@cable_extreme: and see my friend that is part of the philosophy I feel that has blinded the police force...we make sure it us first...then the people we serve and protect...its almost like saying us first then justice....the people I protect and serve...is what matter to me most...believe me I will die for my partners and fellow law enforcement agents but I will do everything in my power to make sure the safety and well being of every man...and I honestly I feel that an officer has more of an obligation to ensure the safety and lives of the citizens then anybody...that's what they pay him for...to lay his safety and life on the line...for those with less strength to do so....
@myerlanski: he does risk his life, but when someone threatens their safety, they do every proactive and preventative measure to insure their safety. This is my view.
Never thought I would ever say "in before the lock", once I saw someone say that people think blacks are above the law (I'm paraphrasing), I just shook my head
@cable_extreme: I know bro...and thanks for the constructive debate...you're cool...and I'm happy to know...whatever you law enforcement that you get into...that you will be there protecting lives...just watch the choke holds lol...joking...great times discussing with you my friend....
People are seeing the small picture. This is just a more recent event on a long rise of increasing police brutality. SWAT teams are being called in more and more for minor incidents. It's because these towns in the middle of nowhere get all this antiterrorism money/resources, then itch for a way to use them. Seriously, police departments are getting GRENADE LAUNCHERS AND APCs. You can't have all this sh*t and just leave it sitting there! So when the biggest thing that happens is some teenager gets caught with an ounce of weed or something, they make it a BIG thing. When some dude is just walking on the street "selling illegal cigarettes", it becomes a BIG thing. In April, a SWAT team badly burned a toddler when they dropped a flash grenade into his crib while searching for a relative they thought might be carrying drugs. And in 2010, a SWAT team shot and killed a 7-year-old girl when they accidentally raided the wrong house. There are now 150 SWAT raids A DAY. Most for NONVIOLENT crime. When you have a big hammer, everything looks like a nail.
@onemoreposter: yes I did see the video, and yes he was committing a felony as soon as he started pulling away from the police officers. Regardless of what he did to get arrested, the choice was made to arrest him, in which he refused to comply, and was pulling away from the officers, while getting more worked up. Imagine if he swung, and officer could be critically hurt due to how big this guy was. They acting in accordance to bring him down (arrest) him, and did so to protect the officers safety.
The fact is, as soon as he was secure on the ground the officer released his hold, and he was still alive. His body simply could catch up to his heart which is why he died, which is due to this own resistence, not the choke.
Lol, we must be watching different videos. At what point was he threatening to the officers? At what point on the ground did the man resist?
"Regardless of what he did to get arrested"... so we should treat a shoplifter the same as we do a murderer? No, there is not a "regardless of what he did." There are degrees.
"Imagine" if he had pulled out a BOMB! Everyone would have died! They should have just shot him in the head from the get go! Right? By your logic?
He didn't pull out a bomb though, same as he didn't swing on anyone.
Also, just fyi, resisting arrest without violence isn't a felony in many states.
Hey, if you want to defend the police senselessly killing a man, that's fine and I doubt I can change your mind.
Just because a cop does something doesn't make it right. Police have executive powers, but that doesn't mean those executive powers are always used properly.
I hope someday you experience what it's like when you're going about your own business, doing what you think is the right thing, and you get brutalized by someone who has higher legal power than you do. Until then, PLEASE, continue to justify murder by little men taking advantage of the power the public has invested in them.
Wow, I've lost respect for anyone saying "he shouldn't have resisted". Who the hell is resisting arrest with their hands raise like this...
Man you people are just so mindf*cked into believing that the cops have the right to merc you if you don't do what they say no matter what it is...wow, people calling Eric Garner an idiot who resisted arrest ... I have no words for those people, disgraceful......the man said "I CANT BREATHE" 8 times!!! They sat there and watched him, no CPR, no professional help, just a bunch of losers with badges thinking about how screwed they are that they just murdered somebody. They may as well have poked him with a stick...man...Some people on this site make me sick, defending them? F**k that, it's not right....
@onemoreposter: he wasn't innocent, he broke the law, so he was being arrested and started resisting, he isn't the angel you are trying to make him out to be. As for the bomb argument, that isnt impossible, but it wasn't a present threat like the threat of being hit by someone resisting in the manner he was.
As for the last part, I'm not a felon and I am not going to break the law, or resist arrest, so I would say the chances of that are very slim.
Wow, I've lost respect for anyone saying "he shouldn't have resisted". Who the hell is resisting arrest with their hands raise like this...
Man you people are just so mindf*cked into believing that the cops have the right to merc you if you don't do what they say no matter what it is...wow, people calling Eric Garner an idiot who resisted arrest ... I have no words for those people, disgraceful......the man said "I CANT BREATHE" 8 times!!! They sat there and watched him, no CPR, no professional help, just a bunch of losers with badges thinking about how screwed they are that they just murdered somebody. They may as well have poked him with a stick...man...Some people on this site make me sick, defending them? F**k that, it's not right....
@cable_extreme: Resisting Arrest is defined by the following:
fleeing a police officer while being arrested
threatening a police officer with physical violence while being arrested (clear verbal threats. A Stance is not classified as threatening.)
physically struggling to get out from being restrained (handcuffed or put into the police vehicle)
attacking a police officer while being arrested
providing an officer with false identification (either verbally or by presentation of a false official document, i.e. a fake ID)
Putting your hands up and walking backwards is not resisting arrest. Raising your voice is not resisting arrest. A threatening stance is not resisting arrest.
But yeah, that dude was ready to kill some cops, that's why they had like 6 dudes on him. You hear the threats he was saying? "Please, I can't breathe! I can't breathe!" That's some scary sh*t right there. If I was there I would have just shot him on the spot.
I also like how the Emergency Responder made absolutely no attempt to resuscitate the victim. No CPR, no defib, no vetricular massaging. Just a finger on the neck "Yep, He's dead guys!".
@cable_extreme: I really don't want to get into anything here, but I needed to let you know that you saying dozens of times that it's the man's own fault he's dead is just gross. He lightly raised his hands up. Is that really "resisting?" Check ThatGuyWithHeadPhones gif. I get that you are really into this police stuff, but don't take the side just because you associate with them the most. Formulate your own opinion.
In any case, the man was a husband, a father to 6, and a grandfather to 2. 9 people's lives were just turned upside down due to the direct actions of these officers. The man didn't choke himself, he didn't know he was going to get choked, he didn't know anything he did was worthy of arrest, he didn't know having a completely innocent knee-jerk reaction to a man grabbing you would end up in his death.
Stop personally attacking the man. He's dead. It wasn't his fault. He should have been slightly more compliant, but I'd be lying if I said those plain clothes cops weren't shady looking young men. But I digress. This topic really just needs to be laid to rest, just as this man recently was.
If the government would stop wasting tax dollars on stuff like giving Israel 3 billion in finical aid every year, maybe we would have money to hire a better crop of police.
It's high risk, and low pay. The job can even make good men into complete ***holes. They don't really train beat cops how to deal with complex situations. All cops are honestly thinking about is I better do whatever I have to do to make it home safely.
Increase police pay and training.
Arm them with more non lethal options.
Only hire cops with at least partial college experience(call me a snob if you want, but the chances of you being a dumby decrease dramatically).
Stop allowing the US government to waste so much money on foreign aid and wars. Then we would have enough money to improve things like the police and public education.
All cops must take a racial sensitivity class.
All cops with master degrees automatically get double pay.
All cops should be taught to think like detectives.
@cable_extreme: Also, before you reply to me, please be aware that I've read through the entire thread. I've read every point you made, and the fact is, I just plain disagree with them. So, unless you have something new to bring to the table, please just allow us to agree to disagree. Thanks.
But as an outsider looking in, having read this thread, I don't think anyone is "happy" that someone died while being arrested. As much as some posters might be arguing that the police used the appropriate methods, I don't think that translates into "I'm glad someone died." I think it translates into someone's opinion that they feel the police "didn't do anything wrong."
If you all continue to discuss this, you might want to make sure you are discussing the exact same point and not assume intent. Just my two cents.
@jaken7: I wasn't attacking the man, I'm explaining what happened. You are trying to make him look innocent, he broke the law, which is grounds to be arrested, and then resisted arrest. That is a felony, he is a felon, simple as that. Resisting arrest is a VERY big deal, and saying that he is a father of six even makes a stronger case for why did he choose to resist? The choke itself didn't kill him, his struggling did, he was alive yelling he couldn't breath after the choke hold was released, he is a big guy that got worked up from resisting, and his breathing couldn't catch up with his heart. The choke did play a role in his death, but the ultimate cause is his death was his defiance.
@cable_extreme: Oh, you want viable points? The guy had a court date in October over selling Untaxed cigarettes and possessing weed. He broke up a fight between three men. He was apparantly a friendly guy in his neighborhood.
The cops weren't justified in the attacking. They couldn't even give a good reason on why they were bothering him. No matter what they tried to do during the arrest, their motive was wrong and they should have left him alone.
The cops should have left the poor fellow alone. There aren't any sides, they is only one side. The cops had no reason to choke the guy out. They could have forced him arms behind his back if they had the strength and energy to choke him out and hold him against the ground. They had four officers and the dick who put the big guy in a choke hold did a pretty good job at restraining him.
Honestly, how were any of the officers in danger? Tell me that? Who was in danger? The only person I saw in danger was getting choked out. Cops who use excessive brutality get fired. I can personally tell you that. His resistance was what, moving his forearms up? That is not a good reason for the cops to take action like that.
Tell me, why do you support the cops? Race? Is it because the man was black that you support the cops? Before you accuse me of race baiting, keep in mind that your commentary on this subject makes no sense. Assuming that you are bigoted is the only logical thing at this point.
Keep in mind, things like this hits home for me. I have seen, heard and experienced unpleasant officers. Trust me, if you were in this situation, you'd probably panic and run because God knows what the officer who is illegally arresting you plans to do with you. To tell the truth, only trust the police if they are black (...or at least not white)and in Detroit, my home town. They are the officers I trust and that is because I haven't had bad experiences with them and I have lots of family members who are in DPD.
Keep in mind, this guy still is an animal from Earth like all of us. If a bunch of other life forms attempt to capture you for an unknown reason, you wil naturally feel threatened and feel a sense of dange. It makes sense for this guy to not want to get captured and taken away for an unkwon reason and knowing these assholes knowadays, they would probably charge him with a crime he didn't commit and put him prison for the rest of his life.
@ancient_0f_days: @generator2000: They were arresting him for selling untaxed cigarettes which is huge apparently in NY. When the officers were placing him under arrest, he waived his arms up and screamed don't touch me. Resisting arrest clear as day. So what if he said " I can't breathe" People will say sh*t to just to get a fighting chance, oh my handcuffs are too tight etc.
Also right before they arrest him, a portion of the video is edited out. I would like to see the full video.
Exactly why i don't even like to comment on these threads. You don't know the whole truth. if you weren't there you don't know how it went down. Video can be, and is edited all the time. it can be very misleading. All I know is that it is a horrible tragedy.
Fact of the matter is the NYPD is not supposed to put people in a choke hold, that's been a policy there for years. So while the man that died obviously shouldn't have been selling those cigarettes and trying to avoid arrest, the police were not supposed to choke him either.
@mr_clockwork91: Untaxed Cigarettes give the cops reason to kill a man? So this guy deserves death because the government didn't make a profit off of something he sold? Resisting arrest? HE moved his forearms up a little bit like he was goign to put them over his head and said don't touch me. The officers proceed to strangle him, hold his face against the ground against as he slowly began to choke to death? Ok, who did the more extreme thing? Apparantly, they only needed one officer to restrain him and the second one could have handcuffed him, but they proceded to do all of this extr shit at the cost of their jobs. He said he couldn't breathe... and he died becuase of that. The officer had his arm around the big guy's neck and a bunch of officers were on top of the obviously obese man.
ONe thing is certain, there were witnesses and the when the cops moved in to arrest him, it was obviosu that none of the cops were assaulted in any sort of way. According to bystanders, he didn't do anything to deserve what happened to him. If the big guy did something wrong, then the cops who murdered him wouldn't be out of their jos.
@mr_clockwork91: Untaxed Cigarettes give the cops reason to kill a man? So this guy deserves death because the government didn't make a profit off of something he sold? Resisting arrest? HE moved his forearms up a little bit like he was goign to put them over his head and said don't touch me. The officers proceed to strangle him, hold his face against the ground against as he slowly began to choke to death? Ok, who did the more extreme thing? Apparantly, they only needed one officer to restrain him and the second one could have handcuffed him, but they proceded to do all of this extr shit at the cost of their jobs. He said he couldn't breathe... and he died becuase of that. The officer had his arm around the big guy's neck and a bunch of officers were on top of the obviously obese man.
ONe thing is certain, there were witnesses and the when the cops moved in to arrest him, it was obviosu that none of the cops were assaulted in any sort of way. According to bystanders, he didn't do anything to deserve what happened to him. If the big guy did something wrong, then the cops who murdered him wouldn't be out of their jos.
@cable_extreme: He never physically resisted until the cops started choking him FOR resisting arrest. The fact remains that the Cop started choking him in the first place for resisting arrest, which he clearly wasn't doing under those guidelines. You can't physically assault someone for resisting arrest, and THEN have him resist, and get him for resisting arrest, that's a false order of events.
Also, for the record, the police commissioner of New York and Muktiple Detectives/Police Seargents agree that what that cop did was not correct protocol. But if you know more about police work than the commissioner of the NYPD, then by all means, continue to keep making a fool out of yourself.
@lunacyde: So the cops were righteous? Ok, maybe I should become a cop so I can beat and kill people. I can claim that they were resisting arrest and all of you idiots will believe me.
@lunacyde: So the cops were righteous? Ok, maybe I should become a cop so I can beat and kill people. I can claim that they were resisting arrest and all of you idiots will believe me.
No, once again you are taking things out of proportion. You do realize that there are more than just the two extremes....there is a lot of area in between. Either you are a troll or lacking in analytical skills.
No one here, or anyone in their right mind really believes that police have a right to beat or kill people on a whim.
The police in this situation DID NOT intentionally murder this man. They didn't kill him for selling untaxed cigarettes, or anyhting else. They attempted to arrest the man, and in the process he lost his life. It was a horrific accident. Yes, the police were overzealous. Yes, the police made a poor decision. Yes, they deserve to be punished for their recklessness and negligence. However, they did not intentionally kill the guy as you seem to assert. They didn't wake up that morning thinking hey i'm going to kill this guy today, it's going to be great. They did their job, they made a mistake, and they ended up taking a man's life as a result. You make it seem as if their intent was to get away with murder the whole time, hence why i said you were misleading and blowing things out of proportion. Your statements are not accurate.
Also I don't see how your picture applies as this situation had nothing to do with guns at all.
The cops did something illegal and they killed him. You are not supposed to attack a man like that. There is nothing inbetween, only the two extremes. The cops deserve no mercy or consideration. If they had intended to hurt the poor fellow, they wouldn't have piled on top of him while the other cop choked him out. If you guys didn't believe in police brutality, then why would mke excuses for them? You make stabs at my analytical skills, but I was replying to someone else with my questions on why he believed that the cops were righteous.
Of course that wasn't their first intention, but what they did is still wrong and they ultimately did kill the man unrighteously. The cops went overboard for no reason and they didn't have enough sense to back off when it was obvious that the guy wasn't especially strong or really trying too hard even resist. The cop put him in a chokehold and obviously had him restrained ( by the way, the chokehold wasn't even necessary), but why did they need a bunch of extra officers to get on top of him and contribute to what led to his death? They were trying to kill him, or at least hurt him ( making an example out of him). It should have been obvious to the cops that he wasn't a threat and didn't need to be dogpiled on. Hell, the guy stil had him in a chokehold whilst on the ground. The other cops had him down, he could have at least let go of the man who was getting strangled. They made a purposeely poor descision and deserve no mercy if they get into legal trouble for what they have done. Their actions properly showed what their intention was.
Hell, a bunch of white cops going overboard on a big black male for no reason does not surprise me and I should probably assume that they had negative motives fromt he start. I know what type of people they are and I would not be surprised if they targeted him.
@cable_extreme: Jesus, Jacob. You have a really sad, twisted, cynical view of things. Would you mind describing exactly what it was that you perceived to be "resisting arrest?" Because you are literally the only person saying that. Every news segment and article has not mentioned that. The police did not mention that in their statement. Kind of odd don't you think? Any other time a case of police brutality gains media attention, if the suspect resisted arrest, that is the first thing they bring up. Yet no one brought that up. Maybe because it didn't happen. In fact, a Detective Howard was quoted as specifically saying that his office was involved because there was in fact wrongdoing. You're letting your bias cloud your perception, and not looking at the facts.
A man is dead. Regardless of what you think of his actions, somebody's life just ended in a horrific way. It's revolting thing to joke about that.
Hundreds of thousands of people die a day. I should somehow care more about this guy because someone made a Facebook post about him?
You don't have to care about him. Just don't make jokes about him. He has a family, just like those hundreds of thousands of people who die a day. What if a cop choked your Dad out and a passer-by said "He really should have tapped out."? Its not nice.
A man is dead. Regardless of what you think of his actions, somebody's life just ended in a horrific way. It's revolting thing to joke about that.
Hundreds of thousands of people die a day. I should somehow care more about this guy because someone made a Facebook post about him?
You don't have to care about him. Just don't make jokes about him. He has a family, just like those hundreds of thousands of people who die a day. What if a cop choked your Dad out and a passer-by said "He really should have tapped out."? Its not nice.
It wasn't really in poor taste. Stooge is joking about the notion of someone using a WWE submission technique to get out of such a life-threatening position. He isn't poking fun at the guy dying, and he isn't making light of the situation. Maybe it's just down to interpretation, but I don't see a reason to get annoyed about what appears to be a simple joke.
It's like saying that someone's voice is so gruff that they sound like they have throat cancer - is cancer funny? No. But the joke is that their voice sounds to gruff that they must have an illness as terrible as cancer. There's a difference between making fun of something, and using something as the premise for a joke. It's the same as the difference between jokes about race, and racist jokes.
@jaken7: he resisted arrest in the video. The cops were arresting him and he was resisting when he said don't touch me, and brought his hands up. I'm also sorry about your opinion, but it is just that, your opinion. I am not saying anything twisted, or bad, I am presenting another side of the argument civilly, and you shouldn't try and degrade people that disagree with you.
I know you are a nice guy, so I'll keep on the conversation.
The reason why I think he was in the wrong is as follows. He knows that he broke the law by selling untaxed cigarettes, and possessing weed, and instead of talking to the cops, he started yelling at them to leave him alone. Something which could have simply been a fine was then pushed to an arrest due to the choices he made in being unapproachable. The cops had full legal right to arrest him in the first place, so since he wasn't complying, they decided to arrest him in which he pulled away saying don't touch me and brought his hands up. This in law enforcement signifies a potential danger, and due to his resistance, they decided to take him down and secure him using a modified carotid restraint. He responded by saying he couldn't breath, however, the first time I actually heard him say it was after the choke hold was released meaning that the culprit of his Death was his weight, his heart, and his resistance to being taken down and restrained. I am in no way supporting his unfortunate death, but I am supporting the actions the cops used. Cops must remain proactive to help keep them as safe as possible. Who knew he would die? They didn't keep the choke in until he died, they let it up as soon as he was secure.
@jaken7: he resisted arrest in the video. The cops were arresting him and he was resisting when he said don't touch me, and brought his hands up. I'm also sorry about your opinion, but it is just that, your opinion. I am not saying anything twisted, or bad, I am presenting another side of the argument civilly, and you shouldn't try and degrade people that disagree with you.
I know you are a nice guy, so I'll keep on the conversation.
The reason why I think he was in the wrong is as follows. He knows that he broke the law by selling untaxed cigarettes, and possessing weed, and instead of talking to the cops, he started yelling at them to leave him alone. Something which could have simply been a fine was then pushed to an arrest due to the choices he made in being unapproachable. The cops had full legal right to arrest him in the first place, so since he wasn't complying, they decided to arrest him in which he pulled away saying don't touch me and brought his hands up. This in law enforcement signifies a potential danger, and due to his resistance, they decided to take him down and secure him using a modified carotid restraint. He responded by saying he couldn't breath, however, the first time I actually heard him say it was after the choke hold was released meaning that the culprit of his Death was his weight, his heart, and his resistance to being taken down and restrained. I am in no way supporting his unfortunate death, but I am supporting the actions the cops used. Cops must remain proactive to help keep them as safe as possible. Who knew he would die? They didn't keep the choke in until he died, they let it up as soon as he was secure.
Fact of the matter is the NYPD is not supposed to put people in a choke hold, that's been a policy there for years. So while the man that died obviously shouldn't have been selling those cigarettes and trying to avoid arrest, the police were not supposed to choke him either.
@cable_extreme: Again, no one else has brought up resistance to arrest. Not even the police in their own statement.
^_^
Except they didn't have probable cause to do anything. They just made an assumption. By the conversation, you can clearly tell he has a history with these officers, and he felt he was being harassed. He was fed up and said "this ends today." Witnesses place him outside of a store, trying to break up a fight. It's not outside the realm of probability that the police were called or came over due to the commotion, recognized the man, and assumed he was up to old habits again. However, after the fact, they found no cigarettes or anything of that nature on his person or in his car. So where was the reasoning behind his arrest? What was he being charged with?
And you still haven't explained why the police themselves said there was wrongdoing in this incident.
Shouldn't have resisted.. Even if you were being wrongfully accused or harassed you should take it to court and prove that.. You're always innocent until the court rules you guilty or not.
@jezer: I already defined the difference between illegal choke, and a modified coratid restraint. An illegal choke is the crushing of the trachea, when the officer actually synched in the choke (with both hands) he was doing a modified coratid restraint.
@jaken7: he was confronted for selling untaxed cigarettes, and actually died of a heart attack. He has been arrested 31 times as well for drug related charges.
@jezer: I already defined the difference between illegal choke, and a modified coratid restraint. An illegal choke is the crushing of the trachea, when the officer actually synched in the choke (with both hands) he was doing a modified coratid restraint.
Interesting. Excuse me if I'm repeating things that have been repeated over and over, I haven't read this thread indepthly. Why do you think the NYPD commissioner Bratton say it appears, from their perspective, as a chokehold?
Asked if officers used a chokehold during the arrest, Bratton said that "this would appear to have been a chokehold as defined in the department's patrol guide. But the investigation will seek to confirm that."
@jaken7: he resisted arrest in the video. The cops were arresting him and he was resisting when he said don't touch me, and brought his hands up. I'm also sorry about your opinion, but it is just that, your opinion. I am not saying anything twisted, or bad, I am presenting another side of the argument civilly, and you shouldn't try and degrade people that disagree with you.
I know you are a nice guy, so I'll keep on the conversation.
The reason why I think he was in the wrong is as follows. He knows that he broke the law by selling untaxed cigarettes, and possessing weed, and instead of talking to the cops, he started yelling at them to leave him alone. Something which could have simply been a fine was then pushed to an arrest due to the choices he made in being unapproachable. The cops had full legal right to arrest him in the first place, so since he wasn't complying, they decided to arrest him in which he pulled away saying don't touch me and brought his hands up. This in law enforcement signifies a potential danger, and due to his resistance, they decided to take him down and secure him using a modified carotid restraint. He responded by saying he couldn't breath, however, the first time I actually heard him say it was after the choke hold was released meaning that the culprit of his Death was his weight, his heart, and his resistance to being taken down and restrained. I am in no way supporting his unfortunate death, but I am supporting the actions the cops used. Cops must remain proactive to help keep them as safe as possible. Who knew he would die? They didn't keep the choke in until he died, they let it up as soon as he was secure.
Fact of the matter is the NYPD is not supposed to put people in a choke hold, that's been a policy there for years. So while the man that died obviously shouldn't have been selling those cigarettes and trying to avoid arrest, the police were not supposed to choke him either.
Well before people start analyzing my comment let me state that the resisting arrest part it debatable. To me personally , it didn't look like he was really resisting all that much until they grabbed him, it looked like he moved a little bit and then they sprang in. (I know this can be considered resisting if they tell him he is under arrest and to not move before hand) I also personally don't think anybody needed to be arrested over some untaxed cigarettes. Heroine, meth, or crack? Sure, take him down, but cigarettes? That's something that can be talked about , or a fine, or even a warning. Not taking sides here, as I understand both point of views. To me personally it just seemed like everybody overreacted a bit
@jaken7: this is a controversial issue, people are going to disagree. So I'm not surprised there are people saying they were in the wrong. It is very sketchy, I am just providing my opinion as to why I support thier actions. And the police do not speak for the judges.
Pulling away and pulling your hands up screaming at the cops is resisting.
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