#1 Edited by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

So Say We All!!!.....right?

#2 Posted by EpicTayMan (2542 posts) - - Show Bio

FIRST Comment Yes!!!!

#3 Edited by Dragonborn_CT (22624 posts) - - Show Bio

A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society. Political correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups.

Ben Croshaw

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#4 Posted by PowerHerc (84362 posts) - - Show Bio

If race truly did not exist then this thread wouldn't have to claim it didn't.

#5 Posted by CuddleBear (1242 posts) - - Show Bio

Comrades! Count me in!!!!!

#6 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society. Political correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups.

Ben Croshaw

Nobody is suggesting censorship. Just stating the fact that race does not exist. Why categorize people based on the pigmentation of their skin? Makes about as much since as grouping people based on eye or hair color.

#7 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

If race truly did not exist then this thread wouldn't have to claim it didn't.

So if I make the thread "Vampires do not exist" they become real? COOOL

#8 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

Race is really only cosmetic. I think currently, people are experiencing unfair treatment due to race. However, this is something ALL of us have to fight to change. There is NO race when we all unite to accomplish this goal, which is all of our problems until we reach true equality.

As for this thread, ask almost any black person, there are times where they are treated unfairly due to their race, and saying there is no race might actually be rather offensive because it is ignoring the problems that people face.

#9 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (22624 posts) - - Show Bio

@_gaff_ said:

@dragonborn_ct said:

A society where anyone can make jokes about anyone else and everyone laughs is a truly tolerant society. Political correctness-charged censorship only serves to engender resentment and distance between social groups.

Ben Croshaw

Nobody is suggesting censorship. Just stating the fact that race does not exist. Why categorize people based on the pigmentation of their skin? Makes about as much since as grouping people based on eye or hair color.

I wasn't suggesting it either, man. I just found the quote cool.

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#10 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

@_gaff_ said:

@powerherc said:

If race truly did not exist then this thread wouldn't have to claim it didn't.

So if I make the thread "Vampires do not exist" they become real? COOOL

#11 Posted by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

We all come from adaptations of their ancestors' bodies to the environments they lived in, we aren't a different race per se, but it's painstakingly obvious we're different.

#12 Edited by Yokergeist (12355 posts) - - Show Bio

But I like to race ;)

#13 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

We all come from adaptations of their ancestors' bodies to the environments they lived in, we aren't a different race per se, but it's painstakingly obvious we're different.

Examples?

#14 Posted by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanralphio said:

We all come from adaptations of their ancestors' bodies to the environments they lived in, we aren't a different race per se, but it's painstakingly obvious we're different.

Examples?

You're right, hey look a white guy:

#15 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@jeanralphio said:

We all come from adaptations of their ancestors' bodies to the environments they lived in, we aren't a different race per se, but it's painstakingly obvious we're different.

Examples?

You're right, hey look a white guy:

This is the type of thinking that keeps people separate. All I see is cosmetic differences. He has the same potential for success, same needs, same species, two arms, two legs ect....

#16 Posted by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

This is the type of thinking that keeps people separate. All I see is cosmetic differences. He has the same potential for success, same needs, same species, two arms, two legs ect....

No it doesn't, just because I can see the difference between you & I, doesn't mean I'm hesitant towards you or I don't like you, it means I can use the eyes I was born with and I'm using "you" generally.

#17 Posted by Joygirl (20044 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how he specifically and angrily blames Caucasian people during his rant.

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#18 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

I like how he specifically and angrily blames Caucasian people during his rant.

I think he was purposely being hypocritical for comic effect. He said "Caucasian race" even though he is clearly of the opinion that there is only the human race.... And it was not a rant.

#20 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

This is the type of thinking that keeps people separate. All I see is cosmetic differences. He has the same potential for success, same needs, same species, two arms, two legs ect....

No it doesn't, just because I can see the difference between you & I, doesn't mean I'm hesitant towards you or I don't like you, it means I can use the eyes I was born with and I'm using "you" generally.

All you can say is that we are different in the pigmentation of our skin, the color of our eyes, and hair ect... We are all the same in functionality, and are all deserving of equality, race shouldn't be a separating aspect of our current culture, it is something that cannot be chosen.

#21 Edited by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

I like how he specifically and angrily blames Caucasian people during his rant.

Well, white people are the cause of the world's problems...

#22 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9380 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

I like how he specifically and angrily blames Caucasian people during his rant.

Well, white people are the cause of the world's problems...

I could have sworn that it was "bad people" that were the cause of the worlds problems.....

#23 Posted by Racob7 (5792 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

I like how he specifically and angrily blames Caucasian people during his rant.

Well, white people are the cause of the world's problems...

#24 Posted by Mitran (318 posts) - - Show Bio

if race didn't exist we wouldn't have the black people thread

#25 Posted by Farkam (4932 posts) - - Show Bio

if race didn't exist we wouldn't have the black people thread

Discussions like this exist due to old attitudes towards race. Plz think this through harder next time. Not saying I agree with the OP though.

#26 Posted by Mitran (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@farkam said:
@not_a_geist said:

if race didn't exist we wouldn't have the black people thread

Discussions like this exist due to old attitudes towards race. Plz think this through harder next time. Not saying I agree with the OP though.

but race does exist.

#27 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10550 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

#28 Edited by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

How? How does the pigmentation of your skin have anything to do with culture?

#29 Posted by Orician_Seis (491 posts) - - Show Bio

If society says it exists then it exists.

#30 Posted by ImpurestCheese (5236 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanralphio: There are historic and modern examples of 'problems' that have nothing to do with the Caucasian race. Stuff like the Rwandan Massacre. I'm not saying that Caucasian people are blameless but instead of tarring a race with the same brush you should check your history, you don't have to be white to cause a problem.

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#31 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

A world without sprinters, F1 cars and the gone of one of our oldest competitions

we can move on

#32 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

A world without sprinters, F1 cars and the gone of one of our oldest competitions

we can move on

What?

#33 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33629 posts) - - Show Bio

people should need to be convinced that we are all the same. They should be convinced that we are all different and that's ok.

#34 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

people should need to be convinced that we are all the same. They should be convinced that we are all different and that's ok.

Yes. We are all different. We are all individuals. It is wrong to try to categorize each other and lump us into groups based on genetic traits.

#35 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10550 posts) - - Show Bio

@_gaff_ said:

@nelomaxwell said:

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

How? How does the pigmentation of your skin have anything to do with culture?

Well it's safe to say that Poly-rhythms weren't created by people who weren't Black. There must be a reason for it.

#36 Edited by EdBlank (540 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no short people either. No fat people. Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "Nah Nanny Boo Boo" doesn't make the boogeyman go away. There are races. Different races have different characteristics. You don't have to wish them away to do the right thing, just stop being a freaking prick about it. Easy.

#37 Posted by marvel_boy2241 (2468 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh. I wish race didn't exist but sadly it does.

#38 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@_gaff_ said:

@nelomaxwell said:

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

How? How does the pigmentation of your skin have anything to do with culture?

Well it's safe to say that Poly-rhythms weren't created by people who weren't Black. There must be a reason for it.

So you think the pigmentation of of somebody's skin has something to do with the ability to create music? No offense but that is absurd.

@edblank said:

There's no short people either. No fat people. Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "Nah Nanny Boo Boo" doesn't make the boogeyman go away. There are races. Different races have different characteristics. You don't have to wish them away to do the right thing, just stop being a freaking prick about it. Easy.

You are completely missing the point. Pigmentation of our skin is just like any other genetic trait. Do you consider short people a different "race"? Do you consider people with red hair a different "race"? Why not? Its the same logic as making "races" based on skin color.

#39 Posted by SuperStar_sketcher (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

i get it it dosent exist (its not defined) by the color more by your cultural uniqueness

#40 Edited by SC (13148 posts) - - Show Bio

Understanding and knowing always requires more effort and ability than believing. Our species has come a long way relatively speaking, but most people still assert beliefs about reality than understanding or even attempting to understand. This is why in forums for discussion you end up with a majority of people asserting beliefs rather than seeking clarification, trying to understand others or trying to get others to understand them. Great pattern for self and belief affirmation, not so good for critical questioning ability and find accuracy and validity as far as assertions.

The idea of race should be understood to be primarily a social construct by everyone in this thread, as in an idea applied by peoples in the past, established as real and perpetuated over time as reality. You know people who also believed that human health and medicine was to do all about balance of black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood. Do we have posters asserting that this is truth and reality? Some societies and peoples in society will still adhere to this belief and understanding. Do most of the posters here adhere to modern day medicine when they get sick? When family and friends get sick? Human intuition works about the same today as it did 1000 years ago, what's different is how much more knowledge is readily available at earlier stages for less (and environments). Basically that means that unless someone is particularly aware, learned, educated, knowledgeable and able, many modern day persons ideas about what distinguishes people from each other can be as advanced as persons 1000 years ago. So yeah, the idea of all these different races as applied as far as blacks, whites, browns and so on, in an objective scientific way has long been proven inaccurate. Peeps here can easily access the etymology, history, application of some of these terms, how they originated, evolved and were adapted. Not really anything to do with trying to apply a colorblind attitude, just that peoples ideas about how and why we are different got slap by the advancement and improved understanding of genetics. Its like that white racist who had to deal with the fact he had black ancestors. Yeah he thinks he is white and a different "race" but not how it works. People are relatively similar and relatively different. One big similarity? Tendency to simplify and categorize things. Also tendency to be curious and inquisitive and empathic as well. That helps a lot when overlaying various layers of context over each other to see how they interact.

For an example life on Earth being carbon based then someone claiming that they are actually made of fluffy sparks and soul shards and carbon based life forms just trying to pretend everyone is the same…contrasted with people asserting that because we are all made up of different molecular arrangements laws and rules for each single specific being need to be draw up because we are all different. Neither extreme is exclusively accurate (we all the same, we are all different), both are and because they are such extremes examples its easy for some folks to understand that compatibility. Application of race? Well its a bit simple, its a bit like humorism. Most of the ideas and factors one would traditionally mean when referring to race is actually usually probably more about genetics, ethnicity, culture, history, visual and physical characteristics and development, social status, socioeconomic status and mobility, nationality, individuals conformity and deviation from various groups they interact with and are viewed as belonging to, psychology, individual and group, and basically a lot more complicated overlap, interaction than when some ancient Egyptians started vilifying other ancient Egyptians for superficial physical reasons. You know similar reasons why in modern times Hutu slaughter Tutsi. Its an applied idea not a fact and its an idea thats outdated and been surpassed by superior ideas and knowledge and understanding. Most importantly I invite discussion, questions and criticisms. Googled to see what sort of links come up - not so bad link. Oh and some parts in OP video I raise a skeptical eyebrow at too, mind you. Great thread though all the same.

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#41 Posted by SuperDrummer (723 posts) - - Show Bio

Well... It's different where I live.

I'll use a couple people I know as examples

1: Parents are second generation immigrants of Africa, and it is quite obvious in skin color. Dresses nicely, gets straight As, takes the hardest classes offered, student president (Elected by the students), and is overall one of the most popular students in the school. Never has any problem with his race.

2: African American, sags his pants halfway down his legs, wears a swag hat, has a 1.3 GPA, always complains that everyone hates him because he's black when anyone critics anything he does, when really he's just an idiot, and no one would like him regardless of race.

3: Black model, dresses nicely, the nicest guy in history, great musician, there isn't a single person who ridicules him for his race.

At least where I live, racism (between black & white people) has honestly more or less gone away, and the only people who complain about it are whiners who have never experienced real racism. I've been to the southern part of the country, so I can say this from experience.

#42 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Thanks for taking the time to write that well thought out statement. I agree with most of what you said. May I ask what part of the video made you raise an eyebrow?

#43 Posted by SC (13148 posts) - - Show Bio

@_gaff_ said:

May I ask what part of the video made you raise an eyebrow?

Yeah sure! Oh and thanks. The parts that were a bit iffy for me, well I think people like Edward James Olmos are very important and he will reach a far greater audience than say myself and he is charismatic and his message has power and authority, and that I can respect and appreciate. Some of is lines and application comes off a bit preachy though, in the sense he will apply his understanding of knowledge in a way that is more opinion than knowledge or accurate understanding. Like when he asserts the cause behind how terms and ideas like race come about "out of a need to make ourselves different from one another, we have made the word race a way if expressing culture" (paraphrased) I don't think thats accurate. In some ways it could be interpreted as kind of accurate, just the wording is a bit messy. The wording implies a sense agency and decision making with processes that can involve many implicit, imprecise factors and a whole lot of ignorance and guesswork. Less need and more consequence for example, I think would be better wording.

Oh and his line about 600 years ago the caucasian race? Humans have been applying such terms/ideas and other similar terms/ideas along the same lines and or for similar effects to vilify others, extol and glorify themselves for much much much longer. I find his example detracts from his point, especially as far as established the legitimacy of races as being reality based as opposed to social construct, as in perceptions. We have so many examples of different groups and populations of people doing this to others but others perceptions and understanding of some groups to be inclusive of the very groups they themselves view as very separate/inferior. I think those examples better highlight the flaws in thinking of races as applied classically.

Short version he comes across as a relatively well read and charismatic actor rather than say a scientist specializing in biological anthropology or genetics so on. Not that I was expecting him to, I think he did a good job and his approach will work for some people but for others not as much. Someone like myself is extra skeptical whenever someone starts off any line with "the truth is" heh heh. Sort of make sense and clear up my comment?

Moderator
#44 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10550 posts) - - Show Bio

@_gaff_ said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@_gaff_ said:

@nelomaxwell said:

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

How? How does the pigmentation of your skin have anything to do with culture?

Well it's safe to say that Poly-rhythms weren't created by people who weren't Black. There must be a reason for it.

So you think the pigmentation of of somebody's skin has something to do with the ability to create music? No offense but that is absurd.

None taken as your opinion has not real authorship . No offense.

#45 Posted by Raiiyn (3530 posts) - - Show Bio

Race is really only cosmetic. I think currently, people are experiencing unfair treatment due to race. However, this is something ALL of us have to fight to change. There is NO race when we all unite to accomplish this goal, which is all of our problems until we reach true equality.

As for this thread, ask almost any black person, there are times where they are treated unfairly due to their race, and saying there is no race might actually be rather offensive because it is ignoring the problems that people face.

Race is just a human construct though. In reality it doesn't exist.

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

That is the most ridiculous claim. Sorry but you're wrong. As a student of anthropology, the study of human culture, race has absolutely nothing to do with a person's culture. Race is a cultural construct that is not even accepted as a legitimate term in the study of human culture. It has absolutely nothing to do with culture.

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#46 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10550 posts) - - Show Bio

@raiiyn said:

@cable_extreme said:

Race is really only cosmetic. I think currently, people are experiencing unfair treatment due to race. However, this is something ALL of us have to fight to change. There is NO race when we all unite to accomplish this goal, which is all of our problems until we reach true equality.

As for this thread, ask almost any black person, there are times where they are treated unfairly due to their race, and saying there is no race might actually be rather offensive because it is ignoring the problems that people face.

Race is just a human construct though. In reality it doesn't exist.

@nelomaxwell said:

Everything exists somewhere. And by saying race does not exist you also claim cultural uniqueness doesn't either.

That is the most ridiculous claim. Sorry but you're wrong. As a student of anthropology, the study of human culture, race has absolutely nothing to do with a person's culture. Race is a cultural construct that is not even accepted as a legitimate term in the study of human culture. It has absolutely nothing to do with culture.

Ok.

#47 Posted by _Gaff_ (3435 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: "Sort of make sense and clear up my comment?"

Ya thanks. And I agree with you that he was wrong about the 600 years ago statement.

#48 Posted by cattlebattle (12825 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you guys know that designating someone as "black" or "white" initially had more to do with religion and was figurative and had nothing to with the actual color of someones skin. I just always find that interesting.

#49 Edited by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

@impurestcheese said:

@jeanralphio: There are historic and modern examples of 'problems' that have nothing to do with the Caucasian race. Stuff like the Rwandan Massacre. I'm not saying that Caucasian people are blameless but instead of tarring a race with the same brush you should check your history, you don't have to be white to cause a problem.

For people who read comics, you people seem to take everything so seriously, do you think I was serious? I'm going to spare you the jokes.

#50 Posted by superstay (9928 posts) - - Show Bio

If race truly did not exist then this thread wouldn't have to claim it didn't.

Dude, you're so close to making a starting point for a paradox.

d^_^b