R. Westbrook and J. Harden vs A. Iverson and R. Allen

In a 2 on 2 Half Court Basketball Game... Who would win if they played to 50 ? What would be the Score of the Game ?

For Clarity

Russell Westbrook of the 2012 - 13 NBA Season with the Oklahoma City Thunder

James Harden of the 2012 - 13 NBA Season with the Houston Rockets

vs

Allen Iverson of the 2000 - 01 NBA Season with the Philadelphia Sixers

Ray Allen of the 2000 - 01 NBA Season with the Milwaukee Bucks

So who wins guys ? What's the score ?

A.I and Ray Allen. 50-42. Westbrook can't guard either one of them and Ray's J is pure. Harden can't flop on the blacktop lol.

Westbrook and Harden. Not only are they better scorers, they're also MUCH better defenders. Ray's a liability on defense and won't be much help on either of Westbrook or Harden. AI's ineffencency will hurt the team, as will his hero ball, and let's not overrate his defense against Westbrook who is arguably just as fast and significantly stronger.

Russ and Beard 51-36

@xanni15: Westbrook and Harden. Not only are they better scorers,

Better scorers?AI in his prime was getting 30 points per game Westbrook and Harden have yet to get over 30,I agree they are both better the Ray Ray but not by much.

Ray's a liability on defense and won't be much help on either of Westbrook or Harden.

Let's not act like Harden is a good defender because he is almost as bad as Ray.

AI's ineffencency will hurt the team, as will his hero ball,

lol You are forgetting Westbrook is on the opposing team right? The guy some people call Russsell Westbrick?AI has never had a player on Durant's caliber,the reason he played "hero ball" with the 76er's is because his best players with them were Keith Van Horn and Mutumbo..... lol

let's not overrate his defense against Westbrook who is arguably just as fast and significantly stronger.

I think AI would do okay on Westbrook,Russ just needs to hope this won't happen to him:

I'm going with team 2, 50-39.

Hey... look at the Dialogue.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

This is going to turn into me bashing AI. lol

Yes, better scorers. I'm not going to compare either Harden or Russ to Ray in regards to shooting but I think that's the only offensive category he surpasses them, and as for defense, well, nothing needs to be said but I think you already agreed. :]

Iverson averaged a lot of points, but he was a chucker (to put it bluntly). I am well aware of his teammates, the lack of offensive help he had around him, and his size compared to others, however he was inefficient He can average 30PPG but for his career he was a sub 43% shooter, not bad as Westbrook is close around there too? A dreadful 3 point shooter (like Russ), and his FT% was okay, I guess. For his career he averaged 21.8 FGA per game, which isn't shocking considering he was his teams best player, the problem is that his career scoring average while taking those shots is only 26.7 PPG.

Let's looks at his 30 PPG seasons. Notice his MPG, FGA, 3PA, etc. I know it wasn't his fault he had no help, but still.

Essentially, if Westbrook was in a situation like AI, I don't doubt he'd put up AI like numbers (both good and bad). As we both know, Durant takes away from him just like he adds. Plus, Westbrook is a willing passer.

Based upon what? Actually Harden compares favorably with AI and surpasses Ray through 4 years in the league as far as defense, not to mention AI gambled for steals non stop. I'd say Russ is the best of the bunch defensive wise, then it's close between AI and Harden right now (if you want to gie it to AI I won't argue), and lastly Ray.

No, I didn't, but the stats tell otherwise. Westbrook actually doesn't shoot that much, I was surprised at this. I know it's partly because Durant, and Harden, but Russ actually takes his PG duties seriously. Plus, yeah, he obviously can't control his teammates. He elevated his game without Harden this season, look at Durant once he went down.

Let's not kid ourselves, Iverson LOVED the 76ers offense. He could (and a lot of times did) shoot the ball EVERY single time down the court and nobody would bat an eye. AI's teammates sucked on offense (except for a few like C-Webb putting up 20-10) but they were good on defense, especially Mutombo, McKie, Snow, Lynch, etc.

I doubt I need to state what a bad teammate Iverson was. Say what you will about Westbrook, the dude is a team player and wants to win.

Bigger, stronger, faster, better jumper and finisher, etc.

Tyron Lue? ROFL Westbrook would have destroyed the NBA back in Iverson's place, he dunks on bigs.

Don't jump, AI! :P

@xanni15: lol nice I concede.

AI solos...if we're talking about practice

AI and Ray Allen would crush them! You know this!

I also notice a few people trippin on Ray sayin he's liability on defense. Apparently you are looking and thinking of Ray Allen where he's at in career now. When the guy was at Seattle, he was a beast and could play decent defense, go back check some of the games back in the day, when him and Kobe used to have a fierce rivalry. When the Ray was in his prime he was the one you denied the ball. I don't have to speak on AI . These guys came in the league and played pretty much consistant night after night. Westbrook, Mr. inconsistent, I gotta shoot if Durant shoots the ball. The guy is as streaky as they come and still lack basketball discipline, he's immature and it shows in his gameplay and he's also jealous and craves the limelight. Harden is decent, but once again, will he be on or off. I'm gonna keep it real, I played this game for many years as well as watched it. This is a mismatch, A.I. and Ray for the curbstomp.

@xanni15 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@xanni15: Westbrook and Harden. Not only are they better scorers,

Better scorers?AI in his prime was getting 30 points per game Westbrook and Harden have yet to get over 30,I agree they are both better the Ray Ray but not by much.

This is going to turn into me bashing AI. lol

Yes, better scorers. I'm not going to compare either Harden or Russ to Ray in regards to shooting but I think that's the only offensive category he surpasses them, and as for defense, well, nothing needs to be said but I think you already agreed. :]

Iverson averaged a lot of points, but he was a chucker (to put it bluntly). I am well aware of his teammates, the lack of offensive help he had around him, and his size compared to others, however he was inefficient He can average 30PPG but for his career he was a sub 43% shooter, not bad as Westbrook is close around there too? A dreadful 3 point shooter (like Russ), and his FT% was okay, I guess. For his career he averaged 21.8 FGA per game, which isn't shocking considering he was his teams best player, the problem is that his career scoring average while taking those shots is only 26.7 PPG.

Let's looks at his 30 PPG seasons. Notice his MPG, FGA, 3PA, etc. I know it wasn't his fault he had no help, but still.

Essentially, if Westbrook was in a situation like AI, I don't doubt he'd put up AI like numbers (both good and bad). As we both know, Durant takes away from him just like he adds. Plus, Westbrook is a willing passer.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Ray's a liability on defense and won't be much help on either of Westbrook or Harden.

Let's not act like Harden is a good defender because he is almost as bad as Ray.

Based upon what? Actually Harden compares favorably with AI and surpasses Ray through 4 years in the league as far as defense, not to mention AI gambled for steals non stop. I'd say Russ is the best of the bunch defensive wise, then it's close between AI and Harden right now (if you want to gie it to AI I won't argue), and lastly Ray.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

AI's ineffencency will hurt the team, as will his hero ball,

lol You are forgetting Westbrook is on the opposing team right? The guy some people call Russsell Westbrick?AI has never had a player on Durant's caliber,the reason he played "hero ball" with the 76er's is because his best players with them were Keith Van Horn and Mutumbo..... lol

No, I didn't, but the stats tell otherwise. Westbrook actually doesn't shoot that much, I was surprised at this. I know it's partly because Durant, and Harden, but Russ actually takes his PG duties seriously. Plus, yeah, he obviously can't control his teammates. He elevated his game without Harden this season, look at Durant once he went down.

Let's not kid ourselves, Iverson LOVED the 76ers offense. He could (and a lot of times did) shoot the ball EVERY single time down the court and nobody would bat an eye. AI's teammates sucked on offense (except for a few like C-Webb putting up 20-10) but they were good on defense, especially Mutombo, McKie, Snow, Lynch, etc.

I doubt I need to state what a bad teammate Iverson was. Say what you will about Westbrook, the dude is a team player and wants to win.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

let's not overrate his defense against Westbrook who is arguably just as fast and significantly stronger.

I think AI would do okay on Westbrook,Russ just needs to hope this won't happen to him:

I'm going with team 2, 50-39.

Bigger, stronger, faster, better jumper and finisher, etc.

Tyron Lue? ROFL Westbrook would have destroyed the NBA back in Iverson's place, he dunks on bigs.

Don't jump, AI! :P

Don't get me started! Game over! AI and Ray Allen for the curbstomp! Action speaks louder than words, see the videos!

Ha Ha... I knew this would spark good convo.

@evilvegeta74: I don't understand the purpose of those, can you elaborate? AI is flashy no doubt, but showing highlight videos isn't the greatest barometer for skill.

@dccomicsrule2011: oh, that's no fun. :P

Seroiusly man, If you can't understand the purpose of highlight reels then you truly have no business even indulging in this type of conversation. It's over your head! I will humor you though sense you are lost( can't comprehend) , the video are there to prove that ( BB superstars/premier player in their day) AI and Ray Allen would obliterate ( Trying to be league elites in the league/not BB superstars yet) Harden and Inconsistant, I wanna be like Durant, Westbrook on the basketball court. The vids show you why, do yooooooooouu unnnnnderrrrrrrsttttaaaaaand noooooowww! . I mean MJ is one of the greatest of all time and one of the best defensive, well he got away with a lot of fouls on defense, but anyway, did you see AI break his ankles and many others? Did you see Ray Allen? Come on man you got a video with a dude that dunked , seriously, didn't you see that Kevin Durant commercial, "dude that jumped". Let the men have this conversation, sit back and learn a little bit. LMAO!

@evilvegeta74: I'm trying to be respectful and have a conversation, if you can't do that without insults than maybe it's over YOUR head, you manly man. There's really no need for this:

Oh, the irony.

This is exactly why I asked you to clarify, I didn't want to jump to a conclusion.

Highlight videos show highlights, only positives so if you want to ignore all of AI's and Ray's faults go right ahead. I can and have used stats to backup my stance, you're using... I'm not even sure what legitimate debate you're attempting to put together.

The videos showed AI and Ray's career highlights, would you like me to show their low points? [note: this would actually give some credence to your "argument"]

Do you have proof regarding anything about MJ that you posted?

The videos showed "your" biased opinion. AI crossing over Jordan proves what exactly, that AI's pinnacle was showing up the GOAT for one night (in a game he lost)? Yes, I saw Ray Allen, did you just change the channel whenever he played defense, though?

Actually, around these parts we call that "video" an animated .gif but they're pretty new so I forgive that mistake. Not to mention that the .gif wasn't directed at you, nor did you get the point of it.

So I'm going to just sit back and hope you can catch up, let me know if you need any help. :\

ZZZZzzzzzz! Did you say something relevant!

If its outside playground style two on two I'd ride with AI's squad. Indoor's I'd be more tempted to pick team one but.....nah. I'll still take team two. Stats, defensive prowess, discipline, meh. Just a gut feeling based off AI's style of play and Allen's sniper esq range. Especially if its make it take it.

@wavemotioncannon said:

Westbrook is completely capable of guarding either one and especially Ray Allen.

If you're going to respond to other users like this, then don't.

@vance_astro: Westbrook might be able to guard a young Ray Allen but he would still get buckets. As far as AI, he would mix either one of them up , I've seen him play on the street in DC against local legends while he was at GTown and he'd have Westbrook frustrated and off his game. Westbrook is good but he loses focus easily and would lose the game trying to show up AI.

@quintus_knightfall: THIS. I don't think people here quoting stats understand the difference between NBA games and 2 on 2 bump and grind basketball.

@wavemotioncannon said:

Any great scorer can score on anyone, that's a given. The question is will Ray really be effective guarded by Westbrook or Harden? If anything I would be more worried about Ray Allen guarding Westbrook than the other way around. I don't think Ray even at his best was fast or athletic enough to keep up with Westbrook. Westbrook can't shut A.I. down but there isn't a guard in the league that he can't d-up. A.I. isn't even that great of a shooter.

No contest team 2

Once again we are here talking about two basketball legends vs two basketball players trying to reach superstar status. I know Harden and Westbrook would never stand a chance against AI and Ray Allen, indoor or outdoor. If they play winners, where you get to keep the ball if you score then they would likely get skunked, if not Westbrook would cry and blow the game doing crazy immature things like he still does on the court now.The reason I say this is because there would be no way to stop AI period aside of fouling him. When AI breaks the ankles of whoever sticks him, which means someone would have to pick him up going to the hole everytime leaving Ray Allen open for the lay up, opp's I mean jumper everytime. Harden and Westbrook don't stand a chance.You know they will have to shoot for the possession of the ball to begin the game from the free throw line, can you say Ray Allen (90% and better free throw stats), then everthing explained above!

This truly says it all, Thank you for saying this. Like they used to say on Gi Joe" knowing is half the battle!"

@vance_astro: from 10-15 feet he's better than you think and he would mix Westbrook up. A young Allen could give either one of the other teams problems enough to keep them in the game. Westbrooks not that great of a shooter either. If this was make it take it they might get skunked.

@wavemotioncannon said:

Don't think he's going to be able to drive on Westbrook like that. Westbrook is too strong, too fast, too athletic. The idea that A.I. and Ray Allen would win easily if it was "make it take it" I think is B.S. because again A.I. isn't that great of a shooter, and either Westbrook or Harden is capable of guarding him. I'm not doubting Westbrook's poor shooting percentage but I'm not comparing A.I. offensively to Westbrook nor was I at any point even talking about what he can do offensively. I'm only talking about defense.

@vance_astro: well of course I'm exaggerating a lil bit. If AI drives they have to respect him, he can finish at the rack or kick it to Ray who is basically automatic from most of the floor. The flip side is Westbrook trying to back down AI and maybe kick it out to Harden.

@evilvegeta74 said:

Actually it doesn't say it all because someone was making the point of Harden and Westbrook being better shooters, which in fact COULD BE proven by their shooting percentages\stats.

@wavemotioncannon said:

I'm actually going with A.I. and Ray for the win, i'm just saying Westbrook is a better defender than you're giving him credit for.

Show me their outdoor shooting percentage. Stats dont always translate to the black top. Which is why you see NBA caliber players getting schooled by no names at the Rucker.

@quintus_knightfall said:

By this logic we can't comment on who will when then, we can only judge this on favoritism, because after all we don't have a clue how they well shoot on the black top, right?

Actually i've NEVER seen that, not that I believe that any NBA player is actually playing their best at the Rucker in the first place.

hahaha okay

Actually yeah, its based on perception, favoritism, opinion, etc. Stats prove what? How do their NBA shooting percentage factor into a two on two pick up game? How many percetanges of their shots came off double screen? Pick and roll? No wind, no weathered hands, etc. I dont know how many pick up games you've been in or watched but fundamentals go out the window. Its not even close to the same game and style. You can regurgitate stats but then by that logic it would mean who ever currently has the highest field goal percentage in the NBA right now (think its Chandler) would beat Lebron in one on one.

@quintus_knightfall said:

What I'm saying is at that point there is no reason to even debate. I can't back up my case if I can't use stats. I've played alot of pick up games in my life time, WITH people I played organized basketball with in high school. Those who are good shooters in the gym are good shooters outside of it. Allen Iverson isn't suddenly going to become a better shooter because he's outside instead of in a gym or a stadium. Tyson Chandler in comparison to Lebron doesn't even correlate. Most basketball fans know big men have better percentages based on where on the court they score at, but we're not comparing a big man to a shooter in this instance were comparing 4 guards.

@vance_astro: We'll just have to agree to disagree. Throwing out NBA stats from a controlled environment and thinking they just translate over into a pick up game in a completely different setting with vastly different variables doesn't make a lot of sense. Since YOU'VE (see I can emphasize too :D) played pick up and organized ball I would have thought you'd know the difference between five on five and two on two. And shooting on an inside rim and shooting on an outside one.

@quintus_knightfall said:

A pick up game is no different when we're talking about someone's ability to shoot the ball. I'm not saying that there is no difference between five on five and two on two, i'm saying shooting ability IS what it is regardless of the setting.

@vance_astro: Yes I know, and I'm saying you're wrong ;)

@quintus_knightfall said:

But what FACTS contradict what I'm saying though?

The variables are the FACTS. Weathered rims, outdoor ball compared to indoor ball (actual material alteration), wind, etc. Even in the NBA player shooting percentages alter from venue to venue gym to gym. Its not rocket science. But if you're asking for "pick-up game shooting stats" then I think we've taken this as far as we can hahaha

Boys and their sports

What a topic! LMAO!

@quintus_knightfall said:

Stats are an average. We don't know how someone is going to shoot inside or out of a different venue. That's impossible to predict, but just based on what is projected by stats, it's MORE LIKELY that Russell Westbrook would shoot well as opposed to Allen Iverson. Those variables don't particularly refute the idea of stats being valid material to back up an argument about scoring ability.

@vance_astro: Fair enough.

@quintus_knightfall said:

:)

Team One.

AI solos.