No hard feelings, Native Americans?

Remember that time when we came to the new world and made friends with the natives? That was fun. I'm glad we made friends with the Indians. We did good. :) Yay Thanksgiving!

Right?

....right guys?

Oh boy..

Not only were my ancestors brutally murdering each other and taking each other's stuff all the time, but the Europeans did not commit genocide. Genocide is the act of intentionally wiping out an entire people, which tribal people (like my ancestors) did and still do on a regular basis. The Europeans had no intention of committing genocide, the diseases they brought were what caused over 90% of the death. (It wasn't genocide when the Black Death came over from Asia and wiped out most of Europe, was it?) There was brutality and killing and slavery, but it was no worse than what the natives had been doing to each other for countless generations.

Furthermore, I'm not going to get mad at someone for what their long dead ancestors did to my long dead ancestors. That's just ridiculous.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

yeah but evicting natives from their own land? even I would feel pissed about that :p

I would take a native American being mad at me for what happened to their ancestors about as seriously as I would take an African-American being mad at me for slavery...meaning not at all....I didn't do anything to them...I didn't hand out blankets and I didn't push anyone into ships

Well how do you guys usually say it? Oh right, it's

MURICA!

Cycle of life, also more Immigrants are coming in.

food is good

@modernww2fare: If you're talking about the Trail of Tears, that was all Andrew Jackson's doing. He actually ignored orders from the Supreme Court and did it anyway. Jackson was a monster and in my opinion is up there with Hitler, but he alone was to blame and he's dead now.

If you're talking about what the Europeans did, I already explained my opinion. My people conquered each other for generations, but when white men do it to it's a crime against humanity? Really, guys?

Hm.........

A comparison between pre-Colombus tribal warfare and colonization is a gross generalization. That's akin to saying that Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs were in conflict before British Rule in India, therefore it's not that different if the British rule India. You're missing the Colonization aspect along with the statistics and motives behind disease.

The Europeans undoubtedly committed genocide. Prior to European colonization, the Native Americans undertook tribal warfare. The tribal warfare prior to the European colonization was actually very little. Prior to Columbus there was more than one hundred million Native Americans, after the Europeans came it dwindled. Was it a genocide? History points towards that. There are documented accounts which confirm that disease was often (frequently, actually) intentionally spread and encouraged. When the Europeans colonized the land, they carried out a mass genocide, forced them out of their land and ''Christianized'' them.

Historians / Native Americans speak out.

And my black brothas think they've had it bad?

@frozen: Even if that's true, there's no one alive today to apologize.

Rather then enjoying ourselves on Thanksgiving lets argue about things that we had no control over and can't possibly change.

Nope. But this is an era to which we can pay respects and spread awareness, as we do for the Holocaust.

We can change public knowledge if we choose to accept the truth. History should be about the truth, not a pack of lies sold for propaganda. Colombus was a terrorist.

Yup. XD

@racob7: that is the most intelligent thing I have ever heard anyone say. The white man is always quick to self hate, when most of the bad things they did would have happened anyway. Except splitting up Africa amongst themselves like slices of pizza and sucking it dry. That was kinda rude

@deerock313: Gee, thanks!

If that's the logic you truly to adhere to then every evil act is justified. Slavery is justified. The Holocaust is justified. British rule over India is justified.

We are people of the 21st Century. We live in a time to which the truth of what occurred in History can be spread. In regards to the Native American Genocide, you can ignore it, choose not to acknowledge it or not take interest in it - but you can't change it.

It is not self-hate to accept the truth. For the last 50 years or so the truth has been made apparent, and gradually it must (and has) come out.

"Blaming's not productive."

-Batman

@racob7: It's not a blame game. It's about accepting the truth.

Biggest genocide in the world history.

Especially on a day set aside specifically to remind you to be thankful for what you have and the good.

@dernman: You're right.

I'm thankful for the immigrants in America. They are like modern day pilgrims / settlers.

@frozen: I'm not getting your point.

Well, the major difference is that the natives actually survived relatively intact from their own warfare...

@frozen: the holocaust and tyrranical rule are a whole other matter. As @racob7 said, Native Americans were already doing these things to eachother. That's the point I was trying to make. The only difference the Europeans made was bringing the diseases, which was entirely accidental. I doubt they had any concept of biological warfare back then. The holocaust wouldn't have happened. Forcing entire civilizations under foreign government rule is inexcusable. There are always grey areas when you look at what's right and wrong. This is just one case where it doesn't make a difference either way.

If you read into it, it's not that different. This isn't a grey area either - the facts are very clear.

And how can you deny biological warfare? That's just denying the truth. In fact, a letter from a British General in North America confirmed and encouraged it:

I will try to inoculate the Indians by means of Blankets that may fall in their hands, taking care however not to get the disease myself. As it is pity to oppose good men against them, I wish we could make use of the Spaniard's Method, and hunt them with English Dogs. Supported by Rangers, and some Light Horse, who would I think effectively extirpate or remove that Vermine.

And as I said:

A comparison between pre-Colombus tribal warfare and colonization is a gross generalization. That's akin to saying that Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs were in conflict before British Rule in India, therefore it's not that different if the British rule India. You're missing the Colonization aspect along with the statistics and motives behind disease.

The Europeans undoubtedly committed genocide. Prior to European colonization, the Native Americans undertook tribal warfare. The tribal warfare prior to the European colonization was actually very little. Prior to Columbus there was more than one hundred million Native Americans, after the Europeans came it dwindled. Was it a genocide? History points towards that. There are documented accounts which confirm that disease was often (frequently, actually) intentionally spread and encouraged. When the Europeans colonized the land, they carried out a mass genocide, forced them out of their land and ''Christianized'' them.

@frozen: huh. I suppose if you're right, you're right. I concede.

Oh good another white guilt thread, yay. Sorry some people that may have been related to me did something crappy to someone who was related to you 200 years before either of us were born.

Nobody is condemning the current white population, that's illogical. But to condemn the white settlers who slaughtered the Native Americans and advocated it is just fine.

you mean the Western Europeans?

@modernww2fare: We all know what happened and we all know it was bad if you're not condemning all white people then quit asking them to appologize for crap most of them weren't alive for.

@joshmightbe: Again, NOBODY is asking for or expecting an apology.

everyone just shut up and eat your dinner

Who cares? It's (REALLY REALLY) old news, we get over it.

@frozen: then this thread is pointless. At best its a guilt thread at worst its a joke about genocide. Aside from that litterally every race on Earth is just as guilty of all the stuff people keep bitching at white people for. Every culture that has ever existed prior to 200 years ago has engaged in slavery and conquest.

@joshmightbe: By that logic let's ignore the Holocaust which occurred in Nazi Germany too. Let's also forget about 9/11 while we're at it.

The Native American genocide is one that people over the years have attempted to cover up and ignore, and justify - but this is the time where we can acknowledge the truth. It's something we don't want to remember but must never forget.

It's an ugly truth.

Who cares about the Nazi Holocaust?

Who care about slavery?

Who cares about 9/11? (which is small compared to slavery or the Native American Genocide)

Is it that time of year when we make those whose ancestors committed atrocities apologize for crimes they didn't commit?

Tell you what. If you don't guilt me on the crimes my ancestors committed, I won't guilt you on the crimes your ancestors committed. Everybody on board with that?

@frozen: Never said to ignore it just saying all pf humanity is equally guilty and its hypocritical as hell to deside that only one group of people should be held solely accountable for things that existed for as long as humans have had civilization.

Wow....Look at my thread. People are really scalping the whole issue. Without any reservations.

Nope.

Instead, it's the time of year where Americans celebrate the relations of pilgrims and puritan ancestors they never met...

Nobody's blaming one group. I don't know why you're bringing up claims which have not even been presented here. Various atrocities committed around the world are condemned. All that's been said is that this is an ugly truth. There's another side to it.

But let's apply your logic:

Instead, it's the time of year where Americans celebrate the relations of pilgrims and puritan ancestors they never met...

^ If you want to bring up that no-one cares then nobody should care about Thanksgiving in the first place, no?

You win the Internet again!

@frozen: the puritan thing is just Bs they made up to sell a holiday that was made up 2 centuries after the last pilgrim died.

I'm just saying you always see some white guilt crap popping up talking about how awful white people did awful things.

You hear peole yell about the holocaust but you never hear about how Japanese officers would have contests to see who could collect the most Chinese heads during ww2.

You hear about white people kidnapping people and selling them into slavery but we're supposed to ignore the fact that black people in Africa would capture rival tribesmen to sell to white slave traders.

You hear about how Europeans invaded everyone but we're just supposed to forget when the Mongols or Persians did the same thing.

Its just ridiculous. Humanity just needs to accept that terrible things have happened and just try not to repeat the mistakes if the past, but that will never happen until people stop caring about who's to blame and actually start trying to figure out how to fix the issues that caused it all.

Why do you say "we" as if you were there? Or as if any of us were?

@joshmightbe: People who provoke guilt or expect a race to be guilty for something are probably lame Social Justice Warriors. I agree that's not right but I've not brought that up.

And again, Japanese brutality during WW2 is HEAVILY documented. It has been documented heavily and criticized. Lack of moral/ethic in African countries is routinely reported in the News and the civil conflicts in Persia is ALL documented. All of it.

The only person bringing up guilt is you. I never alluded that an entire race should apologize and that's something you've fabricated. It's akin to...Americans who harass Muslims because of 9/11.

However it is absolutely justified to report the full scale brutality of what the Native Americans faced. The truth, is that America DID try to cover it up and ignore it, and this occurred for years after the genocide, and still does now (to an extent).

There's nothing wrong with remembering this genocide. Just as America annually mourns those who died in 9/11; what's so bad with remembering a genocide which dwarfs 9/11 atrocities?

Thanksgiving can also be an annual time to mourn the genocide.