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#1 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

Hey non american viners, it seems that this issue has been everywhere in the net as of recent times. In this thread feel free to show concern or to simply talk about this odd issue, and why you care/don't care about it. It is a polarizing case that involves plenty of factors, but from an outside perspective it seems rather bland.

So how do you think about it?

Do you care?

just thoughts and comments here please.

#2 Posted by DwightSpitz (567 posts) - - Show Bio

It is truly disturbing to see the racism & the national ignorance of it in the US. How little actually has changed, if this had happened in the country I live in that honkey would've been in prison for life, think about it, he murdered a child.

I'm not surprised this was the outcome, it is the US after all, but in the end no sentencing is going to bring back the kid who just went out to get some skittles & never came back...

I pray America uses this terrible event to make a change for real, unlike the Rodney King beating, racism is very much alive all over the West, but it is remarkably strong in the US, especially with their history of civil rights movements.

#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33951 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont even know what this is about

#4 Posted by frogdog (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

There would have been riots in London, if it took place over there.

#5 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

It is truly disturbing to see the racism & the national ignorance of it in the US. How little actually has changed, if this had happened in the country I live in that honkey would've been in prison for life, think about it, he murdered a child.

I'm not surprised this was the outcome, it is the US after all, but in the end no sentencing is going to bring back the kid who just went out to get some skittles & never came back...

I pray America uses this terrible event to make a change for real, unlike the Rodney King beating, racism is very much alive all over the West, but it is remarkably strong in the US, especially with their history of civil rights movements.

I'm curious now, what enlightened place do you hail from?

#6 Posted by noj (1091 posts) - - Show Bio

@dwightspitz: Wow the ignorance in this statement is insane. So do you really know nothing about the case or are you just ignoring the facts? Trayvon Martin was hardly innocent in the situation and he certainly wasnt a child. You make it sound like he got shot for picking up skittles at the store or being black. He got shot because he was assaulting Zimmerman in a way that threatened his life. You cant go smashing someones head against the pavement and expect no consequence. Zimmerman didnt exercise the best judgement in the hours leading up to the incident but that doesnt make him guilty of Second Degree Murder or even Manslaughter.

#7 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

Looking at vids back in youtube I blame Jeantel, if she had said things more clearer the tide would have been better for Martin.

random youtube vid

I take neutral side

  • in hindsight zims should have shot him elsewhere, not to kill but to maim so that tray dismounts him [a wound would deter the boy from going further]
  • trayvon could always scream for help when followed by a stranger, rather than outright attacking [might have yield different results, get more people involved]
#8 Edited by DwightSpitz (567 posts) - - Show Bio

@reignmaker said:

I'm curious now, what enlightened place do you hail from?

One of the many countries in the world were adults who kill minors are sentenced to jail. How "enlightened" it is just for that fact I don't know, but yeah, you can't do that.

#9 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont care when a poor s.o.b. is caught in america's stupidity. neither does my country. what i do care about is: people need to get on with their lives and stop twiddling their thumbs with things that dont concern them. i bet they have more immediate problems than some trial.

#10 Posted by WillPayton (9558 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone thinks they're an expert on the law because they watched hours of MSNBC ranting about this case.

#11 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

@dwightspitz: You must be proud of it if you're so reluctant to name it.

#12 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone thinks they're an expert on the law because they watched hours of MSNBC ranting about this case.

This. So much this.

#13 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer:

stop twiddling their thumbs with things that dont concern them. i bet they have more immediate problems than some trial.

words of wisdom

#14 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@strongarm: freaking a**holes. what did they proove? i'll tell ya. that they are a**holes. while i was watching this, i was thinking to myself 'there's going to be some idiot teen that says it was all in the moment. that he/she was hurting so bad.' 10 seconds later there you go.

#15 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: I switch perspectives on this one so I can try my best to objectively decide, by setting up bullet points for both zims and tray. I will not be swayed by emotions or morals, I just want to count up points since I have no time to be seriously involved.

So I head to plenty of sites to get informations, some are emphatic while others are sardonic [I can post links if interested]

#16 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@strongarm: no thanks, man. i've seen enough. this circus needs to end. in 1 week nobody will care. like every other time.

#17 Posted by Ratatat (697 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone thinks they're an expert on the law because they watched hours of MSNBC ranting about this case.

#18 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: can you help me in helping charles?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/taylor-swift-charles-1478433/?messageId=9929533

#19 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio

As i already mentioned in another thread your Justice system is f**cked.

In the last few weeks a Woman was sent to jail for 20 years for shooting in the air to scare off her husband & an unarmed young lad shot to death by a wanna be cop who was then set free..

#20 Edited by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Woah, lots of hostility here.

I am a non-American and I find this case deplorable simply because the use of a firearm causing death resulted in no penalty what-so-ever. I can confidently say, in my country, that would not happen. Carrying a handgun -- and using it to kill someone else (self-defense or not) -- has a couple of charges which will stick. One -- the illegal possession of a handgun, two -- the concealing of a handgun and three -- using said gun which is recognized as a weapon specifically to kill to actually kill someone.

A minor.

What amazes me too how this kid's age is disregarded, especially in the United States. You can send your soldiers off to war at 18 to die for your country and vote for your Commander-In-Chief but you can't swig back a beer? Trayvon was 17 years old. Legally a minor. Just like if you were to have sex with a girl who is a day away from turning 18 -- you will be charged and found guilty of statutory rape.

My point? It's a tragedy that could have been avoided if people didn't keep their heads under the sand and ignored the reality of racial profiling, ease of access for firearms and a nice, big, complicated tangle of socio-economic reasons for fostering an environment where something like this can happen.

My opinion, as a non-American.

(Edited to add: The Stand Your Ground law is a travesty in itself)

#21 Edited by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: I agree. I was actually talking to a friend about how they make Martin out to be some 14 year old. The outdated pictures don't help either. For a country that loves their right to bear arms, they sure are pissed that Zimmerman was bearing a firearm.

I found the biggest problem to be that people were discussing the "stand your ground" law. Might I add, it's one of the most exploited laws in history and no one really knows how it works. Since guns are legal in America, Zimmerman had the right to carry his. He also had the right to use it for self-defense.

So glad I live in Canada.

#22 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

It is truly disturbing to see the racism & the national ignorance of it in the US. How little actually has changed, if this had happened in the country I live in that honkey would've been in prison for life, think about it, he murdered a child.

I'm not surprised this was the outcome, it is the US after all, but in the end no sentencing is going to bring back the kid who just went out to get some skittles & never came back...

I pray America uses this terrible event to make a change for real, unlike the Rodney King beating, racism is very much alive all over the West, but it is remarkably strong in the US, especially with their history of civil rights movements.

Honkey? And, you call Americans racist and ignorant?

Zimmerman is not white. There was not enough evidence and that's that.

#23 Edited by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Woah, lots of hostility here.

I am a non-American and I find this case deplorable simply because the use of a firearm causing death resulted in no penalty what-so-ever. I can confidently say, in my country, that would not happen. Carrying a handgun -- and using it to kill someone else (self-defense or not) -- has a couple of charges which will stick. One -- the illegal possession of a handgun, two -- the concealing of a handgun and three -- using said gun which is recognized as a weapon specifically to kill to actually kill someone.

(Edited to add: The Stand Your Ground law is a travesty in itself)

That is because your country is nuts. Everyone has the right to defend themselves and carry a weapon.

Stand you ground is a fine law.

No one has the right to tell someone they can't defend themselves.

#24 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

You are now realizing this thread will start World War 3.

#25 Posted by Akindoodle (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank God that Ireland doesn't have many guns or much racism. I don't think I want to live in the U.S at this moment in time

#26 Edited by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank God that Ireland doesn't have many guns or much racism. I don't think I want to live in the U.S at this moment in time

You're mistaken.

#27 Edited by consolemaster001 (5838 posts) - - Show Bio

From where i am it seems like zimmerman was defending himself....

#28 Edited by Akindoodle (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe: You Irish? Nice to meet you. I live in the suburbs of Dublin not Limerick or Galway. That encompasses Ireland in my mind. I guess I should have said Dublin or rather, South Dublin

#29 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe: You Irish? Nice to meet you. I live in the suburbs of Dublin not Limerick or Galway. That encompasses Ireland in my mind. I guess I should have said Dublin or rather, South Dublin

I am part Irish. I don't live there.

#30 Edited by Nova`Prime` (4165 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank God that Ireland doesn't have many guns or much racism. I don't think I want to live in the U.S at this moment in time

I have to ask because I am really curious.. how old are you?

#31 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio
What it looks like

#32 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

never fails to entertain

#33 Posted by Akindoodle (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

@nova_prime_: Seems I've misrepresented something here.*sigh*. I guess what I meant to say was that I have little experience of racism in Ireland. I'm a 17 year old Nigerian and you don't often hear of shootings in Dublin or was it the not living in America part that confuses you? Are you Irish or do you live in Ireland?

#34 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

#35 Edited by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

#36 Edited by Pyrogram (40962 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

I am a non-American and I find this case deplorable simply because the use of a firearm causing death resulted in no penalty what-so-ever. I can confidently say, in my country, that would not happen.

I disagree with this and it borders on sounding like you some kind of superiority complex regarding Canada's legal system, which if what you are saying is true is broken. Self defense is a legal reason to lawfully kill weather you like it or not. It is even morally correct if you feel your life is in danger.

Disregarding the case, I am talking about your use of NO penalty? Big deal? If it was done lawfully who are you, or who is anybody to say "in my country" MAYBE your country has a crappy legal system which stops law abiding citizens defending themselves. Killing somebody can be lawful, that is how the law works and if it does not work like that in Canada...well I am quite frankly shocked. And the rest of your thing saying about how having a handgun is illegal is not even an opinion, carrying a gun in the US is like carrying toothpicks. Nobody cares.

Online
#37 Edited by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe:

Stand you ground is a fine law.

No one has the right to tell someone they can't defend themselves.

your government has that right and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you want a face full of drone

#38 Posted by Pyrogram (40962 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe:

Stand you ground is a fine law.

No one has the right to tell someone they can't defend themselves.

your government has that right and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you want a face full of drone

lmfao XD

Online
#39 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7990 posts) - - Show Bio

From where i am it seems like zimmerman was defending himself....

You must be from a great country.

Because you are RIGHT.

#40 Posted by AweSam (7375 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Pretty sure she's just talking about the use of firearms when defending oneself. We do have the right to defend ourselves, obviously, we just hardly ever find ourselves in that predicament.

Also, Canada is the best. Ahaha

#41 Posted by Pyrogram (40962 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@pyrogram: Pretty sure she's just talking about the use of firearms when defending oneself. We do have the right to defend ourselves, obviously, we just hardly ever find ourselves in that predicament.

Also, Canada is the best. Ahaha

Good >.> 'Cos saying otherwise is frankly quite dumb lol

Racist! Joking joking.

Online
#42 Edited by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio
@pyrogram said:

@awesam said:

@pyrogram: Pretty sure she's just talking about the use of firearms when defending oneself. We do have the right to defend ourselves, obviously, we just hardly ever find ourselves in that predicament.

Also, Canada is the best. Ahaha

Good >.> 'Cos saying otherwise is frankly quite dumb lol

Racist! Joking joking.

stateist?

#43 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe:

Stand you ground is a fine law.

No one has the right to tell someone they can't defend themselves.

your government has that right and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you want a face full of drone

That is being looked into. I hope they say it is unconstitutional, because it is.

The federal government is limited. They are just being tyrannical now. They have to be stopped.

#44 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

& who was it that wrote this Law? Where they a fair reflection on the American citizens of the time?

Was there a woman or Native American in that group?

Laws where made to be changed if they dont stand the test of time & the Right to Keep Bare arms law is one of them that needs changing imo.

#45 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

It is truly disturbing to see the racism & the national ignorance of it in the US. How little actually has changed, if this had happened in the country I live in that honkey would've been in prison for life, think about it, he murdered a child.

I'm not surprised this was the outcome, it is the US after all, but in the end no sentencing is going to bring back the kid who just went out to get some skittles & never came back...

I pray America uses this terrible event to make a change for real, unlike the Rodney King beating, racism is very much alive all over the West, but it is remarkably strong in the US, especially with their history of civil rights movements.

how was this racist? like, at all?

a half-Hispanic, Half Eastern Asian man was assaulted by, and subsequently shot a black man

what aspect of any of that is racist?

Looking at vids back in youtube I blame Jeantel, if she had said things more clearer the tide would have been better for Martin.

random youtube vid

I take neutral side

  • in hindsight zims should have shot him elsewhere, not to kill but to maim so that tray dismounts him [a wound would deter the boy from going further]
  • trayvon could always scream for help when followed by a stranger, rather than outright attacking [might have yield different results, get more people involved]

if we're using outside evidence, behold!

@lykopis said:

Woah, lots of hostility here.

I am a non-American and I find this case deplorable simply because the use of a firearm causing death resulted in no penalty what-so-ever. I can confidently say, in my country, that would not happen. Carrying a handgun -- and using it to kill someone else (self-defense or not) -- has a couple of charges which will stick. One -- the illegal possession of a handgun, two -- the concealing of a handgun and three -- using said gun which is recognized as a weapon specifically to kill to actually kill someone.

A minor.

What amazes me too how this kid's age is disregarded, especially in the United States. You can send your soldiers off to war at 18 to die for your country and vote for your Commander-In-Chief but you can't swig back a beer? Trayvon was 17 years old. Legally a minor. Just like if you were to have sex with a girl who is a day away from turning 18 -- you will be charged and found guilty of statutory rape.

My point? It's a tragedy that could have been avoided if people didn't keep their heads under the sand and ignored the reality of racial profiling, ease of access for firearms and a nice, big, complicated tangle of socio-economic reasons for fostering an environment where something like this can happen.

My opinion, as a non-American.

(Edited to add: The Stand Your Ground law is a travesty in itself)

1. you realize Zimmerman is also a minority in this nation?

2. you realize that Zimmerman would probably have been killed or seriously injured if he didn't have that gun?

What it looks like

yes, yes

because people who did not legally commit murder should go to jail for murder.......

#46 Edited by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe said:

@awesam said:

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

& who was it that wrote this Law? Where they a fair reflection on the American citizens of the time?

Was there a woman or Native American in that group?

Laws where made to be changed if they dont stand the test of time & the Right to Keep Bare arms law is one of them that needs changing imo.

You're wrong.

Inalienable rights are rights that cannot be sold, taken away, or changed.

#47 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@awesam said:

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

& who was it that wrote this Law? Where they a fair reflection on the American citizens of the time?

Was there a woman or Native American in that group?

Laws where made to be changed if they dont stand the test of time & the Right to Keep Bare arms law is one of them that needs changing imo.

You're wrong.

Inalienable rights are rights that cannot be sold, taken away, or changed.

Isnt that a form of Dictatorship? Sounds very arcane.

So much for a Democratic vote on the subject then?

#48 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe said:

@chaos_prime said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@awesam said:

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

& who was it that wrote this Law? Where they a fair reflection on the American citizens of the time?

Was there a woman or Native American in that group?

Laws where made to be changed if they dont stand the test of time & the Right to Keep Bare arms law is one of them that needs changing imo.

You're wrong.

Inalienable rights are rights that cannot be sold, taken away, or changed.

Isnt that a form of Dictatorship? Sounds very arcane.

So much for a Democratic vote on the subject then?

No, it is a very good thing. This is not a democracy. America is supposed to be a Republic.

#49 Posted by Beefcake_Maximus (10 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing racist about this case is all the people and the media that ignore the facts and try to make it about race.

#50 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@chaos_prime said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@awesam said:

@cezar_thescribe: Everyone has the right to defend themselves, but not to bare firearms. Your way of thinking is exactly why there's so much gun violence in America. It's unbelievable how people can think everyone should own a gun.

We have the right to keep and bear arms.

& who was it that wrote this Law? Where they a fair reflection on the American citizens of the time?

Was there a woman or Native American in that group?

Laws where made to be changed if they dont stand the test of time & the Right to Keep Bare arms law is one of them that needs changing imo.

You're wrong.

Inalienable rights are rights that cannot be sold, taken away, or changed.

Isnt that a form of Dictatorship? Sounds very arcane.

So much for a Democratic vote on the subject then?

No, it is a very good thing. This is not a democracy. America is supposed to be a Republic.

Republic? sounds like old fashioned Stalinism.