@deranged_midget: I get what you mean, but even if it was said to a man, it would still be a rape joke just not as inappropriate. My point though, is that I don't even think he meant it as a rape joke or to be malicious, more just like a nerd joke.
Again, we are in disagreement Razz! That's just how gamers talk to each other, despite not entirely being in that context. It's poor, crude and competitive humour.
But I can agree to disagree :)
I'm usually on board with what you have to say, but I have to fundamentally disagree with you here Razz. First off, I do think it was a Rape Joke, and as a result, offensive. But the whole idea he's doesn't talk to many women and watch too much juvenile animated cartoons in my OP, is an unfounded slander. First off, we have no idea whether that claim is true or not. What annoys more though, is that the way you made that point seems to indicate guys who don't talk to women and watch alot of juvenile animated cartoons, are somehow more prone to make misogynistic remarks about women.
@deranged_midget: more just like a nerd joke.
Na.........
So much ignorance on here.
That is the rape joke.
Claiming you don't see it makes you an apologist and even worse, a lemming. People are not LOOKING for a reason to cry foul -- for f*ck's sakes -- it was CLEAR AS DAY.
Learn a little and if you want to stick your head in the sand whenever something makes you uncomfortable or forces you to actually give a sh*t, then keep your limp excuses to yourself and leave it to the big boys and girls who aren't afraid to stand up and point out garbage like this. It's one thing to be a coward, but trying to redirect and throw sand in the eyes of those who see the Emperor nakedness makes you a bloody accomplice.
Grow up.
hahaha "Just let it happen it'll be over soon" that's not offensive lol it's a video game. That's how gamers talk.
No, it's more like accept your losing.
Now for the using of the word Rape in this venue,it is totally not needed. There is a dictionary full of words that better describe wining in a video game. But what do you want from a bunch of fourteen year olds and people who have zero empathy.
THIS!
hahaha "Just let it happen it'll be over soon" that's not offensive lol it's a video game. That's how gamers talk.
I've been playing video-games for more than 18 years,years before online game was a thing when I had to go to arcades to play against, other people I never said anything like that even when I was a teenager.
Gamers already have lots of bad stereotypes attached to them don't bring another one.
hahaha "Just let it happen it'll be over soon" that's not offensive lol it's a video game. That's how gamers talk.
I've been playing video-games for more than 18 years,years before online game was a thing when I had to go to arcades to play against, other people I never said anything like that even when I was a teenager.
Gamers already have lots of bad stereotypes attached to them don't bring another one.
I'm not I'm a gamer too. I've been playing online since Halo 3 in 2007 and get online in game chat(especially CoD) all they do is say rape related jokes when your getting beat. And what this guy said was actually pretty funny. And I said that's how gamers talk not that all gamer talk like that just the majority I heard.
...
Wait there was a joke?
Okay I don't think its unreasonable to suppose that this random guy I know nothing about attempted to make a joke based on his delivery even if I didn't find it funny but its still assuming, and thats okay, I wasn't there, I don't know the person well on any level, not enough to be certain of much about them. Let me assume more about them like the context of which they delivered their joke. Okay so is this person in a relationship with another man whose consent is often given when they play uh Connect Four often and where one of their enthusiasm is greater than the other leading to situations where one tells the other "just let it happen it will be over soon?" as a way to articulate the idea that one of them is enjoying this more than the other? Probably not, who plays Connect Four these days anyways? Potentially could be any number of situations with any amounts of people of all different genders. Do I assume his comment as delivered during E3 in front of a room full of people was intended to be sexual? Yeah I kind of do, but not in a jokingly malicious rape way, that inserts the idea of winning in a video game into the concept of rape, more of a jokingly juvenile braggart boasting way that ties a sexual overtone involving enjoyment into the actual scenario of beating another person in video games which that in itself unfortunately become the norm among some groups of video game players and comic book readers and uh society since we all learned to talk. I say unfortunately more from the idea of people sincerely boasting about themselves in unfunny ways awkward, if you are going to do it, be witty, and I find competitiveness a bit daft, but those are just personal preferences. To me language isn't offensive, intent and action can be.
Thats another way of saying that I can recognize that popular opinion can, will and has inferred whether this is a rape joke or not, much like how it likes to give opinions on everything, but to me it can only be a rape joke if the person who said it meant it to be a rape joke. Otherwise to me it only potentially came off as a rape joke. If things are things based on what we say, think and perceive then no one has a chance and we are all the worst. So I find it funny that its hard for me to find out whether anyone actually wanted to ask the guy who made the comment was his intent was, its hard to find amongst all the reaction to what he said. The closest I come is the supposed female in the video defending her friend. Sort of reminds me of a lot of the in jokes I see posters on this site make towards each other and how malicious and suggestive they could be seen to be by an outside source. Many posters on this site in attempts to make friends feel awkward imply sexual relationships, exaggerated ambiguously consensual sexual interactions between favorite characters and disliked characters back and forward to rile close friends. Different situation since its not happening on a stageful of observers so there's that but that matters why? Banter is banter, it can be lame and unfunny and juvenile, and I have my own opinions as far as the intellectual processes that go into banter with myself and with others, as in I care what I say and how banter wise to friends, but not my friends banter wise at me.
Since this was in front of observers and incorporated business well there is another context. Since whether one considers a reaction overreaction or appropriate one should count on reaction happening and happening unfairly in all manner of contexts including positive and negative. Society is still more reactionary and prone to casting judgement and opinions in spite of objective information and knowledge. Its not mature enough to handle concepts like choosing to be offended when one considers details versus feeling offended based on reactions and feelings and assumptions. Just like one rape victim doesn't get granted ownership of all rape victims opinions, views and perspectives rape victims don't have ownership of being the only victims in reality. Victims aren't the only ones living in reality, depending on your range and threshold as far as what defines a victim taking into consideration past, current future tenses.
Okay so I would make objective claims about how bad media is when it comes to presenting the news feeding off peoples emotions and reactions instead of trying to diffuse a situation with facts and intention try and ham it up because nothing is greater than having "two sides" surrounding gender and sex issues, throw in a big billion dollar corporation and strong opinions and just sit back and watch. I am a fan of conversation and dialogue mind you especially regarding these issues I just wish it was a little bit more intelligent and less judgmental and hypocritical. A little bit more reasonable and a little less emotional. A little bit more objective a little less subjective, one gets the picture. Also wished everyone who had an opinion on this would inquire locally to see if there were any shelters or organizations that deal with assault, abuse so on that require more volunteers and give some time there too. Also I would make objective claims about how most countries suck when it comes to how they treat their victims in the general sense and victims of sexual assault, abuse and rape, domestic abuse, children, gender issues well you know a lot. I am aware to some extent how it can make life harder for many, and that facilities and help that should exist to empower and aid many times of victims just lacks, doesn't exist, not adequately anyway and even then with proper mental, emotional support, friends families spouses and so on it can still be tough let alone how tough it is for a person without those things to deal with living without having to worry about triggering in situations where someones lame joke may have unintentional (or intentionally) devastating consequences, but here's the thing for such victims as well as all people ever. Its better when you acquire the ability to choose how you act and react to stimuli rather than finding yourself reacting to things beyond your control. Sometimes thats impossible so its also important to acquire the ability to realize and acknowledge that and bounce back which can mean questioning yourself and your reactions and how much power you give to other people and what they say and do.
In short I don't really like this "This was an insensitive rape joke and systematic of a rape culture and if you can't see this clearly you ignorant VS This was a simple and common joke and now the LGBT feminist brigade are raging because they are oversensitive and can't take a joke cause society is so soft and sensitive today" set up. Do we really have to turn to the Us vs Them mentality that is so prevalent in politics, arguments and uh battle threads. Not really fond of oversimplifications to provide validity to a persons opinion and above isn't really that accurate unless you know, you want it to be so it makes it easier to counter common arguments. Even some of the smarter more reasonable comments surrounding this important topic (various blogs so on) have attempted to make factual certain assertions out of their own presumptions and just ran away with that to support their ideas which really undermines their point and makes it too easy. When you believe something because you believe it thats a big problem. Sort of like how Chris Brown is now a invitation to talk about domestic abuse and celebrity favor and damages instead of an average RnB/rap singer/dancer I sort of don't care about the awkward banter between two friends in a public demonstration, I structured above to address the reoccurring sentiment and arguments that happen in such situations.
Well i've heard far worse over xbox live as i knew people would over react to what was said .
Who would joke about something like that? Not just Family Guy.
South Park did it to.
Though does this count as funny or wrong?
I'm having trouble figuring out what's funny anymore.
I mean I laughed at the South Park rape jokes. I couldn't help it. But I don't find rape funny at all, its disgusting.
So what's the deal?
Rape jokes either are funny or they are horrifying or both. This is all to confusing!
get that off of my computer screen......now! And if you laugh at jokes like that,then you happen to find it funny. I mean,it's not a laughing matter (as you stated),but humor is subjective. Based on your opinion.You happen to like it,I don't happen to like it....
@consolemaster001: Saying that this is a "rape joke" is like saying if i beat a black guy in a video game and i say : "lol i totally owned you" it implies slavery.
End thread
So much ignorance on here.
That is the rape joke.
Claiming you don't see it makes you an apologist and even worse, a lemming. People are not LOOKING for a reason to cry foul -- for f*ck's sakes -- it was CLEAR AS DAY.
Learn a little and if you want to stick your head in the sand whenever something makes you uncomfortable or forces you to actually give a sh*t, then keep your limp excuses to yourself and leave it to the big boys and girls who aren't afraid to stand up and point out garbage like this. It's one thing to be a coward, but trying to redirect and throw sand in the eyes of those who see the Emperor nakedness makes you a bloody accomplice.
Grow up.
Pretty much how I view most people on this thread.
Doesn't matter. Nothing anyone shared on here has surprised me considering who they are. Majority doesn't rule when it comes to right and wrong, either. Just because you don't want to see it, doesn't make it not there and I stand by my words. Emotional sounding or not -- when I see stupidity, I call it stupidity. Subjective/objective -- does it make what I say lose any validity if tell people to go f*ck themselves? If it does - then that's on the people who translate it as such -- so much for being objective. In fact, they can go f*ck themselves the hardest. How's that for a "rape" joke?
This instance was not malicious but the "rape culture" pervasive in the gaming industry is real. Do I think the guy should be strung up and pelted with acid-soaked foam sticks? No. But if anything, because it wasn't meant maliciously - because it's become so commonplace and accepted as part of a gaming "trash talk" goes to show just how wrong it is.
Whatever. I respect everyone's right to their opinions. It's the right I respect, not the opinion. And not the people giving them. That's my right.
@consolemaster001: Saying that this is a "rape joke" is like saying if i beat a black guy in a video game and i say : "lol i totally owned you" it implies slavery.
End thread
I had no idea slavery is still a pervasive issue in your country. Wow.
@consolemaster001: Saying that this is a "rape joke" is like saying if i beat a black guy in a video game and i say : "lol i totally owned you" it implies slavery.
Not really, as the term "owned" is common language in gaming culture. The term "Just let it happen, it will be over soon", isn't commonly used in gaming language. Some may say "but rape is common language in gaming culture". Yes that is true, but the word Rape as a original definition has an inherently negative connotation. Owned as a original definition, indicates to have possession over something, and doesn't in itself refer to Slavery- unless that link is made. It is very different from making a joke which trivializes rape.
It would be racist If you beat a Black Guy and said "I owned you and made you my slave".
End thread
Nice try.
@betatesthighlander1: Its however not really used in that context anymore or at least as much. Thats like telling somebody its okay to use F***** because it can mean a cigarette.
As for the killing thing. Debately yes it could be but more often then not victims of murders are rarely alive, and it doeant have nearly the triggering effect to as it does to rape victims who are still alive.
lot's of gay people use that f word (i have never known any gay person who was offended by the casual use thereof, nor have I ever met any homophobe who's ever used that word to describe gay people {usually "homosexual" pronounced really deliberately})
anyways, there are a lot of relatives of murder victims out there, and what about terms like "mutilate" or "wreck"?
Pretty much how I view most people on this thread.
Doesn't matter. Nothing anyone shared on here has surprised me considering who they are. Majority doesn't rule when it comes to right and wrong, either. Just because you don't want to see it, doesn't make it not there and I stand by my words. Emotional sounding or not -- when I see stupidity, I call it stupidity. Subjective/objective -- does it make what I say lose any validity if tell people to go f*ck themselves? If it does - then that's on the people who translate it as such -- so much for being objective. In fact, they can go f*ck themselves the hardest. How's that for a "rape" joke?
This instance was not malicious but the "rape culture" pervasive in the gaming industry is real. Do I think the guy should be strung up and pelted with acid-soaked foam sticks? No. But if anything, because it wasn't meant maliciously - because it's become so commonplace and accepted as part of a gaming "trash talk" goes to show just how wrong it is.
Whatever. I respect everyone's right to their opinions. It's the right I respect, not the opinion. And not the people giving them. That's my right.
I agree fundamentally. I've had close family members effected by it, so maybe I view things from a more personal level. And its true, most people tend to use the term without malice, just like word vomit (Sly Mean Girls reference). My gripe of complaints was on another issue I raised on this thread, but that's water under the bridge.
@consolemaster001: Saying that this is a "rape joke" is like saying if i beat a black guy in a video game and i say : "lol i totally owned you" it implies slavery.
End thread
I had no idea slavery is still a pervasive issue in your country. Wow.
Where my mum was born, and my dad's parents are from, it is, but I'm being tricky :P
people need real problems
@consolemaster001: Saying that this is a "rape joke" is like saying if i beat a black guy in a video game and i say : "lol i totally owned you" it implies slavery.
End thread
I had no idea slavery is still a pervasive issue in your country. Wow.
Where my mum was born, and my dad's parents are from, it is, but I'm being tricky :P
To get even trickier, slavery is still an issue in Canada -- women brought over from former Soviet states and being forced to be strippers and prostitutes/people from extremely poor countries to be dragged to an abandoned farm for hard manual labour -- all very real.
That's another topic and I one I suspect most on here aren't interested in anyway. But good on you for calling me out on that, even if it was to be tricky. :)
...
Wait there was a joke?
Okay I don't think its unreasonable to suppose that this random guy I know nothing about attempted to make a joke based on his delivery even if I didn't find it funny but its still assuming, and thats okay, I wasn't there, I don't know the person well on any level, not enough to be certain of much about them. Let me assume more about them like the context of which they delivered their joke. Okay so is this person in a relationship with another man whose consent is often given when they play uh Connect Four often and where one of their enthusiasm is greater than the other leading to situations where one tells the other "just let it happen it will be over soon?" as a way to articulate the idea that one of them is enjoying this more than the other? Probably not, who plays Connect Four these days anyways? Potentially could be any number of situations with any amounts of people of all different genders. Do I assume his comment as delivered during E3 in front of a room full of people was intended to be sexual? Yeah I kind of do, but not in a jokingly malicious rape way, that inserts the idea of winning in a video game into the concept of rape, more of a jokingly juvenile braggart boasting way that ties a sexual overtone involving enjoyment into the actual scenario of beating another person in video games which that in itself unfortunately become the norm among some groups of video game players and comic book readers and uh society since we all learned to talk. I say unfortunately more from the idea of people sincerely boasting about themselves in unfunny ways awkward, if you are going to do it, be witty, and I find competitiveness a bit daft, but those are just personal preferences. To me language isn't offensive, intent and action can be.
Thats another way of saying that I can recognize that popular opinion can, will and has inferred whether this is a rape joke or not, much like how it likes to give opinions on everything, but to me it can only be a rape joke if the person who said it meant it to be a rape joke. Otherwise to me it only potentially came off as a rape joke. If things are things based on what we say, think and perceive then no one has a chance and we are all the worst. So I find it funny that its hard for me to find out whether anyone actually wanted to ask the guy who made the comment was his intent was, its hard to find amongst all the reaction to what he said. The closest I come is the supposed female in the video defending her friend. Sort of reminds me of a lot of the in jokes I see posters on this site make towards each other and how malicious and suggestive they could be seen to be by an outside source. Many posters on this site in attempts to make friends feel awkward imply sexual relationships, exaggerated ambiguously consensual sexual interactions between favorite characters and disliked characters back and forward to rile close friends. Different situation since its not happening on a stageful of observers so there's that but that matters why? Banter is banter, it can be lame and unfunny and juvenile, and I have my own opinions as far as the intellectual processes that go into banter with myself and with others, as in I care what I say and how banter wise to friends, but not my friends banter wise at me.
Since this was in front of observers and incorporated business well there is another context. Since whether one considers a reaction overreaction or appropriate one should count on reaction happening and happening unfairly in all manner of contexts including positive and negative. Society is still more reactionary and prone to casting judgement and opinions in spite of objective information and knowledge. Its not mature enough to handle concepts like choosing to be offended when one considers details versus feeling offended based on reactions and feelings and assumptions. Just like one rape victim doesn't get granted ownership of all rape victims opinions, views and perspectives rape victims don't have ownership of being the only victims in reality. Victims aren't the only ones living in reality, depending on your range and threshold as far as what defines a victim taking into consideration past, current future tenses.
Okay so I would make objective claims about how bad media is when it comes to presenting the news feeding off peoples emotions and reactions instead of trying to diffuse a situation with facts and intention try and ham it up because nothing is greater than having "two sides" surrounding gender and sex issues, throw in a big billion dollar corporation and strong opinions and just sit back and watch. I am a fan of conversation and dialogue mind you especially regarding these issues I just wish it was a little bit more intelligent and less judgmental and hypocritical. A little bit more reasonable and a little less emotional. A little bit more objective a little less subjective, one gets the picture. Also wished everyone who had an opinion on this would inquire locally to see if there were any shelters or organizations that deal with assault, abuse so on that require more volunteers and give some time there too. Also I would make objective claims about how most countries suck when it comes to how they treat their victims in the general sense and victims of sexual assault, abuse and rape, domestic abuse, children, gender issues well you know a lot. I am aware to some extent how it can make life harder for many, and that facilities and help that should exist to empower and aid many times of victims just lacks, doesn't exist, not adequately anyway and even then with proper mental, emotional support, friends families spouses and so on it can still be tough let alone how tough it is for a person without those things to deal with living without having to worry about triggering in situations where someones lame joke may have unintentional (or intentionally) devastating consequences, but here's the thing for such victims as well as all people ever. Its better when you acquire the ability to choose how you act and react to stimuli rather than finding yourself reacting to things beyond your control. Sometimes thats impossible so its also important to acquire the ability to realize and acknowledge that and bounce back which can mean questioning yourself and your reactions and how much power you give to other people and what they say and do.
In short I don't really like this "This was an insensitive rape joke and systematic of a rape culture and if you can't see this clearly you ignorant VS This was a simple and common joke and now the LGBT feminist brigade are raging because they are oversensitive and can't take a joke cause society is so soft and sensitive today" set up. Do we really have to turn to the Us vs Them mentality that is so prevalent in politics, arguments and uh battle threads. Not really fond of oversimplifications to provide validity to a persons opinion and above isn't really that accurate unless you know, you want it to be so it makes it easier to counter common arguments. Even some of the smarter more reasonable comments surrounding this important topic (various blogs so on) have attempted to make factual certain assertions out of their own presumptions and just ran away with that to support their ideas which really undermines their point and makes it too easy. When you believe something because you believe it thats a big problem. Sort of like how Chris Brown is now a invitation to talk about domestic abuse and celebrity favor and damages instead of an average RnB/rap singer/dancer I sort of don't care about the awkward banter between two friends in a public demonstration, I structured above to address the reoccurring sentiment and arguments that happen in such situations.
you forgot your thesis in your essay.... (lol jk).
On the one hand,I agree with this,on the other hand,I agree with the article that lykopsis showed.
I am truly torn on this,on the one hand I think that (btw,that is funny that no one actually asked him...I never really thought of that):
I think that it potentially was a rape joke (but he didn't mean it as such),but since rape jokes are kinda common in gaming culture,he didn't actually mean for it to be a rape joke.So it was a rape reference,but he didn't intend for it to be.But it still was,nonetheless.(Gah,I am going in circles,you know what I mean).Here are the points (this might be simpler):
He simply said it only in the context for her to just let his inevitable victory happen.He didn't say it in the context of "I am beating you" in a way to mirror rape,but more in the sense for her to just stop trying because he is going to win shortly....ugh,you know what I mean!!
I really am torn on this.I mean,he most likely didn't intend to mean that,but at the same time it was still a rape reference.But again,perhaps he just said it in a way that wasn't mirroring rape (the way it is used in common gaming culture)...but just in the context of "my victory is inevitable".
But I hate to paint gamers with this stereotypical brush because,just because a lot of gamers use this,doesn't mean that the majority use it on average.I mean,I know many gamers that use this term loosely (and again,without actually intending for the meaning of rape,but having it as a rape reference as in mirroring rape,nonetheless),yet I know many that don't use this term.So I am not going to stereotype gamers,although I know many of them do use this term.
people need real problems
No thank you. I already have too many.
InnerVenom123...U CRAZY!
He feeds of our hate, and it makes him stronger..........
@sideburnguru: Yeah, I don't really follow the whole "IT'S TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE NOW
You don't have to follow it. many others still do
It only comes up as gross and immature when people like them say it.
Your feelings of people who use the term don't matter . You admitted you have heard it used in a non sexual way and that is all that matters.
I don't think he'd be a good example for trying to state how a word or phrase can be considered acceptable
Eazy E and others like him influenced a whole culture. Other entertainers started saying it. and that influenced the people who listen to it which numbers in the millions. Just like Michael jackson with "Bad" bad can mean evil or a hot person or cool. Words and phrases have different meanings. You never heard a person say "You're retarded"when they did something dumb or silly? same thing applies here. context means more then words
Rape joke is a rape joke
Didn't hear the word rape once in that video. Nor did he say anything that would support he was being sexual with her.
1. Does it matter? Just because a bunch of people like or follow something doesn't mean it's for the better. One Direction was a top selling artist. Want me to think they're good and people should follow them? No. People continue to say "YOLO". Does that change the fact it's a poor man's Carpe Diem? No.
Saying "SMD" still means "SMD." There is no other way around it. It's an insult, and it's telling someone to "SMD". That's all it means, insult phrase or in verb tense.
2. Does matter. It still comes up as immature and vulgar, only used from trashy people around here. It comes up especially stupid when a girl says "SMD". If you're going to tell someone off, tell them off. "SMD" still only relates to one action, and it always has been. Even in insult terms.
3. Please, tell me what culture he influenced.
4. "Yeah, you lay down and take it." Is only suggestive in one tense. Many others have also backed that theory up. You denying it doesn't change what it can easily relate to and suggest.
The fact it's acceptable still gives an outlook on how stupid care-free people can be.
@dernman
When someone says "Go to hell" it's still telling someone to literally go to hell. What else can you take it as? The insult means exactly as it says. "F'k you" means exactly what it implies. I always thought the "You" was short for "Yourself" in that scenario.
These insults mean exactly as it would suggest. The definition didn't change.
When someone says "Go to hell" it's still telling someone to literally go to hell. What else can you take it as?
Not at all or all those Atheists who don't actually believe in hell need to check themselves.
The insult means exactly as it says. "F'k you" means exactly what it implies. I always thought the "You" was short for "Yourself" in that scenario.
See right there the fact that you can think differently proves my point. Different things to different people.
These insults mean exactly as it would suggest. The definition didn't change.
It doesn't and I've already given you some reasons why it doesn't.
When someone says "Go to hell" it's still telling someone to literally go to hell. What else can you take it as?
Not at all or all those Atheists who don't actually believe in hell need to check themselves.
The insult means exactly as it says. "F'k you" means exactly what it implies. I always thought the "You" was short for "Yourself" in that scenario.
See right there the fact that you can think differently proves my point. Different things to different people.
These insults mean exactly as it would suggest. The definition didn't change.
It doesn't and I've already given you some reasons why it doesn't.
Tell me what else "Go to hell" would imply. Insults are not empty words. They still have a meaning behind them. Go To Hell is telling someone to "Go to hell". Unless you have any other definition. You think those people who throw it out think of it like that? No. They use it as a casual insult. They don't remember the fact there is still a meaning behind each insult thrown out.
No. It would still imply the verb. I said, it would only make sense for the "You" to be "Yourself." Again, no insult is just a dry phrase. You tell me what else it means.
It does. For the last time, these are not "Dry" sayings. No word has no meaning. Telling someone to "SMD" is telling a person to syd. The insult is still there, and it's being used as it should be used. All of those words are insults for that reason. You're telling someone to do some dirty, rude, and belittleling them.
All of those insults ARE MEANT to be like that. It would be ridiculous for them not to be. The point of an insult is to INSULT someone. Telling someone to "F'k you" and "SMD" is an insult. It's meant to be as it says. Rude, ugly, and disrespectful. If I insult someone, it means to be exactly as implied.
@innervenom123: Then to the Superior spider-man discussion thread.
Have you seen SpOck's new suit though? Its almost awesome enough for me to pick up the series again :P
@sideburnguru: Whether you like it or not, words and phrases have different meanings depending on who uses them and how they use it. Nothing else he said supports that he was being sexual.
"Just let it happen" can apply to many things not just rape. it was appropriate in the way he used it. The joke didn't trivialize rape. it didn't even mention the word and nothing else in his statement supports that he was being sexual in any way. context is everything.
@sideburnguru: and "SMD" is an insult. It's meant to be as it says. Rude, ugly, and disrespectful. If I insult someone, it means to be exactly as implied.
Exactly, SMD is an insult. not a sexual joke. just as "Sit down and take it" was a insult, not a sexual reference. No one is debating whether those terms are nice or kind. we are saying it has NOTHING to do with rape.
Slavery is a bigger issue today than anytime in the past, its basically just a numbers and ignorance thing otherwise. Beating a black guy in a video game and saying I owned you could imply a negative racial stereotype, it could imply a joke about slavery, it could imply a malicious racist attitude it could imply an innocent turn of phrase, it could imply trash talk it could imply more than one thing it could imply a lot. It depends. It depends on how a person understands and knows and how a person means and intends. A white guy in Harlem wearing a white board with derogatory racial slurs towards black people could imply a crazy racist guy or it could imply a New York cop having a bad day. Telling a white guy you owned him also works in a similar way given that slaves come in all colors and genders, today and throughout history.
Its the funny thing about subjective language, it depends. Like I personally only use the word owned in an ironic joking sense, because I think its a bit of a silly term and its usually used to exaggerate a persons assertion. Whole competitive thing again combined with emotional and psychological validation. Ever spend time in situations where you have to prioritize accuracy over feelings and subjective terms become useless. Take good science for example, its not about opinions, right or wrong, owning or assumptions or faulty human senses that empower assumptions, using subjective terms leads to inaccurate and faulty conclusions, results, explanatory and predictive power. If you want actual change and actual results and actual solutions and the services, facilities, politicians, people and society we deserve, one has to smarten up about how words work, how other people work without dismissing those things because one wants to feel good about their accusations. If you have ever had an in joke with a friend that could be misconstrued by someone? Welcome to the club. If you have ever said something that sounded way more funny in your head but lame when you said it aloud? Welcome to the club? If you have ever seen someone say something so ignorant you eyebrows raised ala the Rock and your first instinct was to tear into them welcome to the club. Now if you have ever seen a tangled mess of complicated people and societal problems and you wanted actual solutions and figured you had to think about things a bit then actually doing somethings then welcome to the club, but a much more exclusive club not because of restrictions, but because most people don't really want to join this club, not really. Expressing opinions (random arguments and super certain assertions included) is too easy and there is not enough incentive to actually try and do more.
I wish each time a person was raped the media and people rushed in to provide similar conversation and effort in helping them and not just rape victims but victims of similar situations and not just the reaction but the active and proactive steps and measures preventing and ensuring that such crimes stop occurring. Conversation is good but people get tired and a lot of people only feel so strongly about this for a few hours before they stop caring until the media flares up with another story to make people feel good about their superior arguments and opinions and all that. Think more and think more strongly and try and do more stuff relating to thinks you think strongly about.
I am truly torn on this,on the one hand I think that (btw,that is funny that no one actually asked him...I never really thought of that):
I think that it potentially was a rape joke (but he didn't mean it as such),but since rape jokes are kinda common in gaming culture,he didn't actually mean for it to be a rape joke.So it was a rape reference,but he didn't intend for it to be.But it still was,nonetheless.(Gah,I am going in circles,you know what I mean).Here are the points (this might be simpler):
He simply said it only in the context for her to just let his inevitable victory happen.He didn't say it in the context of "I am beating you" in a way to mirror rape,but more in the sense for her to just stop trying because he is going to win shortly....ugh,you know what I mean!!
I really am torn on this.I mean,he most likely didn't intend to mean that,but at the same time it was still a rape reference.But again,perhaps he just said it in a way that wasn't mirroring rape (the way it is used in common gaming culture)...but just in the context of "my victory is inevitable".
But I hate to paint gamers with this stereotypical brush because,just because a lot of gamers use this,doesn't mean that the majority use it on average.I mean,I know many gamers that use this term loosely (and again,without actually intending for the meaning of rape,but having it as a rape reference as in mirroring rape,nonetheless),yet I know many that don't use this term.So I am not going to stereotype gamers,although I know many of them do use this term.
Heh heh I can be longwinded ^_^
Thanks and I enjoyed your reply.
To me if people define things based on perceptions and opinions alone? Then everyone in the world is a rapist. Why not? People with certain neurological disorders can often say offensive things but when people are aware of this they usually understand and are okay with verbal tics that could otherwise be considered offensive. If you teach a small child to say certain words that are considered inappropriate society will usually identify the person who taught the child the word in the wrong rather than the child because the child didn't really mean or understand it. The person attempting to make the joke probably didn't mean to cause this uproar nor understand that it would happen. I even say attempted the joke because technically speaking the definition of a joke can mean "a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter" but I didn't laugh. Then again some people did. So is it a joke or not? Well in the context of me and them it was an attempted joke most likely but for a person that laughed it was a joke. Its almost as if things can be more than one thing heh heh. Which is the point, if 80 people out of 100 people don't laugh is it still a joke? Sure depending on how you define a joke and understanding and knowing language and the intents of a person as well as reaction. Like if the person didn't intend to cause amusement or laughter but amusement or laughter did occur that would be unintentional humor and not a joke.
Flipping things around now because you can discuss a similar thing as far as the context and meaning of rape joke. Given what I perceive as a difference in humor between me and the person who attempted to make the joke i could assume that they probably don't know about about rape, or terms rapists use during rape or how triggering works but thats just me assuming. For all I know this person may have spent more time doing good for rape victims than everyone in this thread combined and really sensitive to the issue and feeling absolutely horrible that in the comfort of a friends presence (and microphones and hundreds of people) something he said got misconstrued to sounded offensive. I don't know and I am okay with saying I don't know and because I don't know I won't claim to know or use words that appeal and rely on a false sense of security to paint myself in any sense that the luxury of certainty can afford.
So in that sense I can't in good conscious call it a rape joke in an objective sincere sense, only in a sense I know that people can and do assume and infer a lot instead of critically questioning themselves and well yeah again asking the person what they meant. How is Microsoft relevant here for example? If this happened at a smaller company's demo news and media probably wouldn't be all over this but the fact its high profile helps "sell this story" and that story invokes strong reactions from people but not always strong thinking.
Rape jokes are common in gaming and a lot of places I agree, and its because some people are okay with taking ownership in rape jokes and all other manner of offensive jokes and thats usually the best way to sincerely recognize a jokes theme as in when a person clarifies that that is what they meant. I know people who have been raped who make rape jokes because to them its a way of empowerment and a sign that they won't let peoples perceptions affect what they know and intend but I also know people who have been raped who get anxious and nervous when people talk about sex or violence or just small things and they get fearful and nervous and uncomfortable and they are still trying their best to learn how to cope and not be so sensitive and those very different approaches are okay and fine and just one way people differ in attitudes and approaches to life. Also a reason why people shouldn't try to overgeneralize when speaking on behalf of groups and why intent and actions should be the priority of an individuals perception and sense of others.
I think I understand what you are saying - that there is what he intended to say, what we know of gaming culture and how people understand and know things and those can all be valid as far as perceptions so we are in a situation where its fair to apply multiple meanings to a sentiment/action/articulated joke? I agree and I think in one way its good you are torn, because its a clash of ideas and thoughts as far as how we interact with each other and everyone either day right? Assuming is necessarily part of life and we all want to be represented accurately and not falsely. ^_^
Some comedians use very sensitive and offensive materials in their routines, many are actually intelligent enough, funny enough and popular enough to A. Be funny and C. Make some people actually think about certain concepts as they relate to ourselves and our ideas about the world. A lot of your average gamers or comic fans can't do that as well and so the attempted joke has no redeeming value in the eyes of many. Not only that many retired comedians have often criticized how many audiences never really got some of their more offensive jokes and how they regretted them. It can definitely lead to situations where people hear something they think is funny and try to reproduce it without being funny and or as deep as say as a comedians delivery on the same subject matter. So to me its not really about rape. Its about intelligence and reason and understanding. If I am okay with people who have been raped telling jokes about rape because it helps them I am okay with people joking about rape. That being said I prefer that all people in general try to be reasonable, try to be intelligent, try to be compassionate and understanding and empathetic and patience because while the chances of a rape joke or a racist joke or a sexist joke are likely to have a higher chance of offending people? A creative person can make jokes about anything offensive and some people will be offended at anything. So when we exist in a situation where people will try to be offensive about everything and some people will be offended by anything, intent actually matters a lot. Thats my main criticism of that earlier link, it had too many fallacious arguments mixed amongst its very sound valid and credible well articulated arguments. So I think its a great piece as far as illustrating to someone who disagrees with its premise why many are up in arms about this, but it doesn't really do a good job explaining why people react to such things differently and how to overcome those differences for the positive benefits of everyone. In that sense I think you did a better job, because you are aware of the cultural problem that exists but you know not to stereotype people because of it.
@deranged_midget: I get what you mean, but even if it was said to a man, it would still be a rape joke just not as inappropriate. My point though, is that I don't even think he meant it as a rape joke or to be malicious, more just like a nerd joke.
Again, we are in disagreement Razz! That's just how gamers talk to each other, despite not entirely being in that context. It's poor, crude and competitive humour.
But I can agree to disagree :)
I think we are in disagreement, if a particular group wants to have their own lexicon then that is fine, but when they don't put a filter on for the rest of the world it can get confusing. A lot of my husband's friends are in the military and sometimes when they get together I have no idea what they are saying, but some of them realize that and start to talk like the rest of us. The same should apply to gamers I think, that if they want to interact in a specific way among themselves, that it is fine, just that if they introduce their own lingo into everyday speech that their is bound to be some confusion, and confusion can result in people's feeling being hurt, even if unintentionally
@pooty
Some words and phrases do. However, the insults YOU mentioned as examples can only be taken in one such way. The insult isn't empty. If you tell someone to "Go to hell", the point of the insult is telling that person to go to hell. There's no secondary meanings to alot of them. Whether the insult is meant to be harsh or not, each insult impacts a harsh meaning. "SMD" "Go f_ yourself" All of these insults mean exactly what they would imply. Whether you mean them or not. Definition still stands.
Someone else JUST said it. It wasn't INTENDED to be a rape joke, however he still used a rape joke. How anyone can honestly say "SMD" is not a sexual insult/reference just blows my damn mind.
@sideburnguru: I'm a heterosexual man. When I get mad at another dude and say "SMD" are you saying I really want him to get on his knees and put my penis in his mouth? When Rappers say it is that what it means? Here is a word that should clear this up:
implied additional meaning: an additional sense or senses associated with or suggested by a word or phrase. Connotations are sometimes, but not always, fixed, and are often subjective.
Many words have a connotation and denotation meaning? Which meaning was being used in the video? Connotation or denotation?
@pooty
Whether you meant for it to be serious or not, you still said it. It was not a command, it was an insult. The insult "SMD" is still telling someone to SMD.
How could that phrase be a connotation. In order for that word to BE a connotation, you'd need a second meaning for the insult. So, tell me what else it means.
Was the, "Just let it happen" phrase suppose to be the rape joke? Cause to be honest I've heard and seen that phrase used more in terms of choking someone out with a sleeper or rear naked choke then I have in terms of rape. Guess it depends on where your own mind is at.
Was the, "Just let it happen" phrase suppose to be the rape joke? Cause to be honest I've heard and seen that phrase used more in terms of choking someone out with a sleeper or rear naked choke then I have in terms of rape. Guess it depends on where your own mind is at.
"Just lay down and take it." combined with "Just let it happen." Really have no place in a game such as that.
Was the, "Just let it happen" phrase suppose to be the rape joke? Cause to be honest I've heard and seen that phrase used more in terms of choking someone out with a sleeper or rear naked choke then I have in terms of rape. Guess it depends on where your own mind is at.
"Just lay down and take it." combined with "Just let it happen." Really have no place in a game such as that.
Actually wasnt the exact quote, "Just let it happen it'll be over soon?" Maybe I missed something but I didnt hear anything about "laying down and taking it."
@sideburnguru: In order for that word to BE a connotation, you'd need a second meaning for the insult. So, tell me what else it means.
SMD denotation means: perform oral sex
SMD connotation means: F*ck You
@sideburnguru: Tell me what else "Go to hell" would imply.
It could mean leave me alone, go to hell literally, go to hell figuratively, etcetera.
Insults are not empty words.
Nor are they full either they just are. We are what give them meaning and power.
Unless you have any other definition.
I believe we already covered this.
You think those people who throw it out think of it like that? No. They use it as a casual insult. They don't remember the fact there is still a meaning behind each insult thrown out.
Exactly thank you for helping with my point. I thought you were arguing against me? The fact that it means something different to them means it has a different meaning regardless if it also has another meaning. It doesn't even have to be a case of not remembering.
Which brings us back to my original statement.
"As much as people need to understand what they say might mean something else to others those others should also realize what they hear might mean something else to the people saying it."
No. It would still imply the verb. I said, it would only make sense for the "You" to be "Yourself." . You tell me what else it means.
You're missing the point. But ignoring the actual point it doesn't have to be yourself. It could just be you. Doesn't have to make sense to you.
It could mean I hope bad sh't happens to you whatever. Hell if you don't want to go the insult route it could just mean I want to F'k you. As a crude way to put it it wouldn't be an insult. Offensive? Maybe but it depends on context and the people involved.
Again, no insult is just a dry phrase
Again not true. Not only for the different meaning to different people but that also actually ignores lots of context.
It does.For the last time, these are not "Dry" sayings. No word has no meaning.
It doesn't and I certainly hope it is the last time you continue saying something that isn't true.
Telling someone to "SMD" is telling a person to syd. The insult is still there, and it's being used as it should be used. All of those words are insults for that reason. You're telling someone to do some dirty, rude, and belittleling them.
Might I remind you this discussion wasn't even about whether or not it was SMD was an insult or not. It was if it could mean something other than actually SMD. The answer is yes. It could mean and be used to say F'k off, go to hell, or a way to say get off my back in a crude way.
Again I'll repeat my original statement.
"As much as people need to understand what they say might mean something else to others those others should also realize what they hear might mean something else to the people saying it."
@sideburnguru: In order for that word to BE a connotation, you'd need a second meaning for the insult. So, tell me what else it means.
SMD denotation means: perform oral sex
SMD connotation means: F*ck You
^^^^^^^^^
My bad for the misquote. Watched it yesterday for the first time, didn't rewatch it today. I still feel as though it's suggestive. How the whole taunting line goes, from both sides makes it feel socially awkward. That whole X-Box conference was awkward though.
And "f'k you" comes back to being a connotation, at least in your opinion, right?. You say that, yet I still don't believe you. For how many past generations, the term meant ONE THING. Whether it is "slang" now doesn't help. If you tell someone to "SMD", it will be considered in one meaning. An insult, nontheless. The fact you're even defending the use of telling someone to "SMD" says alot about who I'm even debating with.
I don't see how my one point "helped" yours. I said there was A meaning, not different meanings. Whether or not it was true on untrue, I never claimed there were different meanings in that statement.
So, you're basically saying someone should always remember that due to modern day slang, the long time meaning of the word could be moot because the trash in our society decided to add a seconday meaning to make it more acceptable. That's always nice.
No, that doesn't change the context of ANY word. EVERY word has a meaning, just as every phrase has a meaning. You saying "That's not true" is the context changer.
So, let's just say I'm wrong. That means that slang just makes our society seem like bigger trash due to giving words that SHOULD have a direct meaning such as "SMD" a secondary meaning.
That's always a nice thing to try and accept. Good to know we're staying classy. Trash supporting trash, with slang meanings that take away the point of what used to be known as a direct statement and insult. I'd love to end the debate, and even if I did, as I said. It only makes society look shitty that we're accepting the fact that people are totally fine with others saying "SMD" but having a more -acceptable- meaning.
Guess that can be saved for another argument.
I think we are in disagreement, if a particular group wants to have their own lexicon then that is fine, but when they don't put a filter on for the rest of the world it can get confusing. A lot of my husband's friends are in the military and sometimes when they get together I have no idea what they are saying, but some of them realize that and start to talk like the rest of us. The same should apply to gamers I think, that if they want to interact in a specific way among themselves, that it is fine, just that if they introduce their own lingo into everyday speech that their is bound to be some confusion, and confusion can result in people's feeling being hurt, even if unintentionally
That's a little skewed in my opinion because "gamers" aren't the only groups of people who have their own "lingo" nor is it limited to them whatsoever. Regardless of how far that extends, E3 is a press conference for gamers, not the random person walking by. They aim to appeal solely to a specific type of consumer so whatever lingo or terminology that is used, is easily recognizable by the community and crowd at large.
Personally though, in no way do I believe it was intentionally meant as a rape joke, especially considering that the two people involved during the demonstration are colleagues. I'm going to go out on a complete whim and assume that the majority of people sharing their thoughts on this thread are guilty of one of the following:
For one, if anyone has even once played a fighting game, let alone any competitive game, that type of banter between players is very, very common.
"Come on, you have to practice more when you get on stage in front of a million people"
"I can't even block correctly and you're too fast"
"Just let it happen, it'll be over soon"
*Audience laughs*
"You have a fight stick!"
"You like those"
"No, I don't like this"
I can understand if someone was completely unaware to what was actually happening that they would assume it was improperly or inappropriately stated but regarding this situation, it was ingorantly taken out of context and labelled as a "rape innuendo". To be honest, I think that's absolutely ridiculous considering what was occurring.
so when a dude wants to fight you and they say F#ck you, you think they want to have sex??????!!!!.
when a dude wants to fight you and they say SMD you think they want you to perform oral sex on them?????
When an atheist says OMG or "go to hell" do you think they really mean that?????
if you don't understand connotations or secondary meanings of words... i don't have the patience to teach you
I'm done here.
@pooty: If we're playing the "insult" game, I shouldn't have the patience with a man who defends trash, and accepts the crude nature. You still have yet to tell me what kind of "society" Eazy-E influenced. Please. I have a good idea of what he influenced. Sure you want to say it was a positive thing?
When I hear someone say or I say "Go to hell" I mean just that. Do I actually want the person to? No. Does the meaning still stand? Yes.
Again, someone saying "F'k you" and "I 'f'k you" are two different things DUE to the "I". Only way I ever thought of "F'k you" was just "Go f'k yourself".
I understood the connotation of "Oh my God". However, most hardcore athiests I've met hate using it. Then again, the hardcore athiests I know hate everything.
You deem all of these as acceptable. You can't talk down to anyone. Lose the ego, and stay classy.
@pooty: @sideburnguru: what are you two talking about at this point?
@betatesthighlander1
At this point, nothing. Here's to hoping the debate is done. It pratically turned into an insult battle and on what we both think is "acceptable".
I turn arrogant when other people get arrogant. That is all.
I think we are in disagreement, if a particular group wants to have their own lexicon then that is fine, but when they don't put a filter on for the rest of the world it can get confusing. A lot of my husband's friends are in the military and sometimes when they get together I have no idea what they are saying, but some of them realize that and start to talk like the rest of us. The same should apply to gamers I think, that if they want to interact in a specific way among themselves, that it is fine, just that if they introduce their own lingo into everyday speech that their is bound to be some confusion, and confusion can result in people's feeling being hurt, even if unintentionally
That's a little skewed in my opinion because "gamers" aren't the only groups of people who have their own "lingo" nor is it limited to them whatsoever. Regardless of how far that extends, E3 is a press conference for gamers, not the random person walking by. They aim to appeal solely to a specific type of consumer so whatever lingo or terminology that is used, is easily recognizable by the community and crowd at large.
Personally though, in no way do I believe it was intentionally meant as a rape joke, especially considering that the two people involved during the demonstration are colleagues. I'm going to go out on a complete whim and assume that the majority of people sharing their thoughts on this thread are guilty of one of the following:
For one, if anyone has even once played a fighting game, let alone any competitive game, that type of banter between players is very, very common.
"Come on, you have to practice more when you get on stage in front of a million people"
"I can't even block correctly and you're too fast"
"Just let it happen, it'll be over soon"
*Audience laughs*
"You have a fight stick!"
"You like those"
"No, I don't like this"
I can understand if someone was completely unaware to what was actually happening that they would assume it was improperly or inappropriately stated but regarding this situation, it was ingorantly taken out of context and labelled as a "rape innuendo". To be honest, I think that's absolutely ridiculous considering what was occurring.
As said,I don't really think he meant for it to be a rape joke.However,the problem is more on the lines of strictly what he said,not really what he meant (because we know that,most likely,he didn't actually mean for it to be a rape reference,but it still was nonetheless).However,context makes ALL of the difference as to the meaning of the phrase.
Strictly,you can clearly think of it as a mirroring to rape.However,in context (and btw,I think the crowd thought he was joking when he actually wasn't. Sometimes when I talk with my friends,I say something that they completely take out of context and assume that I meant it as an immature joke.) I think he was just saying that his victory was inevitable and she would lose any second now.But still,I am kinda torn a bit.I really hope that we can actually see what his thoughts were,rather than some cheap apoloIogy (maybe for something that was put into a completely different definition than what he actually meant).....or it is possible that he DID intend it as a joke....And I am not really sure what she means by "No I don't like this".Did she have a fight stick as well? This isn't really relevant,I just wanna know...
EDIT:
Also I think that his intention and what he said is also important.
However,even if he didn't mean for it to be a rape reference,it still had the meaning.However,context does make a difference because it can also be seen that (especially in this context) that he was just saying that he was going to win.Not in a way of him asserting some sort of dominance in a way of mirroring rape.
But again,a bit torn on both sides for reasons already stated....
I am getting tired of using that word.........
@pooty: @sideburnguru: what are you two talking about at this point?
can we all just laugh over this with pancakes?!
I hate unnecessary fighting (unless it's a fighting game)
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment