Morgan Freeman's answer to Racism: Agree or Disagree?
Kinda beating a dead horse at this point, racism isn't dominant like it was in before, It's basically illegal to be racist in the eyes of many nowadays
Still dominant, just color blind
Race plays a major role-indeed, a defining role – in the current system, but not because of what is commonly understood as old-fashioned, hostile bigotry. This system of control depends far more onracial indifference (defined as a lack of compassion and caring about race and racial groups) than racial hostility – a feature it actually shares with its predecessors.
All racial caste systems, not just mass incarceration, have been supported by racial indifference. As noted earlier, many whites during the Jim Crow era sincerely believed that African Americans were intellectually and morally inferior. They meant blacks no harm but believed segregation was a sensible system for managing a society comprised of fundamentally different and unequal people. The sincerity of many people's racial beliefs is what led Martin Luther King Jr. to declare, "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." The notion that racial caste systems are necessarily predicated on a desire to harm other racial groups, and that racial hostility is the essence of racism, is fundamentally misguided. Even slavery does not conform to this limited understanding of racism and racial caste. Most plantation owners supported the institution of black slavery not because of a sadistic desire to harm blacks but instead because they wanted to get rich, and black slavery was the most efficient means to that end. By and large, plantation owners were indifferent to the suffering caused by slavery; they were motivated by greed. Preoccupation with the role of racial hostility in earlier caste systems can blind us to the ways in which every caste system, including mass incarceration, has been supported by racial indifference—a lack of caring and compassion for people of other races.
@cgoodness: That's fine
@cgoodness: Exactly
@jnr6lil: Noted
@cgoodness: Exactly
@jnr6lil: Noted
Noted, what?
There's an awful lot of "Learned Helplessness" reflected in this thread.
and whining...
There's an awful lot of "Learned Helplessness" reflected in this thread.
and whining...
Sure...
Real issues, buddy
Cool story
@kuonphobos: I'm not trying to sound abrasive in any way, but what exactly do those prove?
That certain races aren't more privileged than others or that these unfair biases in society don't really exist?
I mean, it sounds like that encyclopedia page was written by angry internet dudes on the internet who don't understand the point (sans the Tumblr social justice warriors,some of whom may falsely label with people that are actually making a valid point)
@jnr6lil: I'm not sure why you seem to feel compelled to respond to my posts friend. Particularly with butthurt monosyllabic grunts. Five will get you ten you didn't even bother reading the links and giving them any thought before being driven to grunt. Such flippant disregard coupled with a pretentious claim to one's keyboard warrior street cred is precisely what I am trying to shed light on.
This generation. SMH.
@jnr6lil: I'm not sure why you seem to feel compelled to respond to my posts friend. Particularly with butthurt monosyllabic grunts. Five will get you ten you didn't even bother reading the links and giving them any thought before being driven to grunt. Such flippant disregard coupled with a pretentious claim to one's keyboard warrior street cred is precisely what I am trying to shed light on.
This generation. SMH.
The links are no different than what's been said in this thread.
@kuonphobos: I'm not trying to sound abrasive in any way, but what exactly do those prove?
That certain races aren't more privileged than others or that these unfair biases in society don't really exist?
I mean, it sounds like that encyclopedia page was written by angry internet dudes on the internet who don't understand the point (sans the Tumblr social justice warriors,some of whom may falsely label with people that are actually making a valid point)
That tumblr link is satirical but it does shed some light on what I see as some of the problems in the stew of problems that make up the complex issue of racism.
The other links are simply food for thought. There is clearly some relevance to the issues of learned helplessness and the victim mentality both on this thread thus far and in the wider discussion as a whole. Offering these links in no way negates or makes a counter argument to the issues of privilege, bias, or discrimination in society. They merely are an attempt to point out that recognizing issues is indeed crucial to change, but so is the need to check one's attitudes and assumptions concerning one's own responsibility both in perpetuating animosity and in sustaining the flawed idea that someone owes us anything beyond security and basic opportunity. It is no one's obligation to move someone from a state of helplessness and laziness to a state of empowerment and action other than what each owes to themselves.
My 2 cents.
@kuonphobos: I'm not trying to sound abrasive in any way, but what exactly do those prove?
That certain races aren't more privileged than others or that these unfair biases in society don't really exist?
I mean, it sounds like that encyclopedia page was written by angry internet dudes on the internet who don't understand the point (sans the Tumblr social justice warriors,some of whom may falsely label with people that are actually making a valid point)
That tumblr link is satirical but it does shed some light on what I see as of the problems in the stew of problems that make up the complex issue of racism.
The other links are simply food for thought. There is clearly some relevance to the issues of learned helplessness and the victim mentality both on this thread thus far and in the wider discussion as a whole. Offering these links in no way negates or makes a counter argument to the issues of privilege, bias, or discrimination in society. They merely are an attempt to point out that recognizing issues is indeed crucial to change, but so is the need to check one's attitudes and assumptions concerning one's own responsibility both in perpetuating animosity and in sustaining the flawed idea that someone owes us anything beyond security and basic opportunity. It is no one's obligation to move someone from a state of helplessness and laziness to a state of empowerment and action other than what each owes to themselves.
My 2 cents.
Although I still disagree.
This was a better post than the links you posted.
Hell this was a better argument than most of the people who took your viewpoint in this thread.
@jnr6lil: I'm not sure why you seem to feel compelled to respond to my posts friend. Particularly with butthurt monosyllabic grunts. Five will get you ten you didn't even bother reading the links and giving them any thought before being driven to grunt. Such flippant disregard coupled with a pretentious claim to one's keyboard warrior street cred is precisely what I am trying to shed light on.
This generation. SMH.
The links are no different than what's been said in this thread.
Well clearly the ideas are not making any headway so I felt they needed a little reinforcement. =I
@kuonphobos: It is no one's obligation to move someone from a state of helplessness and laziness to a state of empowerment and action other than what each owes to themselves.
Best sentence in this entire thread.
@kuonphobos: Fair enough
Kinda beating a dead horse at this point, racism isn't dominant like it was in before, It's basically illegal to be racist in the eyes of many nowadays
LOL.
Kinda beating a dead horse at this point, racism isn't dominant like it was in before, It's basically illegal to be racist in the eyes of many nowadays
LOL.
better to beat a dead horse than to beat a live man complying with law enforcement instructions.
I really appreciate the posting of this video.
I intend to watch it through but since arguments are based upon assumptions (like the foundations of buildings) I felt I needed to take issue with his first main assumption offered at 5:11 in which he asks "Where does racism come from?" "From what roots does racism arise?" and then answers this question with "It comes from white supremacy...the idea that non-white people are inherently inferior in intellectual or moral terms from white folks".
Now I understand that the context is specifically focused upon the writings of WEB Dubois but if this is specifically the case then it should be clarified because far to often an argument which is quite specific is then extrapolated to a more general argument.
I wish to ask a few questions in rebuttal:
What is the source of Black racism toward Asians and Latinos? Latino racism toward Blacks and Asians? Asian racism towards Blacks and Latinos? Protestant white racism towards Irish or Polish Catholics which goes much farther than religion. Look at some of the anti-Irish propaganda from the 19th Century and say it doesn't involve racism. White upper class white collar towards white middle class blue collar which goes much farther than classism and competition?
Possibly more to follow...
~ So what should I take from his mocking affectation of a Southern accent at 10:05? It doesn't lend itself to a respectful dialogue.
~ at 10:45 he suggests that the gap hasn't been closed in 40 years because of white supremacy...personally I think the system of capitalism moves too slow for such quick change because of the nature economics more than any racism. This is why the left is pushing so hard for a more socialist system (as is Europe) because such a system would speed up the closing of the gap.
~ the hiring practice anecdote is clearly racism and immoral however the community demographic anecdote could also be explained better by the fact that whites clearly benefit from elements of a community which cater to them culturally as blacks (and all groups) also benefit from communities which cater to them culturally. This explains secondary migration in newly arrived immigrant populations as well as the existence and preference of ethnic enclave communities like Little Havanas or Orange County California. A desire to live near people you feel culturally comfortable with is not racism.
~ At 23:00 I really appreciate his statements about the "naturalization" of hierarchical systems. Where this is true such thinking is indeed racism (IMO) but personally I don't hold such definitions and I have argued against it whenever I have encountered it. And honestly I haven't really encountered it very often overall.
~ At 43:00 student basically brings up Morgan Freeman's point. At 45:00 the speaker makes the point I have been trying to make...or at least a part of my point...
~ at 45:00 speaker makes a good point about the shift from acknowledgement to acceptance while skipping over accountability...this helps me to understand a little more than I did before. Honestly to my way of thinking these more sober ideas are totally obscured by all the bellicose rhetoric I am hearing from all sides of the issue.
Out of all the people who are confronted by the police or arrested. I wonder what percentage of them are "beaten or killed" while complying with police instructions?
I bet that it is a percentage of a percent.
Out of all the people who are confronted by the police or arrested. I wonder what percentage of them are "beaten or killed" while complying with police instructions?
I bet that it is a percentage of a percent.
How?
I really appreciate the posting of this video.
I intend to watch it through but since arguments are based upon assumptions (like the foundations of buildings) I felt I needed to take issue with his first main assumption offered at 5:11 in which he asks "Where does racism come from?" "From what roots does racism arise?" and then answers this question with "It comes from white supremacy...the idea that non-white people are inherently inferior in intellectual or moral terms from white folks".
Now I understand that the context is specifically focused upon the writings of WEB Dubois but if this is specifically the case then it should be clarified because far to often an argument which is quite specific is then extrapolated to a more general argument.
I wish to ask a few questions in rebuttal:
What is the source of Black racism toward Asians and Latinos? Latino racism toward Blacks and Asians? Asian racism towards Blacks and Latinos? Protestant white racism towards Irish or Polish Catholics which goes much farther than religion. Look at some of the anti-Irish propaganda from the 19th Century and say it doesn't involve racism. White upper class white collar towards white middle class blue collar which goes much farther than classism and competition?
Possibly more to follow...
~ So what should I take from his mocking affectation of a Southern accent at 10:05? It doesn't lend itself to a respectful dialogue.
~ at 10:45 he suggests that the gap hasn't been closed in 40 years because of white supremacy...personally I think the system of capitalism moves too slow for such quick change because of the nature economics more than any racism. This is why the left is pushing so hard for a more socialist system (as is Europe) because such a system would speed up the closing of the gap.
~ the hiring practice anecdote is clearly racism and immoral however the community demographic anecdote could also be explained better by the fact that whites clearly benefit from elements of a community which cater to them culturally as blacks (and all groups) also benefit from communities which cater to them culturally. This explains secondary migration in newly arrived immigrant populations as well as the existence and preference of ethnic enclave communities like Little Havanas or Orange County California. A desire to live near people you feel culturally comfortable with is not racism.
~ At 23:00 I really appreciate his statements about the "naturalization" of hierarchical systems. Where this is true such thinking is indeed racism (IMO) but personally I don't hold such definitions and I have argued against it whenever I have encountered it. And honestly I haven't really encountered it very often overall.
~ At 43:00 student basically brings up Morgan Freeman's point. At 45:00 the speaker makes the point I have been trying to make...or at least a part of my point...
~ at 45:00 speaker makes a good point about the shift from acknowledgement to acceptance while skipping over accountability...this helps me to understand a little more than I did before. Honestly to my way of thinking these more sober ideas are totally obscured by all the bellicose rhetoric I am hearing from all sides of the issue.
It's called the totem pole mentality and it essentially comes from the idea of white supremacy; the whites started raising the issue of IQ scores and pointing out that African Americans were tending to score the lowest; this than instill the other races with a bit of pride. Although whites conceded that Asians scored higher, they still found an explanation for being at the top of the totem pole. This concept than started to created a bit of animosity between African Americans and the other races; however, a poster than point out conditions in the Asian countries towards non-whites who try to visit or live in those countries; most of that is created from old stereotypes passed by whites against African Americans throughout the 1800s and twentieth century. African Americans grips are more defensive in nature; not necessarily that other races are doing anything, just the perception alone can create a defensive mindset. Me, myself, I strive to be in a racially diverse environment, but I notice the non-verbal cues around the other races, as it relates to the totem pole mentality (e.g. I may not be as smart as a Caucasian but I'm smarter than you, as an African American).
It's gonna be like a Scooby Doo episode at the end when it turns out that Pooty is Uncle Ruckus.
Don't think I am messing with you here, Poots, because I love Uncle Ruckus... and if you look at several episodes of Boondocks, specifically the one where Uncle Ruckus runs for Office, he says A LOT of what you have said here. Which, in terms of a meta data cultural application, is in a very juicy way, very anti-racist.
It's gonna be like a Scooby Doo episode at the end when it turns out that Pooty is Uncle Ruckus.
Don't think I am messing with you here, Poots, because I love Uncle Ruckus... and if you look at several episodes of Boondocks, specifically the one where Uncle Ruckus runs for Office, he says A LOT of what you have said here. Which, in terms of a meta data cultural application, is in a very juicy way, very anti-racist.
Yeah I know but (don't grind your teeth at the pun) I rarely bet on horses, but when I do, it's the dark horse, and the long-odds.
It's gonna be like a Scooby Doo episode at the end when it turns out that Pooty is Uncle Ruckus.
Don't think I am messing with you here, Poots, because I love Uncle Ruckus... and if you look at several episodes of Boondocks, specifically the one where Uncle Ruckus runs for Office, he says A LOT of what you have said here. Which, in terms of a meta data cultural application, is in a very juicy way, very anti-racist.
My favorite quote by Ruckus is "I ain't met 2 n!ggas that's worth a squirrels fart". His self loathing is so outrageous it's funny. I've watched all the seasons of the Boondocks and liked them all except the last one when the creator Aaron Mcgruder left to make that stupid a$$ " Black Jesus" show. Yes i made a thread about that show also(link below). I don't agree with uncle Ruckus being so in love with white people. White people are the most destructive,power hungry race EVER. Still i think my mindset is somewhere between Ruckus and Huey. Huey also believes that racism exist but admits that some blacks are not helping their situation.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/off-topic-5/jesus-is-black-and-im-not-happy-1604091/
@pooty: said "White people are the most destructive,power hungry race EVER."
that there is a natural born Black Pearl (more valuable than most white pearls) born from a scrappity-ass beige-pink oyster. THANK YOU.
ya'll cannot facepalm THAT, modernww2fare!
Sadly, as expected, I don't interpret Ruckus as you do. I don't think he is racially self-loathing, I think he is more akin to the inspiration for Chris Rock, 20 years ago, saying "Books are Kryptonite to ---!"
And I feel that Ruckus is FRUSTRATED by Gramps Freeman's con-man-ass, always wanting the easy-way-out ass attitude to life, and the nastiness of Ruckus is a reaction to it.
Ruckus: "Ya feel THAT, ---? That feeling is WORK!" from the car wash scene. That's not self-loathing, that is loathing lazy f--k's who can't stand to pick up some paints and an easel versus stealing a pirated copy of Photoshop off of a file share system and altering a selfie and trying to sell it as "art".
@jugjugbanks: That gif wasn't a facepalm, I was just laughing too hard at your comment lol
@modernww2fare: my ABJECT apologies, dear mon ami. hard to tell sometimes, LOL
Now I'm seeing it from your side as you said and laughing myself. I'm thinking maybe I need to draw this mutherf--ker in a 2 panel, with pooty in the mask then the reveal of Uncle Ruckus!
@pooty: said "White people are the most destructive,power hungry race EVER."
that there is a natural born Black Pearl (more valuable than most white pearls) born from a scrappity-ass beige-pink oyster. THANK YOU.
ya'll cannot facepalm THAT, modernww2fare!
Sadly, as expected, I don't interpret Ruckus as you do. I don't think he is racially self-loathing, I think he is more akin to the inspiration for Chris Rock, 20 years ago, saying "Books are Kryptonite to ---!"
And I feel that Ruckus is FRUSTRATED by Gramps Freeman's con-man-ass, always wanting the easy-way-out ass attitude to life, and the nastiness of Ruckus is a reaction to it.
Ruckus: "Ya feel THAT, ---? That feeling is WORK!" from the car wash scene. That's not self-loathing, that is loathing lazy f--k's who can't stand to pick up some paints and an easel versus stealing a pirated copy of Photoshop off of a file share system and altering a selfie and trying to sell it as "art".
Uncle Ruckus has self loathing. Chris Rock said " I love BLACK PEOPLE but hate N!GGAS". On the other hand, Uncle Ruckus has put ALL black people into the category of lazy, good for nothing n!ggas. also, Ruckus loves white people and can't see that most of them don't like him nor are great as he imagines. If Ruckus was only attacking n!ggas then i would agree but in the entire series he has only given credit to one black person.Did you see how he told the story of "Catcher Freeman"? Or how he describes white people?
There's no way you can listen to uncle ruckus and say he's not racist against black people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knQWlri5GGw
Oh, if you read the forward to Aaron Mcgruders book "Because I know you don't read the Newspaper" he says Uncle Ruckus is based off of self depreciating black people
@jugjugbanks: @modernww2fare: Uncle Ruckus on black women
Uncle Ruckus on jury duty
Ruckus to MLK
Thank God for the White Man's infinite mercy!!
Out of all the people who are confronted by the police or arrested. I wonder what percentage of them are "beaten or killed" while complying with police instructions?
I bet that it is a percentage of a percent.
How?
Generally after so many days had passed I would not respond but I didn't get the notification (or I didn't see it) and although for me this seems to be severely obvious I thought I should elaborate.
First, just for a moment consider how many folks of color are confronted or arrested by the police in a given day/week/month/year all across the USA.
Then calculate the percentage of those encounters which result in beatings or deaths.
The ratio is probably something around 1,000,000 uneventful encounters per annum to 1,000 occurrences of beatings/death and my variables are probably conservative.
The the perception of escalation lies in the effect the media has in over-hyping singular events or a grouping of completely unrelated singular events along with the human mind's capacity for finding patterns where none exist.
@kuonphobos: Except the media doesn't report everything so your statistics are off.
Out of all the people who are confronted by the police or arrested. I wonder what percentage of them are "beaten or killed" while complying with police instructions?
I bet that it is a percentage of a percent.
How?
Generally after so many days had passed I would not respond but I didn't get the notification (or I didn't see it) and although for me this seems to be severely obvious I thought I should elaborate.
First, just for a moment consider how many folks of color are confronted or arrested by the police in a given day/week/month/year all across the USA.
Then calculate the percentage of those encounters which result in beatings or deaths.
The ratio is probably something around 1,000,000 uneventful encounters per annum to 1,000 occurrences of beatings/death and my variables are probably conservative.
The the perception of escalation lies in the effect the media has in over-hyping singular events or a grouping of completely unrelated singular events along with the human mind's capacity for finding patterns where none exist.
Actually my post didn't include race/color. It was a general question about police violence. I'm not sure that the amount of people that are killed/beaten while obeying the police is a "percent of a percent". But i'm willing to bet it is in the low single digits. actually i just googled the question and a few sites say that 1,000 people have been killed by police in 2014. That number includes those who were an actual threat to police and other people. So it may be a percent of a percent that is killed. Can't find anything on how many are beaten while obeying the police
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+people+are+killed+by+police&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
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