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#1 Edited by Faymousinus (1259 posts) - - Show Bio

This is probably gonna be one of my last posts, but before I call it.

I've always wondered who others would put as the top 10 most evil characters in Star Wars.

I have my own list, but I would like to hear you guys' opinions. I'll maybe post mine later.

#2 Edited by ShootingNova (16300 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious, Darth Traya, Abeloth, Vitiate, The Son, Darth Tenebrous (?), Darth Andeddu (?), Exar Kun (?), Naga Sadow (?), and a few of the TOR Sith Lords.

Most of these are up for dispute.

Online
#3 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

Jar Jar Binks.

/thread.

#4 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24137 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious, Darth Traya, Abeloth, Vitiate, The Son, Darth Tenebrous (?), Darth Andeddu (?), Exar Kun (?), Naga Sadow (?), and a few of the TOR Sith Lords.

Most of these are up for dispute.

I think Darth Scabrous is a strong contender for that title as well.

#5 Posted by ShootingNova (16300 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

Just realized - I don't actually like any characters that could be considered pure evil, or very close to it.

#7 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (17884 posts) - - Show Bio

Palpatine. Not sure if I can come up with a list but he would be at the top for sure.

#8 Edited by Bruxae (13503 posts) - - Show Bio

Yoda. Forcing everyone into a life of blueballs.

#9 Edited by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

Yoda. Forcing everyone into a life of blueballs.

He wasn't the founder of the Jedi Order though. That dumb tenant was written long before Yoda's time.

#10 Edited by The_Deathstroker (6970 posts) - - Show Bio

R2 D2

#11 Edited by Bruxae (13503 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@bruxae said:

Yoda. Forcing everyone into a life of blueballs.

He wasn't the founder of the Jedi Order though. That dumb tenant was written long before Yoda's time.

I know that, but at the point in time where the movies are he seems like the un-official "leader". Who founded the Jedi Order anyway? I never knew, mostly focused on the Sith cause I am an evil beatch.

#12 Edited by Nefarious (19761 posts) - - Show Bio

Jabba the Hutt.

#13 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@jaken7 said:

@bruxae said:

Yoda. Forcing everyone into a life of blueballs.

He wasn't the founder of the Jedi Order though. That dumb tenant was written long before Yoda's time.

I know that, but at the point in time where the movies are he seems like the un-official "leader". Who founded the Jedi Order anyway? I never knew, mostly focused on the Sith cause I am an evil beatch.

He was the Grand Master, but even a Grand Master must follow the Order's code to a t. Not one specific person, really. The very first dudes to form the Jedi Order were Rajivari, Garon Jard, Cala Brin and Ters Sendon (had to look 'em up). Those guys were all part of the predecessor group known as the Je'daii Order. The Jedi Order's roots can be directly traced back over 35,000 years before the movies, straight to the dumb sky pyramids, the Tho Yor.

You can read about it here. It's kind of stupid. Although it's all non-canon now anyways. xD

#14 Edited by DoctorXander (1079 posts) - - Show Bio

Palpatine number one, don't know about the others but they would include the Sith Emperor, Darth Malak, Karness Muur, Exar Kun, the Son, Darth Plagiues, and Darth Bane

#15 Posted by Zapan87 (129 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Palpatine and Vitiate, though I think the latter is even more evil and insane (heck, he wanted to consume the whole galaxy).

#16 Edited by Hayzuse (23 posts) - - Show Bio

Evil, insane, or both?

I'm going to say Darth Bane for 1 reason: If you were to take everything that is the Sith and that is the Dark side, and formed a being out of that - you would have Darth Bane.

It's hard for me to include anyone who was in the Old Republic, because they didnt understand what true evil/darkness was.

#17 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@bruxae said:

@jaken7 said:

@bruxae said:

Yoda. Forcing everyone into a life of blueballs.

He wasn't the founder of the Jedi Order though. That dumb tenant was written long before Yoda's time.

I know that, but at the point in time where the movies are he seems like the un-official "leader". Who founded the Jedi Order anyway? I never knew, mostly focused on the Sith cause I am an evil beatch.

He was the Grand Master, but even a Grand Master must follow the Order's code to a t. Not one specific person, really. The very first dudes to form the Jedi Order were Rajivari, Garon Jard, Cala Brin and Ters Sendon (had to look 'em up). Those guys were all part of the predecessor group known as the Je'daii Order. The Jedi Order's roots can be directly traced back over 35,000 years before the movies, straight to the dumb sky pyramids, the Tho Yor.

You can read about it here. It's kind of stupid. Although it's all non-canon now anyways. xD

Dawn of the Jedi is actually very interesting, and it shows a very steady, realistic and insightful transition from the collective of Force Users (Je'daii) to the division of light and dark (Jedi and Sith).

But hey, if ya want to call something stupid before reading it, feel free.

#18 Edited by Dragonborn_CT (21885 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Nihil, Tenebrae/Lord Vitiate and the Son from Clone Wars come to mind. Those were the Dark Side incarnated.

#19 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I think the concepts presented in Dawn of the Jedi are dumb. I didn't say anything about the quality of the actual story, Sally Sensitive.

#20 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: The concepts aren't really all that stupid. It makes a lot of sense when you read it. That's all I'm saying.

#21 Edited by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I don't really see what's wrong with them to be honest. Do you just dislike the concept of pyramid-like structures flying? They actually turn into temples which I find cool, but it's whatever.

#23 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: If you had told Babby Jake back in '95 when he watched Star Wars for the first time, that this had all started thousands of years ago when magical flying space pyramids visited a bunch of different planets and abducted its inhabitants, he would've thrown his peas at you. It's a dumb, silly idea. You can't tell me it fits in with the rest of the Star Wars mythos. It's just plain weird. How can you not see that?

#24 Edited by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: 1. Didn't abduct them, just invited them to a planet where all Force sensitives can live together and prosper. Most I believe were more than willing to go.

2. Depends on how openly you think. I don't see it as out of the question. The Force has always worked in "mysterious ways" and appears to actively guide events and beings around the entire galaxy. If the Force decided that it wanted to bring beings that are strong in the Force together, that one day they could become something much more, then I say "great, makes sense". Using pyramid-like structures which would later act as temples of knowledge across many fields, like science, art and so on doesn't seem dumb to me. I dunno. Crazy sh*t happens in Star Wars. Probably more than I personally know of. It's a galaxy with mystical foundations, and the Dawn of the Jedi is nothing else if not mystical.

Anyway, this is yet another Star Wars debate/discussion I'm happy to bow out of early. I don't know why but it seems like every other thread, someone is talking about how something I like is uninteresting/weak/stupid ect and I don't see the use in trying to challenge it every time I see it. I guess Star Wars fans just need something to complain about once in a while.

#25 Edited by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Sidious, Darth Traya, Abeloth, Vitiate, The Son, Darth Tenebrous (?), Darth Andeddu (?), Exar Kun (?), Naga Sadow (?), and a few of the TOR Sith Lords.

Most of these are up for dispute.

I have a hard time seeing Traya as evil.

Moderator
#26 Edited by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: People can have different opinions than you. Don't take someone's dislike for something you like as a personal challenge. If you want to have a discussion about it, fine. But don't act insulted or offended. It's not like you haven't ever complained about anything. I think it's REALLY dumb. Oh well.

#27 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Of course people can have different opinions to me. It's just that I can't remember the last time I discussed something positive with someone about Star Wars. All I hear about nowadays is what or who sucks for what reasons. And not that I took it as a personal attack, it's just that most things I have looked into regarding the EU when I first started posting about Star Wars on this site have received an overwhelming amount of criticism. It's just boring to read all the time.

I can safely say I don't complain that much about anything, and certainly don't start calling stuff dumb, unless it's a place where criticisms are directly asked for.

#28 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Kreia is pretty fuggin' evil. She slips all of her Dark Side teachings behind this facade of neutrality. Her machinations seep into the Exile's ears with such influence. She dissuades any doubt in her alignment by making you think you're the one in the wrong. That you're the one that should be doubted. She pretends as if she's this wise walker of both paths, not dissimilar to Revan. But really, she's more evil than your typical Sith Lord.

#29 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Does it make you feel good to pretend you're better than me? Better than everyone else here? C'mon.

#30 Posted by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@jedixman: Kreia is pretty fuggin' evil. She slips all of her Dark Side teachings behind this facade of neutrality. Her machinations seep into the Exile's ears with such influence. She dissuades any doubt in her alignment by making you think you're the one in the wrong. That you're the one that should be doubted. She pretends as if she's this wise walker of both paths, not dissimilar to Revan. But really, she's more evil than your typical Sith Lord.

True, but she doesn't have a lust for power. She seeks to destroy the Force itself.

... which I suppose is rather evil, come to think of it.

Moderator
#31 Posted by Ostyo (7496 posts) - - Show Bio

Max Rebo

#32 Posted by Xwraith (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

@ostyo said:

Max Rebo

He's always been a favorite of mine. No joke.

#33 Edited by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Oh? You mean the lifeforce that constitutes the universe? The thing found in every living being? She just wants to destroy that? Big whoop. xD

But yeah, that's why I think she's more evil than your typical baddie with a power-hungry god complex.

#34 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: I don't think I'm any better than anyone.

#35 Edited by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

On-topic though - Mouse Droid has to be close.

#36 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Then stop acting as if you're this lone swell caught up in a sea of cynicism. There are plenty of positive discussions to be had. Don't pretend like you're just this innocent little fella who wubs Star Wars, and we're the big meanies sh%thing on everything. It's pathetic.

#37 Posted by Ostyo (7496 posts) - - Show Bio

@xwraith: He's truly pure evil, makes the others look like kittens.

#38 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: You take that back! Mouse Droid is a paragon of morality. He makes Yoda look like Sidious.

#39 Posted by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaken7 said:

@jedixman: Oh? You mean the lifeforce that constitutes the universe? The thing found in every living being? She just wants to destroy that? Big whoop. xD

But yeah, that's why I think she's more evil than your typical baddie with a power-hungry god complex.

It does make her one of, if not the, most interesting / unique Sith Lord in Star Wars.

Moderator
#40 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Oh, for sure! Probably the most well written character in all of KOTOR to be honest.

#41 Edited by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@i_like_swords: Then stop acting as if you're this lone swell caught up in a sea of cynicism. There are plenty of positive discussions to be had. Don't pretend like you're just this innocent little fella who wubs Star Wars, and we're the big meanies sh%thing on everything. It's pathetic.

I'm not really acting like that at all. I've admitted to plenty of things I've done wrong in debates in the past. I'm just expressing how I personally view debates/discussions regarding Star Wars at the moment. But you're honestly just not very pleasant to talk to, atm anyway, so I'll leave you to it.

#42 Posted by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@jedixman: Oh, for sure! Probably the most well written character in all of KOTOR to be honest.

KOTOR II, in general, was superior to the first KOTOR in every way, in my opinion. I love KOTOR, but - when you step back and take a good look - KOTOR II is just... better. Better story, better characters, better gameplay, better dialogue... just better.

Moderator
#43 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: It would have been all those things if Obsidian wasn't given a year to work on it, and the game wasn't rushed out the door.

Better story? No. KOTOR still has the greatest redemption story and greatest plot twist in sci-fi. KOTOR II would've had a better story if Obsidian was able to do what they wanted. They saw KOTOR as this retrospective on the Jedi Order. So they really wanted KOTOR II to be the Sith's turn. They got partway there, as you can see elements from their original idea, but it was still just another redemption story. Don't even get me started on that "ending."

Better characters? To a point. A lot of your squad are returning characters though (Canderous, HK, T3). But as far as newer characters go, I'd say that they are more interesting than KOTOR, sure. I certainly prefer Atton to Carth in both personality and back story. Oh, and basically rebuilding the Jedi Order by converting your whole crew to Jedi was pretty cool.

Better gameplay? O_o It's the exact same.

Better dialogue? You could technically say that, but it's really just thanks to Kreia.

#44 Posted by JediXMan (30344 posts) - - Show Bio
@jaken7 said:

@jedixman: It would have been all those things if Obsidian wasn't given a year to work on it, and the game wasn't rushed out the door.

Better story? No. KOTOR still has the greatest redemption story and greatest plot twist in sci-fi. KOTOR II would've had a better story if Obsidian was able to do what they wanted. They saw KOTOR as this retrospective on the Jedi Order. So they really wanted KOTOR II to be the Sith's turn. They got partway there, as you can see elements from their original idea, but it was still just another redemption story. Don't even get me started on that "ending."

And all of Star Wars revolves around "redemption" plotlines. It's unoriginal; just a retelling of Anakin's fall / redemption and Ulic's fall / redemption.

KOTOR II is about Sith Lord in-fighting, while the Jedi are nowhere to be found. Sith Lords without power fantasies, but driven by instinct, anger, and vengeance. Killing the Jedi was an afterthought.

Malak is just a rip-off of Vader without the redemption. The fact that you basically fly a Millennium Falcon is quite unoriginal. I think the originality thing is the part that I like.

Let's also not forget the atmosphere. KOTOR II has this bleakness to it, where the Jedi are gone.

Also... no Tatooine. Any game that doesn't make me go to that dustball gets bonus points.

@jaken7 said:

Better characters? To a point. A lot of your squad are returning characters though (Canderous, HK, T3). But as far as newer characters go, I'd say that they are more interesting than KOTOR, sure. I certainly prefer Atton to Carth in both personality and back story. Oh, and basically rebuilding the Jedi Order by converting your whole crew to Jedi was pretty cool.

The Jedi converting was an awesome aspect. I loved that part.

Mira, Visas, and even Brianne were really interesting characters. And let's not forget the utterly unique Sith Lords.

@jaken7 said:

Better gameplay? O_o It's the exact same.

Better dialogue? You could technically say that, but it's really just thanks to Kreia.

Not quite. It feels more fluid, there is more variety in some of the animations, and you have access to more interesting Force powers. The Force powers themselves, too, look better. So maybe this is a graphical thing for me (and the robes - the robes look better, too). But, don't forget the ability to change Lightsaber forms - that was a nice addition.

Everyone's dialogue was better. KOTOR I had stiff dialogue, with mostly cardboard characters (not even talking about the party members, right now).

Moderator
#45 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24137 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm fairly disappointed in everyone in this thread. Everyone.

How can we have a debate on who's the most evil Star Wars characters, and NO ONE mentions Cronal, AKA Black Hole?

This guy had Luke second guessing his philosophical views of the Universe, and only wants destruction; even ruling the Universe goes against the One Truth. He wants to keep destroying everything in the Univesre until the inevitable heat death of it.

"Only power is real, and the only real power is the power to destroy. Existence is fleeting. Destruction is eternal."

-Black Hole - after giving us one of the most bone-chilling monologues in fiction

Note: If you haven't read SoM you're a awful person, and you should feel bad.

#46 Posted by i_like_swords (13991 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: He seems pretty cool.. and powerful. How come I never hear of this interesting chap in top 10 discussions and stuff?

#47 Edited by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Revan's was the best in my opinion. Anakin and even Dooku had a better fall, but Revan had the best redemption.

Yes, but it was nowhere near what Obsidian originally envisioned, and it still came off as sloppy and haphazardly put together.

The only thing similar about Malak and Vader is that they have cybernetics on their face. Vader was a lap dog. Malak tried to kill his master and rule by himself. Vader focused on controlling the empire. Malak focused on rebuilding the Sith and relied on ancient resources like the Star Forge. Vader was calculating and ruthless. Malak was overly-ambitous and flamboyant. What originality? Did you forget you also fly around in the Ebon Hawk in KOTOR II?

And KOTOR's atmosphere was more rich and vibrant. A wondrous galaxy just begging for exploration. It's clearly two different tones set consciously by the designers. Neither is better than the other.

But Tatooine in KOTOR gave us HK-47, an extensive look at Sand People culture, and a fight with a Krayt Dragon!

Agreed.

They were, but I hated the fact that some of the most interesting characters were locked behind a gender barrier and an alignment barrier. The Sith Lord Triumvirate was one of the most fascinating things I've seen from Star Wars.

It recycled all the same assets. It may just run smoother for you. That's not a gameplay issue. And yes, the different lightsaber forms were cool, but they were rather pointless.

I honestly can't think of any significantly better dialogue exchanges besides Kreia's. Maybe Goto/GO-TO's? The dialogue with each of the Jedi Masters was pretty exceptional. Most of the other dialogue is just the same bleeps and blurps and whirls and hisses (simulating an alien language) that was in the first game. And the first game had great dialogue from characters like Bastila, HK- 47, Canderous Ordo, etc.

#48 Posted by JakeN7 (11762 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I don't even know what "SoM" is supposed to be. Unless you're talking about Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and you just don't know acronyms. Mwahahaha!

#49 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24137 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@dccomicsrule2011: He seems pretty cool.. and powerful. How come I never hear of this interesting chap in top 10 discussions and stuff?

Because he more of a prep orientated villain.Think Grand Admiral Thrawn with the power of the Force.

Seriously though, I think this dude may be even more evil then Palpatine, at least the Emperor would still allow life to live in the Empire, Cronal on the other hand? He wants to destroy all life, everything in the universe.

Here is what Cronal had to say about Palpatine and Darth Vader:

Palpatine had been a fool. He had thought he could make the Dark serve him, instead of the opposite. In the days of the Old Republic, before he had revealed his Sith identity, Palpatine literally could not fail.

Every blind flailing gesture of every Jedi who'd set himself against him had turned to his advantage, and even the sheerest accidents of fortune had served his goal... because that goal had been the destruction of the Jedi Order, and the death of the Republic. He'd served the Dark unknowingly, all the while believing that the Dark was only a means to an end, a tool to help him destroy his enemies and clear his path to absolute power.

What he'd never understood was that destruction was his power. As soon as he'd turned his will to rulership, to building instead of destroying, he had forsaken the Way of the Dark... and everything had begun to go wrong for him. Where before he could not fail, now he'd had no chance of succeeding, because when you turn your back on the Dark, the Dark turns its back on you.

Only days after the Battle of Yavin, Cronal had cast his mind deep into the void, seeking the future of the young Rebel pilot who had destroyed the Death Star, and had found him as an older, more seasoned man, dressed in dark robes-and bearing a lightsaber. Kneeling before the Emperor, to swear his allegiance to the dark side.My fate... will be the same as my fathers. Which was when Cronal finally understood who Darth Vader was, and saw the terrible flaw that would bring the Order of the Sith to its ultimate destruction.

A destruction that Cronal not only was determined to survive, but was certain he could transform into an eternal victory for the Dark. And, not incidentally, eternal life for himself. Near to eternal, anyway; as long as a single living thing struggled and suffered and fed the Dark with killing and dying, Cronal would be here. His ultimate sacrifice to the Dark would be the survival of his consciousness until the heat death of the Universe... when he would be joined forever with the final oblivion of all that had ever been. All that will ever be. He would be the last. Slowly, subtly, through the months and years from Yavin to Endor, Cronal had served his vision. A delicate balance had had to be meticulously maintained, to navigate the intricacies of the relation-ship between Palpatine and Vader... to inculcate a rivalry with the half-mechanical terrort hat Palpatine had elevated to the rank of Lord of the Sith.

For all his undoubted physical power, Vader had never been more than a blunt instrument, with no real understanding of the truth of the Dark, nor of the uses of real power. He had been, all in all, only a thug with a lightsaber... and, as it proved, a weak hearted, emotionally crippled, impulsively treasonous thug at that.

- Excerpt from Shadows of Mindor

#50 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24137 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@dccomicsrule2011: I don't even know what "SoM" is supposed to be. Unless you're talking about Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and you just don't know acronyms. Mwahahaha!

Nope. I'm talking about this:

Possibly my all-time favorite Star Wars book.