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Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) 9 months, 23 days ago

Poll: Movie Wars Catwoman: Michelle Pfeiffer or Anne Hathaway (45 votes)

Michelle Pfeiffer 53%
Anne Hathaway 44%

Who is better?

#1 Edited by Emequious_Swerve (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

Miss Pfeiffer

Its hard to take Ann Hathaway seriously as a "bad ass"

#2 Posted by Fallschirmjager (14705 posts) - - Show Bio

Miss Pfeiffer

Its hard to take Ann Hathaway seriously as a "bad ass"

but you can take someone who says "Meow" out loud seriously?

#3 Posted by Dernman (14611 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither

#4 Edited by Emequious_Swerve (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

@emequious_swerve said:

Miss Pfeiffer

Its hard to take Ann Hathaway seriously as a "bad ass"

but you can take someone who says "Meow" out loud seriously?

In the sexual manner she says it in....yes. Pfeiffer played Catwoman as a person that was completely mentally unbalanced, which worked far better than karate-super thief IMO.

#5 Posted by Fallschirmjager (14705 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by Xwraith (14563 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm surprised Michelle has more votes.

#7 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5025 posts) - - Show Bio

Michelle Pfiefer> Horseface Ann

#8 Edited by silent_bomber (1499 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfeifer by a mile, Anne Hathaway did pretty much nothing but look pretty in her role she was like an ornament.

Except that Catwomen is a super-thief...

and golden age Catwoman was a mentally unbalanced woman who hit her head and had a complete personality change, and told people about how she had 9 lives, and counted them down in one story, and was often blonde.

#9 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know I like both equally.

#10 Posted by MatteoPG (1877 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfeifer by a mile, Anne Hathaway did pretty much nothing but look pretty in her role she was like an ornament.

Except that Catwomen is a super-thief...

and golden age Catwoman was a mentally unbalanced woman who hit her head and had a complete personality change, and told people about how she had 9 lives, and counted them down in one story, and was often blonde.

It is still golden age. I don't think we can hold on to those stories for current references. There is a lot of non-canon stuff back there.

Wait, before you think I'm completely disagreeing, I was just saying that I don't think that's why Burton did that. Or better, if he did it's because he doesn't know the comics well enough to know better than to delve into the golden age.

But I still don't think that Pfeiffer is worse than Hathaway. Neither of them is better. If we talk about how similar they are to the comic book character, then Hathaway no doubt, and that can't be denied, even we didn't like her performance. Still, this isn't the comic book character, but the movie character.

So I guess people didn't vote with the comic book in mind, and it actually does make sense. If you want the cat metaphor to extend to the character's actions and powers, beyond her behaviour, and want a very flamboyant classic villain, then you prefer Pfeiffer. If you are a fan of the modern, depowered brand of comic book transposed character, then you vote for Hathaway.

#11 Posted by Outside_85 (8012 posts) - - Show Bio

Hathaway, because I prefer Catwoman sane, capable, intelligent and free of a magical cat origins. Pfeifer may have looked like a great representative of an older version of Catwoman, but Selina has for a long time now not been that (like the Rich Cheeta was also abandoned because she was also just a nut in a suit).

(Dont understand the people who say Hathaway isn't pretty.)

#12 Posted by MatteoPG (1877 posts) - - Show Bio

(Dont understand the people who say Hathaway isn't pretty.)

De gustibus :)

#13 Edited by lifeofvibe (3407 posts) - - Show Bio

I cant stand ann hathaway as catwoman so i just voted the other lady

#14 Posted by viin (534 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfeifer was more like Catwoman. Hathaway was never called Catwoman in DKR if that matters. I like both versions though.

#15 Edited by Immortal777 (6683 posts) - - Show Bio

Julie Newmar is the only Catwoman so far I liked.

#16 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets go and ignore Julie Newmar and Lee Meriwheter.

Because Batman didnt existed before the 80s.

Yeesh, i mean, i know most of people only know Batman because of the movies and cartoons.

But there was Batman long before the 80s.

#17 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (9870 posts) - - Show Bio

Hallie Barry

#18 Posted by MatteoPG (1877 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Well, the thread is "movie" catwoman, while those two came from tv shows. I know there was a movie from the show, but it's more like a long episode. No disrespect for those ladies, they were amazing and fun :)

#19 Posted by MonsterStomp (15255 posts) - - Show Bio

Way sexier imo.

#20 Posted by silent_bomber (1499 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

@silent_bomber said:

Pfeifer by a mile, Anne Hathaway did pretty much nothing but look pretty in her role she was like an ornament.

Except that Catwomen is a super-thief...

and golden age Catwoman was a mentally unbalanced woman who hit her head and had a complete personality change, and told people about how she had 9 lives, and counted them down in one story, and was often blonde.

There is a lot of non-canon stuff back there.

As far as I'm concerned that way of working out "canon" is an invention of US comic book publishers

"Nothing you're bought previously matters! only stuff we're selling at the moment!"

Taking inspiration from original, primary works is just as valid as taking it from contemporary ones IMO

I think its quite cool that we have four sets of films each based on different era's and styles of Batman, every Batman fan of any age can pick and choose which Bat-film fits them best, how many other comic characters have that?

@matteopg said:

@silent_bomber said:

Pfeifer by a mile, Anne Hathaway did pretty much nothing but look pretty in her role she was like an ornament.

Except that Catwomen is a super-thief...

and golden age Catwoman was a mentally unbalanced woman who hit her head and had a complete personality change, and told people about how she had 9 lives, and counted them down in one story, and was often blonde.

I was just saying that I don't think that's why Burton did that. Or better, if he did it's because he doesn't know the comics well enough to know better than to delve into the golden age.

1. When you look at it, at least 70% of what's in Tim Burton movies is taken from Golden Age Batman, there's not really any argument here, scenes are often 1/1 recreations. Burton's films took very little from 80s Batman, mainly just outfit designs and stuff from the Killing Joke, there's probably as much, if not more stuff taken from Adam West's 60s show.

2. Its your opinion that Golden Age Batman is an unarguably inferior concept, I think Burton's movies' prove that Batman has always been a good character ever since inception, and that the old comics just needed some tidying up and streamlining.

#21 Edited by The_Titan_Lord (4517 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfeifer

#22 Posted by MatteoPG (1877 posts) - - Show Bio

@silent_bomber: sorry I pissed you off, I didn't mean to. You may be interested in knowing that Burton himself admitted to never having read any Batman and taking inspiration from secondary sources. So, no disrespect intended, I was just saying that if he delved in old time comic books, it couldn't have been a completely concious choice.

Also, I never said that golden age stuff is inferior, just a little out of date (with some exceptions). I would rather not have stories with superman spinning on himself and turning back time and such. But they were and always be great.

#23 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

@deathpoolthet1000: Well, the thread is "movie" catwoman, while those two came from tv shows. I know there was a movie from the show, but it's more like a long episode. No disrespect for those ladies, they were amazing and fun :)

Lee Meriwheter was in a movie, she got in the show but not as Catwoman, during a time the show had two actresses that play Catwoman, one playing her and the other dont.

#24 Edited by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Yeah I was going to put them in here but I just figured to do more of the modern ones and to stick with the movies. Partly because I'm doing this on my tablet and my tablet isn't that good.

#25 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@deathpoolthet1000: Yeah I was going to put them in here but I just figured to do more of the modern ones and to stick with the movies. Partly because I'm doing this on my tablet and my tablet isn't that good.

But Lee Meriwether was Catwoman in the 1966 movie.

Did you remember this?

That was in the movie, ok only some parts, but still.

Also Golden Age Batman was terribly more reallistic that Burton and Burton villains are nothing like the golden age villains.

The Joker was using make up and was pretty much Heath Ledger without the scars.

Catwoman said she had amnesia and only remember cats, she wasnt a cat lady that go powers from a Cat, even later we find out her so called origin was a lie, she became Catwoman because of her abusive husband.

Osawld only had problem for the fact he looked like a bird and was a thief, he was never raised by animals in the sewers and then try to became the king of the world.

#26 Edited by silent_bomber (1499 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg said:

@silent_bomber: sorry I pissed you off, I didn't mean to.

You didn't, that's just how I argue

@matteopg said:

@silent_bomber: You may be interested in knowing that Burton himself admitted to never having read any Batman and taking inspiration from secondary sources.

Actually he read and loved Killing Joke, and his recommendation is on the cover. Though it is true that he hasn't read that many comics, he mentions something about dyslexia making it difficult for him to read the panels in one interview.

Joker's bodyguard in the first movie was actually (most likely) from the Killing Joke, which I thought was pretty cool.

Tim Burton was the director anyway, not the writer, everything that happened in the first movie was written by Sam Hamm, except Joker killing Bruce's parents, and Vicki Vale being let into the Batcave, which were alterations made in his absence.

Similarities between Batman 1989 and Golden Age Batman -

This stuff is mainly taken from this website http://gothamalleys.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part-i.html

Batman's first appearance was on a rooftop with two thugs, his first case was amongst chemicals and had someone fall into a vat

All of this is from the first Batman appearance, Detective Comics 27 -

Other Stuff regarding Batman during the 40s

Golden Age Batman doesn't mind killing
Golden Age Batman has machine guns and a gun sight mounted on the Batplane
GAB drives girl in complete silence

Golden Age Joker

Golden Age Joker was originally a gangster before the fall, the idea of him being a patsy didn't come until the 80s

Golden Age Joker used Joker venom even right from his first appearance
Joker tries to use make-up to cover his weird face in his 1st appearance
Announces crime on tv, 1st appearance

Other stuff from 40s Joker stories -

Joker jokingly tries to stamp on Batman's hands, ends up falling off himself
Golden Age Joker dies, they remark that he's still grinning in death
GAJ is an Art fan

And these pictures aren't covering a long period of time, or a large number of comics, virtually all of these are taken during the first 10 odd appearances of the two characters, the only one that isn't is the Joker origin picture IIRC.

Anyway, more on topic, some Catwoman scans from one Golden Age story

Catwoman pretends to have 9 lives

But then she legitimately carries on surviving when she shouldn't and people really start to wonder.

The story ends with her being presumed dead, but with the mentioning that she has "one life left"

Catwoman said she had amnesia and only remember cats, she wasnt a cat lady that got powers from a Cat

Arguably neither did Pfeifer, the film is ambiguous on whether the cats actually do anything, or whether she simply survives the fall due to the shop parapets breaking her fall enough that she isn't killed, every time she "dies" something breaks her fall, and the gun at the end was laying around in water before Shreck found it and may be misfiring.

In the original script they also mentioned that she had taken martial arts lessons prior to being knocked out the window, and was good but had no confidence, but this was cut from the final film.

Also Catwoman in the comic isn't just an amnesiac who remembers cats, she is a woman who was average who hit her head and had a complete personality change, becoming a super villain, and using a cat motif due to remembering cats.

even later we find out her so called origin was a lie, she became Catwoman because of her abusive husband.

Yes, its called a retcon, its when a new writer craps all over the work of earlier writers in an attempt to make a name for themselves. In this case it was warranted, as her original origin was a bit "wacky" but when strictly discussing Golden Age characters being adapted, things which happened after the Golden Age are irrelevant (much like Joker originally being a gangster instead of a patsy).

Oswald only had problem for the fact he looked like a bird and was a thief, he was never raised by animals in the sewers and then try to became the king of the world.

Yeah his origin was completely changed, much like Zsasz in the Nolan movies (and arguably some other characters)

He doesn't try to become king of the world, he runs for mayor, this is seemingly a direct homage to an episode of the Adam West show called "Hizzoner the Penguin" where he did exactly the same thing (and the art gallery scene in the original Batman is a direct homage to the Adam West episode "Pop Goes The joker"), remember that the mainstream public during the 80s almost wholly associated Batman with the Adam West show, only after the huge success of the Burton movies did things turn around.

Eating fish, squawking, strapping rockets to Penguins backs, and novelty umbrella's that allow him to fly and such are all from Golden Age Batman though, so there are some accuracies to the comic there.

#27 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

The only one to call herself catwoman

#29 Posted by wildvine (8043 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked Anne myself.

#30 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (5942 posts) - - Show Bio

Hathaway.

#31 Posted by The Stegman (22751 posts) - - Show Bio

Hathaway was LEAGUES better than that Hot Topic reject that Tim Burton thought was Catwoman. All she did was die throughout the film.

#32 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: Haha that's why I didn't like her at first but as I watched it again she grew on me.

#33 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

anne hathway, plus, she's fine as hell !

#34 Edited by nerdork (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

Michelle Pfeiffer was a way beter Catwoman, IMO. But, that just had to do with how the characters were written. I think they both did an excellent job playing their parts. So, I guess it has nothing to do with the actresses, but rather that I like Tim Burtons Catwoman more than Christoper Nolan's. But, that's just me.

#35 Edited by The_Tree (7063 posts) - - Show Bio

Pfeiffer's Catwoman was terrible.

#36 Posted by Emequious_Swerve (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

Hathaway was LEAGUES better than that Hot Topic reject that Tim Burton thought was Catwoman. All she did was die throughout the film.

Pffft. At least Pfeiffer Catwoman fought Batman, Hathaway (not even calling herself Catwoman) didn't do anything

#37 Posted by nerdork (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

Hathaway was LEAGUES better than that Hot Topic reject that Tim Burton thought was Catwoman. All she did was die throughout the film.

Pffft. At least Pfeiffer Catwoman fought Batman, Hathaway (not even calling herself Catwoman) didn't do anything

QFT!

#38 Posted by Vance Astro (91067 posts) - - Show Bio

Anne Hathaway was a god awful Catwoman.

Moderator
#39 Edited by The Stegman (22751 posts) - - Show Bio

@emequious_swerve said:

@the_stegman said:

Hathaway was LEAGUES better than that Hot Topic reject that Tim Burton thought was Catwoman. All she did was die throughout the film.

Pffft. At least Pfeiffer Catwoman fought Batman, Hathaway (not even calling herself Catwoman) didn't do anything

By ''fight'' do you mean get b*tch slapped by him off a roof and...oh yeah, DIE? If so then, yeah, she /totally/ fought Batman.

#40 Posted by Emequious_Swerve (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

By ''fight'' do you mean get pimped slapped by him off a roof and...oh yeah, DIE? If so then, yeah, she /totally/ fought Batman.

Nah, you must have watched a different movie, I mean when she fights him with karate. Check the video below

Anne Hataway (not even called Catwoman) didn't even need to be in the film, seriously, she didn't really contribute anything and could of been absent and the movie wouldn't have been any different.

#41 Posted by The Stegman (22751 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

By ''fight'' do you mean get pimped slapped by him off a roof and...oh yeah, DIE? If so then, yeah, she /totally/ fought Batman.

Nah, you must have watched a different movie, I mean when she fights him with karate. Check the video below

Anne Hataway (not even called Catwoman) didn't even need to be in the film, seriously, she didn't really contribute anything and could of been absent and the movie wouldn't have been any different.

Nah, I watched the right film, she does a few kicks, he hits her ONCE, and she falls down. She then plays the "I'm a woman card" and Batman trips, she ''saves'' him and then he b*tchslaps her, as I said, off a building, that is not a fight.

Hathaway's Selina, and who cares if she's called ''Catwoman'' or not btw, actually felt like a cat burglar, she was smart, she was stealthy, she was cool under pressure. Pfeiffer was a weird schizo who didn't really have an intelligent bone in her body. Also, It felt like Hathaway could actually fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW2tMntp120

And you wanna talk about usefulness, what did Pfeiffer's Catwoman do? I'll tell you

1. She was killed by Max

2. She teamed up with Penguin...kinda

3. She was killed by Batman

4. She was killed by Penguin

5. She gets shot in the sewers by Max four times and manages to kill him with her ''nine lives?" powers

That's it. At least Hathaway's Selina killed Bane and helped evacuate the city.

#42 Posted by Gambit474 (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

I just can't take Hathaway seriously as Catwoman. Every time I see Anne I just can't help but think of Princess diaries and because of that I just couldn't take her seriously as playing a character like Selina. Bale did ok as batman,Hardy did good on bane,Ledger did great as joker,but Anne? Sorry but she didn't really impress me. Aside from being a burglar she just really didn't do anything that felt like Selina..like she just didn't have the spirit of the character

#43 Posted by Emequious_Swerve (1268 posts) - - Show Bio

.

Nah, I watched the right film, she does a few kicks, he hits her ONCE, and she falls down. She then plays the "I'm a woman card" and Batman trips, she ''saves'' him and then he b*tchslaps her, as I said, off a building, that is not a fight.

Hathaway's Selina, and who cares if she's called ''Catwoman'' or not btw, actually felt like a cat burglar, she was smart, she was stealthy, she was cool under pressure. Pfeiffer was a weird schizo who didn't really have an intelligent bone in her body. Also, It felt like Hathaway could actually fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW2tMntp120

And you wanna talk about usefulness, what did Pfeiffer's Catwoman do? I'll tell you

1. She was killed by Max

2. She teamed up with Penguin...kinda

3. She was killed by Batman

4. She was killed by Penguin

5. She gets shot in the sewers by Max four times and manages to kill him with her ''nine lives?" powers

That's it. At least Hathaway's Selina killed Bane and helped evacuate the city.

Yes, Pfeiffers Catwoman was kind of centric to the plot, and your argument of her fight is irrelevant, no matter how much you try to downplay it, it lasts a good twenty seconds and in that time I think Pfeiffer had more physical and emotional activity than Hathaway had in her whole performance.

The thing about Nolans movies, I actually think one of the weakest parts of it was the fight scenes. Other than the Bane fight in Rises, they all look like they are dancing. I mean, the choreographer teaches them the sequences like a dance routine but it always looks overly obvious. Like Batman takes a gunmans arm and swings it around and the guy discharges his weapon at a certain marked time is so blatant. It always looks so lame and funny. They should have been more fast paced. So with that said, Catwomans fight with Batman < Batmans fight against Batman

#44 Edited by silent_bomber (1499 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

1. She was killed by Max

2. She teamed up with Penguin...kinda

3. She was killed by Batman

4. She was killed by Penguin

5. She gets shot in the sewers by Max four times and manages to kill him with her ''nine lives?" powers

That's it. At least Hathaway's Selina killed Bane and helped evacuate the city.

  • Attacked by a goon
  • Acted downtrodden, got put down by her mother, dropped by her boyfriend (characterisation)
  • Discovered Shreck's plot
  • Got thrown out of a window
  • Went crazy/wrecked her home/became Catwoman
  • Blew up one of Shreck's largest stores
  • Fought Batman, tricked Batman, got beaten by Batman
  • Dated Bruce Wayne
  • Helped Penguin in his plot to frame Batman/Fought Batman again
  • Dropped through a Greenhouse by Penguin
  • Went to a Ball/Discovered Batman's identity
  • Got her revenge on Shreck

Also I just thought of another similarity, Golden Age Catwoman had romantic interests in Batman and Bruce separately without knowing they were the same person (and was more into Bruce too).

#45 Posted by TDK_1997 (14418 posts) - - Show Bio

Hathaway.

#46 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

@emequious_swerve: That's not true. Anne's Catwoman did a lot of things in fact without her Bane would've never broke Batman's back. Also she bankrupted Bruce Wayne basically. Took out two of those tank things at the end. Brought Bruce back out into the world. Got Lucius Fox and Bruce out of a jail. Kidnapped the Mayor or someone. Her and Batman may not of had a full out physical fight but they had a fun little competition thing. Their dialogue was really fun too.

#47 Posted by jphulk26 (1308 posts) - - Show Bio

I´D RATHER bang michelle in a cat suit so by default she wins.

#48 Edited by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

@jphulk26: hahaha that's some good logic right there.

#49 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

Anne Hathaway, easily.

#50 Edited by silent_bomber (1499 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42 said:

@emequious_swerve: That's not true. Anne's Catwoman did a lot of things in fact without her Bane would've never broke Batman's back. Also she bankrupted Bruce Wayne basically. Took out two of those tank things at the end. Brought Bruce back out into the world. Got Lucius Fox and Bruce out of a jail. Kidnapped the Mayor or someone. Her and Batman may not of had a full out physical fight but they had a fun little competition thing. Their dialogue was really fun too.

Quite interesting when you look at it all laid out like that, Catwoman was basically just used as a plot device to fill in holes.