Real Science Makes Comics A Drag

Now I am starting to understand why superheroes defy physics on a daily basis. Real science really limits what your heroes can do, which is ESPECIALLY frustrating when your making superheroes of your own.

Case in point, I made a heroine who generates her own oxygen out her lungs and has a has fire shield that is 2 inches off her body/costume. I thought that maybe she could fly thanks to the oxygen and fire creating thrust...well real science stopped me:

Oxygen is a non-combustible gas. This is very confusing to a lot of people, because television and movies rarely get it right. Oxygen will not burn, and will not explode when exposed to a spark or ignition source. After all, combustion is the exothermic process of adding oxygen to a substance at a very high rate. What would be the reaction equation of burning oxygen? O2 + O2 -> 2O2? That isn't a reaction.

Now, oxygen is necessary for combustion of other materials, and the higher the partial pressure of oxygen you have, the faster that reaction will progress. So a person's clothing, if saturated in a high partial pressure of oxygen, will ignite more easily and burn hotter and faster than it would with only room air. Under sufficient O2 partial pressure, some materials will spontaneously combust, or may change from fire resistant to being readily combustible. That's why you don't use petroleum products on oxygen O-rings, and you shouldn't smoke in an oxygen tent. The oxygen won't "catch on fire" but your clothing, the tent or the bed linens may, and with great enthusiasm.

So now I have the choice of:

A: Change my character's powers to allow her to fly in another manner (annoying to say the least). Or...

B: Willingly ignore the laws of science and take my rightful place among the greats of comic fiction LOL.

Oxygen makes fire burn better but it does not explode, it only does that when combined with other gases.

So unless I make her breathe hydrogen and oxygen...man that would lead to some weird complications. My head is about to explode LOL (yes I did do a bit of research, yahoo questions thanks).

@lorbo: and people wonder why I like magic over sci-fi.

Say the magic word draw a few symbolic gestures and the rules of physics just bend over and suck it.

Yeah, I prefer using magic to explain powers, although I just use science magic.

@Decoy Elite said:

although I just use science magic.

science magic is an oxymoron.

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Decoy Elite said:

although I just use science magic.

science magic is an oxymoron.

No it's a wonderful plot devise I use. "How does this robot have emotions?" Magic got in it. "How is this demon a virus?" Science really messes with magic sometimes. "How is this scientist able to make all this tech that should outright not work?" Magic all up in that science.

Look this is a simple thing to overcome. The real world, our universe, is separate from the fictional universe. The laws and logic that define our universe don't define the fictional universe as they are laws of the real world. The laws of gravity and the weight of a person's skeletal structure etc. are what keep humans from flying unaided, but it only limits us, not creations in the fictional universe because the same laws don't apply there. Simply, the laws of the real world don't apply because it's not real.

@spinningbirdcake said:

Look this is a simple thing to overcome. The real world, our universe, is separate from the fictional universe. The laws and logic that define our universe don't define the fictional universe as they are laws of the real world. The laws of gravity and the weight of a person's skeletal structure etc. are what keep humans from flying unaided, but it only limits us, not creations in the fictional universe because the same laws don't apply there. Simply, the laws of the real world don't apply because it's not real.

Good point...however superheroes tend to try to insert realism in someways anyway. I guess it's a popular option for some reason. Somehow more appealing, makes a greater impact on the viewer when they start believing things could happen that never EVER will. Hmmm....interesting thought.

@Decoy Elite: Soo you're an alchemist?

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Decoy Elite: Soo you're an alchemist?

Never thought of it that way.

But I'm okay with that.

@Decoy Elite said:

@redbird3rdboywonder said:

@Decoy Elite: Soo you're an alchemist?

Never thought of it that way.

But I'm okay with that.

Alchemy is a perfect excuse

@lorbo: Oh sure people, including myself, have a habit of relating fiction to our lives and what we've experienced, understandably so as that's the only thing we could relate them to. Once I get past that it's much easier to enjoy the story. I laugh when people say "this time travel story doesn't make sense." If you're trying to make sense of a time travel story you'd think they were all dumb as time travel can't happen. But if you look at the story through the lenses of that fictional universe then time travel can make perfect sense.

@spinningbirdcake said:

@lorbo: Oh sure people, including myself, have a habit of relating fiction to our lives and what we've experienced, understandably so as that's the only thing we could relate them to. Once I get past that it's much easier to enjoy the story. I laugh when people say "this time travel story doesn't make sense." If you're trying to make sense of a time travel story you'd think they were all dumb as time travel can't happen. But if you look at the story through the lenses of that fictional universe then time travel can make perfect sense.

I just came to the conclusion, FORGET physics. I will just make up some consistent power and explain away the origin based on alien tech that is far beyond our human understanding.

Not magic but may as well be...given how it defies physics. Some of physics will effect it, (like popular fiction) but it will also be able to defy physics (which let's face it, there aint one hero who doesn't, ESPECIALY a certain guy with a bat costume).

That's all my friend...I apologize if the posts are a bit much. But I do appreciate your advice, whatever power I choose will be consistent, even if it defies science and breaks laws. : )

The overzealous obsession with realism among parts of the comic fandom annoyed the hell out of me.

Give her telekinesis and you explained everything, super strength, flight etc

Eh, just explain it away with abstract philosophy and science.

@Crom-Cruach said:

science magic is an oxymoron.

Science magic is awesome. >:(

@AtPhantom said:

@Crom-Cruach said:

science magic is an oxymoron.

Science magic is awesome. >:(

Why do I get the impression that neither you nor Decoy know what an oxymoron is?

@Crom-Cruach: Two words that are opposites put next to each other. Or somethin' around that definition.

thats why me happy i shut smart part of blurn when reads comix

@Decoy Elite said:

@Crom-Cruach: Two words that are opposites put next to each other. Or somethin' around that definition.

ox·y·mo·ron

[ok-si-mawr-on, -mohr-] Show IPA

noun,pluralox·y·mo·ra [ok-si-mawr-uh, -mohr-uh] Show IPA , ox·y·mor·ons.Rhetoric.afigureofspeechbywhichalocutionproducesanincongruous,seeminglyself-contradictoryeffect,asin“cruelkindness”or“tomakehasteslowly.”

There science magic cannot exist because it's a complete contradiction. Magic is the opposite of science since one is the study of natural law, while the other is the study of forces that defy natural law (the supernatural)

@Crom-Cruach: When I use the phrase science magic I'm referring to when magic is used to make something was scientifically constructed work by defying natural laws. Or a character simply applying scientific like study to magic, IE finding it's rules and defining just what it can be used to do.

It is not a literal combination of the two things.

@Decoy Elite said:

@Crom-Cruach: When I use the phrase science magic I'm referring to when magic is used to make something was scientifically constructed work by defying natural laws. Or a character simply applying scientific like study to magic, IE finding it's rules and defining just what it can be used to do.

It is not a literal combination of the two things.

that's two different things you're describing. The first is either techno-magic or techno-mysticism. The second is just using the scientific method on magic (the scientific method itself not necessarily being science).

I expect better locution from an veteran like you Decoy *full on nerd mode*

@Crom-Cruach: Dang it I'm not good with making up terms. I thought up a fake metal and I called it Ventasium for goodness sake!

@Decoy Elite said:

@Crom-Cruach: Dang it I'm not good with making up terms. I thought up a fake metal and I called it Ventasium for goodness sake!

Techno-magic and techno-mysticism are words you can look up. Research man, research you lazy bum! :P

@Crom-Cruach: Man I've been making head cannon since way back when I had dial up. I am awful for research. :P

@Decoy Elite said:

I am awful for research. :P

Then start practicing!

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Decoy Elite said:

I am awful for research. :P

Then start practicing!

I'll practice by researching anatomy. Heard this Rob guy knows a lot about it.

@Decoy Elite: lol.

Science magic can exist, it just depends on how you are defining both those incredibly broad terms, words are words are words aren't real.

For me science is fun, when it comes to comics and fiction generally, you can just exploit the science in the sense we will never known absolutely everything, so the natural cure for explaining things that shouldn't really happen is creativity and imagination, as far if you enjoy making things as sciency and realistic as possible, you just remember there is a difference between trying to make realistic and trying to make real. Plus fictional characters are like real people, how they use terms and definitions will differ and contradict and you can also exploit that.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy." If Doctor Who has taught me anything, it's that if you don't explain the science behind something fictional, nobody's going to try to disclaim it simply because in the vastness it would be narcissistic to pretend to be able to predict every possibility that it could throw at you.

Science Magic is not necessarily an oxymoron.

It depends on the nature of Magic, in the 'universe' in question. In some fictional universes, magic is just another natural force, that modern science has not yet discovered, let alone explained(in many of those fictional universes, there are more advanced races that have discovered, and explained, magic, and utilize it in the same way as we utilize electro-magnetism). In that case, "science magic", would be like saying "science electro-magnetism", "science gravity", "science strong-force", etc.

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Decoy Elite said:

although I just use science magic.

science magic is an oxymoron.

Science with a mixture of Magic is called Alchemy.

@lorbo: She can still fly with the attributes you gave her. Have her manipulate the Oxygen to become dense enough that it becomes high pressured. She would have to focus the high pressure of air above her to be dense enough that low pressure molecules can't phase right through it. While she does that, she can "turn her flames on". The heat of the flame would rise up, but the high pressure of the air is keeping the heat to raise all the way up into the sky but instead lifts the high air pressure upwards... Of course however, She would have to create some air pressure below her so that she can levitate upwards with the heat.... (aka Solid Oxygen)

Think of a balloon..... Or rather... and Hot Air Balloon....

Now.. that's just her levitating. How can you make her jet through the sky?

She would need some kind of propulsion while she's air bound. How can she do this? Simple... By manipulating the air pressure around her... You know how a balloon is upright, correct? If you are holding the base of the balloon (the part you blow air into) while the balloon has air, it shoots upward, correct?

Now.... How about when you point the balloon sideways? Ah! So have her manipuate the air pressure around her so that the pressure of the heat can escape one way when she flies.... Namely at the feet (if she is horizontal)...

Anyway, there is a book that I would advice you to read. It's pretty fun, but all the while, crammed with very knowledgeable info regarding the SCIENCE of SUPERHEROES.

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Decoy Elite said:

although I just use science magic.

science magic is an oxymoron.

Science with a mixture of Magic is called Alchemy.

@lorbo: She can still fly with the attributes you gave her. Have her manipulate the Oxygen to become dense enough that it becomes high pressured. She would have to focus the high pressure of air above her to be dense enough that low pressure molecules can't phase right through it. While she does that, she can "turn her flames on". The heat of the flame would rise up, but the high pressure of the air is keeping the heat to raise all the way up into the sky but instead lifts the high air pressure upwards... Of course however, She would have to create some air pressure below her so that she can levitate upwards with the heat.... (aka Solid Oxygen)

Think of a balloon..... Or rather... and Hot Air Balloon....

Now.. that's just her levitating. How can you make her jet through the sky?

She would need some kind of propulsion while she's air bound. How can she do this? Simple... By manipulating the air pressure around her... You know how a balloon is upright, correct? If you are holding the base of the balloon (the part you blow air into) while the balloon has air, it shoots upward, correct?

Now.... How about when you point the balloon sideways? Ah! So have her manipuate the air pressure around her so that the pressure of the heat can escape one way when she flies.... Namely at the feet (if she is horizontal)...

Anyway, there is a book that I would advice you to read. It's pretty fun, but all the while, crammed with very knowledgeable info regarding the SCIENCE of SUPERHEROES.

I appreciate what you say, but I will just stick with willing suspension of disbelief and unexplained alien biotechnology. I don't have the time to research multiple powers for multiple characters to make them scientifically accurate.

@lorbo said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Crom-Cruach said:

@Decoy Elite said:

although I just use science magic.

science magic is an oxymoron.

Science with a mixture of Magic is called Alchemy.

@lorbo: She can still fly with the attributes you gave her. Have her manipulate the Oxygen to become dense enough that it becomes high pressured. She would have to focus the high pressure of air above her to be dense enough that low pressure molecules can't phase right through it. While she does that, she can "turn her flames on". The heat of the flame would rise up, but the high pressure of the air is keeping the heat to raise all the way up into the sky but instead lifts the high air pressure upwards... Of course however, She would have to create some air pressure below her so that she can levitate upwards with the heat.... (aka Solid Oxygen)

Think of a balloon..... Or rather... and Hot Air Balloon....

Now.. that's just her levitating. How can you make her jet through the sky?

She would need some kind of propulsion while she's air bound. How can she do this? Simple... By manipulating the air pressure around her... You know how a balloon is upright, correct? If you are holding the base of the balloon (the part you blow air into) while the balloon has air, it shoots upward, correct?

Now.... How about when you point the balloon sideways? Ah! So have her manipuate the air pressure around her so that the pressure of the heat can escape one way when she flies.... Namely at the feet (if she is horizontal)...

Anyway, there is a book that I would advice you to read. It's pretty fun, but all the while, crammed with very knowledgeable info regarding the SCIENCE of SUPERHEROES.

I appreciate what you say, but I will just stick with willing suspension of disbelief and unexplained alien biotechnology. I don't have the time to research multiple powers for multiple characters to make them scientifically accurate.

No biggy.

I just came across the thread and upon reading, I was certain she could still fly, or at least levitate.

If you've noticed, Marvel Comics is the company that sticks well with Science although they have a division that specialized in Mysticism and its relevance to Spatial Dimensions. DC is a little bit more in the nonrealism despite being sciencefiction. They can not explain (science can't explain) how Superman & Wonder Woman fly for example... In the old days, Wonder Woman was able to fly via invisible plane and Superman was only able to use the power of his legs to allow him to jump as high as a 100 story building (Golden Ages). But today, they can not explain how they can do, half of the things they do.... Save for Batman & DeathStroke.

@Crom-Cruach: Man I should have known you'd have insistent terminology in this matter. :P