Picture Of Trayvon Martin At The Scene of The Event

@batman242: The thing with these cases are people only see one side of the story and believe that to be true

i always heard that there are 3 sides of a story. my version. your version. and somewhere in the middle is the truth. I feel zimmerman lied to make himself look like the victim. But that can't be proved.

But then see, what are you gonna do if someone comes at you?

When I was 17, i felt just like trayvon....invincible. now, i hope i will walk away... i hope

What would you do?

@awesam: @pooty: Okay, pooty, you're argument (that I was blind to) makes sense. I can agree that it wasn't about race. But can I argue that Zimmerman was stupid, irresponsible and foolish? Yes. He should go to jail for that.
This is a man who after all has a track record of being in court.

No one is denying the existence of racism, racial profiling or discrimination. We're just saying there's no evidence Zimmerman's actions were racially motivated, so it's unfair and unjust to assume he was a racist.

This.

/thread

Me? I'm 18. But I don't feel invincible. I try to learn from others' mistakes. And this is a mistake I'll learn from.

But at the same time, what could've Trayvon possibly do? George already had a gun. Whether he stayed (and was maybe defending himself), or run, he would've gotten shot.

@batman242: He made a mistake, but is guilty of nothing. Trayvon has more skeletons in his closet.

Martin was gone, Zimmerman had already lost sight of him and was returning to his vehicle. Martin then caught up with Zimmerman and attacked him.

@batman242: But can I argue that Zimmerman was stupid, irresponsible and foolish?

There is no argument. You are completely right.

Yes. He should go to jail for that.

I agree with that too. I would love for him to do 3 yrs just for being an a$$hole. But what would we charge him with?

@biteme_fanboy: How was he 'suspicious'? He was a normal guy holding some snacks.

And I'm pretty sure the 'It's his job' argument becomes moot when he's told specifically by the police to stop.

We don't even know what actually happened that day, only 2 people were there, one of them is dead and the other was trying to do everything he could to keep himself out of jail.

What we know for sure is; a man with a history of physical violence was following an innocent boy with no reason to suspect he was guilty of any crime, while the man was obviously looking for an altercation, and when he got it he immediately pulled out a gun and shot the boy.

And then you think that the man was racist, and his family was racist, and then you think that the boy was black, and then it all comes together.

@awesam:

I didn't say anything on the matter until this.

Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer

He was charged with domestic violence by abusing his girlfriend

And his cousin accused him for molesting her for more than a decade

I think the skeletons are about even if not more on Zimmerman's side

@pooty: being that irresponsible should be a crime. It could be considered manslaughter. He shouldn't even have a gun because of all the other trials (although he was innocent) and especially after this case shouldn't own one.

What does that have anything to do with the case at hand? Zimmerman is obviously guilty. Trayvon wasn't armed and presumably only defending himself because someone was following (in his eyes stalking) him.

Another side of it. Hadn't Zimmerman gone to his car to get his gun, nonetheless?

@cameron83

Perhaps he would,perhaps he wouldn't have...I don't really know much on Zimmerman...I have to read up more on the case...

No he would have. That much is a FACT confirmed by Zimmerman's attorney's themselves. Yet people continue to remain blind by the fact that this whole event was caused by race; the fact that he had profiled Trayvon as a possible suspect merely because of the color of his skin.

And surely we cannot deny that the presumption of criminality was dependent on this dead child’s race can we? Before you answer, please note that even the defense did not deny this.Indeed, Zimmerman’s attorneys acknowledged in court that their client’s concerns about Martin were connected directly to the fact that previous break-ins in the neighborhood had been committed by young black males.

Link

Your post is stupid. Sorry. I don't usually say that to another user, but I had to this time.

How do you know he is racist?

How do you know Trayvon is innocent 100%. (weed, gun, beating up bus driver) He wasn't some innocent kid. I'm not saying he was committing a crime that night, but you just basically labeled Zimmerman as a violent criminal, and Trayvon as a saint.

Apartment complex has been complaining about break ins.

Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch.

Maybe he just had a hunch, I don't know, I wasn't there, so he decided to follow him, doing his DUTY.

Yes, he followed Trayvon when told not to, yes that's a mistake. He lost sight of Trayvon, so he returned to his car. Trayvon should have went STRAIGHT HOME and called the police, just as Zimmerman did.

Trayvon approaches Zimmerman, a fight starts. Zimmerman gets his ass whooped, fears for his life, shoots Trayvon.

That's basically ALL we know. All WE know.

So how is Zimmerman an all out evil racist man? The only thing I can see race being involved in this case is Zimmerman automatically thinking Trayvon is up to no good because he is black. But even if he DID think that, HOW, tell me, HOW does that prove THATS why he shot Trayvon. He didn't see a random black kid walking through his neighborhood and immediantly shoot him because he was black. He shot him because Trayvon was beating the hell out him.

Yes, Zimmerman shouldn't have followed him, just as Trayvon shouldn't have approached him. Trayvon beating the hell out of Zimmerman was the reason Zimmerman shot him. He said he feared for his life, and judging from the photos I don't blame him.

Maybe it needs to be said again. Because clearly, people are unaware of the facts.

Zimmerman’s attorneys acknowledged in court that their client’s concerns about Martin were connected directly to the fact that previous break-ins in the neighborhood had been committed by young black males.

How is this not about race again? It is the main reason why zimmerman thought he was suspicious in the first place. If he were white, he WOULD NOT have been a suspect, and WOULD NOT have pursued a white 17yr old kid. This is based on Zimmerman's attorney's comments THEMSELVES. Comments based on talking to GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.

I apologize for the caps, and I hate using them. But I feel regular text just isn't making things clear enough.

@batman242: Trayvon has a history of school fights. It's safe to assume he's a fairly violent person. Obviously not since all evidence points to Zimmerman as the victim.

@pfcoolio14: What's your source?

@batman242:

He shouldn't even have a gun because of all the other trials (although he was innocent)

So he should lose his right to bear arms because he has been innocent too many times? That defies the very meaning of the word 'innocent'

Another side of it. Hadn't Zimmerman gone to his car to get his gun, nonetheless?

Zimmerman was carrying his firearm the entire time.

Yes. But the case isn't about Zimmerman following Trayvon. The case was about Zimmerman shooting him. Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon because he was black. He shot him because Trayvon was beating his ass.

Zimmerman probably wouldn't have followed a white kid randomly walking in the area, because the break ins reported didn't say young white males were breaking into peoples homes. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch. Break ins by young black males were being reported. He saw a young black male walking through the dark, he decided to see what he was up to. I would have probably done the same thing. The only thing Zimmerman did that was stupid was follow him when the cops said not to. But that doesn't mean Trayvon was without fault. Zimmerman returned to his car after losing sight of Trayvon, then Trayvon approached him (when he should have went home and called the police). That's when the fight started.

Yes, this case is about race. But It has nothing to do on why Zimmerman decided to shoot Trayvon.

Zimmerman was charged on assaulting a police officer, he also was the one with the gun. He's also trained.

They also said he abused his girlfriend and that his mother was racist (although that doesn't matter).

What you said doesn't dismiss that Trayvon saw that he was being followed (stalked)

Let's pretend he followed him because of his color. Is that a crime? Is racial profiling a crime? Was he on trial for racial profiling? Was he on trial for being a racist? Then why bring it up?

@pooty: People trying to say the reason Zimmerman shot Trayvon was because he was black. Which is stupid.

@biteme_fanboy:

"Apartment complex has been complaining about break ins.

Zimmerman is a neighborhood watch.

Maybe he just had a hunch, I don't know, I wasn't there, so he decided to follow him, doing his DUTY."

And this is what baffles me. People who take your stance come aaaaaaall the way but stop JUST SHORT of stating the fact that he pursued him because someone had identified other burglars as young blackmales.

You know the answer but you just don't want to say it for some reason. It wasn't a hunch, you do know, and you don't need to have been there to know this.

He decided to follow him for one reason and one reason only : Because he was a young black male.

And that's where the problem lies.

@novi_homines: Look at my earlier post directed towards you.

1. It's not pretending. It's a fact.

2. If him racially profiling someone resulted in a 17 yr old kid being dead, it DESERVES to be brought up.

I know, I missed it.

@awesam:

The news and watching the trial. The first two things are common knowledge but if you want proof his cousin was interviewed on the matter

The Huffington post covered it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html

His entire bad past is covered here by the Washington post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/28/george-zimmermans-relevant-past/

He's not innocent. The cousin, who was also a witness in the case claimed that he and his mom were racist and that he was a very confrontational person. Her words, not mine.

"All we know is that Zimmerman saw Martin and concluded that he was just like those other criminals. And to the extent there was nothing in Martin’s actions — talking on the telephone and walking slowly home from the store — that would have indicated he was another of those “fucking punks,” the only possible explanation as to why George Zimmerman would have seen him that way is because Martin, as a young black male was presumed to be a likely criminal, and for no other reason, ultimately, but color.

Which is to say, Trayvon Martin is dead because he is black and because George Zimmerman can’t differentiate — and didn’t see the need to — between criminal and non-criminal black people. Which is to say, George Zimmerman is a racist.

Because if you cannot differentiate between black criminals and just plain kids, and don’t even see the need to try, apparently, you are a racist. I don’t care what your Peruvian mother says, or her white husband who married the Peruvian mother, or your brother, or your black friends, or the black girl you took to prom, or the black kids you mentored. If you see a black child and assume “criminal,” despite no behavioral evidence at all to suggest such a conclusion, you are a racist. No exceptions. That goes for George Zimmerman and for anyone reading this."

Tim Wise

@novi_homines: If him racially profiling someone resulted in a 17 yr old kid being dead, it DESERVES to be brought up.

Then doesn't Trayvon repeatedly calling him a "crazy CRACKER" need to be brought up? If zimmerman was black maybe trayvon would have reacted differently. Maybe travon wouldn't have noticed him if he was black. racial profiling didn't lead to his death. attacking someone did.

and i just googled what the lawyers said and couldn't find that they admitted that zimmerman was racially profiling. could you provide your proof? this is what I came up with:

Punks,” he said, adding an expletive. “They always get away.” There were unsolved burglaries in his community, and as he said in a call he made to the police, “this guy looks like he’s up to no good.

@batman242: Not stalked, just followed. Not unlawful, sorry.

@pfcoolio14: Not proven. He is innocent.

And that's the main problem. Why did he think he was up to no good? I'll answer it for you -BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK, as the other suspects were too. Because that's all that remains.

The only reason he suspected him and called the police on a random black guy walking on the street at night in his own neighborhood, was BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK. I don't know why people don't want to say it. Say it with me everyone: He suspected him BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK.

And that, my friends, is the reason why he is racist. Because if you don't know that there's a difference between a black skinned criminal, and black human beings in general, then you. are. racist.

@awesam:

Whatever you wanna believe. Just hope you read the article closely enough to see what his cousin thought of him and the things his cousin, who was a witness in the case, claimed he did.

When I say stalked and in brackets, I meant from Trayvon's perspective.

@pfcoolio14: zimmermans skeletons were hidden during the whole trial, while trayvon petty mistakes and hobbies were to die for.

Nothing. Absolutely Nothing in that call says anything about race. Many criminals cover their face right? didn't travon have something that was covering his face? Also Zimmerman didn't recognize him. So he could have suspected him because he was a stranger wearing something that concealed his face. Or does that make no sense at all?

@lady_liberty: Yea, I know what I'm saying sounds stupid, but the fact that he was possibly guilty of all those things, I'm just saying, it's my personal opinion he shouldn't have a gun.

@batman242: @pfcoolio14: That's not how the law works, guys.

Of course nothing in the call says anything about race.

You honestly think him saying: "i'm calling the police on this black guy, because he's black, and he fits the color description of the burglars." would result in anything other than him being in jail right now? The dispatch would've told the police officers to arrest Zimmerman for harassing a random black guy walking on the street.

Trayvon had NOTHING covering his face. He had on a hoodie because it was raining! And what does him recognizing him have to do with anything? Everyone doesn't know everyone in the community. That doesn't warrant an automatic call to the police. And Trayvon LIVED in the neighborhood on and off, for YEARS. Many residents on record have said he would visit his father, and has done so for years.

So no, none of that makes any sense at all.

@novi_homines: a hoodie conceals your face from different angles. MANY MANY robbers wear hoodies. Nevertheless, it is your opinion that he was racially profiling. i say he wasn't. but you said that Zimmermans lawyers said he was profiling. Do you have a link to those statements?

Many people also wear hoods when its raining.....to you know......cover their head......from the rain.....

.............................................................................................................................................................................

I actually......don't think its uncommon.......to see people covering their head with jackets......in the rain.....

Oh and for those still thinking this has nothing to do with race, don't forget that when the police got on the scene of the crime, they didn't do a toxicology or background check on Zimmerman.

Hahaha, oh NO. Instead, they decided to do a toxicology AND a background check on the BLACK KID LYING DEAD ON THE GROUND! Not on the guy who SHOT AND KILLED SOMEONE. And also don't forget that they did not arrest him for 44 DAYS. He shot someone, and wasn't even INVESTIGATED by the cops when they got there. At all.

So let's recount:

-Zimmerman suspected Trayvon because he was black.

-Called the police on him because he was black

-And pursued him because he was black.

-When the cops got there, probably his friends/ associates (since he's on the neighborhood watch), decided NOT TO perform a toxicology OR a background check on the man who shot and killed someone.

-Instead, they did BOTH a toxicology on the black kid lying dead on the ground, and a background check on the black kid lying dead on the ground.

Oh but no, this is not about race!

I'm at a lost for words with his comment.

*sigh* There's no hope. Some will believe what they want.

@awesam:

I never said it was. You said only Trayvon had skeletons. I pointed out Zimmermans. Two of which were under court. Another claimed by a close family member.

Couldn't he have seen his hands?

I'm done. In the court of law, in this case, it was difficult (damn near IMPOSSIBLE) to prove Zimmerman was guilty given the prosecution decided to NOT use the race card from the very beginning. Probably because the jury consisted of 5 white women, and 1 hispanic male (which is an issue and debate for another time). And they did so probably to not make the nearly all white jury, feel uncomfortable, and defensive, in the throwing around of racial arguments. Which could work against the prosecution. But by doing so, they gave away their greatest ally in the case. And as a result they lost.

Again, I will post this video for those who still prefer ignorance, and to be blind. It takes both sides into account. And looks at the case from a realistic point of view.

Who cares what this kid looked like the night of. The black and white picture of him was taken when he was 13 and was doctored up to make him look more innocent. The fact that he was constantly suspended from school, a drug dealer, and that he's the one who attacked Zimmerman shows what kind of person trayvon was. Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood watch which means it was HIS job to look for suspicious activity. Trayvon was running all over the place like some hooded clown. Zimmerman was merely getting an address for the police and it is not illegal to follow someone. The person on the phone with trayvon testified that trayvon confronted/attacked Zimmerman.

Why don't you racist douchebags separate truth from lies? Oh you can't because you listen to everything the liberal media and Obama tell you. The kid was banging Zimmerman's head into the ground and trying to kill him and then he got shot dead. Self defense end of story. Maybe Zimmerman should have let the police handle it but he still didn't commit any crime nor did he attack the kid.

Wow. Pretty heated here.

True. but Zimmerman misunderstood why he was wearing the hoodie. That's not racial profiling. that's just dumb.

Yes. i'm saying if a hispanic or white kid were in the same situation, same age, wearing the same clothes, zimmerman would have done the same thing. Remember he has called the police on white people also. He even fought a white cop? Did you know that?

While I can see where you're coming from,and I can understand your points (I've been following up on the whole debate),I don't really like that 5 white judge thing.

It's like assuming that any white person,or any white judge will automatically side with a white person. Or that any black person will automatically side with a black person....and when in the court,where you're not supposed to be biased...

I mean,I can understand ALL of your points and such,but I just hate that argument,it's even contrary to things like peace and unity and such...anyway,still going through the comments :P (I read from the latest post to the earliest point)...

That was my only issue. Good points...

Will people stop posting about this? One thread is enough. I'm not saying it's not a tragedy, I'm not minimizing it, but one thread is enough.

No, what's dumb is you asserting what Zimmerman understood or didn't, and then asserting that he didn't understand something that's obvious common sense.

Its not like like Zimmerman said he looked suspicious because he was wearing a hoodie. In the call, the 911 operator asks what he's wearing and then he says Trayvon's wearing a hoodie. He also acknowledges that its raining at the very beginning of the call--so clearly he's aware its raining, and didnt specifically describe Trayvon as suspicious initially because he's in a hoodie, for that very reason.

To be fair, he also mentions that Trayvon is black only after the 911 operator asks him about his race. But, unlike the with the hoodie, he mentions it again later in the call unprompted when he's directly describing suspicious behavior "Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band. And he’s a black male"

Reread that three times till it sticks Pooty. Then read it one more time.

So let me reiterate--you would rather us believe that Zimmerman was stupidly unable to understand basic common sense that people wear jackets and hoodies that cover their head when its raining AND that thats why he thought Trayvon looked suspicious despite only mentioning this fact when once when asked for a description of what he was wearing-------instead of simply admitting that part of the reason he thought he was suspicious was because Trayvon was black, which is a fact he reiterates unprompted randomly when also describing what can be conceived as suspicious behavior?

I don't want to see another delusional post from you in this thread Pooty. Just stop with the nonsense.

On top of that, let's not ignore the obvious hole in your bigoted, deny the reality of race argument accept the idea of forgetting the purpose of hoodies: Zimmerman straight up says "fucking coons" under his breath during the 911 call. Its on the transcript here(though, not like thats official or anything): http://phoebe53.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/zimmerman-911-call-transcript-trayvon-martin/

You can hear it for yourself here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk 1:52

This isn't up for debate.

Dont try to reason with anyone here... this thread went off the rails long ago. Now it's just a bunch of people calling each other "racist douchebags" and stuff like that. Best to just ignore these people and let them all argue until they tire themselves out.