Mom Kills Son for Potty Training Accident

" @weaponmaster said:

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster said:

" The death penalty is too easy of a way out for them and makes whoever carries out the act a murderer themselves.  Lobotomy of the violence centers of the brainwould be a better solution. They deserve to rot in a cell with nothing but a cot eating the bare minumum food to subsist on for the rest of their miserable lives. "

By this logic every tax collector is an extortionist and every prison guard is a kidnapper. The government operates under a different set of rules and is given powers that individuals are denied, such as the right to imprison others or collect taxes. It is up to us to determine if the right to kill criminals is theirs too, but either way, the executioner isn't a murderer. They're a civil servant, carrying out the laws of the land, just like a tax collector or prison guard. "

 The IRS IS actually breaking laws by collecting income taxes.   Many governments operate under rules and given power that individuals are denied. This is the problem. They are human beings just as "individuals" are and manipulate and abuse power and have faults and failings. You must have swallowed your toothpaste as a child. Imprisonment and taking a life are two different things altogether. The Genocide of the Jews was government sanctioned as well, but it was still mass-murder and those soldiers who carried the gassing out were murdurers as well. As is killing civilians in a war, whether it is government sanctioned or not, it is still murder. Gladiatorial pits where people were thrown to lions was government sactioned as well, but the ones pushing them onto the field were just as much murderers as Caesar was. I guess the nazis were simply cicil servannts carrying out the laws of the land just as a tax collector or prioson guard. They were murderers. Period.  By your logic anything a government officials did would be right as long as it was government sanctioned. In some countries it is lawful to marry a 12 year old but everyone involved in allowing such a thing is an accessory to pedophilia and child rape, even the one marrying them.  Learn to think for yourself. "

which laws are the IRS breaking by collecting taxes?   I don't really understand the toothpaste claim, but whatever...  I never said that imprisonment and execution are the same thing, or even in the same ballpark, but you can no more blame the executioner for carrying out his duties, then the IRS for putting a lien against your house or a cop for putting you under arrest.   Murder is far more narrowly defined then you are claiming. If you kill a man in self defense, is that murder? what about to protect someone else? I never said the government was flawless. But you can not blame a broken system on the guy that carries it out. The fact is, if someone is legally executed in the united states, it simply is not murder on the part of the executioner.    I've been thinking for myself since grade school. If you're going to try and insult me, please work harder at it. "

" @joshmightbe said:

" Even the bible says to obey the laws of the land  "

in fact it demands execution. a lot. "

"Even the bible says to obey the laws of the land  " 
 

" @weaponmaster: Actually it was the new testament when Jesus said obey the laws of the land old testament god didn't care about mortal law "

Life-long sentence in jail or death penalty... a very painful death penalty. 

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster said:

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster said:

" The death penalty is too easy of a way out for them and makes whoever carries out the act a murderer themselves.  Lobotomy of the violence centers of the brainwould be a better solution. They deserve to rot in a cell with nothing but a cot eating the bare minumum food to subsist on for the rest of their miserable lives. "

By this logic every tax collector is an extortionist and every prison guard is a kidnapper. The government operates under a different set of rules and is given powers that individuals are denied, such as the right to imprison others or collect taxes. It is up to us to determine if the right to kill criminals is theirs too, but either way, the executioner isn't a murderer. They're a civil servant, carrying out the laws of the land, just like a tax collector or prison guard. "

 The IRS IS actually breaking laws by collecting income taxes.   Many governments operate under rules and given power that individuals are denied. This is the problem. They are human beings just as "individuals" are and manipulate and abuse power and have faults and failings. You must have swallowed your toothpaste as a child. Imprisonment and taking a life are two different things altogether. The Genocide of the Jews was government sanctioned as well, but it was still mass-murder and those soldiers who carried the gassing out were murdurers as well. As is killing civilians in a war, whether it is government sanctioned or not, it is still murder. Gladiatorial pits where people were thrown to lions was government sactioned as well, but the ones pushing them onto the field were just as much murderers as Caesar was. I guess the nazis were simply cicil servannts carrying out the laws of the land just as a tax collector or prioson guard. They were murderers. Period.  By your logic anything a government officials did would be right as long as it was government sanctioned. In some countries it is lawful to marry a 12 year old but everyone involved in allowing such a thing is an accessory to pedophilia and child rape, even the one marrying them.  Learn to think for yourself. "

which laws are the IRS breaking by collecting taxes?   I don't really understand the toothpaste claim, but whatever...  I never said that imprisonment and execution are the same thing, or even in the same ballpark, but you can no more blame the executioner for carrying out his duties, then the IRS for putting a lien against your house or a cop for putting you under arrest.   Murder is far more narrowly defined then you are claiming. If you kill a man in self defense, is that murder? what about to protect someone else? I never said the government was flawless. But you can not blame a broken system on the guy that carries it out. The fact is, if someone is legally executed in the united states, it simply is not murder on the part of the executioner.    I've been thinking for myself since grade school. If you're going to try and insult me, please work harder at it. "

The IRS actually breaking extortion laws and theft by deception laws. There are no actual laws on the books that state that you have to pay income taxes. There is also no taxation without representation. And 100% of IRS taxes go to pay the federal reserve (the U.S. borrows money from each year and have to pay them interest even though we can print our own money. It is illegal on many levels).  
 
Flouride was put into our water supply under the advisement of a german psychiatrist and not a denstist. Flouride is a waste product of Aluminum that was used on the jews in internment camps because the germans diiscovered that flouride made one docile and complacent towards authority figures. 
 
 Yes, you did use examples of how they were the same, you are simply backpedalling now. I blame the person putting an unlawful tax lien on your house or a police officer who arrests you unlawfully in the same manner as someone who kills someone because some people said it's ok and put some words to paper saying it's ok. They are all unjust acts. And Nazi concentration camp guards are just as guilty of unsjust acts as the government officials. 
 
I know the definition of murder. You simply either aren't understanding me or are feigning as if you don't. Walking up to someone and injecting them with poison or pushing a button and electricuting someone because youre told to and are paid to is neither self defence nor protecting innocents. It is murder. And all involved are accessories to murder.  
 
When I told you to learn think for yourself it was not an insult. I was telling you to learn to think for yourself. "

"@weaponmaster said:

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster said:

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster said:

" The death penalty is too easy of a way out for them and makes whoever carries out the act a murderer themselves.  Lobotomy of the violence centers of the brainwould be a better solution. They deserve to rot in a cell with nothing but a cot eating the bare minumum food to subsist on for the rest of their miserable lives. "

By this logic every tax collector is an extortionist and every prison guard is a kidnapper. The government operates under a different set of rules and is given powers that individuals are denied, such as the right to imprison others or collect taxes. It is up to us to determine if the right to kill criminals is theirs too, but either way, the executioner isn't a murderer. They're a civil servant, carrying out the laws of the land, just like a tax collector or prison guard. "

 The IRS IS actually breaking laws by collecting income taxes.   Many governments operate under rules and given power that individuals are denied. This is the problem. They are human beings just as "individuals" are and manipulate and abuse power and have faults and failings. You must have swallowed your toothpaste as a child. Imprisonment and taking a life are two different things altogether. The Genocide of the Jews was government sanctioned as well, but it was still mass-murder and those soldiers who carried the gassing out were murdurers as well. As is killing civilians in a war, whether it is government sanctioned or not, it is still murder. Gladiatorial pits where people were thrown to lions was government sactioned as well, but the ones pushing them onto the field were just as much murderers as Caesar was. I guess the nazis were simply cicil servannts carrying out the laws of the land just as a tax collector or prioson guard. They were murderers. Period.  By your logic anything a government officials did would be right as long as it was government sanctioned. In some countries it is lawful to marry a 12 year old but everyone involved in allowing such a thing is an accessory to pedophilia and child rape, even the one marrying them.  Learn to think for yourself. "

which laws are the IRS breaking by collecting taxes?   I don't really understand the toothpaste claim, but whatever...  I never said that imprisonment and execution are the same thing, or even in the same ballpark, but you can no more blame the executioner for carrying out his duties, then the IRS for putting a lien against your house or a cop for putting you under arrest.   Murder is far more narrowly defined then you are claiming. If you kill a man in self defense, is that murder? what about to protect someone else? I never said the government was flawless. But you can not blame a broken system on the guy that carries it out. The fact is, if someone is legally executed in the united states, it simply is not murder on the part of the executioner.    I've been thinking for myself since grade school. If you're going to try and insult me, please work harder at it. "

The IRS actually breaking extortion laws and theft by deception laws. There are no actual laws on the books that state that you have to pay income taxes. There is also no taxation without representation. And 100% of IRS taxes go to pay the federal reserve (the U.S. borrows money from each year and have to pay them interest even though we can print our own money. It is illegal on many levels).  
 
Flouride was put into our water supply under the advisement of a german psychiatrist and not a denstist. Flouride is a waste product of Aluminum that was used on the jews in internment camps because the germans diiscovered that flouride made one docile and complacent towards authority figures. 
 
 Yes, you did use examples of how they were the same, you are simply backpedalling now. I blame the person putting an unlawful tax lien on your house or a police officer who arrests you unlawfully in the same manner as someone who kills someone because some people said it's ok and put some words to paper saying it's ok. They are all unjust acts. And Nazi concentration camp guards are just as guilty of unsjust acts as the government officials. 
 
I know the definition of murder. You simply either aren't understanding me or are feigning as if you don't. Walking up to someone and injecting them with poison or pushing a button and electricuting someone because youre told to and are paid to is neither self defence nor protecting innocents. It is murder. And all involved are accessories to murder.  
 
When I told you to learn think for yourself it was not an insult. I was telling you to learn to think for yourself. "

1) you're an idiot. We have representation. it's called congress. they have the power to levy a tax. it's in the constitution (article 1, section 8, clause 1), which was ratified by all thirteen original states and agreed to by each additional state. there is nothing illegal about our elected representatives collecting taxes.
 
2) you're an idiot twice over now. first for assuming that i am at all complacent toward authority, second for trying to claim such on 5 posts worth of knowledge about me and my views.
 
3)  I am not going to debate the morality of concentration camp guards, mainly because neither of us were even there. I never said they were the same, simply that they follow the exact same logic patterns. and you have added qualifiers. you now are making it an unlawful arrest or taxation, which was never mentioned. If a police officer has acted illegally, he isto be held accountable. If an executioner acts outside the law he is also to be held accountable. But if "someone says it's ok and put some words to paper saying it's ok" and does so in an official capacity, then it's ok. The government has the right to pick a fight, to extort you for money, and to inprison you against your will. Because we, the people, gave them those rights. if we give them the right to kill, who the hell are you to say they don't have it? 4) Murder is the unlawful killing of another with malice aforethought. Because an executioner is acting within the law, it is not possible for them to be considered guilty of murder,while performing their duites. whether or not they are morally guilty is irrelevant. Because we are discussing a legal execution (as compared to a lynching or other form of improvised justice)the judge, jury and executioner has done nothing illegal in performing their duties.  Put some genuine thought into your arguements and i might actually listen to what your saying. "

" @weaponmaster:    1) sixteenth amendment. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."Clearly states that the federal government has the power to levy income tax, which we are legally bound to pay.  2) Maybe you should double check how well you read. My views on the legality of the death penalty andmy views on the way the government should operate are completely unrelated. Any implication therein, you have misinterpretted.   3) you need to stop thinking that you understand anything about me. Yes, there have beem quasi-legal executions that were not strictly within the scope of the law, and would be concidered murder today. Laws may violate principles or be contrary to previous superceding laws, but that does not make them "illegal" that makes them invalid. Being a single citizen does not give you the authority to override the federal government, which derives its authority from the broad consent of the entire country. If you do not want to be bound by the laws of the people, leave or change them. On a final note, Ad Hominem attacks will get you nowhere. I've heard, and read, them all before. so calling me a spoiled child just reinforces my contempt for you. Good luck fighting the man, i doubt he'll notice. "

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster:    1) sixteenth amendment. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."Clearly states that the federal government has the power to levy income tax, which we are legally bound to pay.  2) Maybe you should double check how well you read. My views on the legality of the death penalty andmy views on the way the government should operate are completely unrelated. Any implication therein, you have misinterpretted.   3) you need to stop thinking that you understand anything about me. Yes, there have beem quasi-legal executions that were not strictly within the scope of the law, and would be concidered murder today. Laws may violate principles or be contrary to previous superceding laws, but that does not make them "illegal" that makes them invalid. Being a single citizen does not give you the authority to override the federal government, which derives its authority from the broad consent of the entire country. If you do not want to be bound by the laws of the people, leave or change them. On a final note, Ad Hominem attacks will get you nowhere. I've heard, and read, them all before. so calling me a spoiled child just reinforces my contempt for you. Good luck fighting the man, i doubt he'll notice. "

1.) the sixteenth amendment was meant to tax ONLY government employees and not private citizens. Again, Do the proper research before feigning to be knowledgeable. Here is Tafts amendment proposal. http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/16Amend/LegIntent16thAmend.htm    
 
 
2.) I misinterpreted nothing. You used examples of other government agencies to make your point and used several examples of how the goverment is run and defended the protocol.Your disingenuous double-talk won't work on me. I am sorry if that disappoints you.  3.) I understand what you type. Yes laws that violate laws are illegal created and thus following them are illegal activities. The old "leave it or change it" now huh?  Before it was "we elected them and so we gave them the power so we should agree with every law". Hypocrisy at its worst.  The overused "Ad Hominem" cliche. How clever and original. I take it your maturity and free will have been in question many times before. Now you feel infantile contempt over an internet conversation? This reinforces my view that you are indeed acting as a spoiled child. I am sure you doubt everything except what is spoon fed to you by someone else. Keep on being an easily controlled puppet. They like that. "

" @weaponmaster said:

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @weaponmaster:    1) sixteenth amendment. "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."Clearly states that the federal government has the power to levy income tax, which we are legally bound to pay.  2) Maybe you should double check how well you read. My views on the legality of the death penalty andmy views on the way the government should operate are completely unrelated. Any implication therein, you have misinterpretted.   3) you need to stop thinking that you understand anything about me. Yes, there have beem quasi-legal executions that were not strictly within the scope of the law, and would be concidered murder today. Laws may violate principles or be contrary to previous superceding laws, but that does not make them "illegal" that makes them invalid. Being a single citizen does not give you the authority to override the federal government, which derives its authority from the broad consent of the entire country. If you do not want to be bound by the laws of the people, leave or change them. On a final note, Ad Hominem attacks will get you nowhere. I've heard, and read, them all before. so calling me a spoiled child just reinforces my contempt for you. Good luck fighting the man, i doubt he'll notice. "

1.) the sixteenth amendment was meant to tax ONLY government employees and not private citizens. Again, Do the proper research before feigning to be knowledgeable. Here is Tafts amendment proposal. http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Taxes/16Amend/LegIntent16thAmend.htm    
 
 
2.) I misinterpreted nothing. You used examples of other government agencies to make your point and used several examples of how the goverment is run and defended the protocol.Your disingenuous double-talk won't work on me. I am sorry if that disappoints you.  3.) I understand what you type. Yes laws that violate laws are illegal created and thus following them are illegal activities. The old "leave it or change it" now huh?  Before it was "we elected them and so we gave them the power so we should agree with every law". Hypocrisy at its worst.  The overused "Ad Hominem" cliche. How clever and original. I take it your maturity and free will have been in question many times before. Now you feel infantile contempt over an internet conversation? This reinforces my view that you are indeed acting as a spoiled child. I am sure you doubt everything except what is spoon fed to you by someone else. Keep on being an easily controlled puppet. They like that. "

1) the semantics of interpretting the sixteenth amendment are rendered irrelevant by the revenue act of 1913. it doesn't change the fact that the sixteenth amendment allowed for the creation of an income tax. who that tax was specific too is kinda irrelevant, as either way your original claim that the federal government doesn't have any laws providing for income tax is false.   2) you can keep being arrogant enough to put words in my mouth. my comparison was based on purely syllogistic logic. the simple fact remains that the people of the country have given the federal and state governments the rights, sacrificing their own freedoms, to incarcerate people, tax people, and in certain states kill people. they are logically equivalent. nothing more.   3) laws can't be illegal. that's a self-contradicting statement. they can be unjust, ungrounded, or superceded, but not illegal. I dare you to find one person that has been convicted of making a genuine law that was found to be illegal. Such laws are always appealled in court and voided. That doesn't make them illegal.   I guess you're right, their is a third option. get out, change the laws, or sit around bitching about the injustices of the justice system. And we elected them, and they made the laws, so we must abide by them, change them or leave. those are the options. i never EVER said you had to like them.   that last paragraph was still just ad hominem attacks so...i dunno, keep babbling i guess. "

  the net income of a taxable person shall include gains, profits, and income derived from salaries, wages, or compensation for personal service of whatever kind and in whatever form paid

" @weaponmaster: 1. The federal government needs tax money to operate so there is no way they'd be foolish enough not to make laws allowing taxation and like Full Spectrum said they did put laws on the books to support it 2.Saying leave or change the law isn't actually limiting anything if you aren't willing to try to change a law then you really have no place to bitch about it 3. As for life imprisonment vs the death penalty, We spend billions of dollars a year on prisoners that are never getting out of prison while people who obey the laws and respect other peoples human rights suffer in poverty, from a purely economic stand point execution makes more sense and as for morals why should we care about a murderer's life when they are unconcerned with other peoples right to live "

" @joshmightbe said:

" @weaponmaster: 1. The federal government needs tax money to operate so there is no way they'd be foolish enough not to make laws allowing taxation and like Full Spectrum said they did put laws on the books to support it 2.Saying leave or change the law isn't actually limiting anything if you aren't willing to try to change a law then you really have no place to bitch about it 3. As for life imprisonment vs the death penalty, We spend billions of dollars a year on prisoners that are never getting out of prison while people who obey the laws and respect other peoples human rights suffer in poverty, from a purely economic stand point execution makes more sense and as for morals why should we care about a murderer's life when they are unconcerned with other peoples right to live "

1. Federal Income taxes aren't used to operate the government, they are used to pay the principle and the interest on the money that the federal reserve ( a private conglomerate) loans us each year to cover our deficit. We pay many taxes that run the government: property taxes, sales tax, etc. Don't pretend to be knowledgeable about something you clearly know nothing about. 2.   The first portion of your statment makes no sense. The second part is assumptive and hypocritical. Educating people on misconceptions is one aspect of effecting change, among many others. So you have never complained about a law or statute or when complain you did you started a grassroots organization to change it? That question what rhetorical as i know the answer. With that stated i was clearing up someones misconception of things just as i am now doing for you. This is educating, not griping.  3. Looking at it from a purely economic standpoint it costs much more to give someone the death penalty because of the resulting appeals which is on top of the cost of their incarceration, so you are wrong once again.  As far as morals are concerned what if the person is innocent and wrongfully accused? This happens often. I guess we shouldn't care about them right? But wouldn't that be immoral?  You really are not very well versed in these issues and are not very wise. But I am sure that instead of realizing that, you will respond with some long, annotated, post to try to prove either to me or to yourself or both that you are.   Educate yourself more and think things through before you try to act more knowledgeable and astute than you actually are.  I won't respond to you again on this topic as It is quite apparent that you will be much to stubborn, prideful, and closed-minded to learn anything from it. And I can tell from your posts there is very little to learn from you.  "

Prison, the death penalty should be abolished. The government doesn't have any right to take the lives of it's own citizens. These people may be sickos but they're still humans after all (At least I think) and they deserve to be in jail.

Dude, like wtf

" Prison, the death penalty should be abolished. The government doesn't have any right to take the lives of it's own citizens. These people may be sickos but they're still humans after all (At least I think) and they deserve to be in jail. "

" @CrimsonAvenger said:

" Prison, the death penalty should be abolished. The government doesn't have any right to take the lives of it's own citizens. These people may be sickos but they're still humans after all (At least I think) and they deserve to be in jail. "

this is what we're debating. every civilization on earth has executed it's criminals. what makes us so special? i know it's not religion, the catholic church has executed more people than any one government i can think of. Is it just a product of the times? because we've been executing people in america since before the english even got here (Santa Fe, New Mexico circa 1598). what is it that makes the death penalty suddenly so immoral? "

" @Full_Spectrum said:

" @CrimsonAvenger said:

" Prison, the death penalty should be abolished. The government doesn't have any right to take the lives of it's own citizens. These people may be sickos but they're still humans after all (At least I think) and they deserve to be in jail. "

this is what we're debating. every civilization on earth has executed it's criminals. what makes us so special? i know it's not religion, the catholic church has executed more people than any one government i can think of. Is it just a product of the times? because we've been executing people in america since before the english even got here (Santa Fe, New Mexico circa 1598). what is it that makes the death penalty suddenly so immoral? "

It's always been wrong, no matter who does it. I say it should be considered murder but I know that will never happen. "

There are lots of things modern people think are new that have been with us forever both good and bad on the good side their have always been people trying to bring about tolerance and world peace and on the bad side things like racism did you know everytime you use the word barbarian you're actually using a Roman racial slur for those not of Roman decent 

" There are lots of things modern people think are new that have been with us forever both good and bad on the good side their have always been people trying to bring about tolerance and world peace and on the bad side things like racism did you know everytime you use the word barbarian you're actually using a Roman racial slur for those not of Roman decent  "

"@weaponmaster said:

" @joshmightbe said:

" @weaponmaster: 1. The federal government needs tax money to operate so there is no way they'd be foolish enough not to make laws allowing taxation and like Full Spectrum said they did put laws on the books to support it 2.Saying leave or change the law isn't actually limiting anything if you aren't willing to try to change a law then you really have no place to bitch about it 3. As for life imprisonment vs the death penalty, We spend billions of dollars a year on prisoners that are never getting out of prison while people who obey the laws and respect other peoples human rights suffer in poverty, from a purely economic stand point execution makes more sense and as for morals why should we care about a murderer's life when they are unconcerned with other peoples right to live "

1. Federal Income taxes aren't used to operate the government, they are used to pay the principle and the interest on the money that the federal reserve ( a private conglomerate) loans us each year to cover our deficit. We pay many taxes that run the government: property taxes, sales tax, etc. Don't pretend to be knowledgeable about something you clearly know nothing about. 2.   The first portion of your statment makes no sense. The second part is assumptive and hypocritical. Educating people on misconceptions is one aspect of effecting change, among many others. So you have never complained about a law or statute or when complain you did you started a grassroots organization to change it? That question what rhetorical as i know the answer. With that stated i was clearing up someones misconception of things just as i am now doing for you. This is educating, not griping.  3. Looking at it from a purely economic standpoint it costs much more to give someone the death penalty because of the resulting appeals which is on top of the cost of their incarceration, so you are wrong once again.  As far as morals are concerned what if the person is innocent and wrongfully accused? This happens often. I guess we shouldn't care about them right? But wouldn't that be immoral?  You really are not very well versed in these issues and are not very wise. But I am sure that instead of realizing that, you will respond with some long, annotated, post to try to prove either to me or to yourself or both that you are.   Educate yourself more and think things through before you try to act more knowledgeable and astute than you actually are.  I won't respond to you again on this topic as It is quite apparent that you will be much to stubborn, prideful, and closed-minded to learn anything from it. And I can tell from your posts there is very little to learn from you.  "

you are the most presumptuous little sh!t I've seen on this site in a long while. 
 
1) the government gets roughly half of its money from personal income taxes. Income tax has been the federal goverment's number on source of revenue since the 50's
 
2) this isn't education, this is an angry person with a keyboard who thinks he's got the world all figured out. The simple fact remains that ifyou've got a problem with a law you will A) find a way to remove it B) sit their and grumble about it or C) leave.  
 
3) nobody has ever been proven innocent after their execution and you know it. shut up.
 
@joshmightbe: I'mma go get some lunch. If I were you, I'd just leave this idiot alone and toast yourself to another argument won by logic and reasoning. *raises glass* "

" @joshmightbe said:

" Death penalty  "

co -signed  "