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#1 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

Well speaking as an atheist and someone who lives without religion,the pope talking about how we can be "saved" is really meaningless since,well it is nothing more than fiction. But then I guess the more important thing is that the pope is not outright condemning people who don't believe in god due to his influence and control over religious people that is something I am glad about.

But I only wish his views on homosexuality where not as extreme and as bigoted as they are.

Though I still do detect some of that religious moral superiority complex coming through,and that atheists are still going to be punished and suffer for ever because we simply acknowledge reason instead of faith,which I still think is a more underline issue in how religious people view non religious people. Though that is to be expected since this is the pope we are talking about here.

#3 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: To be fair, the idea that atheists can be saved has been held since the early years of the Church (I believe they discussed this in the year 200, but don't quote me on that)

And it does make sense. If you treat people well, I don't care if you be the biggest Atheist or the biggest Christian, you deserve to be rewarded.

#4 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Well small as the step might be, at least it's a step forward... At least in comparison to Emperor Pope-patine.

#5 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Well small as the step might be, at least it's a step forward... At least in comparison to Emperor Pope-patine.

I guess in a way it is. But will it really change anything?

#6 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Minimally I guess. You should know by now that I'm quite an optimist. :D

#7 Posted by Tacos_Kickass (844 posts) - - Show Bio

If you deny the existence of god that's apparently like the worst thing you can do and there's no coming back from that, according to the bible. So to say they can be saved is going against the word of god.

#8 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: And I think it's an issue for me cause unlike you, I'm undecided and not really sure whether what they believe is true or not (although to be honest, theism is a wee bit "bleh!" for me). But yeah, if by any chance what they believe is not bollocks and is suddenly true, at least I've got some hope. ;p

#10 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: And I think it's an issue for me cause unlike you, I'm undecided and not really sure whether what they believe is true or not (although to be honest, theism is a wee bit "bleh!" for me). But yeah, if by any chance what they believe is not bollocks and is suddenly true, at least I've got some hope. ;p

Ha ha well I am sure you would still be condemned too right now even if you are undecided.Since that is still not accepting their viewpoint :p

#11 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Nu-uh! I accept some of their viewpoints... Like for example, circumcision is hygienic or the Egyptians are actually real or that the Assyrians really enslaved the Jews or that Jesus really had a beard and the most important thing of all... If you have to eat bread, drink wine with it. So ha! You could say I'm half a Christian... Or a fourth.. Or an eighth... sixteenth... millionth... Whatever. My parents are die-hard Catholics! They can petition me! :D

#12 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

#13 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Nu-uh! I accept some of their viewpoints... Like for example, circumcision is hygienic or the Egyptians are actually real or that the Assyrians really enslaved the Jews or that Jesus really had a beard and the most important thing of all... If you have to eat bread, drink wine with it. So ha! You could say I'm half a Christian... Or a fourth.. Or an eighth... sixteenth... millionth... Whatever. My parents are die-hard Catholics! They can petition me! :D

Oh you are right well if I start drinking wine every time I eat bread It will ensure I am saved if such a place did exist.

So all I have to do is become dependent on red wine oh wow you are such a genius thanks for the revelation!

#14 Edited by Kal'smahboi (3503 posts) - - Show Bio

Sweet. A way in to Heaven without all the hubbub of church and sacrifice and all that.

#15 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha ha so true.They have alot more to answer for because they have actually done wrong and harm and all in the name of their religion too.

#16 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

Ha ha so true.They have alot more to answer for because they have actually done wrong and harm and all in the name of their religion too.

Bullsh*t! Unless he truly repents and accept Hitchens' sacrifice as an act of saving mankind from sin, he still will not be forgiven.

#17 Posted by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio

*shrugs*

#18 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll put it like this: I'll continue to live my life under my own personal values, morals, and decision-making skills on tolerance and social acceptance, and the Catholic church can "pray for me".

#22 Posted by Illuminatus (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't surprise me if he himself was/is an atheist.

#23 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't surprise me if he himself was/is an atheist.

How come?

#24 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@illuminatus said:

Wouldn't surprise me if he himself was/is an atheist.

How come?

A lot of pastors are closeted atheists.

They are? Its sad really that they have to lie to themselves like that.I mean I have heard people not wanting to tell their family they are atheists but not religious leaders. Thought never occurred to me before really.

#26 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Some (not all) only keep the faced because of the benefits of being a man of the cloth. For example, the chance to pursue their studies in premier Catholic schools. For example, Vatican has one of the best astrophysical observatories in the world... And I may be wrong but I think one of the pioneers of the Big Bang Theory and Expanding Universe Theory was a Catholic priest. Lemaitre I think. Whether or not he's a closeted atheist, agnostic, deist, etc. I don't know. But look at his contribution to research because of the resources given him by staying a priest.

#27 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope he is still firm in his old stances, it makes more entertaining news that way

#28 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: Some (not all) only keep the faced because of the benefits of being a man of the cloth. For example, the chance to pursue their studies in premier Catholic schools. For example, Vatican has one of the best astrophysical observatories in the world... And I may be wrong but I think one of the pioneers of the Big Bang Theory and Expanding Universe Theory was a Catholic priest. Lemaitre I think. Whether or not he's a closeted atheist, agnostic, deist, etc. I don't know. But look at his contribution to research because of the resources given him by staying a priest.

I see,I find it quite ironic really.

#29 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by lykopis (10753 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Some (not all) only keep the faced because of the benefits of being a man of the cloth. For example, the chance to pursue their studies in premier Catholic schools. For example, Vatican has one of the best astrophysical observatories in the world... And I may be wrong but I think one of the pioneers of the Big Bang Theory and Expanding Universe Theory was a Catholic priest. Lemaitre I think. Whether or not he's a closeted atheist, agnostic, deist, etc. I don't know. But look at his contribution to research because of the resources given him by staying a priest.

I agree with this. Add also the old tradition of sending one child to be a priest and/or young girls to the nunnery -- the possibility a few were atheists is there. I think perhaps getting "close" so to speak makes it even more easier to realize there is no such thing as a god.

I've had a conversation recently about this - somewhat - and it's those who know there is no god and yet practice and preach it to others I find especially abhorrent.

I too believe the Pope is atheist.

#32 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32993 posts) - - Show Bio

“God saves - but not now, and not here. His salvation is on layaway. Like all grifters, He asks you to pay now and take it on faith that you will receive later. Whereas women offer a different sort of salvation, more immediate and fulfilling. They don't put off their love for a distant, ill-defined eternity but make a gift of it in the here and now, frequently to those who deserve it least. So it was in my case. So it is for many. The devil and woman have been allies against God from the beginning...

“He paused, twisting his goatee, considering the law in Deuteronomy that forbade clothes with mixed fibers. A problematic bit of Scripture. A matter that required thought. "Only the devil wants man to have a wide range of lightweight and comfortable styles to choose from," he murmured at last, trying out a new proverb. "Although there may be no forgiveness for polyester. On this one matter, Satan and the Lord are in agreement.”

Amen

#33 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Some (not all) only keep the faced because of the benefits of being a man of the cloth. For example, the chance to pursue their studies in premier Catholic schools. For example, Vatican has one of the best astrophysical observatories in the world... And I may be wrong but I think one of the pioneers of the Big Bang Theory and Expanding Universe Theory was a Catholic priest. Lemaitre I think. Whether or not he's a closeted atheist, agnostic, deist, etc. I don't know. But look at his contribution to research because of the resources given him by staying a priest.

I agree with this. Add also the old tradition of sending one child to be a priest and/or young girls to the nunnery -- the possibility a few were atheists is there. I think perhaps getting "close" so to speak makes it even more easier to realize there is no such thing as a god.

I've had a conversation recently about this - somewhat - and it's those who know there is no god and yet practice and preach it to others I find especially abhorrent.

I too believe the Pope is atheist.

Absolutely I find it a little hard to understand if the pope is an atheist why he doesn't just come out about it.

If he is a closeted atheist then Id be really interested to know what goes on inside his head and how he manages to keep living a lie.I know there are the benefits as mentioned above but speaking for myself I could never ever bring myself to become religious or even try to convince others I was something that I actually wasn't. Especially when it has something to do with something like religion that I do have strong opinions about.Every fiber of my being would be screaming out at me to say how I feel and think about it,how I am.

But then maybe its also the pressure the catholic church has placed and its heavy discrimination that maybe the pope is frightened (?) about saying how he feels,since I imagine he would get a lot of backlash from people but then I think the most important thing is no matter what is being true to yourself and to others,heh where is that bit of "christian honesty" in this instance,eh?

#34 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone on here talks about the discrimination Atheist receive but I don't see it. I am sure that you would be more knowledgeable in the matter so can some of you give examples of you being discriminated against? I feel like it is the opposite, and that religious people are being discriminated against today in most 1st world countries.

I mean how many atheist have been killed in the world (because of their believes) compared to Christians killed everyday for theirs?

#35 Edited by lykopis (10753 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Some (not all) only keep the faced because of the benefits of being a man of the cloth. For example, the chance to pursue their studies in premier Catholic schools. For example, Vatican has one of the best astrophysical observatories in the world... And I may be wrong but I think one of the pioneers of the Big Bang Theory and Expanding Universe Theory was a Catholic priest. Lemaitre I think. Whether or not he's a closeted atheist, agnostic, deist, etc. I don't know. But look at his contribution to research because of the resources given him by staying a priest.

I agree with this. Add also the old tradition of sending one child to be a priest and/or young girls to the nunnery -- the possibility a few were atheists is there. I think perhaps getting "close" so to speak makes it even more easier to realize there is no such thing as a god.

I've had a conversation recently about this - somewhat - and it's those who know there is no god and yet practice and preach it to others I find especially abhorrent.

I too believe the Pope is atheist.

Absolutely I find it a little hard to understand if the pope is an atheist why he doesn't just come out about it.

If he is a closeted atheist then Id be really interested to know what goes on inside his head and how he manages to keep living a lie.I know there are the benefits as mentioned above but speaking for myself I could never ever bring myself to become religious or even try to convince others I was something that I actually wasn't. Especially when it has something to do with something like religion that I do have strong opinions about.Every fiber of my being would be screaming out at me to say how I feel and think about it,how I am.

But then maybe its also the pressure the catholic church has placed and its heavy discrimination that maybe the pope is frightened (?) about saying how he feels,since I imagine he would get a lot of backlash from people but then I think the most important thing is no matter what is being true to yourself and to others,heh where is that bit of "christian honesty" in this instance,eh?

Oh yes and plus -- it's a posh job. You get to have a lot of people kowtowing to you and it's not as if other popes haven't lived openly with mistresses and the like. It's power I suppose, much like how others might be on the pulpit and yet except donations from their followers. There's a congregation here that has a high amount of low-income worshipers and yet they hand over money to a family that has several mansions and luxury cars and boats, etc. When questioned, they defended their pastor since it's only right they reward him with earthly pleasures. He is a man of God.

So yeah. Money talks.

#36 Posted by lykopis (10753 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone on here talks about the discrimination Atheist receive but I don't see it. I am sure that you would be more knowledgeable in the matter so can some of you give examples of you being discriminated against? I feel like it is the opposite, and that religious people are being discriminated against today in most 1st world countries.

I mean how many atheist have been killed in the world (because of their believes) compared to Christians killed everyday for theirs?

Depends on what you consider a first world country?

#37 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@lykopis said:

@ssejllenrad said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Some (not all) only keep the faced because of the benefits of being a man of the cloth. For example, the chance to pursue their studies in premier Catholic schools. For example, Vatican has one of the best astrophysical observatories in the world... And I may be wrong but I think one of the pioneers of the Big Bang Theory and Expanding Universe Theory was a Catholic priest. Lemaitre I think. Whether or not he's a closeted atheist, agnostic, deist, etc. I don't know. But look at his contribution to research because of the resources given him by staying a priest.

I agree with this. Add also the old tradition of sending one child to be a priest and/or young girls to the nunnery -- the possibility a few were atheists is there. I think perhaps getting "close" so to speak makes it even more easier to realize there is no such thing as a god.

I've had a conversation recently about this - somewhat - and it's those who know there is no god and yet practice and preach it to others I find especially abhorrent.

I too believe the Pope is atheist.

Absolutely I find it a little hard to understand if the pope is an atheist why he doesn't just come out about it.

If he is a closeted atheist then Id be really interested to know what goes on inside his head and how he manages to keep living a lie.I know there are the benefits as mentioned above but speaking for myself I could never ever bring myself to become religious or even try to convince others I was something that I actually wasn't. Especially when it has something to do with something like religion that I do have strong opinions about.Every fiber of my being would be screaming out at me to say how I feel and think about it,how I am.

But then maybe its also the pressure the catholic church has placed and its heavy discrimination that maybe the pope is frightened (?) about saying how he feels,since I imagine he would get a lot of backlash from people but then I think the most important thing is no matter what is being true to yourself and to others,heh where is that bit of "christian honesty" in this instance,eh?

Oh yes and plus -- it's a posh job. You get to have a lot of people kowtowing to you and it's not as if other popes haven't lived openly with mistresses and the like. It's power I suppose, much like how others might be on the pulpit and yet except donations from their followers. There's a congregation here that has a high amount of low-income worshipers and yet they hand over money to a family that has several mansions and luxury cars and boats, etc. When questioned, they defended their pastor since it's only right they reward him with earthly pleasures. He is a man of God.

So yeah. Money talks.

Yeah true that is a pretty sad case,but its another case of the richer getting richer and the poor getting poorer I guess.

Everyone on here talks about the discrimination Atheist receive but I don't see it. I am sure that you would be more knowledgeable in the matter so can some of you give examples of you being discriminated against? I feel like it is the opposite, and that religious people are being discriminated against today in most 1st world countries.

I mean how many atheist have been killed in the world (because of their believes) compared to Christians killed everyday for theirs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists

I can find more links if you wish.

Atheists are a minority and like any minority have had a fair amount of discrimination.

#38 Posted by lykopis (10753 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader:

I find it confusing how people are unaware that in the United States, there is a majority of people who lop atheists with rapists.

"In a June 2011 Pew Research poll, 33 percent of respondents said they would be less likely to vote for a candidate who was gay. For atheist candidates, that number jumped to 61 percent. A Gallup Poll the same month found that only 49 percent of voters would back a “well-qualified” presidential candidate who was an atheist. The next lowest vote percentage went to a gay candidate, for whom 67 percent would consider voting.

And a study reported last December (2011) in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found that only 33 percent of respondents would hire atheists as day care workers, but 65 percent would hire them as waitresses."

(source)

It's mostly in the bible belt where outright discrimination and intimidating behaviour runs free against atheists but it's not unheard of elsewhere.

#39 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7709 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the new pope is a great man, from what I read and seen.

#40 Posted by consolemaster001 (5140 posts) - - Show Bio

Different strokes for different folks

Well speaking as an atheist and someone who lives without religion,the pope talking about how we can be "saved" is really meaningless since,well it is nothing more than fiction.

#41 Posted by pooty (11011 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: To be fair, the idea that atheists can be saved has been held since the early years of the Church (I believe they discussed this in the year 200, but don't quote me on that)

And it does make sense. If you treat people well, I don't care if you be the biggest Atheist or the biggest Christian, you deserve to be rewarded.

The idea that atheist can be saved may be taught by the church and this pope but it is NOT taught anywhere in the Bible. Salvation in the Bible is through belief/faith and by how you act. If you only do one, the Bible says you will not be saved.

#42 Posted by pooty (11011 posts) - - Show Bio

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate healthy doctrine, but with itching ears will surround themselves with teachers who cater to their people's own desires

This is what the Pope is doing. Because of all the scandals. Diminishing memberships etc. The Pope is saying what people WANT to hear. Instead of teaching the strict doctrines of the Bible he is watering down the message of the Bible and catering to the masses.

#43 Posted by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: To be fair, the idea that atheists can be saved has been held since the early years of the Church (I believe they discussed this in the year 200, but don't quote me on that)

And it does make sense. If you treat people well, I don't care if you be the biggest Atheist or the biggest Christian, you deserve to be rewarded.

Well put, and agreed!

#44 Posted by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: The discrimination against atheist in the modern era on is few and far between. Even when it mentions before the modern era it only gives few cases of discrimination. I think I require more links from you on the subject. Atheist say that they have been discriminated against which is undoubtedly true, but the amount of discrimination pales in comparison to Christians (or most other religions). This is in no way condoning of persecution of atheist but the way it feels in some atheist posts is that all religious people do is persecute and that religious people have it easy (not yours).

Of course Atheist numbers are nowhere near as large as religious and this could directly influence the number of cases in previous ages but the number of Christians being persecuted is still much larger than atheist being persecuted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

#45 Posted by Superguy0009e (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: In my opinion, not all of the answers are found in the Bible. It is dated in some parts, but I think that my Church still follows the dated parts on the heart of the matter.

It really comes down to a strict or loose interpretation of the Bible. While I may be more loose, it seems that you take a more literal approach.

In the end, none of us really know what will occur. I have faith I am right, and so do you.

#46 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (17816 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader: The discrimination against atheist in the modern era on is few and far between. Even when it mentions before the modern era it only gives few cases of discrimination. I think I require more links from you on the subject. Atheist say that they have been discriminated against which is undoubtedly true, but the amount of discrimination pales in comparison to Christians (or most other religions). This is in no way condoning of persecution of atheist but the way it feels in some atheist posts is that all religious people do is persecute and that religious people have it easy (not yours).

Of course Atheist numbers are nowhere near as large as religious and this could directly influence the number of cases in previous ages but the number of Christians being persecuted is still much larger than atheist being persecuted

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians

No I assure you its not just a few and far in between its more than that.Even in the link I provided it speaks about how you cannot enter public office unless you claim to believe in a deity,there are many cases where people are disowned by their family simply because they are an atheist,the thinking atheist has made alot of videos showing that this happens. And the fact that they are made to feel inferior we constantly get labeled as immoral, and as evil. It really goes on in the US alot not really in the UK where I live.But it does happen and it happens in spades.

Most places where christians are discriminated against are dictatorships where they pretty much discriminate against everyone,including atheists as well,places such as Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia just to name a few.

There are seven countries in the world where you can be executed simply for being an atheist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/10/the-seven-countries-where-the-state-can-execute-you-for-being-atheist/

Oh and then there is this that lykopis has posted. I have another link about it here.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm

@lykopis said:

@mrdecepticonleader:

I find it confusing how people are unaware that in the United States, there is a majority of people who lop atheists with rapists.

"In a June 2011 Pew Research poll, 33 percent of respondents said they would be less likely to vote for a candidate who was gay. For atheist candidates, that number jumped to 61 percent. A Gallup Poll the same month found that only 49 percent of voters would back a “well-qualified” presidential candidate who was an atheist. The next lowest vote percentage went to a gay candidate, for whom 67 percent would consider voting.

And a study reported last December (2011) in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found that only 33 percent of respondents would hire atheists as day care workers, but 65 percent would hire them as waitresses."

(source)

It's mostly in the bible belt where outright discrimination and intimidating behaviour runs free against atheists but it's not unheard of elsewhere.

I mean the fact that is the case is while not really surprising it hurts me,simply because I am one of the godless. But as the rally of people rightfully chanted out "We’re here! We’re godless! Get used to it!”. Damn right we are.

Different strokes for different folks

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well speaking as an atheist and someone who lives without religion,the pope talking about how we can be "saved" is really meaningless since,well it is nothing more than fiction.

I am a little confused are you saying different strokes for different folks then using my quote as an example? Or are you telling me that since I dismiss religion as nothing more than myths?

Please clarify.

#47 Posted by pooty (11011 posts) - - Show Bio

@superguy0009e: If you treat people well, I don't care if you be the biggest Atheist or the biggest Christian, you deserve to be rewarded.

The pope said there is hope for atheist. You said that if you treat people well you should be rewarded even if you are an atheist. I understand different interpretations, but the Bible seems very clear about the relationship between faith and salvation. What scriptures are you using to back up your beliefs?

#48 Posted by Bogey (944 posts) - - Show Bio

That's nice of the pope. Maybe atheist will not be as hard on him due to his church molesting all those altar boys.

#49 Edited by VercingetorixTheGreat (2823 posts) - - Show Bio


No I assure you its not just a few and far in between its more than that.Even in the link I provided it speaks about how you cannot enter public office unless you claim to believe in a deity,there are many cases where people are disowned by their family simply because they are an atheist,the thinking atheist has made alot of videos showing that this happens. And the fact that they are made to feel inferior we constantly get labeled as immoral, and as evil. It really goes on in the US alot not really in the UK where I live.But it does happen and it happens in spades.

Most places where christians are discriminated against are dictatorships where they pretty much discriminate against everyone,including atheists as well,places such as Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia just to name a few.

There are seven countries in the world where you can be executed simply for being an atheist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/10/the-seven-countries-where-the-state-can-execute-you-for-being-atheist/

Oh and then there is this that lykopis has posted. I have another link about it here.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/AtheitsHated.htm

Ok thank you for the links. I think we can all agree the problem for discrimination isn't atheism or religion it is human nature. Also just to clear this up none of those states actually enforce that rule (and it is a terrible rule). What I hate is how if your a politician and you announce your atheism it is considered "Political Suicide". Most of that is based off ignorance and I am sure it will end soon (progress always moves forward). Also the countries where Atheist are killed is also some of the worst for Christians. The map is much larger though for Christians and Christian killings are much more common; however that is a mute point because ALL PERSECUTION IS EVIL. I feel like we are trying to compete for who is more hated and that is silly. Like I said earlier all persecution should stop.

http://www.christianfreedom.org/persecuted-christians-map/

http://www.persecution.org/awareness/persecuted-countries/