of these findings can be found here (admittedly, this site takes on a critical stance towards the book, but the numbers cited are sound). I am the type of person who likes to gather information (as much as possible) when it comes to studies, etc and this is merely me a sharing what I have found and not a rebuttal to your interpretation of the study's findings. Like you -- I am not looking to debate, I just find it important to provide as much information as possible (and its context) when it comes to numbers and statistics and studies of this nature.

Also, it's worth noting out of all the biologists polled, 8% identified as being religious.

#109 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio


On the topic of killing, I'm referring to the ten commandments. One of em is that "thou shalt not kill" and you have the crusade war. (I might be wrong on that example but still...)

In the old commandments, the Israelite killed men, women, and children during the invasion of Canaan (Land of Milk and Honey - Palestine) as instructed by God they say.

#110 Posted by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea, the bible is all about interpretation. Over here (The Bahamas), gambling was made illegal to all Bahamians due to most of the Bahamians saying that gambling is evil. That was an interpretation of those guys gambling in the church and were punished or whatever. So now, all of the possible jobs we could've had over here with gambling legalized are just not gonna happen because of people's interpretation of what was in the bible.

Very interesting... didnt know that.

On the topic of killing, I'm referring to the ten commandments. One of em is that "thou shalt not kill" and you have the crusade war. (I might be wrong on that example but still...)

So... the 10 Commandments are in the Old Testament. It does indeed say "thou shalt not kill [murder, really]", which is a nice sentiment. But then all sorts of things are punishable by death, such as...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Actions_punishable_by_death_in_the_Old_Testament

Sexual activities

  • Adultery (Leviticus 20:10-12, man and woman)
  • Lying about virginity. Applies to girls who are still in their fathers' homes, who lie about their virginity, and are presented to their husband as a virgin. The accused is guilty until proved innocent. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
  • The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire) (Leviticus 21:9)
  • Rape of a virgin who is engaged. If she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels. No mention is made of the girl’s opinion, and no punishment is specified for raping a single non-virgin female. (Deuteronomy 22:25)
  • Being the victim of rape, if one is an engaged female virgin and the rape occurs in a city. If it takes place in a field, the victim is spared because nobody would have heard her screams. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)Presumably, virgins who scream for help inside a city will always be rescued.
  • Men practicing bestiality. (Both man and animal die). (Leviticus 20:15) [4]
  • Women practicing bestiality (Both woman and animal die). (Leviticus 20:16) [4]
  • Having sex with your father’s wife, as distinct from "your mother", as it was common practice for men at the time to have several wives. (both die) (Leviticus 20:20)
  • Having sex with your daughter-in-law. (Leviticus 20:30)
  • Incest. (Leviticus 20:17) [5]
  • (for men): Sex with a man in the same manner as sex with women. Generally interpreted as male homosexuality. The girls seem to get a free... errrr ...ride on this one. (Leviticus 18:22)
  • Marrying a woman and her daughter. They are all burnt to death (Leviticus 20:14)

A couple of these demand that the "sinners" be burned to death rather than stoned — which was the more usual form of capital punishment. One can wonder why these crimes in particular merit this especially horrible fate.

Religious laws

Parents and Children

Violent and legal crimes

Deuteronomy 19:20 explicitly identifies that the purpose of this is deterrence. "The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing (malicious and false testimony by one man against another) be done among you." Presumably all the other death penalties are assumed to be for deterrence as well.
  • Ignoring the verdict of a judge – (or a priest!) (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).
  • Not penning up a known dangerous bull, if the bull subsequently kills a man or a woman. Both the animal and the reckless owner of the dangerous bull are to be put to death. (Exodus 21:29)

Things that don’t go anywhere else

  • Living in a city that failed to surrender to the Israelites. (Kill all the men, make the women and children slaves.) (Deuteronomy 20:12-14)

Possible grounds for execution

The following carry the punishment of being "cut off from his people". Some people seem to feel that this is the same as the death penalty, although the ancient Israelites may simply have interpreted it as exile.

#111 Edited by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Now lets look at examples of God doing the killing himself...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people

FatalitiesCrimeMethod usedBiblical reference
20 million (estimated).People being evil.Drowning (Yes, even the Plesiosaurs).Genesis 6:8
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (population of Sodom estimated to be 600-1200, Gomorrah presumably would be similar).According to Genesis: Being evil and wanting to rapeangels. Though one might wonder how this particular fantasy might be carried out.
According to Ezekiel (depending on translation): Being prideful (arrogant), overfed and unconcerned (having an abundance of idleness); neglecting the poor and needy; being haughty and committing abominations before God. Basically, having fun.

No mention of homosexuality.

Burnt to death by a rain of burning sulfur.Genesis 19:4-5
Ezekiel 16:46-47 (specifically Ezekiel 16:49-50)
Lot’s wife.Pausing to look back at the spectacle of God's fiery wrath.Transformed in to a pillar of salt.Genesis 19:26
Er, the firstborn of Judah.Being "wicked in the sight of the Lord"Not specifiedGenesis 38:7
Onan (Er’s brother and apparent inventor ofonanism)Disobeying God's orders to impregnate his dead brother's wife (or “spilling his seed”).Not specifiedGenesis 38:9-10 (unlucky family)
The firstborn of Egypt.Being firstborn when God decided to show his strength. God hardenedPharaoh's heart so he refused to let the Israelites go. Psychotic andincompetent. What a combination.The Angel of Death.Exodus 12:29(Rather tough on the kids who really had nothing to do with it.)
The Egyptian army.Refusing to disobey orders to pursue the Israelites fleeing through the Red Sea, which was parted with walls of water on both sides of the path.Drowned when the seawater returned.Exodus 14:28
Nadab and Abihu, sons of Aaron.Offering strange fire before the Lord.Burnt to deathLeviticus 10:1-3 (God, being a perfectionist, does not tolerate mistakes during rituals.)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Having low moraleFireNumbers 11:1-3 (Counselling evidently was not an option)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Eating quailsPlagueNumbers 11:31-35
Ten scouts sent to explore the promised landSpreading bad reports about this land containing giants, and being too difficult to conquer.PlagueNumbers 14:36-38
Korah, Dathan, Abiram and their respective families.Claiming to be as holy as Moses and Aaron.The earth opened up and swallowed them - burying them alive.Numbers 16:27-32, which implies the children were killed, but Numbers 26:11 states Korah's children survived.
250 Israelites.Followers of Korah (see above)Burnt to death by fire from God.Numbers 16:35
14,700 Israelites.Complaining about the previous two loving assassinations concerning Korah.PlagueNumbers 16:49(The management thanks you for your feedback. Now die!)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Despairing, and complaining about the quality of bread.Being bitten to death by divinely summoned fieryserpents, although casting an idol of a snake and looking upon it would prevent them from dying.Numbers 21:4-9 (Honestly, wouldn't it be cool just to try this to see it happen? C'mon, I dare ya...)
24,000 IsraelitesSexual immorality with Moabite women and worshiping Baal.Plague.Numbers 25:9(Proving once more that despite God being obviously real and very jealous, Israelites would worship a sandwich if Moses so much as popped out to buy a newspaper.)
Undisclosed number of AmmoritesWaging war against Israel, trying to protect themselves and their families from the holy slaughter that the Israelites regularly inflicted on their enemiesSending hailstones from HeavenJoshua 10:10-11
Either 70 or 50,070 Israelites (dependent on how the inerrant Bible is translated).Looking into the Ark of the Covenant (Like the ending of Indiana Jones: Raiders of The Lost Ark).Not specified1 Samuel 6:19(You would have thought the 50,070th Israelite would have more sense than to climb a mountain of 50,069 bodies and look into a box)
Nabal.David refrained from murdering Nabal's servants or stealing from him. He expected his kindness to be repaid in the form of gifts from Nabal, but Nabal declined. God killed Nabal before David had the chance to go "avenging thyself with thine own hand".Not specified1 Samuel 25:38(This was quite convenient as David, an avid collector of wives, got to marry Nabal's wife who was quite hot.)
Uzzah.Touching the Ark while trying to prevent it from tipping over.Not specified.2 Samuel 6:6-7 (No good deed goes unpunished.)
David and Bathsheba's baby boy.None. The baby was killed in order to punish David.Not specified2 Samuel 12:14-18 (The life of a baby is sacred, as explained by Christians, but it's worth squat when God is angry with the parents.)
70,000 assorted IsraelitesInspired by either God, or perhaps Satan - the Bible is a tad unclear - David took a census of his lands and people.Plague2 Samuel 24:13 , despite being told to by God in 2 Samuel 24:1. (Unless you read 1 Chronicles 21:1, where the devil did it)
An unnamed prophetThe prophet had been told by God to not eat bread, but another guy claimed he too was a prophet, and that God had commanded him to bring the prophet home for some food.Eaten by lions1 Kings 13:1-24 (That’s what happens when you follow the advice of self-proclaimedprophets.)
Jeroboam's son.None. Child killed to punish Jeroboam, to save him from a massacre God was planning for the rest of Jeroboam's family, and possibly also as a sign used to confirm a prophecy.Not specified. Died in his mother's arms.1 Kings 14:10-18 (God euthanizes a child to save him from the terrors of...His own wrath?)
An unnamed manRefusal to strike a prophet when ordered to do so by the prophet in question.Killed by a lion (God really enjoys using Lions inKings).1 Kings 20:35-36 (Weird or what?)
King AhaziahSeeking medical advice from a rival god, and Baal worship.Died in bed while recovering from an earlier fall.1 Kings 22:51 and 2 Kings 1:16(Baal must have been pretty good to compete with a Yahweh: the God who would incinerate your children on a whim.)
102 soldiersBeing impolite to Elijah and serving King Ahziah.Burnt to death.2 Kings 1:9-12 (This verse is worth reading, since it's almost comical the way in which the soldiers queue up to be incinerated.)
42 youths.They mocked Elisha's bald head.No kidding - God sends 2 she-bears to maul them to death.2 Kings 2:23-24 (Evidently there weren't any lions to hand).[1]
Some foreigners.Not worshiping GodKilled by lions2 Kings 17:25-26 ("Death by lion" crops up with suspicious frequency. Did the author of Kings have some kind of lion-phobia?)
185,000 soldiers.Being at war with IsraelKilled by the angel of the Lord while they slept.2 Kings 19:35
Jeroboam.Rebelling against Abijah, the king of Israel based on dependence from David.Not specified2 Chronicles 13:20
Jehoram.Doing evil in the sight of the Lord.Stricken by a disease that caused his bowels to fall out.2 Chronicles 21:14-19 (Nasty way to go.)
#112 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio
#113 Posted by Batman242 (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: To be honest, I don't care much or know much about the bible, but I was just saying that based off of my knowledge and my interpretation of it. A lot of people do the same here.

#114 Posted by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: To be honest, I don't care much or know much about the bible, but I was just saying that based off of my knowledge and my interpretation of it. A lot of people do the same here.

How do you interpret it without knowing much about it?

#115 Edited by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@willpayton: To be honest, I don't care much or know much about the bible, but I was just saying that based off of my knowledge and my interpretation of it. A lot of people do the same here.

How do you interpret it without knowing much about it?

The reason why there are so many versions and factions of a certain religion.

#116 Posted by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

@batman242 said:

@willpayton: To be honest, I don't care much or know much about the bible, but I was just saying that based off of my knowledge and my interpretation of it. A lot of people do the same here.

How do you interpret it without knowing much about it?

The reason why there are so many versions and factions of a certain religion.

Yeah no kidding. Imagine if science worked that way. Imagine if engineering, architecture, or medicine worked that way? Basically... they wouldnt work at all.

#117 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas said:

@willpayton said:

@batman242 said:

@willpayton: To be honest, I don't care much or know much about the bible, but I was just saying that based off of my knowledge and my interpretation of it. A lot of people do the same here.

How do you interpret it without knowing much about it?

The reason why there are so many versions and factions of a certain religion.

Yeah no kidding. Imagine if science worked that way. Imagine if engineering, architecture, or medicine worked that way? Basically... they wouldnt work at all.

True

#118 Posted by The_PAIN (732 posts) - - Show Bio

Every religious leader are liars and uses their followers like pawns to meet their ends. DISGUSTING!

#119 Edited by SPM1M (958 posts) - - Show Bio

To begin with i believe religion or the idea behind most religions is a beautiful thing. i like the diversity in religion and how they differ. i believe that religion is a great tool for anyone tobetter his or her self as an individual. I think some religions have great guidelines on how to be the best person you can be. i believe the original idea of religion as means for the masses to better themselves, Hmm if only it was that simple

Most religions NOW are used by those in power as a tool, nothing more than a tool to subdue and keep the general population in check. a tool that tells the general population "hey be happy and content with what you have even if you deserve more or deserve to at least be given the chance to work for more". most religions show you not to question the unexplained, not to question those in power, not to make movements for a better way of living, because in the end you are promised salvation in a better place but only if you stand still and follow these set of rules. so, does religion now hinder potential? yes now more than ever before.

Religion has become corrupt(not that it wasnt before). but is only one of many aspects of a system designed to keep the few in power, in power and the rest utterly blind to the injustices that happen to them on a daily basis. religion gets us by the injustices through prayer and faith and would actually help if someone was listening. ppl need to take proper action and stop relying on faith alone. ppl need to see that the world we live in is twisted and nothing more than a broken image of how it should be.

Not all religions are the same some teach prejudice and discrimination on anything that is different or disagrees with their views, some condone atrocities but as long as you remain faithful you are assured a seat beyond the golden gates. misused religion is without a doubt the biggest killer through out human history and is the number one cause of war. Some religions on the other hand teach very beautiful things, teach you to cherish any form of life, to see the person as for the person they are inside not how they are out, teach to love unconditionally and do unto others as you want to be done to you.

So you see this is not a black and white topic and is very complicated. i believe ppl as individuals need to make up their own minds and strive to be the best that they can be. if some individuals need religion to be better than im all for it but IMO you should know wat to do as a human being. you should know how to love, trust, help, and support everyone around you(again if only things were that simple). I for one give everyone the benefit of the doubt and try my best to be as friendly as i can and as caring as i can be and i did not need a religion to tell me this.

In conclusion, religion as a whole, with very few exceptions, is used by the few corrupt to keep the money deep in their pockets. sad really, such beautiful content misused for the greed of the few and leads to the suffering of many. but there are worse things out there IMO the number one "evil" in this world is the monetary system, add to that corrupt politics and religion and you have yourself the twisted world we live in today

#120 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@spm1m said:

To begin with i believe religion or the idea behind most religions is a beautiful thing. i like the diversity in religion and how they differ. i believe that religion is a great tool for anyone tobetter his or her self as an individual. I think some religions have great guidelines on how to be the best person you can be. i believe the original idea of religion as means for the masses to better themselves, Hmm if only it was that simple

Most religions NOW are used by those in power as a tool, nothing more than a tool to subdue and keep the general population in check. a tool that tells the general population "hey be happy and content with what you have even if you deserve more or deserve to at least be given the chance to work for more". most religions show you not to question the unexplained, not to question those in power, not to make movements for a better way of living, because in the end you are promised salvation in a better place but only if you stand still and follow these set of rules. so, does religion now hinder potential? yes now more than ever before.

Religion has become corrupt(not that it wasnt before). but is only one of many aspects of a system designed to keep the few in power, in power and the rest utterly blind to the injustices that happen to them on a daily basis. religion gets us by the injustices through prayer and faith and would actually help if someone was listening. ppl need to take proper action and stop relying on faith alone. ppl need to see that the world we live in is twisted and nothing more than a broken image of how it should be.

Not all religions are the same some teach prejudice and discrimination on anything that is different or disagrees with their views, some condone atrocities but as long as you remain faithful you are assured a seat beyond the golden gates. misused religion is without a doubt the biggest killer through out human history and is the number one cause of war. Some religions on the other hand teach very beautiful things, teach you to cherish any form of life, to see the person as for the person they are inside not how they are out, teach to love unconditionally and do unto others as you want to be done to you.

So you see this is not a black and white topic and is very complicated. i believe ppl as individuals need to make up their own minds and strive to be the best that they can be. if some individuals need religion to be better than im all for it but IMO you should know wat to do as a human being. you should know how to love, trust, help, and support everyone around you(again if only things were that simple). I for one give everyone the benefit of the doubt and try my best to be as friendly as i can and as caring as i can be and i did not need a religion to tell me this.

In conclusion, religion as a whole, with very few exceptions, is used by the few corrupt to keep the money deep in their pockets. sad really, such beautiful content misused for the greed of the few and leads to the suffering of many. but there are worse things out there IMO the number one "evil" in this world is the monetary system, add to that corrupt politics and religion and you have yourself the twisted world we live in today

Great write up.

I would like to stress on the following:

you should know wat to do as a human being. you should know how to love, trust, help, and support everyone around you(again if only things were that simple).

- You are right, if only things are are much simpler. The IDEA of people trusting, loving, caring, supporting, and helping others is too IDEALISTIC. When a person is born he/she only thinks of him/herself, self satisfaction is all there is, as one grows up, GREED becomes the primary trait. A typical person will not move a muscle unless there is some kind of reward to it.

Not all religions are the same some teach prejudice and discrimination on anything that is different or disagrees with their views, some condone atrocities but as long as you remain faithful you are assured a seat beyond the golden gates. misused religion is without a doubt the biggest killer through out human history and is the number one cause of war.

- True

Some religions on the other hand teach very beautiful things, teach you to cherish any form of life, to see the person as for the person they are inside not how they are out, teach to love unconditionally and do unto others as you want to be done to you.

- I would like to disagree, all religion practice one thing, the GLORIFIED version that if you are not one of us, you are against us.

#121 Posted by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

@spm1m said:

To begin with i believe religion or the idea behind most religions is a beautiful thing. i like the diversity in religion and how they differ. i believe that religion is a great tool for anyone tobetter his or her self as an individual. I think some religions have great guidelines on how to be the best person you can be. i believe the original idea of religion as means for the masses to better themselves, Hmm if only it was that simple

Most religions NOW are used by those in power as a tool, nothing more than a tool to subdue and keep the general population in check. a tool that tells the general population "hey be happy and content with what you have even if you deserve more or deserve to at least be given the chance to work for more". most religions show you not to question the unexplained, not to question those in power, not to make movements for a better way of living, because in the end you are promised salvation in a better place but only if you stand still and follow these set of rules. so, does religion now hinder potential? yes now more than ever before.

Religion has become corrupt(not that it wasnt before). but is only one of many aspects of a system designed to keep the few in power, in power and the rest utterly blind to the injustices that happen to them on a daily basis. religion gets us by the injustices through prayer and faith and would actually help if someone was listening. ppl need to take proper action and stop relying on faith alone. ppl need to see that the world we live in is twisted and nothing more than a broken image of how it should be.

Not all religions are the same some teach prejudice and discrimination on anything that is different or disagrees with their views, some condone atrocities but as long as you remain faithful you are assured a seat beyond the golden gates. misused religion is without a doubt the biggest killer through out human history and is the number one cause of war. Some religions on the other hand teach very beautiful things, teach you to cherish any form of life, to see the person as for the person they are inside not how they are out, teach to love unconditionally and do unto others as you want to be done to you.

So you see this is not a black and white topic and is very complicated. i believe ppl as individuals need to make up their own minds and strive to be the best that they can be. if some individuals need religion to be better than im all for it but IMO you should know wat to do as a human being. you should know how to love, trust, help, and support everyone around you(again if only things were that simple). I for one give everyone the benefit of the doubt and try my best to be as friendly as i can and as caring as i can be and i did not need a religion to tell me this.

In conclusion, religion as a whole, with very few exceptions, is used by the few corrupt to keep the money deep in their pockets. sad really, such beautiful content misused for the greed of the few and leads to the suffering of many. but there are worse things out there IMO the number one "evil" in this world is the monetary system, add to that corrupt politics and religion and you have yourself the twisted world we live in today

The problem comes when you mix morality, which I think it basically what you're talking about when you talk about the good things of religion, and the claims about the supernatural that come with religion.

Why not separate them? They have nothing to do with each other, and in large part is why religion gets used by some to wield power over others.

It is inherently flawed to attribute morality to a god. If "good" is simply what a god says it is, then a person can make up whatever they want and use it to control others. "I say God wants you to kill"... and so people kill, fully believing that what they are doing is good. But, if people think for themselves, and use logic to determine morality, then no one can manipulate you like this.

#122 Edited by The_PAIN (732 posts) - - Show Bio

It is inherently flawed to attribute morality to a god. If "good" is simply what a god says it is, then a person can make up whatever they want and use it to control others. "I say God wants you to kill"... and so people kill, fully believing that what they are doing is good. But, if people think for themselves, and use logic to determine morality, then no one can manipulate you like this.

Basically Muslim/Christian or whatever fundamentalism.

#123 Edited by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

Let us debate on how religion is the one hindering progress, for example, birth control. Some religion outright and with severe prejudice are against this.

Even if a country is poor, they do not like birth control because they said it is against their teachings.

What do you think guys?

#124 Edited by King Saturn (218445 posts) - - Show Bio

That List is Epic

#125 Posted by The_PAIN (732 posts) - - Show Bio

Let us debate on how religion is the one hindering progress, for example, birth control. Some religion outright and with severe prejudice are against this.

Even if a country is poor, they do not like birth control because they said it is against their teachings.

What do you think guys?

The idea of giving priority to dogma rather than practicality is moronic.

#126 Posted by Zauberin (4431 posts) - - Show Bio

Not particularly.

#127 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain said:

@overlordarhas said:

Let us debate on how religion is the one hindering progress, for example, birth control. Some religion outright and with severe prejudice are against this.

Even if a country is poor, they do not like birth control because they said it is against their teachings.

What do you think guys?

The idea of giving priority to dogma rather than practicality is moronic.

I feel the same way.

The Government is trying to solve the problem and this hypocrites gets in the way

#128 Posted by The_PAIN (732 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain said:

@overlordarhas said:

Let us debate on how religion is the one hindering progress, for example, birth control. Some religion outright and with severe prejudice are against this.

Even if a country is poor, they do not like birth control because they said it is against their teachings.

What do you think guys?

The idea of giving priority to dogma rather than practicality is moronic.

I feel the same way.

The Government is trying to solve the problem and this hypocrites gets in the way

and when you say, if you are so against it then take care of them. they will dismiss you and say that you are immature.

#129 Posted by OptimusPalm (1871 posts) - - Show Bio

If you believe in a god then there's nothing wrong with that. But if you follow a book (to the very last letter) written hundreds and hundreds of years I think you'll end up hindering yourself along the way.

Law changes with time. Why doesn't Religion?

#130 Posted by Pyrogram (42873 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain said:

Every religious leader are liars and uses their followers like pawns to meet their ends. DISGUSTING!

-__-

#131 Posted by Batman242 (4913 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242 said:

@willpayton: To be honest, I don't care much or know much about the bible, but I was just saying that based off of my knowledge and my interpretation of it. A lot of people do the same here.

How do you interpret it without knowing much about it?

That's what basically everyone does. It's stupid. They only read one part and interpret it, and then believe that to be true without reading the rest.

Why follow something you don't understand completely? I don't know. Faith I guess

#132 Edited by OptimusPalm (1871 posts) - - Show Bio

@batman242: Now lets look at examples of God doing the killing himself...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people

FatalitiesCrimeMethod usedBiblical reference
20 million (estimated).People being evil.Drowning (Yes, even the Plesiosaurs).Genesis 6:8
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (population of Sodom estimated to be 600-1200, Gomorrah presumably would be similar).According to Genesis: Being evil and wanting to rapeangels. Though one might wonder how this particular fantasy might be carried out.
According to Ezekiel (depending on translation): Being prideful (arrogant), overfed and unconcerned (having an abundance of idleness); neglecting the poor and needy; being haughty and committing abominations before God. Basically, having fun.

No mention of homosexuality.

Burnt to death by a rain of burning sulfur.Genesis 19:4-5
Ezekiel 16:46-47 (specifically Ezekiel 16:49-50)
Lot’s wife.Pausing to look back at the spectacle of God's fiery wrath.Transformed in to a pillar of salt.Genesis 19:26
Er, the firstborn of Judah.Being "wicked in the sight of the Lord"Not specifiedGenesis 38:7
Onan (Er’s brother and apparent inventor ofonanism)Disobeying God's orders to impregnate his dead brother's wife (or “spilling his seed”).Not specifiedGenesis 38:9-10 (unlucky family)
The firstborn of Egypt.Being firstborn when God decided to show his strength. God hardenedPharaoh's heart so he refused to let the Israelites go. Psychotic andincompetent. What a combination.The Angel of Death.Exodus 12:29(Rather tough on the kids who really had nothing to do with it.)
The Egyptian army.Refusing to disobey orders to pursue the Israelites fleeing through the Red Sea, which was parted with walls of water on both sides of the path.Drowned when the seawater returned.Exodus 14:28
Nadab and Abihu, sons of Aaron.Offering strange fire before the Lord.Burnt to deathLeviticus 10:1-3 (God, being a perfectionist, does not tolerate mistakes during rituals.)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Having low moraleFireNumbers 11:1-3 (Counselling evidently was not an option)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Eating quailsPlagueNumbers 11:31-35
Ten scouts sent to explore the promised landSpreading bad reports about this land containing giants, and being too difficult to conquer.PlagueNumbers 14:36-38
Korah, Dathan, Abiram and their respective families.Claiming to be as holy as Moses and Aaron.The earth opened up and swallowed them - burying them alive.Numbers 16:27-32, which implies the children were killed, but Numbers 26:11 states Korah's children survived.
250 Israelites.Followers of Korah (see above)Burnt to death by fire from God.Numbers 16:35
14,700 Israelites.Complaining about the previous two loving assassinations concerning Korah.PlagueNumbers 16:49(The management thanks you for your feedback. Now die!)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Despairing, and complaining about the quality of bread.Being bitten to death by divinely summoned fieryserpents, although casting an idol of a snake and looking upon it would prevent them from dying.Numbers 21:4-9 (Honestly, wouldn't it be cool just to try this to see it happen? C'mon, I dare ya...)
24,000 IsraelitesSexual immorality with Moabite women and worshiping Baal.Plague.Numbers 25:9(Proving once more that despite God being obviously real and very jealous, Israelites would worship a sandwich if Moses so much as popped out to buy a newspaper.)
Undisclosed number of AmmoritesWaging war against Israel, trying to protect themselves and their families from the holy slaughter that the Israelites regularly inflicted on their enemiesSending hailstones from HeavenJoshua 10:10-11
Either 70 or 50,070 Israelites (dependent on how the inerrant Bible is translated).Looking into the Ark of the Covenant (Like the ending of Indiana Jones: Raiders of The Lost Ark).Not specified1 Samuel 6:19(You would have thought the 50,070th Israelite would have more sense than to climb a mountain of 50,069 bodies and look into a box)
Nabal.David refrained from murdering Nabal's servants or stealing from him. He expected his kindness to be repaid in the form of gifts from Nabal, but Nabal declined. God killed Nabal before David had the chance to go "avenging thyself with thine own hand".Not specified1 Samuel 25:38(This was quite convenient as David, an avid collector of wives, got to marry Nabal's wife who was quite hot.)
Uzzah.Touching the Ark while trying to prevent it from tipping over.Not specified.2 Samuel 6:6-7 (No good deed goes unpunished.)
David and Bathsheba's baby boy.None. The baby was killed in order to punish David.Not specified2 Samuel 12:14-18 (The life of a baby is sacred, as explained by Christians, but it's worth squat when God is angry with the parents.)
70,000 assorted IsraelitesInspired by either God, or perhaps Satan - the Bible is a tad unclear - David took a census of his lands and people.Plague2 Samuel 24:13 , despite being told to by God in 2 Samuel 24:1. (Unless you read 1 Chronicles 21:1, where the devil did it)
An unnamed prophetThe prophet had been told by God to not eat bread, but another guy claimed he too was a prophet, and that God had commanded him to bring the prophet home for some food.Eaten by lions1 Kings 13:1-24 (That’s what happens when you follow the advice of self-proclaimedprophets.)
Jeroboam's son.None. Child killed to punish Jeroboam, to save him from a massacre God was planning for the rest of Jeroboam's family, and possibly also as a sign used to confirm a prophecy.Not specified. Died in his mother's arms.1 Kings 14:10-18 (God euthanizes a child to save him from the terrors of...His own wrath?)
An unnamed manRefusal to strike a prophet when ordered to do so by the prophet in question.Killed by a lion (God really enjoys using Lions inKings).1 Kings 20:35-36 (Weird or what?)
King AhaziahSeeking medical advice from a rival god, and Baal worship.Died in bed while recovering from an earlier fall.1 Kings 22:51 and 2 Kings 1:16(Baal must have been pretty good to compete with a Yahweh: the God who would incinerate your children on a whim.)
102 soldiersBeing impolite to Elijah and serving King Ahziah.Burnt to death.2 Kings 1:9-12 (This verse is worth reading, since it's almost comical the way in which the soldiers queue up to be incinerated.)
42 youths.They mocked Elisha's bald head.No kidding - God sends 2 she-bears to maul them to death.2 Kings 2:23-24 (Evidently there weren't any lions to hand).[1]
Some foreigners.Not worshiping GodKilled by lions2 Kings 17:25-26 ("Death by lion" crops up with suspicious frequency. Did the author of Kings have some kind of lion-phobia?)
185,000 soldiers.Being at war with IsraelKilled by the angel of the Lord while they slept.2 Kings 19:35
Jeroboam.Rebelling against Abijah, the king of Israel based on dependence from David.Not specified2 Chronicles 13:20
Jehoram.Doing evil in the sight of the Lord.Stricken by a disease that caused his bowels to fall out.2 Chronicles 21:14-19 (Nasty way to go.)

I believe the correct answer here is 'God works in mysterious ways'....

#133 Edited by OblivionKnight (3488 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: I can't agree with the last part. I was never taught that every non-Christian was against Christians. Even in the few times I've gone to church I have never heard this.

If anything, I'd like to think religion teaches, "We're the same and share the same beliefs, they're different." Not necessarily against, but different, yes. However, this mentality is EVERYWHERE.

"I have a higher IQ and attended a better School. I'm better than he is."

"He's a felon, I'm not, I'm better than he is."

"I'm rich, he's poor, I'm better than he is."

" I'm Asian, he's white. I'm better than he is."

In every aspect of society, independent of religion, there are ways to differentiate ourselves amongst one another.

The same can also be said for politics.

#134 Posted by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not want to attack anybody, but the Church (Any) seems to hinder change.

Hinder change, yes.

Child abuse... also yes. And we wonder why much of the world is f***ed up and people are killing, mutilating, raping, and disfiguring each other over religion?

Loading Video...

#135 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas said:

I do not want to attack anybody, but the Church (Any) seems to hinder change.

Hinder change, yes.

Child abuse... also yes. And we wonder why much of the world is f***ed up and people are killing, mutilating, raping, and disfiguring each other over religion?

Loading Video...

Have you ever read the book "A Purpose Driven Life", It states that a human being needs GOD to prove that one exist and you cannot do anything if GOD does not will it, what happens to Free Will?. "I Think Therefore I Am" is much accurate.

#136 Posted by OblivionKnight (3488 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain said:

Every religious leader are liars and uses their followers like pawns to meet their ends. DISGUSTING!

Isn't...isn't this what politics are?

#137 Posted by Abocado (670 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: The divine right of kings, or divine-right theory of kingship, is a political and religious doctrine of royal and political legitimacy. It asserts that a monarchis subject to no earthly authority, deriving the right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people, the aristocracy, or any other estate of the realm, including (in the view of some, especially in Protestant countries) the Church. According to this doctrine, only God can judge an unjust king. The doctrine implies that any attempt to depose the king or to restrict his powers runs contrary to the will of God and may constitute asacrilegious act.

This is what religious leaders practice. They hinder progress because a thinking man will reject such ideas. It is easier to control uneducated people.

Well I know Religion hindered my Sexual Activity... I mean there was a lot of chicks who I wanted to bone when I was a Christian... but because "Jeebus" said I can't bone any chicks unless I was married to them... I had to pass up the cooch... and that made me Mad ! Well until I started to do my own thing regardless of what that Ole Book of Violence, Magic, Love said.

QFT LOL

#138 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@abocado:

Have not heard that since my College Political Science days LOLZ

#139 Posted by Abocado (670 posts) - - Show Bio

@abocado:

Have not heard that since my College Political Science days LOLZ

We discussed it in our philosophy class just recently.

#140 Posted by Abocado (670 posts) - - Show Bio

I don’t believe in god. There’s no proof he exists. In a world where there isn’t even proof of the future, the past exists. Even if it’s tainted with misunderstandings and delusions, if the people themselves believe in it, the past is the truth to them. And, if you base your actions or your life around it, in a way, it’s a type of god itself.

Orihara Izaya (Durarara!!)

I found it appropriate to post this here.

#141 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@abocado said:

I don’t believe in god. There’s no proof he exists. In a world where there isn’t even proof of the future, the past exists. Even if it’s tainted with misunderstandings and delusions, if the people themselves believe in it, the past is the truth to them. And, if you base your actions or your life around it, in a way, it’s a type of god itself.

Orihara Izaya (Durarara!!)

I found it appropriate to post this here.

LOLZ

#143 Posted by ssejllenrad (13028 posts) - - Show Bio
#144 Edited by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio
#145 Posted by laflux (20582 posts) - - Show Bio

As of now, Yeah- especially if we are talking about the "common ones". In many cases, it doesn't make alot of a difference, but I feel that the examples people give of Religion doing the opposite are often misinterpreted, or a the best, not applicable to modern day life.

#146 Posted by lykopis (10868 posts) - - Show Bio

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Actions_punishable_by_death_in_the_Old_Testament

Sexual activities

  • Adultery (Leviticus 20:10-12, man and woman)
  • Lying about virginity. Applies to girls who are still in their fathers' homes, who lie about their virginity, and are presented to their husband as a virgin. The accused is guilty until proved innocent. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
  • The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire) (Leviticus 21:9)
  • Rape of a virgin who is engaged. If she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels. No mention is made of the girl’s opinion, and no punishment is specified for raping a single non-virgin female. (Deuteronomy 22:25)
  • Being the victim of rape, if one is an engaged female virgin and the rape occurs in a city. If it takes place in a field, the victim is spared because nobody would have heard her screams. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)Presumably, virgins who scream for help inside a city will always be rescued.
  • Men practicing bestiality. (Both man and animal die). (Leviticus 20:15) [4]
  • Women practicing bestiality (Both woman and animal die). (Leviticus 20:16) [4]
  • Having sex with your father’s wife, as distinct from "your mother", as it was common practice for men at the time to have several wives. (both die) (Leviticus 20:20)
  • Having sex with your daughter-in-law. (Leviticus 20:30)
  • Incest. (Leviticus 20:17) [5]
  • (for men): Sex with a man in the same manner as sex with women. Generally interpreted as male homosexuality. The girls seem to get a free... errrr ...ride on this one. (Leviticus 18:22)
  • Marrying a woman and her daughter. They are all burnt to death (Leviticus 20:14)

A couple of these demand that the "sinners" be burned to death rather than stoned — which was the more usual form of capital punishment. One can wonder why these crimes in particular merit this especially horrible fate.

Religious laws

Parents and Children

Violent and legal crimes

Deuteronomy 19:20 explicitly identifies that the purpose of this is deterrence. "The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing (malicious and false testimony by one man against another) be done among you." Presumably all the other death penalties are assumed to be for deterrence as well.
  • Ignoring the verdict of a judge – (or a priest!) (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).
  • Not penning up a known dangerous bull, if the bull subsequently kills a man or a woman. Both the animal and the reckless owner of the dangerous bull are to be put to death. (Exodus 21:29)

Things that don’t go anywhere else

  • Living in a city that failed to surrender to the Israelites. (Kill all the men, make the women and children slaves.) (Deuteronomy 20:12-14)

Possible grounds for execution

The following carry the punishment of being "cut off from his people". Some people seem to feel that this is the same as the death penalty, although the ancient Israelites may simply have interpreted it as exile.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people

FatalitiesCrimeMethod usedBiblical reference
20 million (estimated).People being evil.Drowning (Yes, even the Plesiosaurs).Genesis 6:8
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (population of Sodom estimated to be 600-1200, Gomorrah presumably would be similar).According to Genesis: Being evil and wanting to rapeangels. Though one might wonder how this particular fantasy might be carried out.
According to Ezekiel (depending on translation): Being prideful (arrogant), overfed and unconcerned (having an abundance of idleness); neglecting the poor and needy; being haughty and committing abominations before God. Basically, having fun.

No mention of homosexuality.

Burnt to death by a rain of burning sulfur.Genesis 19:4-5
Ezekiel 16:46-47 (specifically Ezekiel 16:49-50)
Lot’s wife.Pausing to look back at the spectacle of God's fiery wrath.Transformed in to a pillar of salt.Genesis 19:26
Er, the firstborn of Judah.Being "wicked in the sight of the Lord"Not specifiedGenesis 38:7
Onan (Er’s brother and apparent inventor ofonanism)Disobeying God's orders to impregnate his dead brother's wife (or “spilling his seed”).Not specifiedGenesis 38:9-10 (unlucky family)
The firstborn of Egypt.Being firstborn when God decided to show his strength. God hardenedPharaoh's heart so he refused to let the Israelites go. Psychotic andincompetent. What a combination.The Angel of Death.Exodus 12:29(Rather tough on the kids who really had nothing to do with it.)
The Egyptian army.Refusing to disobey orders to pursue the Israelites fleeing through the Red Sea, which was parted with walls of water on both sides of the path.Drowned when the seawater returned.Exodus 14:28
Nadab and Abihu, sons of Aaron.Offering strange fire before the Lord.Burnt to deathLeviticus 10:1-3 (God, being a perfectionist, does not tolerate mistakes during rituals.)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Having low moraleFireNumbers 11:1-3 (Counselling evidently was not an option)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Eating quailsPlagueNumbers 11:31-35
Ten scouts sent to explore the promised landSpreading bad reports about this land containing giants, and being too difficult to conquer.PlagueNumbers 14:36-38
Korah, Dathan, Abiram and their respective families.Claiming to be as holy as Moses and Aaron.The earth opened up and swallowed them - burying them alive.Numbers 16:27-32, which implies the children were killed, but Numbers 26:11 states Korah's children survived.
250 Israelites.Followers of Korah (see above)Burnt to death by fire from God.Numbers 16:35
14,700 Israelites.Complaining about the previous two loving assassinations concerning Korah.PlagueNumbers 16:49(The management thanks you for your feedback. Now die!)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Despairing, and complaining about the quality of bread.Being bitten to death by divinely summoned fieryserpents, although casting an idol of a snake and looking upon it would prevent them from dying.Numbers 21:4-9 (Honestly, wouldn't it be cool just to try this to see it happen? C'mon, I dare ya...)
24,000 IsraelitesSexual immorality with Moabite women and worshiping Baal.Plague.Numbers 25:9(Proving once more that despite God being obviously real and very jealous, Israelites would worship a sandwich if Moses so much as popped out to buy a newspaper.)
Undisclosed number of AmmoritesWaging war against Israel, trying to protect themselves and their families from the holy slaughter that the Israelites regularly inflicted on their enemiesSending hailstones from HeavenJoshua 10:10-11
Either 70 or 50,070 Israelites (dependent on how the inerrant Bible is translated).Looking into the Ark of the Covenant (Like the ending of Indiana Jones: Raiders of The Lost Ark).Not specified1 Samuel 6:19(You would have thought the 50,070th Israelite would have more sense than to climb a mountain of 50,069 bodies and look into a box)
Nabal.David refrained from murdering Nabal's servants or stealing from him. He expected his kindness to be repaid in the form of gifts from Nabal, but Nabal declined. God killed Nabal before David had the chance to go "avenging thyself with thine own hand".Not specified1 Samuel 25:38(This was quite convenient as David, an avid collector of wives, got to marry Nabal's wife who was quite hot.)
Uzzah.Touching the Ark while trying to prevent it from tipping over.Not specified.2 Samuel 6:6-7 (No good deed goes unpunished.)
David and Bathsheba's baby boy.None. The baby was killed in order to punish David.Not specified2 Samuel 12:14-18 (The life of a baby is sacred, as explained by Christians, but it's worth squat when God is angry with the parents.)
70,000 assorted IsraelitesInspired by either God, or perhaps Satan - the Bible is a tad unclear - David took a census of his lands and people.Plague2 Samuel 24:13 , despite being told to by God in 2 Samuel 24:1. (Unless you read 1 Chronicles 21:1, where the devil did it)
An unnamed prophetThe prophet had been told by God to not eat bread, but another guy claimed he too was a prophet, and that God had commanded him to bring the prophet home for some food.Eaten by lions1 Kings 13:1-24 (That’s what happens when you follow the advice of self-proclaimedprophets.)
Jeroboam's son.None. Child killed to punish Jeroboam, to save him from a massacre God was planning for the rest of Jeroboam's family, and possibly also as a sign used to confirm a prophecy.Not specified. Died in his mother's arms.1 Kings 14:10-18 (God euthanizes a child to save him from the terrors of...His own wrath?)
An unnamed manRefusal to strike a prophet when ordered to do so by the prophet in question.Killed by a lion (God really enjoys using Lions inKings).1 Kings 20:35-36 (Weird or what?)
King AhaziahSeeking medical advice from a rival god, and Baal worship.Died in bed while recovering from an earlier fall.1 Kings 22:51 and 2 Kings 1:16(Baal must have been pretty good to compete with a Yahweh: the God who would incinerate your children on a whim.)
102 soldiersBeing impolite to Elijah and serving King Ahziah.Burnt to death.2 Kings 1:9-12 (This verse is worth reading, since it's almost comical the way in which the soldiers queue up to be incinerated.)
42 youths.They mocked Elisha's bald head.No kidding - God sends 2 she-bears to maul them to death.2 Kings 2:23-24 (Evidently there weren't any lions to hand).[1]
Some foreigners.Not worshiping GodKilled by lions2 Kings 17:25-26 ("Death by lion" crops up with suspicious frequency. Did the author of Kings have some kind of lion-phobia?)
185,000 soldiers.Being at war with IsraelKilled by the angel of the Lord while they slept.2 Kings 19:35
Jeroboam.Rebelling against Abijah, the king of Israel based on dependence from David.Not specified2 Chronicles 13:20
Jehoram.Doing evil in the sight of the Lord.Stricken by a disease that caused his bowels to fall out.2 Chronicles 21:14-19 (Nasty way to go.)

Just wanted to quote these for easy access. Thanks! :)

#147 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (19300 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@willpayton said:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Actions_punishable_by_death_in_the_Old_Testament

Sexual activities

  • Adultery (Leviticus 20:10-12, man and woman)
  • Lying about virginity. Applies to girls who are still in their fathers' homes, who lie about their virginity, and are presented to their husband as a virgin. The accused is guilty until proved innocent. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
  • The daughter of a priest practicing prostitution (death by fire) (Leviticus 21:9)
  • Rape of a virgin who is engaged. If she is not engaged you only have to marry her and give her father 50 shekels. No mention is made of the girl’s opinion, and no punishment is specified for raping a single non-virgin female. (Deuteronomy 22:25)
  • Being the victim of rape, if one is an engaged female virgin and the rape occurs in a city. If it takes place in a field, the victim is spared because nobody would have heard her screams. (Deuteronomy 22:23-27)Presumably, virgins who scream for help inside a city will always be rescued.
  • Men practicing bestiality. (Both man and animal die). (Leviticus 20:15) [4]
  • Women practicing bestiality (Both woman and animal die). (Leviticus 20:16) [4]
  • Having sex with your father’s wife, as distinct from "your mother", as it was common practice for men at the time to have several wives. (both die) (Leviticus 20:20)
  • Having sex with your daughter-in-law. (Leviticus 20:30)
  • Incest. (Leviticus 20:17) [5]
  • (for men): Sex with a man in the same manner as sex with women. Generally interpreted as male homosexuality. The girls seem to get a free... errrr ...ride on this one. (Leviticus 18:22)
  • Marrying a woman and her daughter. They are all burnt to death (Leviticus 20:14)

A couple of these demand that the "sinners" be burned to death rather than stoned — which was the more usual form of capital punishment. One can wonder why these crimes in particular merit this especially horrible fate.

Religious laws

Parents and Children

Violent and legal crimes

Deuteronomy 19:20 explicitly identifies that the purpose of this is deterrence. "The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing (malicious and false testimony by one man against another) be done among you." Presumably all the other death penalties are assumed to be for deterrence as well.
  • Ignoring the verdict of a judge – (or a priest!) (Deuteronomy 17:8-13).
  • Not penning up a known dangerous bull, if the bull subsequently kills a man or a woman. Both the animal and the reckless owner of the dangerous bull are to be put to death. (Exodus 21:29)

Things that don’t go anywhere else

  • Living in a city that failed to surrender to the Israelites. (Kill all the men, make the women and children slaves.) (Deuteronomy 20:12-14)

Possible grounds for execution

The following carry the punishment of being "cut off from his people". Some people seem to feel that this is the same as the death penalty, although the ancient Israelites may simply have interpreted it as exile.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people

FatalitiesCrimeMethod usedBiblical reference
20 million (estimated).People being evil.Drowning (Yes, even the Plesiosaurs).Genesis 6:8
The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (population of Sodom estimated to be 600-1200, Gomorrah presumably would be similar).According to Genesis: Being evil and wanting to rapeangels. Though one might wonder how this particular fantasy might be carried out.
According to Ezekiel (depending on translation): Being prideful (arrogant), overfed and unconcerned (having an abundance of idleness); neglecting the poor and needy; being haughty and committing abominations before God. Basically, having fun.

No mention of homosexuality.

Burnt to death by a rain of burning sulfur.Genesis 19:4-5
Ezekiel 16:46-47 (specifically Ezekiel 16:49-50)
Lot’s wife.Pausing to look back at the spectacle of God's fiery wrath.Transformed in to a pillar of salt.Genesis 19:26
Er, the firstborn of Judah.Being "wicked in the sight of the Lord"Not specifiedGenesis 38:7
Onan (Er’s brother and apparent inventor ofonanism)Disobeying God's orders to impregnate his dead brother's wife (or “spilling his seed”).Not specifiedGenesis 38:9-10 (unlucky family)
The firstborn of Egypt.Being firstborn when God decided to show his strength. God hardenedPharaoh's heart so he refused to let the Israelites go. Psychotic andincompetent. What a combination.The Angel of Death.Exodus 12:29(Rather tough on the kids who really had nothing to do with it.)
The Egyptian army.Refusing to disobey orders to pursue the Israelites fleeing through the Red Sea, which was parted with walls of water on both sides of the path.Drowned when the seawater returned.Exodus 14:28
Nadab and Abihu, sons of Aaron.Offering strange fire before the Lord.Burnt to deathLeviticus 10:1-3 (God, being a perfectionist, does not tolerate mistakes during rituals.)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Having low moraleFireNumbers 11:1-3 (Counselling evidently was not an option)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Eating quailsPlagueNumbers 11:31-35
Ten scouts sent to explore the promised landSpreading bad reports about this land containing giants, and being too difficult to conquer.PlagueNumbers 14:36-38
Korah, Dathan, Abiram and their respective families.Claiming to be as holy as Moses and Aaron.The earth opened up and swallowed them - burying them alive.Numbers 16:27-32, which implies the children were killed, but Numbers 26:11 states Korah's children survived.
250 Israelites.Followers of Korah (see above)Burnt to death by fire from God.Numbers 16:35
14,700 Israelites.Complaining about the previous two loving assassinations concerning Korah.PlagueNumbers 16:49(The management thanks you for your feedback. Now die!)
Undisclosed number of Israelites.Despairing, and complaining about the quality of bread.Being bitten to death by divinely summoned fieryserpents, although casting an idol of a snake and looking upon it would prevent them from dying.Numbers 21:4-9 (Honestly, wouldn't it be cool just to try this to see it happen? C'mon, I dare ya...)
24,000 IsraelitesSexual immorality with Moabite women and worshiping Baal.Plague.Numbers 25:9(Proving once more that despite God being obviously real and very jealous, Israelites would worship a sandwich if Moses so much as popped out to buy a newspaper.)
Undisclosed number of AmmoritesWaging war against Israel, trying to protect themselves and their families from the holy slaughter that the Israelites regularly inflicted on their enemiesSending hailstones from HeavenJoshua 10:10-11
Either 70 or 50,070 Israelites (dependent on how the inerrant Bible is translated).Looking into the Ark of the Covenant (Like the ending of Indiana Jones: Raiders of The Lost Ark).Not specified1 Samuel 6:19(You would have thought the 50,070th Israelite would have more sense than to climb a mountain of 50,069 bodies and look into a box)
Nabal.David refrained from murdering Nabal's servants or stealing from him. He expected his kindness to be repaid in the form of gifts from Nabal, but Nabal declined. God killed Nabal before David had the chance to go "avenging thyself with thine own hand".Not specified1 Samuel 25:38(This was quite convenient as David, an avid collector of wives, got to marry Nabal's wife who was quite hot.)
Uzzah.Touching the Ark while trying to prevent it from tipping over.Not specified.2 Samuel 6:6-7 (No good deed goes unpunished.)
David and Bathsheba's baby boy.None. The baby was killed in order to punish David.Not specified2 Samuel 12:14-18 (The life of a baby is sacred, as explained by Christians, but it's worth squat when God is angry with the parents.)
70,000 assorted IsraelitesInspired by either God, or perhaps Satan - the Bible is a tad unclear - David took a census of his lands and people.Plague2 Samuel 24:13 , despite being told to by God in 2 Samuel 24:1. (Unless you read 1 Chronicles 21:1, where the devil did it)
An unnamed prophetThe prophet had been told by God to not eat bread, but another guy claimed he too was a prophet, and that God had commanded him to bring the prophet home for some food.Eaten by lions1 Kings 13:1-24 (That’s what happens when you follow the advice of self-proclaimedprophets.)
Jeroboam's son.None. Child killed to punish Jeroboam, to save him from a massacre God was planning for the rest of Jeroboam's family, and possibly also as a sign used to confirm a prophecy.Not specified. Died in his mother's arms.1 Kings 14:10-18 (God euthanizes a child to save him from the terrors of...His own wrath?)
An unnamed manRefusal to strike a prophet when ordered to do so by the prophet in question.Killed by a lion (God really enjoys using Lions inKings).1 Kings 20:35-36 (Weird or what?)
King AhaziahSeeking medical advice from a rival god, and Baal worship.Died in bed while recovering from an earlier fall.1 Kings 22:51 and 2 Kings 1:16(Baal must have been pretty good to compete with a Yahweh: the God who would incinerate your children on a whim.)
102 soldiersBeing impolite to Elijah and serving King Ahziah.Burnt to death.2 Kings 1:9-12 (This verse is worth reading, since it's almost comical the way in which the soldiers queue up to be incinerated.)
42 youths.They mocked Elisha's bald head.No kidding - God sends 2 she-bears to maul them to death.2 Kings 2:23-24 (Evidently there weren't any lions to hand).[1]
Some foreigners.Not worshiping GodKilled by lions2 Kings 17:25-26 ("Death by lion" crops up with suspicious frequency. Did the author of Kings have some kind of lion-phobia?)
185,000 soldiers.Being at war with IsraelKilled by the angel of the Lord while they slept.2 Kings 19:35
Jeroboam.Rebelling against Abijah, the king of Israel based on dependence from David.Not specified2 Chronicles 13:20
Jehoram.Doing evil in the sight of the Lord.Stricken by a disease that caused his bowels to fall out.2 Chronicles 21:14-19 (Nasty way to go.)

Just wanted to quote these for easy access. Thanks! :)

Quoting it again just because :)

#148 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1692 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: So the video is basically saying, "Screw childhood imagination, Jehovah would be sad!" That's sick.

And isn't God technically "magic" to begin with? This is why I don't believe in religion. A child could see this on TV and screw him up for life. I used to be a Christian, and if I saw this commercial as a kid, I would be scarred too, just so I can not make a fictional deity "sad." Ridiculous.

#149 Edited by WillPayton (11489 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: So the video is basically saying, "Screw childhood imagination, Jehovah would be sad!" That's sick.

And isn't God technically "magic" to begin with? This is why I don't believe in religion. A child could see this on TV and screw him up for life. I used to be a Christian, and if I saw this commercial as a kid, I would be scarred too, just so I can not make a fictional deity "sad." Ridiculous.

I have a young niece and nephew... and I'd be horrified if someone was showing this shit to them. It IS child abuse, because unlike adults who can look at this and take it or leave it, a child will see this and be scared and traumatized. They'll start thinking that their toys are evil, the TV shows they watch are evil, their friends are going to burn in Hell forever. They'll become paranoid, fearful, and grow up to be total basket cases.

#150 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: I can't agree with the last part. I was never taught that every non-Christian was against Christians. Even in the few times I've gone to church I have never heard this.

If anything, I'd like to think religion teaches, "We're the same and share the same beliefs, they're different." Not necessarily against, but different, yes. However, this mentality is EVERYWHERE.

"I have a higher IQ and attended a better School. I'm better than he is."

"He's a felon, I'm not, I'm better than he is."

"I'm rich, he's poor, I'm better than he is."

" I'm Asian, he's white. I'm better than he is."

In every aspect of society, independent of religion, there are ways to differentiate ourselves amongst one another.

The same can also be said for politics.

I was looking at the ultimate end, those who are not in the Church will not get Life Everlasting (Heaven) but will burn in Everlasting Fire (Hell).

They can tell you to respect others and what not but an invisible wall have already been erected. Those in the Church perceive themselves as saved but the rest of the world damned.