No Church for Christians

For any Christians on this forum

Do you think if you don't go to Church, that makes you a bad Christian and you won't go to heaven.

Me personally, no.

What?

No.

But I do go to church on Christmas.

May I ask? What's the point of this thread?

Church has nothing to do with going to Heaven or being a Bad Christian... it's just a Institution that is used to create more meat puppets.

Isn't the church supposed to be the people and not the building?

For me , no

A church is a place of worship but you can worship God anywhere you want.

Church was originally formed as a house of worship, a ways for people to come together and fellowship. That being said, one can still worship the lord in their home or someone elses household. So no, not going to church isnt necessarily looked down upon in the eyes of God.

For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Matthew 18:20

According to Rev. Do Good you ain't going to heaven unless you give up the cheddah.

Hebrews 10:25

Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

The Bible tells us that unity and companionship are big parts of Christianity, we are all members of the body of Christ. I don't think it makes you 'bad' or that you're barred from heaven though. But church is a big part of your spiritual growth, to receive both instruction and fellowship, and excluding it might cause you to eventually backslide.

I repeat. Isn't the church supposed to be "the people" instead of "the building"?

THIS.

THIS too.

Sunday Church, as a gathering of people celebrating their faith and reading from the Bible, most likely in a building or selected worship space, really helps to gather the community together for support in doing the Lord's work through fellowship, Bible reading, and spiritual adoration.

Is it a sin to skip? Well, the 4th Commandment of "Honor the Sabbath" essentially means "go to Sunday church," though it seems others in this topic would disagree on that interpretation. Skipping is then frowned upon for that reason (exceptions like being sick can be made).

Would you be banished to Hell for not going to church? I hope not. Hell is for people who reject God's love outright (imagine repeatedly disobeying your parents, who know best). But only God can know the intentions of skipping worship.

@ssejllenrad: The Church is definitely the people. In college my ministry celebrated church in the unoccupied dining hall for the longest time.

This.

There are clear benefits to gathering together, and as has been pointed out it is Biblically encouraged, when possible, as a regular part of a believer's life. The key is in the gathering, however, and not the institution or the services or the rituals or anything else. To that end, it is possible for people to go to a cathedral every week (heck, every day) and not have really been "in church," just as it is possible to never step foot inside an official worship space but be very in-tune with brothers and sisters in Christ.

I honestly don't believe the creator of the universe cares how you spend your Sundays.

Just a note.

The Ten Commandments are actually a legal contract between God and the nation of Israel. From a purely technical standpoint Christians are not bound by the Law because it was only ever meant to apply to a specific nation which, it may be added, benefited uniquely from its agreement with Yahweh.

I'd also point out that honoring the Sabbath has a lot more to do with what you don't do on that day than what you do. Ironically what was instituted as a symbolic "day of rest" has since become perhaps the most stressful and busy day in the life of a believer on a weekly basis; one might argue that, the way many modern Christians "do" church, it would actually be more honorable of the Sabbath to stay home.

Church is the people. So anywhere the people are gathered is considered church. Since most people have a regular place to meet, that regular meeting place is called "Church".

@akbogert: @chocolatefrogs: The Sabbath is Saturday correct? Either way the Sabbath is not enforced anymore

@pooty: Well, like I said, the concept of the Sabbath should be considered a Jewish thing, not a Christian one, though as with most things the tradeoff isn't exactly "easier" (for example, instead of the 10%, or tithe, early Christians gave 100% of their belongings to the church; so saying we don't need to set aside a day to honor God really only works in the context of saying we're supposed to make a point of honoring Him at all times and always making Him a priority).

But to more directly answer you, yes, my understanding (and any Jews may correct me if I'm wrong) is that the traditional Sabbath begins at sundown on Friday and continues through until the same time on Saturday.

if i don't go into the real life greedy building of religion i won't be able to enter imaginary place in the clouds? oh shoot. -__-. just be good, decent people. that is the least you can do in this life. you do more, awesome for you. frequenting a building does nothing.

Isn't against the Bible to be given money to the church. Didn't Jesus say don't turn his house into a bank.

The only money that's supposed to go into a church is donation money that keeps the church running. Church members give that money. Anybody using that money for anything of personal gain is in the wrong.

Well actually He said don't turn the church into a market. The merchants selling livestock for sacrifice and exchanging coins were taking advantage of the large amount of pilgrims there, and used the church as a business opportunity. As Jesus Himself said, "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you make it a den of robbers."

Tithes are given of our own free will, and they're not given to the church - they're an offering to God. Everything we own is a blessing from God, and giving back a small portion of it is our way of saying thanks. It's how we show God that we trust him. But bear in mind that it's not a rule, but something done out of a personal relationship with God.

2 Corinthians 9:7

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Aside from it being a symbol of trust, the money also goes to helping the church - which generally operates with little to no source of income. And God wants us to give the money freely and willingly, not out of necessity but out of faith.

I know there are some denominations of Christianity that practice 'money in exchange for sins forgiven', but that's not the God I know.

I think it is disgusting that churches are still exempt from paying tax.I really do hope that is changed one day.

I agree. All places of worship are exempt.

Yeah there really is no excuse for it considering we live in more secular societies now or that is how it is supposed to be at least.

I'd like to point out that some people are very much derailing this thread -- a thread which pretty explicitly was meant for professing Christians to discuss their beliefs on church attendance, not for atheists to discuss things they are disgusted by about the church generally.

Of course OP raised the question of tithing (though I'd presume the intent was still to get doctrinal opinions from believers, not open up to external criticism), so I guess that's @jnr6lil's call.

My intentions are not derail this thread.I just thought that since people where talking about church that I would point that out. Since I have nothing to contribute regarding actually going to church and whatnot.

I only raised the point and @lykopis agreed with me. We have hardly derailed this thread and its not my intention to either.

Oh yeah, you can always count that whenever a religious thread is posted, some hardcore atheists will come here to bash the subject. When they are called out, they act benevolent saying "no, no I didn't derail this thread at all. But I still think that anyone who believes in a higher power is a blight to this world that doesn't deserve to exist. Bye."

That is why we can't have nice things;

@lykopis: @highlander_615: @mrdecepticonleader: In an effort to curb this -- and prevent my own post from derailing the topic (into a discussion about derailment), I'd just like to prematurely say what's done is done but it'd be cool if we could all try to stay on point and if you don't (as has been suggested) have anything to contribute to OP's topic, then kindly contribute nothing at all.

I'm presuming due to the lack of response that my response to @pooty regarding the Sabbath was satisfactory and/or the topic has been covered to pooty's content; I think also that Veshark's response regarding Jesus and the temple is spot-on.

With all due respect, this is not the thread for that. You're welcome to express your opinion, granted, but you could at least be courteous enough to not put them on a thread about church, and if you have nothing to contribute to the topic, then just leave it be.

I'm not saying you derailed the thread, but your comment is borderline flame bait.

Wow talk about making false accusations and putting words in my mouth. That is utterly pathetic but what is also even more so is the fact you cannot even address me head on. All I mentioned was that churches are still tax exempt that is all I mentioned nothing else.

I posted what I posted and that is that. I would have happily not posted in this thread again and I have actually said no more on the matter and will continue to do so.

No it wasn't and that was certainly not my intention, just thought I would bring that up if people are upset or offended that I said that then that is on them.

If there is no other discussion to be had here I will bow out of this thread.

@mrdecepticonleader

I'm not about to debate the merits of your comment.

It's probably best if you do; I'm sure nobody wants this thread to regress into another religious debate.

I was just clearing a few things up on my end as all,not looking for a debate.

Eh fine.

@akbogert: I knew the Sabbath was on saturday but many people think it is sunday. and many don't know we don't follow the sabbath anymore. i wish people would read for themselves instead of letting someone teach them.

The Bible tells us what is needed to get into heaven. And attending church is not stated among those things. I know some people enjoy the association and being encouraged but I am not one of those people. I have little to gain by someone telling me something that i can read for myself. I also don't like that many preach how they feel not what is written in the Bible. The Pope, of all people, just did that when he said atheist can get into heaven.

@pooty

Just because you listen to preachers, it doesn't mean that you can't read the Bible and learn for yourself via your own research, prayer, and seeking God. And the pastors and leaders of the church are all experienced and mature Christians, there's always something you can learn from them. Christians need a community, and all communities require leaders to shepherd both the new and old believers.

Ephesians 4:11-12

So Christ Himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.

Why are Christian churches taking up so much space in the country if you don't even have to attend??

If i can do all that on my own then what do I need a preacher for? My main problem is that organized religion has many doctrines and beliefs that are NOT supported in the Bible. The Pope proved that earlier this week

And the pastors and leaders of the church are all experienced and mature Christians, there's always something you can learn from them.

I disagree to an extent. The Bible was written so that " common people" can understand. I don't see much that they can teach about the Bible itself. I fully agree that experienced and mature people can teach you things, but I don't have to be at church to learn from older people.

Christians need a community, and all communities require leaders to shepherd both the new and old believers

Christians want a community. as said, most things you learn at church, you can learn on your own. If a person goes for the social aspect or to encourage them that is fine

Ephesians 4:11-12

Romans 16: 17-18

church is fine for those who like it, but it is not a requirement for salvation.

@pooty

First off, I just want to clarify that I never said church attendance was a requirement for salvation. I just think that you're missing the bigger picture.

The Bible (Ephesians) directly tells us that God Himself supplied us with pastors and preachers to "equip his people for works of service." They're here for a reason. 1 Peter 5:1-4 tells pastors: Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.

Pastors and elders are anointed by God; we as believers are entrusted to them and they are our spiritual protectors and leaders. No one person can learn everything he or she needs from the Bible alone. You need the grace of God and the help of fellow Christians.

And again, I'm not saying that 'commoners' can't read and understand the Bible for themselves. Pastors always encourage believers to seek and meditate on God's words on their own, and to develop a personal relationship with God. But it never hurts to have help along the way, to have other believers to pray for you in times of need, or to have someone to encourage you when you're in doubt. You're not there at church just to learn or as a social gathering, you're there for fellowship. 1 Thessalonians 5:11 says, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."

The Bible also tells us explicitly that we are a community. Hebrews 10:25 sums it up pretty clearly: Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another. 1 Corinthians 12: 27 says: Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. The Book of Luke itself tells us that Jesus Himself regularly went to church.

I don't know what denomination you follow, but maybe you need to find a church that practices what they preach. And I'm not judging you or saying that, "Oh, you don't go to church so you're a bad Christian". I'm just trying to tell you what the Bible teaches us about it.

Going to church or not has nothing to do with whether someone goes to Heaven. People go to church simply to learn about God. I believe that once a person has accepted Jesus Christ as his/her savior and lord, then that person will go to Heaven regardless of any choices he/she makes before or after that.

We Christians choose to attend church in order to learn more about the God that we believe has saved us from Hell, though we did nothing to deserve that salvation. We go there to learn more about Him, and also to meet other Christians in order to encourage one another in our beliefs. Christians are encouraged to go to church in order to learn more about God and build friendships with those of similar beliefs, but church attendance does not in any way affect whether or not a person will go to Heaven.

Yeah atheists are turning into hatemongers these days, who are just going around bashing Christians. They're keeping prejudice alive.

@jnr6lil Whoo man...let's dial it back a bit. I'm sure not all atheists are like that, and let's try to avoid any finger-pointing before this escalates into another mean-spirited debate.

Well said.

Also as a side comment, personally I don't believe we as human beings reside in heaven after death. I believe eternal salvation rests in the kingdom that is to b established on Earth when Christ comes. And that our conduct here on Earth determines our place in that kingdom, granted we are even allowed in. But to bring it back a little, like most here I don't believe that church attendance plays a part in determining that. So long as we still find time to worship, which is something we should be doing everyday regardless.

If you are at all referring to me at all in that comment I have "bashed" or attacked no one. I am not going to address the rest of your comment but I just felt I need to clear that up and stick up for myself.

@veshark: all those are nice scriptures but this sentence sums up the problem:

but maybe you need to find a church that practices what they preach

I'm hoping such a place exist but i have yet to find it. I understand that people will fall short of perfection. i have no problem with that. It's the "practice of sin" that is rampant in church and among so called Christians that disgust me. MANY MANY so called Christians have no problem with sex before marriage or living in sin. The congregation and pastors know but do nothing to stop it. Gossiping is rampant. The Church still celebrates X-mas and Easter which are known pagan holidays. Some churches are accepting homosexuality. Pastors are caught in adultery but not made to step down. Denominations, although they are all supposed to be Christians, talk down about other denominations. Religion today is much like politics. It originally had a good and noble cause. But people have twisted it for their own cause and it is hard to tell who to trust.

@pooty

Yeah, I can certainly understand how you feel. Maybe you need to seek God, and pray for Him to show you a church that has the right intentions and practices. I sympathize with your disillusionment, even the best churches sometimes get caught up in internal politics, and the way of the modern world has made many Christians compromise their beliefs. It can be disheartening when you don't know who to trust.

The only suggestion I can give is to pray and believe that God can help you find a honest church. As Mark 9: 23 says, "All things are possible to those who believe."