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#51 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: More oppressed than many feminists claim women are being. But, opinions are opinions.

#52 Posted by Pyrogram (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: Enlighten me, How are women less "oppressed" than men? Have you seen any Muslim states? ( Not being racist, its just a fact )

#53 Edited by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio
@pyrogram said:

@awesam: Enlighten me, How are women less "oppressed" than men? Have you seen any Muslim states? ( Not being racist, its just a fact )

See, I was going to specify, but I didn't think you would bring that up. I'm talking about Western countries. For sure, women are being unfairly oppressed in many countries. I'm not sexist and I'm not against womens rights. I'm just more about equal rights. By that, I mean, exact equal. If you're suggesting that we're being treated as exact equals, then you are wrong and the discussion's over.

#54 Edited by Pyrogram (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: Lol, of-course we are not equal. But give me some opinions rather than just stating oblivious facts, Why are "we" as in "men" not equal? I want to know your opinion based on SOMETHING rather than a simple opinion based on an ignorant basis from one work-place that is generic and means nothing in the scheme of things.

#55 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx:

Best you and I avoid communication. I remember you. Vividly.

@awesam said:

@lykopis: What I'm getting at is, it's a small change, but it's unnecessary. People should stop overreacting over fictional characters and I clearly can't stand feminists. Simple?

Apparently you are. Thank you for the clarification.

@pyrogram:

But I wanted to hear you laugh. :(

@lykopis: Well I know this is a revolutionary idea but if parents would actually raise their kids instead of letting Disney movies do it for them this wouldn't be an issue. Also since when are Disney princesses good role models for girls there are like maybe 3 of them that aren't completely useless without a guy to come save them. Snow White was a bumbling idiot, Sleeping Beauty literally slept through the most important part of the movie named after her, Little Mermaid gave up her entire life and changed everything about herself for some guy.

The mere fact that anyone wanted Merida to be an official Disney princess proved they didn't get the point of Brave.

There are no Disney Princess which do not require a man for happily ever after. I agree with your take on Disney Princesses.

Agree about Merida being an "official" Disney Princess. Not a group worth joining.

This isn't about parents having Disney raising their children, it's about their children liking a character for everything it is (as in, opposite to what a Disney Princess is) and making noise about how this character should be left alone. Discussing the why's (or why nots) to their children is worth it, in my opinion.

#56 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: I know I rarely hear anyone complain when male characters get a more buff make over.

But you are missing the point entirely. This isn't about taking a pretty princess and then over glamourizing her -- it's a complete revamp of the character itself.

As for buff male characters, that's a worthy discussion.

I haven't even seen the movie and I can tell what's up and why it's a big deal. I'm surprised other people can't.

Just from watching the previews you can tell she's not a girly girl, and seeing them do a redesign where she's got a lower cut dress, it's sparkly, she's standing much more feminine than seen in the first picture, and she's all made up with fancy hair. It's taking the personality of the character and instantly contradicting it to make her fit in with what many of the other Disney princesses look like. Which is ironic, since it seems like Brave is the kind of movie with a female character that's trying not to fit in with what's expected of females in society.

Pretty much my opinion but succinctly expressed. Thank you.

#57 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: I was giving you an example. I'm not thinking too much into this right now because I'm on my phone and I'm not home. Mind you, most of what I say is non-serious. In fact, this whole discussion started from a joke comment about feminists which seemed to have turned into a debate and I'm not sure why I'm really starting to think you're being serious right now, so if I must. For one, it's usually not allowed to have an all-male club, but it's perfectly acceptable for all-female clubs. It's well-known that men tend to get harsher court sentences than women do. It's also well-known that divorce laws favor women.

#58 Edited by Pyrogram (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Aww well *cuddles and laughs* Got ya wish :P

#59 Posted by Pyrogram (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: No offence bro, non at-all but let's talk when you have the time or actually want to take it seriously. for now...

#60 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio
#61 Posted by joshmightbe (24599 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing I still can't figure out about the movie Brave, when it came out I heard a bunch of people complaining that it promoted lesbianism but I've watched it a few times now and I just can't figure out why people jumped to that conclusion.

#62 Edited by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio
@pyrogram said:

@awesam: No offence bro, non at-all but let's talk when you have the time or actually want to take it seriously. for now...

Let's not. This is an unwinnable debate on both sides. You can disagree and call me ignorant. I'll do the same. You're basing your entire argument.. wait, you didn't have an argument. You just disagreed. You disagreed with nothing to counter my claims.

Because I'm not in the mood for an argument, I'll let you in one a little something. You didn't give me a good reason to continue, so I'm ending the discussion here. However, I do think the law (especially divorce) favors women. It's an opinion, but I have reason to believe it.

#63 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: If it was pointless why did you reply, the fact you had to reply was because there was a point and the point was she was the worst main character in a Pixar movie and that is saying something, since many of the pixar main characters really sucked.

#64 Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio
#65 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000:

I was addressing everyone's comments up to that point but you are right, I did address you when I could have just ignored you.

My reasoning was what you shared had nothing to do with the thread, and came across mean-spirited considering the character is being discussed as it pertains Disney princesses. That you consider her the worst of all Pixar main characters is fair since opinions are opinions. I apologize for assuming it was more than that.

#66 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

Something i love, people talks about Muslim States and Countries when run out of arguments, then go and talk about other countries, talking of thing they dont know for sure and it could be that actually is just tv and movies missinformation about this cultures or just opinions being seen as facts.

The Islamic world has many rules against women, but it also had many against men, many TV show over look the laws against men, so they make them looks sexist and more evil and twisted.

Look how paranoid TV is about guns, every year there is less gun related crimes.

Muhammad give rights to women, there is many thing to say, but that dont change he let women be free, since in the past they used to be slave.

Many people do everything to make him look bad and Islam look horrible, since there is a wars against the Islamic Culture, since there is a war on terrorism, amazingly the islamic terrorism is 1 % of the terrorism in all the world.

#67 Posted by Impy (123 posts) - - Show Bio

HOLY S**T this blew up fast!!! *Pops popcorn and puts on 3D glasses*

#68 Edited by Pyrogram (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:
@pyrogram said:

@awesam: No offence bro, non at-all but let's talk when you have the time or actually want to take it seriously. for now...

Let's not. This is an unwinnable debate on both sides. You can disagree and call me ignorant. I'll do the same. You're basing your entire argument.. wait, you didn't have an argument. You just disagreed. You disagreed with nothing to counter my claims.

Because I'm not in the mood for an argument, I'll let you in one a little something. You didn't give me a good reason to continue, so I'm ending the discussion here. However, I do think the law (especially divorce) favors women. It's an opinion, but I have reason to believe it.

Ohh dude...I would rip you apart so fast in a debate its not even a joke, Don't tempt me.

#69 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Impossible to find out. You'll never catch me having a serious debate over the internet.

#70 Posted by Impy (123 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

One thing I still can't figure out about the movie Brave, when it came out I heard a bunch of people complaining that it promoted lesbianism but I've watched it a few times now and I just can't figure out why people jumped to that conclusion.

Those people are most likely homophobic traditionalists. Any time a girl/woman acts anything like Merida in Brave, they think something's wrong with her.

#71 Posted by Pyrogram (35068 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: Good man, Understand when you cannot defeat somebody above your game ;)

#72 Posted by joshmightbe (24599 posts) - - Show Bio

@impy: Are they trying to say that only lesbians can fight magic bears? If that's true then they should make nice with them, I don't want our nation to fall to magic bear attack just because of some right wingers.

#73 Posted by ARMIV2 (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: It's really weird how Disney kinda missed the point of her character that way. Granted, I know they wanted her to look all nice and stuff for the ceremony, but I think there is a way that they could've made her look "nice and ceremonial " without creating the clash of character. There's also this big irony I'm seeing here as the company who seems to be championing individuality and "be yourself"-ness went and prettied up a character who was all about individuality and "be yourself"-ness.

#74 Posted by Impy (123 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@impy: Are they trying to say that only lesbians can fight magic bears? If that's true then they should make nice with them, I don't want our nation to fall to magic bear attack just because of some right wingers.

Finally! Someone else who takes the imminent threat of a magical bear siege on the world seriously!

#75 Edited by gumflabica (2160 posts) - - Show Bio

the newer one has a rounder face. annoyingly round. its unnartural. when you could use somebody's head to play a sport, wheather it be basketball or football, something is very wrong.

#76 Posted by joshmightbe (24599 posts) - - Show Bio

@impy: Zombie Apocalypses are for wusses. The Magical Bear apocalypse will be much worse.

#77 Posted by thespideyguy (2645 posts) - - Show Bio

The difference is she is wearing a lighter color and gave up the bow. The biggest difference is the bow. So I ask you this if disney wanted to market this towards little girls could they make more money with a princess with a bow ( that little girls would think is icky because you kill animals with it) or a princess that wears light colors and and golden things.

I thought she was already a disney princess. She was a princess in a disney movie so why wasn't she already a princess.

#78 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

Something i love, people talks about Muslim States and Countries when run out of arguments, then go and talk about other countries, talking of thing they dont know for sure and it could be that actually is just tv and movies missinformation about this cultures or just opinions being seen as facts.

The Islamic world has many rules against women, but it also had many against men, many TV show over look the laws against men, so they make them looks sexist and more evil and twisted.

Look how paranoid TV is about guns, every year there is less gun related crimes.

Muhammad give rights to women, there is many thing to say, but that dont change he let women be free, since in the past they used to be slave.

Many people do everything to make him look bad and Islam look horrible, since there is a wars against the Islamic Culture, since there is a war on terrorism, amazingly the islamic terrorism is 1 % of the terrorism in all the world.

You should make a thread about it.

@armiv2 said:

@lykopis: It's really weird how Disney kinda missed the point of her character that way. Granted, I know they wanted her to look all nice and stuff for the ceremony, but I think there is a way that they could've made her look "nice and ceremonial " without creating the clash of character. There's also this big irony I'm seeing here as the company who seems to be championing individuality and "be yourself"-ness went and prettied up a character who was all about individuality and "be yourself"-ness.

They'll come out with something -- no such thing as bad press, they'll take all this noise and make it into something else to make money off of. Oh yes, Disney is all about "girl power" but only if it fits old stereotypes. I wanted to love the Princess and the Frog so badly but in the end, it was still all about love and getting married, etc. I am no too big a fan of Disney, obviously. :)

the newer one has a rounder face. annoyingly round. its unnartural. when you could use somebody's head to play a sport, wheather it be basketball or football, something is very wrong.

Pretty much all the Disney princesses are unnatural in some way, lol. Their eyes alone are terrifying. o_o

#79 Posted by Auralaria (479 posts) - - Show Bio

Now I wish I'd seen the movie. I did like the father from the previews, and she seemed like a cool kat, but I never got around to it.

#80 Posted by ARMIV2 (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Heh, I hardly noticed.
I think Disney's already just trying to move on from it as quietly as they can. They pulled the main image from their site, but they said something about not pulling it for other places and merchandise. Something about a separate brand or something, I dunno.

#81 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23170 posts) - - Show Bio
#82 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio
#83 Edited by rogue_mar1e (19833 posts) - - Show Bio

In Merida's case, they could have done without all the sparkles to avoid the 'girly' look she disliked so much, it is quite a clash against her character's personality.

In respect of the re-designs of all the other Disney Princesses, the main problems with those is the fact that they're different to the classic versions people grew up with and loved~ I'm not too big of a fan of them myself, but I don't really mind, apart from the blinding amount of sparkles * ~ *

Anyway, addressing the feminist issue which has been brought up in the thread~ Disney was created in the vein of classic 1930s America, so a lot of what was created then and of later decades depicted the time period. The princess stories typically represent an even earlier time than that. So what we see in a lot of these films, such as young marriage and looking for a prince at and early age is a depiction of what it actually was like back then. As well as that, feminism doesn't necessarily mean you have to be manless. Feminism is doing what you want as a woman and being happy and feeling free to make your own choices without society's pressures~ so a housewife who enjoys what she's doing is no less feminist than a woman who is working strong at her career.

#84 Edited by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio

I thinking the debating could be a little more friendly and respectful in this topic >_>

But i agree with @rogue_mar1e on this. She hit the nail on the head in my opinion.

#85 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: oh yeah, I guess that makes sense

#86 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

The thing that really scares me of Brave, it was about the female castration and from time to time it looks like the Electra Complex.

Electra Complex is the female version of the Oedipus Complex.

Pixar next movie is going to be about a kid that when becames and adult kills his father and has sex with his mom, that sound very children related material.

Complex castration where the father pretty much make his daugther a son and takes away all the femenine attributes she has, Diana Complex, the daugther of Jupiter, he let her never get married, then give to her bows and arrow and she should only care about hunting and act like a man, or at least that is the complex.

In psychoanalytic theory this is the adoption of what are perceived as masculine traits & behavior in a female.

It can be interpreted psychoanalytically as a deep-seated, repressed desire in a woman to be a man.

Oedipus Complex The Comedy: See the New Pixar Movie Now.

@lykopis said:

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

Something i love, people talks about Muslim States and Countries when run out of arguments, then go and talk about other countries, talking of thing they dont know for sure and it could be that actually is just tv and movies missinformation about this cultures or just opinions being seen as facts.

The Islamic world has many rules against women, but it also had many against men, many TV show over look the laws against men, so they make them looks sexist and more evil and twisted.

Look how paranoid TV is about guns, every year there is less gun related crimes.

Muhammad give rights to women, there is many thing to say, but that dont change he let women be free, since in the past they used to be slave.

Many people do everything to make him look bad and Islam look horrible, since there is a wars against the Islamic Culture, since there is a war on terrorism, amazingly the islamic terrorism is 1 % of the terrorism in all the world.

You should make a thread about it.

I made one about sexism against men, then people got mad because i show comic book are sexist against men too.

Then it became a feminist vs men argument, go about the Islam and the third world, only missinformation and misconceptions, then i talk about their ignorance and everybody got mad at me, for telling them to stop all their missinformation and misconceptions.

Also i am sure some one made a thread about all the missconceptions about the Islam.

#87 Edited by Fuchsia_Nightingale (10180 posts) - - Show Bio
#88 Posted by Impy (123 posts) - - Show Bio

DAFUQ????

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

The thing that really scares me of Brave, it was about the female castration and from time to time it looks like the Electra Complex.

Electra Complex is the female version of the Oedipus Complex.

Pixar next movie is going to be about a kid that when becames and adult kills his father and has sex with his mom, that sound very children related material.

Complex castration where the father pretty much make his daugther a son and takes away all the femenine attributes she has, Diana Complex, the daugther of Jupiter, he let her never get married, then give to her bows and arrow and she should only care about hunting and act like a man, or at least that is the complex.

In psychoanalytic theory this is the adoption of what are perceived as masculine traits & behavior in a female.

It can be interpreted psychoanalytically as a deep-seated, repressed desire in a woman to be a man.

Oedipus Complex The Comedy: See the New Pixar Movie Now.

#89 Posted by rogue_mar1e (19833 posts) - - Show Bio

@fuchsia_nightingale: I'm sure you believe that women should have equal opportunity and rights as men. That's all it takes to be a feminist. :)

#90 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5489 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: You really think this should be international news?

#91 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@norrinboltagonprime21:

You really think this attempt at attention has any impact when it lacks substance?

**insert generic gif in an attempt to appear cool but really just trying to hide an inability to contribute to the conversation in any relevant or productive way**

#92 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@fuchsia_nightingale:

There has yet to be a moment in your life where you have NOT been cool. Impossible. Utterly.

The thing that really scares me of Brave, it was about the female castration and from time to time it looks like the Electra Complex.

Electra Complex is the female version of the Oedipus Complex.

Pixar next movie is going to be about a kid that when becames and adult kills his father and has sex with his mom, that sound very children related material.

Complex castration where the father pretty much make his daugther a son and takes away all the femenine attributes she has, Diana Complex, the daugther of Jupiter, he let her never get married, then give to her bows and arrow and she should only care about hunting and act like a man, or at least that is the complex.

In psychoanalytic theory this is the adoption of what are perceived as masculine traits & behavior in a female.

It can be interpreted psychoanalytically as a deep-seated, repressed desire in a woman to be a man.

Oedipus Complex The Comedy: See the New Pixar Movie Now.

@lykopis said:

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

Something i love, people talks about Muslim States and Countries when run out of arguments, then go and talk about other countries, talking of thing they dont know for sure and it could be that actually is just tv and movies missinformation about this cultures or just opinions being seen as facts.

The Islamic world has many rules against women, but it also had many against men, many TV show over look the laws against men, so they make them looks sexist and more evil and twisted.

Look how paranoid TV is about guns, every year there is less gun related crimes.

Muhammad give rights to women, there is many thing to say, but that dont change he let women be free, since in the past they used to be slave.

Many people do everything to make him look bad and Islam look horrible, since there is a wars against the Islamic Culture, since there is a war on terrorism, amazingly the islamic terrorism is 1 % of the terrorism in all the world.

You should make a thread about it.

I made one about sexism against men, then people got mad because i show comic book are sexist against men too.

Then it became a feminist vs men argument, go about the Islam and the third world, only missinformation and misconceptions, then i talk about their ignorance and everybody got mad at me, for telling them to stop all their missinformation and misconceptions.

Also i am sure some one made a thread about all the missconceptions about the Islam.

Completely disagree with your application of any complexes you've brought forward in the context of this movie, but that's at the bottom of my list of questions which would only derail this thread further.

Your opinions of misrepresentation and perceived "wars" against Islam are more than welcome in the Religion thread. I would be more happy to have this discussion there and as for sexism towards men in comics, there are many threads already out there that you can share your thoughts on. This is about Disney and how the company planned on presenting one of its main characters other than how she was depicted in the film she appeared in.

Unless you're serious about the "female castration" of Merida in which case -- you've completely lost me. What exactly are you saying?

#93 Posted by BumpyBoo (7646 posts) - - Show Bio

@impy: Are they trying to say that only lesbians can fight magic bears? If that's true then they should make nice with them, I don't want our nation to fall to magic bear attack just because of some right wingers.

This is one of my fave vine quotes, I think :D

As for the topic: well people if it doesn't matter, let's take Cap's shield away. And Thor's hammer. Less cumbersome that way. Far more room for superfluous accessories.

#94 Posted by ARMIV2 (8279 posts) - - Show Bio

@bumpyboo said:

@joshmightbe said:

@impy: Are they trying to say that only lesbians can fight magic bears? If that's true then they should make nice with them, I don't want our nation to fall to magic bear attack just because of some right wingers.

This is one of my fave vine quotes, I think :D

As for the topic: well people if it doesn't matter, let's take Cap's shield away. And Thor's hammer. Less cumbersome that way. Far more room for superfluous accessories.

Like glitter.

#95 Edited by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

Controversy*

That is all.

#96 Edited by BumpyBoo (7646 posts) - - Show Bio
#97 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@bumpyboo: This is better news than the new human torch role and I agree with that assessment, since nobody wants reality to muck up our beloved fiction. Just like how I hate marvel/dc for putting in 9/11 into the comics to stay 'relevant'.

#98 Edited by BumpyBoo (7646 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx:

I don't know if I could argue that either is "better", I mean some people might see one as being more serious or having more meaning than the other, but really it all adds up to the same thing. It may be worse to some people when companies play around with race or things like that, but as far as I am concerned, bad is bad. And this is definitely bad.

#99 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@bumpyboo:

Better since it is more ingrained with the work, the fiction which people like and bears little with reality. Sometimes they have that kind of issue in Japan in how a work of fiction can drive people to relate with it, where characters can be the source of worship and adoration. I like how this became big news, which gives possibility for America to move in that direction as well. They should keep reality out of fiction, separate them and chop it up.

#100 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Merinda is ia new way to see thing, writting female characters as male characters, James Cameron has said he wrotte all his female character as male, then change everything after he finished the script, there is a reason why many people see Merinda as a lesbian and is because they writte her as a man and then forget to put really strong femenine traits so many dont notice this.

Many female characters today are actually male characters, that is what freack me out, since Disney did this in a kids movie.

Sarah Connor was a male character that by a great rewritting, became a female character.