• 60 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by RogueShadow (10778 posts) - - Show Bio

1 - Which fighting force is the current most elite fighting force in the world? SAS, Delta, Israeli Commandos etc

2 - Which fighting force is the most elite fighting force in history? Spartans, Samurai etc

The generally greatest warriors, the deadliest & the most efficient.

#2 Posted by KingOfAsh (3611 posts) - - Show Bio

In history, Mongolians, Aztecs, Germans, Macedonians

Today...Spetznaz?

#3 Posted by Fallschirmjager (17605 posts) - - Show Bio

1. F-22 Raptor squadrons.

2. Alexander's Army, Hannibal Barca's Army, Napoleon's Grande Armee, Wehrmacht...etc (this list could go on for a long time)

#4 Posted by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

Here I am!

#5 Posted by Juiceboks (9084 posts) - - Show Bio

Israeli Commandos, Navy Seals, Green Berets, British Special Air Service, and Spetsnaz are all top tier. But if I had to choose one..I'd probably go with the SAS.

#6 Posted by RogueShadow (10778 posts) - - Show Bio

Israeli Commandos, Navy Seals, Green Berets, British Special Air Service, and Spetsnaz are all top tier. But if I had to choose one..I'd probably go with the SAS.

I agree.

#7 Edited by Pierpat (2690 posts) - - Show Bio

Today: SaS

History: Carthage's sacred Band

#8 Posted by PowerHerc (84035 posts) - - Show Bio

Delta Force.

#9 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

1 - The most elite clandestine operations unit around today is probably one we never have or ever will hear of.

Of the ones we know of the SAS, Kidon, and the CIA's SOG probably top the list.

2 - The top current special forces are far superior to any historical fighters, with our much more advanced understanding of warfare as well as the human mind and body, the training current high level special forces receive is much more comprehensive and effective than that received by any historical warrior. Our current special forces are physically stronger, faster and have more endurance, they also have better tactical and strategic training, no historical combatant can match their combination of strength and smarts.

#10 Edited by Pyrogram (38549 posts) - - Show Bio

1 - The most elite clandestine operations unit around today is probably one we never have or ever will hear of.

Of the ones we know of the SAS, Kidon, and the CIA's SOG probably top the list.

2 - The top current special forces are far superior to any historical fighters, with our much more advanced understanding of warfare as well as the human mind and body, the training current high level special forces receive is much more comprehensive and effective than that received by any historical warrior. Our current special forces are physically stronger, faster and have more endurance, they also have better tactical and strategic training, no historical combatant can match their combination of strength and smarts.

So much pretension in that post I laughed. He meant historically. Not "comparably" LOL

Online
#11 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@totalbalance said:

1 - The most elite clandestine operations unit around today is probably one we never have or ever will hear of.

Of the ones we know of the SAS, Kidon, and the CIA's SOG probably top the list.

2 - The top current special forces are far superior to any historical fighters, with our much more advanced understanding of warfare as well as the human mind and body, the training current high level special forces receive is much more comprehensive and effective than that received by any historical warrior. Our current special forces are physically stronger, faster and have more endurance, they also have better tactical and strategic training, no historical combatant can match their combination of strength and smarts.

So much pretension in that post I laughed. He meant historically. Not "comparably" LOL

Hence the superior training received by tier one special forces makes them the most elite warriors in history, I am not talking about if they were to fight who would win, simply the fact that the training received today makes them the most elite warriors in history, more elite than the Sacred Band of Thebes, Samurai, Spartans or whomever from times past.

#12 Edited by Pyrogram (38549 posts) - - Show Bio

@totalbalance: Yeah....You don't understand the question. Try being less "smart" and simply answering the question.

IMO the Sacred Band of Thebes are the best historic force.

Online
#13 Posted by Amaranth (8210 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by MaccyD (4081 posts) - - Show Bio

@totalbalance: You know Spartans and some other elite forces were trained from birth and adapted to be nothing but warriours. No modern force would legally be able to attain that physical standard without breaking human rights/U.N law.

Modern: The Irish Rangers are often underestimated. They are one of the best spec ops in the world simply due to Ireland has too much budget for such a small force so they concetrated on quality over quantity.

Historical: Roman infantry for organisation and training. They triumphed over other elite forces of the day including Spartans and Scared Band. Also for mentality, I'd chose Mamluks, since they knew little outside of war and battle. They are also one of the only major military elite forces to stage a successful coup/takeover that'd last for a few centuries. They also fought back the superior forces of Crusaders and Mongols successfully.

#15 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

@totalbalance: You know Spartans and some other elite forces were trained from birth and adapted to be nothing but warriours. No modern force would legally be able to attain that physical standard without breaking human rights/U.N law.

Modern: The Irish Rangers are often underestimated. They are one of the best spec ops in the world simply due to Ireland has too much budget for such a small force so they concetrated on quality over quantity.

Historical: Roman infantry for organisation and training. They triumphed over other elite forces of the day including Spartans and Scared Band. Also for mentality, I'd chose Mamluks, since they knew little outside of war and battle. They are also one of the only major military elite forces to stage a successful coup/takeover that'd last for a few centuries. They also fought back the superior forces of Crusaders and Mongols successfully.

They had inferior diet, living conditions and training regimes than the warriors of today, as such they would be physically inferior despite physical training for a longer period. Not to mention, historical forces never had such a broad range of training such as how to perform field medicine on themselves. " In addition, recruits are shot and forced to perform field surgery on themselves" (Wiki Article)

#16 Edited by MaccyD (4081 posts) - - Show Bio

@totalbalance: You're forgetting the broad range of training would differ for a time period. Elites of the past are more used to fighting dozens of people on a battlefield at once while modern units are trained for mainly stealth. For example sending a SAS with a knife against a wall of phalanxes would probably prove fatal.

You have to remember mentality as well. Often modern and WW2 soldiers would pine for home, most historical elites never knew life outside the battlefield. No modern units have been used to creating their own bedding and hunting for their own food since childhood. Spartans had pain and hunger tolerance since childhood.

As for diet, their diet wasn't as inferior as you'd expect, being more natural-based than modern day.

#17 Posted by mikex20 (2769 posts) - - Show Bio

Israeli Commandos or Navy SEALS, and I'm pretty sure they could take down the Spartans or Alexander's Army.

#18 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd said:

@totalbalance: You're forgetting the broad range of training would differ for a time period. Elites of the past are more used to fighting dozens of people on a battlefield at once while modern units are trained for mainly stealth. For example sending a SAS with a knife against a wall of phalanxes would probably prove fatal.

You have to remember mentality as well. Often modern and WW2 soldiers would pine for home, most historical elites never knew life outside the battlefield. No modern units have been used to creating their own bedding and hunting for their own food since childhood. Spartans had pain and hunger tolerance since childhood.

As for diet, their diet wasn't as inferior as you'd expect, being more natural-based than modern day.

If you read up on forces such as the Kaibiles or such, the soldiers receive training to prepare them psychologically so that they don't have things like homesickness affecting their performance. They also have thorough training on how to survive in harsh environments which does include creating their own bedding and scavenging for what food they can find.

I don't think a Spartan with a knife would do any better against a Phalanx, but if you gave some neutral skill weapon like a knife or baseball bat to ten Spartans and ten SAS operators, I would put money on the SAS winning practically every time.

Organic/natural food has been shown to be no more nutritious than modified food products If I remember correctly.

#19 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20257 posts) - - Show Bio

1. F-22 Raptor squadrons.

2. Alexander's Army, Hannibal Barca's Army, Napoleon's Grande Armee, Wehrmacht...etc (this list could go on for a long time)

Horatio Nelson and his forces kicked Napoleon's ass so many times it's not even funny. Not to mention in the battle Nelson only had one eye and one arm and still whupped their forces.

#20 Posted by HeckTate (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

I second the CIA's SAD/SOG forces. They're essentially a cross between highly trained tactical operatives and intelligence gathering operatives who the CIA deploys in other countries to "gather intelligence" (spy). They're meant to be self-sufficient in their missions (no calling base for orders), the CIA can deny their existence if their identities are compromised, and their number one priority is "don't let anyone know who you really are or what your mission is." They have next to no accountability at all, so long as it doesn't come back to bite the US government in the as$.

#21 Edited by Fallschirmjager (17605 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@fallschirmjager said:

1. F-22 Raptor squadrons.

2. Alexander's Army, Hannibal Barca's Army, Napoleon's Grande Armee, Wehrmacht...etc (this list could go on for a long time)

Horatio Nelson and his forces kicked Napoleon's ass so many times it's not even funny. Not to mention in the battle Nelson only had one eye and one arm and still whupped their forces.

Yeah. Nope.

Napoleon barely fought in Spain. And when he did, he crushed.

And by the time of Waterloo the best of the Armee was long dead. The height of their power was Circa 1805-1810.

And Prussia had more forces present at the battle did Horatio did

Learn some history. Napoleon fought in something like 60 pitched battles and won 50 of them.

#22 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7872 posts) - - Show Bio

The best in the world are guys that civilians don't know about and don't exist.

Of ones that are rumored? Combat Applications Group of the US Army combines the intelligence gathering and independance of the CIA with the breaching/HRT/HVT elimination of the military.

Most allied nations cross train in top tier units. I've TDY'd to Israel and England to work with the Commandos and SAS, respectively, in cross training.

You'd be surprised how often forces are dismissed as less "elite" by the public. Army Rangers and Green Berets are two from the US that come to mind. Often considered "less" than something like Navy SEALs because they don't get the press. Australia has SUPERB Operators, as does Canada and Poland.

#23 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20257 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@fallschirmjager said:

1. F-22 Raptor squadrons.

2. Alexander's Army, Hannibal Barca's Army, Napoleon's Grande Armee, Wehrmacht...etc (this list could go on for a long time)

Horatio Nelson and his forces kicked Napoleon's ass so many times it's not even funny. Not to mention in the battle Nelson only had one eye and one arm and still whupped their forces.

Yeah. Nope.

Napoleon barely fought in Spain. And when he did, he crushed.

And by the time of Waterloo the best of the Armee was long dead. The height of their power was Circa 1805-1810.

And Prussia had more forces present at the battle did Horatio did

Learn some history. Napoleon fought in something like 60 pitched battles and won 50 of them.

Uh...yeah. Nelson kicked Napoleon's ass numerous times. In fact, I'll even present the information to you in Ben Thompson's....enchanting words (source: BADASS).

And again.

#24 Edited by Fallschirmjager (17605 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: So you know nothing about history and linking someone who also knows nothing about history?

The commander at the Battle of the Nile was Francois-Paul Brueys d'Aigalliers and the commander of the french fleet at Trafalgar was Pierre-Charles Villenueve.

Napoleon wasn't even in political power at the time The Battle of the Nile. France was still a Republic at the time.

Moreover. I said "Grande ARMEE". Both examples you list are NAVAL BATTLES.

Lets just not even continue this conversation.

#25 Edited by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Ummm, Nelson was a naval commander and Napoleon was a land commander, hence "Grande Armee" not "Grande Marine". Napoleon never faced Horatio Nelson in battle since Nelson commanded ships while Napoleon commanded land forces. Nelson was a fantastic naval commander who dealt numerous blows to to the french navy BUT he never actually did any real fighting against the Grande Armee itself.

eh, chap above me got to the punch quicker.

#26 Posted by Fallschirmjager (17605 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Ummm, Nelson was a naval commander and Napoleon was a land commander, hence "Grande Armee" not "Grande Marine". Napoleon never faced Horatio Nelson in battle since Nelson commanded ships while Napoleon commanded land forces. Nelson was a fantastic naval commander who dealt numerous blows to to the french navy BUT he never actually did any real fighting against the Grande Armee itself.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

#27 Edited by Harrup (93 posts) - - Show Bio

1. SBS (royal marines)

2. The Mongols. Bunch of nomadic tribes conquer the 2nd largest empire the world has ever seen.

#28 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20257 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Ummm, Nelson was a naval commander and Napoleon was a land commander, hence "Grande Armee" not "Grande Marine". Napoleon never faced Horatio Nelson in battle since Nelson commanded ships while Napoleon commanded land forces. Nelson was a fantastic naval commander who dealt numerous blows to to the french navy BUT he never actually did any real fighting against the Grande Armee itself.

eh, chap above me got to the punch quicker.

I never said he fought the Grand Armee, although me highlighting it was a bit misleading. I said he kicked Napoleon's ass numerous time (or at least his forces). I was using that to support how I think Nelson was better than Bonaparte.

#29 Posted by MaccyD (4081 posts) - - Show Bio

@totalbalance: About the natural food, think it's only a theory, but natural foods tend to correspond better to different blood groups. It's also is another reason why cancer seems to be more prevalent nowadays than in the past.

#30 Edited by Fallschirmjager (17605 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Napoleon wasn't a naval commander. They weren't his forces. Nelson never kicked his ass because they never fought.

They aren't comparable because they did different things. Napoleon commanded ground forces, Nelson commanded naval ones.

Moreever, Napoleon revolutionized warfare, government, and trade. Nelson didn't do anything of that. He was just good at what he did.

#31 Edited by MaccyD (4081 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: Just thought I'd add logistics to his accomplishments.... ;)

#32 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20257 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Napoleon wasn't a naval commander. They weren't his forces. Nelson never kicked his ass because they never fought.

They aren't comparable because they did different things. Napoleon commanded ground forces, Nelson commanded naval ones.

Moreever, Napoleon revolutionized warfare, government, and trade. Nelson didn't do anything of that. He was just good at what he did.

Yes but he was responsible for rebuilding the forces yes?

#33 Edited by Fallschirmjager (17605 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Once he took over as Emperor of France, sure he would have been able to devote sources to building up anything. But Nelson wasn't in charge of building the British Navy either. That would have been George the III who was the King of Britain at the time (or possibly Parliment, if they had one at the time). Nelson was just an Admiral.

@maccyd:

Yeah. The Corps system

pretty much is the ancestor to the modern military layout

#34 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

I won't say they're the best, but the coolest to me will always be the samurai

#35 Posted by Vance Astro (91237 posts) - - Show Bio

U.S Marines.

Moderator
#36 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20257 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: Yeah I know that Nelson didn't have to do anything with building (other than his personal troops moral). But you have to admit he was a total badass to be able to achieve so much with such disabilities.

#37 Posted by SoftMachineOo (132 posts) - - Show Bio

Spetsnaz probably

#38 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

The best in the world are guys that civilians don't know about and don't exist.

Of ones that are rumored? Combat Applications Group of the US Army combines the intelligence gathering and independance of the CIA with the breaching/HRT/HVT elimination of the military.

Most allied nations cross train in top tier units. I've TDY'd to Israel and England to work with the Commandos and SAS, respectively, in cross training.

You'd be surprised how often forces are dismissed as less "elite" by the public. Army Rangers and Green Berets are two from the US that come to mind. Often considered "less" than something like Navy SEALs because they don't get the press. Australia has SUPERB Operators, as does Canada and Poland.

Isn't that just Delta's former designation?

#39 Edited by GraniteSoldier (7872 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

The best in the world are guys that civilians don't know about and don't exist.

Of ones that are rumored? Combat Applications Group of the US Army combines the intelligence gathering and independance of the CIA with the breaching/HRT/HVT elimination of the military.

Most allied nations cross train in top tier units. I've TDY'd to Israel and England to work with the Commandos and SAS, respectively, in cross training.

You'd be surprised how often forces are dismissed as less "elite" by the public. Army Rangers and Green Berets are two from the US that come to mind. Often considered "less" than something like Navy SEALs because they don't get the press. Australia has SUPERB Operators, as does Canada and Poland.

Isn't that just Delta's former designation?

We don't say Delta in the community. But yes. I'm not used to saying Delta is all.

#40 Edited by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@totalbalance said:

@granitesoldier said:

The best in the world are guys that civilians don't know about and don't exist.

Of ones that are rumored? Combat Applications Group of the US Army combines the intelligence gathering and independance of the CIA with the breaching/HRT/HVT elimination of the military.

Most allied nations cross train in top tier units. I've TDY'd to Israel and England to work with the Commandos and SAS, respectively, in cross training.

You'd be surprised how often forces are dismissed as less "elite" by the public. Army Rangers and Green Berets are two from the US that come to mind. Often considered "less" than something like Navy SEALs because they don't get the press. Australia has SUPERB Operators, as does Canada and Poland.

Isn't that just Delta's former designation?

We don't say Delta in the community. But yes. I'm not used to saying Delta is all.

Okay, I was just wondering as when you said rumored I thought you meant some other group that isn't know to actually exist, when Delta Force is known to be a real unit.

Nice of you to compliment JTF2 as well.

#41 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7872 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@totalbalance said:

@granitesoldier said:

The best in the world are guys that civilians don't know about and don't exist.

Of ones that are rumored? Combat Applications Group of the US Army combines the intelligence gathering and independance of the CIA with the breaching/HRT/HVT elimination of the military.

Most allied nations cross train in top tier units. I've TDY'd to Israel and England to work with the Commandos and SAS, respectively, in cross training.

You'd be surprised how often forces are dismissed as less "elite" by the public. Army Rangers and Green Berets are two from the US that come to mind. Often considered "less" than something like Navy SEALs because they don't get the press. Australia has SUPERB Operators, as does Canada and Poland.

Isn't that just Delta's former designation?

We don't say Delta in the community. But yes. I'm not used to saying Delta is all.

Okay, I was just wondering as when you said rumored I thought you meant some other group that isn't know to actually exist, when Delta Force is known to be a real unit.

It's known but there is little to anything on paper. They "exist" but they are never confirmed in any modern day ops until well, well after the fact. There is no "confirmation or denial" of something above even them now, which was what my first statement was directed toward.

#42 Posted by RogueShadow (10778 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#43 Posted by Gordyman (619 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Navy SEALS

2. Napoleon's Grande Armee

#44 Posted by WarBlade539 (4582 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by HammerTron (611 posts) - - Show Bio

From history there are quite a few good choices like:

The Roman Legions

The Spartans

The Mongolian Horsemen

The Janissaries (from the area now known as Turkey)

The British Redcoats

#46 Posted by _Braveheart_ (1760 posts) - - Show Bio

In history, the mongols, the spartans, and the samurais were the best warriors. Also, although people don't mention them up very much but the Akkadian army was also one of the most elite fighting forces in history, specially under the rule of Sargon The Great, who conquered large parts of Mesopotamia and other regions to establish his empire. Besides him, his successors were also able to defeat several of their enemies.

Today, Navy Seals, Green Berets, Israeli Commando, and the Spetznaz.

#47 Posted by Eisenfauste (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

ISIS

#48 Posted by dngn4774 (3150 posts) - - Show Bio

For the first question, aren't we all going to lie and pick our own troops?

2. Going of off history, it would probably be the British or the Mongols. It think the Mogols had the largest consolidated empire, and at it's height the British Empire conquered 25% of Earth's land mass.

ISIS

Really?

#49 Edited by swordmasterD (2242 posts) - - Show Bio

mandalorians

#50 Posted by Eisenfauste (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774: One of the commanders was using a "Hello Kitty" notebook for his battle plan, they are the most elite fighting force out there ;)