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#1 Edited by jeanlucpicard (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

This guy said some bad words about obama on facebook and is getting other-than-honorable discharge. Here's the link below.
 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/gary-stein-marine-obama-facebook_n_1453031.html?icid=maing-grid7|aim|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D155268
 
 
( im using parchment v1. so if you can't see the link again im sorry)
 
My thoughts on this are, If you're defending your country you should be allowed to say what you want about the president. WHo cares what it is. Obama is the president, not a soldier.  In conclusion in nice words, this is just stupid.
#2 Posted by cyberninja (10413 posts) - - Show Bio

This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real. 

#3 Posted by _Black (2302 posts) - - Show Bio

I understand the reason for his dismissal, but kudos for speaking your opinion.

#4 Posted by Mercy_ (92075 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#5 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@cyberninja said:
This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real. 
Seriously. Every time I see people b*tch about their jobs or bosses on Facebook, I always cringe because that is so incredibly unprofessional.
#6 Posted by Mercy_ (92075 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch said:

@cyberninja said:
This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.
Seriously. Every time I see people b*tch about their jobs or bosses on Facebook, I always cringe because that is so incredibly unprofessional.

To reaffirm this point, my aunt is an ICU nurse (actually head nurse). Last summer her hospital fired over twenty nurses for starting a hospital Facebook group and discussing patients and diagnoses.

Nothing is safe when you put it on the internet and if you don't want repercussions for something that you foolishly said, you probably shouldn't say it in the eyes of the public.

Moderator
#7 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyberninja said:

This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.

This.

#8 Posted by King Saturn (222790 posts) - - Show Bio
@cyberninja said:
This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real. 
Well I Saw Stone Cold Steve Austin use The Stunner on Vince McMahon one time and then give him the Finger... :P
#9 Posted by SuperTide (15600 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

@cyberninja said:
This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.
Well I Saw Stone Cold Steve Austin use The Stunner on Vince McMahon one time and then give him the Finger... :P
#10 Posted by nickthedevil (11087 posts) - - Show Bio

How Classy

#11 Posted by primepower53 (5686 posts) - - Show Bio

So much for free speech...

Seriously, I don't care if Obama was his boss, at least give him some leeway as he's the one risking his life out there. Not Obama, or any other politician, for that matter who hide behind desks while they send others into combat for their lives with little to no viable reason *cough*Bush*cough*

#12 Posted by nickthedevil (11087 posts) - - Show Bio

No, theres rules to being a soldier. Once you enlist, the commander in chief is the higher up.

#13 Posted by ssejllenrad (12778 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

@cyberninja said:
This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.
Well I Saw Stone Cold Steve Austin use The Stunner on Vince McMahon one time and then give him the Finger... :P

Brilliant reply.. Absolutely brilliant.

#14 Posted by PowerHerc (78172 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanlucpicard said:

This guy said some bad words about obama on facebook and is getting other-than-honorable discharge. My thoughts on this are, If you're defending your country you should be allowed to say what you want about the president. WHo cares what it is. Obama is the president, not a soldier. In conclusion in nice words, this is just stupid.

I agree.

The Marine is serving his country and putting his life on the line. That should give him the right to criticize the President who, incidentally, has never served in the armed forces and has no idea what that kind of commitment really means.

Freedom of speech is an right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America; to bad it doesn't apply to those trained, qualified and most ready to defend it and also the most likely to pay the ultimate price while doing so.

#15 Posted by buttersdaman000 (8774 posts) - - Show Bio

The military aint a democracy. You give up certain rights when you sign those papers. The dude is lucky he got other than honorable....

#16 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4637 posts) - - Show Bio

He should have set his status to Private.

#17 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyberninja said:

This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.

He is not our boss we are his.

#18 Posted by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@primepower53 said:

So much for free speech...

Seriously, I don't care if Obama was his boss, at least give him some leeway as he's the one risking his life out there. Not Obama, or any other politician, for that matter who hide behind desks while they send others into combat for their lives with little to no viable reason *cough*Bush*cough*

He is a military man. As a veteran I can definitely say that the military is paying you to protect the rights to opinions and not have them. Soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines aren't afforded a lot of the rights that they protect; having a opinion about the commander in chief is one of those rights.

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@cyberninja said:

This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.

He is not our boss we are his.

Wrong. He is the boss of all servicemen and women. As much as Democrats hated Bush they still had to follow his orders. If the tables were turned the same thing would've happened. This guy violated the UCMJ and got punished.

#19 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher: That still doesn't change my opinion, but I have a question for you that's kind of off-topic because I myself am interested in joining.

If the time came when you as a military man were ordered to attack American civilians (assuming you are American), would you? Like would you choose your government over your people?

#20 Posted by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@Night Thrasher: That still doesn't change my opinion, but I have a question for you that's kind of off-topic because I myself am interested in joining.

If the time came when you as a military man were ordered to attack American civilians (assuming you are American), would you? Like would you choose your government over your people?

You don't have to obey an unlawful order. People get that mixed up. If you are targeting domestic terrorists then of course you follow orders because they are considered a threat to the nation (thanks in part to The Patriot Act). But I got in trouble a lot when I was in for having an opinion so I'm speaking from experience.

#21 Posted by jinxuandi (594 posts) - - Show Bio

If I publicly criticize my boss' politics on Facebook or Twitter, I stand a good chance of getting fired or at least severely reprimanded. There's no real reason why that standard shouldn't apply when the boss is the most powerful man in the world.

#22 Edited by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher: Not foreign civilians, but domestic. Let's say another Civil War broke out tomorrow and American Civilians were attacking bases of operations such as the White House and CIA and FBI headquarters throughout the country. If you were still enlisted what would you do?

I'm only asking because after I talked to my grandfather about this (who served in the Corps) he asked me this question. Naturally I said I would turn my gun against the government and he replied that because of that I wasn't Army material.

#23 Posted by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@Night Thrasher: Not foreign civilians, but domestic. Let's say another Civil War broke out tomorrow and American Civilians were attacking bases of operations such as the White House and CIA and FBI headquarters throughout the country. If you were still enlisted what would you do?

I'm only asking because after I talked to my grandfather about this (who served in the Corps) he asked me this question. Naturally I said I would turn my gun against the government and he replied that because of that I wasn't Army material.

Your grandpa is right. You serve the president, who serves the people. Attacking the White House or any government facility is considered an attack on the people. If you actually attacked the people directly then really your just a mass murderer. But to make an attack against all of us you have to attack the symbolic head which of course is the President. A terrorist isn't just someone from a foreign country, an american citizen can also be a terrorist (think unibomber or KKK). I'll give you a comic book example. If there where HYDRA agents attacking the president would you side with them. Because you essentially just said you would.

#24 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher: So you would rather slaughter every single American citizen before you would turn against your own government? Even if they did something super radical? What if Obama decided one day *knock on wood* that we all had to be chipped like animals and the people revolted. That's what im asking.. A terrorist threat could be very much domestic, like you are saying, but who is to say who exactly is the terrorist? What if Obama was head of Hydra. What would you do then?

#25 Posted by Paracelsus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Harsh though it seems I can't find it in my heart to find much sympathy for this Marine. Firstly the reason for the ban on publicly criticizing your commander in chief(in this case the President of the United States) is to keep the armed forces politically neutral and under the command of the elected civilian government(whatever Sgt Stein may have thought privately of Obama's policies). Similar restrictions are to be found not just in Queen's Regulations of HM Forces but other armed forces throughout the Western world- nuff said!

Terry

#26 Posted by joshmightbe (24097 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER: Tonight on Fox News Obama-Head of Hydra

#27 Edited by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@Night Thrasher: So you would rather slaughter every single American citizen before you would turn against your own government? Even if they did something super radical? What if Obama decided one day *knock on wood* that we all had to be chipped like animals and the people revolted. That's what im asking.. A terrorist threat could be very much domestic, like you are saying, but who is to say who exactly is the terrorist? What if Obama was head of Hydra. What would you do then?

I think your taking your partisanship to an extreme. If the president were to be a terrorist then yes, I would fight against it. But, my president now, nor has any before him violated that trust. Before it even got to that point I would trust that my senate and Supreme Court would do their jobs and stop it. I think your trying to make an anti-Obama case rather than a free speech case. I am not and was not by any means a ditto-head who always does what I am told but I do believe the Constitution and UCMJ have a purpose and believe in them both fully.

#28 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER: Tonight on Fox News Obama-Head of Hydra

lol

You heard it here first.

#29 Posted by joshmightbe (24097 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER: Red Skull is gonna be so pissed

#30 Posted by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Why did you have to mention Faux News?

#31 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@Night Thrasher: So you would rather slaughter every single American citizen before you would turn against your own government? Even if they did something super radical? What if Obama decided one day *knock on wood* that we all had to be chipped like animals and the people revolted. That's what im asking.. A terrorist threat could be very much domestic, like you are saying, but who is to say who exactly is the terrorist? What if Obama was head of Hydra. What would you do then?

I think your taking your partisanship to an extreme. If the president were to be a terrorist then yes, I would fight against it. But, my president now, nor has any before him violated that trust. Before it even got to that point I would trust that my senate and Supreme Court would do their jobs and stop it. I think your trying to make an anti-Obama case rather than a free speech case. I am not and was not by any means a ditto-head who always does what I am told but I do believe the Constitution and UCMJ have a purpose and believe in them both fully.

Well I only asked that because I was asked the same question (actually a more extreme one that involved genocide O__O), and I only used Obama as an example because he's our president right now. I'm actually Pro-Obama kind of. When you mentioned you were a service man I thought it would be wise to get your opinion on the subject because I wanted to enlist before today.

#32 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2887 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER: Red Skull is gonna be so pissed

lmao!

#33 Posted by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@Night Thrasher said:

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

@Night Thrasher: So you would rather slaughter every single American citizen before you would turn against your own government? Even if they did something super radical? What if Obama decided one day *knock on wood* that we all had to be chipped like animals and the people revolted. That's what im asking.. A terrorist threat could be very much domestic, like you are saying, but who is to say who exactly is the terrorist? What if Obama was head of Hydra. What would you do then?

I think your taking your partisanship to an extreme. If the president were to be a terrorist then yes, I would fight against it. But, my president now, nor has any before him violated that trust. Before it even got to that point I would trust that my senate and Supreme Court would do their jobs and stop it. I think your trying to make an anti-Obama case rather than a free speech case. I am not and was not by any means a ditto-head who always does what I am told but I do believe the Constitution and UCMJ have a purpose and believe in them both fully.

Well I only asked that because I was asked the same question (actually a more extreme one that involved genocide O__O), and I only used Obama as an example because he's our president right now. I'm actually Pro-Obama kind of. When you mentioned you were a service man I thought it would be wise to get your opinion on the subject because I wanted to enlist before today.

It's cool. I served three and a half years in the Navy and it was a good time for the most part. You just have to remember that you are enlisted to protect rights and not enjoy them. Freedom of speech when it comes to the commander in chief is frowned upon and can be disciplined under the UCMJ as mentioned earlier. This is of course because the military is a neutral entity. But, unlawful orders, such as genocide, is definitely not one of those follow or else orders. For example, if we were both soldiers in Afghanistan and our base was attacked and we fought off the insurgents and captured one. If as my commanding officer you ordered me to execute him then I'm not obligated to follow that order because it's a violation of the Geneva Act. Common sense comes into play a little but mostly it's do as your told unless it violates the law domestic or international war policy (i.e Geneva or United Nations). You defend the people by doing as the government asks because the government is the will of the people. If the people don't like what the government does in their name then they vote for a different representative to serve in their name.

#34 Posted by joshmightbe (24097 posts) - - Show Bio

@Night Thrasher: Fox news is the greatest source of comedy the world has ever known

#35 Posted by Night Thrasher (3447 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Night Thrasher: Fox news is the greatest source of comedy the world has ever known

Need a damn like button!

#36 Posted by Lunacyde (17387 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanlucpicard said:

This guy said some bad words about obama on facebook and is getting other-than-honorable discharge. Here's the link below.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/gary-stein-marine-obama-facebook_n_1453031.html?icid=maing-grid7|aim|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D155268
( im using parchment v1. so if you can't see the link again im sorry) My thoughts on this are, If you're defending your country you should be allowed to say what you want about the president. WHo cares what it is. Obama is the president, not a soldier. In conclusion in nice words, this is just stupid.

I think he should be able o criticize the President. HOWEVER if he say he will refuse to take Obamas orders he is no longer doing his job and should be discharged.

#37 Edited by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry folks, but there is really no two ways about this. The US Navy's (the Army has a similar regulation book AP something or other but it's been awhile, I had to look this one up) Joint Publication 3-61 (or JP 3-61) Public Affairs. Which explicitly states that a sailor is not permitted to openly criticize his UNIT commander, much less his Commander in Chief. These violations fall under what is called the UCMJ or Uniform Code of Military Justice and can lead to an Article 15 (non Judicial Punishment...basically unit based punishment without a Courts Martial...which would have had this Sailor doing anything from losing rank, pay, to scraping barnacles off the sides of ships for two weeks to a month), or a Courts Martial, which can lead to jail time or dismissal from the Navy (as was the case here). I think the punishment was overly severe, which is not my call, but if I had to bet they were looking to make an example out of this guy. Everything that happened to this Sailor was completely legal, he showed poor judgement of a regulation that pretty much everyone in the Army is aware of. I can't speak for the Navy, but I would doubt they aren't informed of this regulation any, or much less than we were. Army guys did this, and some of them got in trouble for it. The theory of not openly criticizing your Commanders is it breaks down morale and makes fighting the war harder. Whether this is true or not, I have mixed feelings . However, this is pretty cut and dried, the Sailer broke military law, and was punished for it. Sorry, but (other that, what I think, was an overly severe sentence) that's REALLY all there is to this).

#38 Posted by aztek_the_lost (30740 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm amazed this guy could be in the military for nine years and not know this was coming, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true about him wanting to leave the military in as dramatic a fashion as possible to become a radio host. You can't be in the military and do this, it doesn't make sense and defeats the purpose of a military. At least if you joined willingly.

Moderator
#39 Posted by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio

@aztek_the_lost: I THINK I understand what you mean by "if he joined willingly". On the other hand, it's an all volunteer military. Could you explain what you mean. I seem to be stuck on dense a little today :)

#40 Posted by Jezer (2845 posts) - - Show Bio

@PowerHerc said:

@jeanlucpicard said:

This guy said some bad words about obama on facebook and is getting other-than-honorable discharge. My thoughts on this are, If you're defending your country you should be allowed to say what you want about the president. WHo cares what it is. Obama is the president, not a soldier. In conclusion in nice words, this is just stupid.

I agree.

The Marine is serving his country and putting his life on the line. That should give him the right to criticize the President who, incidentally, has never served in the armed forces and has no idea what that kind of commitment really means.

Freedom of speech is an right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America; to bad it doesn't apply to those trained, qualified and most ready to defend it and also the most likely to pay the ultimate price while doing so.

Freedom of speech does not give you freedom from consequences. Don't pretend like the guy didn't have freedom of speech just because he got punished for exercising it.

#41 Edited by Inverno (12821 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@Night Thrasher: Fox news is the greatest source of comedy the world has ever known

True dat.

@Jezer said:

@PowerHerc said:

@jeanlucpicard said:

This guy said some bad words about obama on facebook and is getting other-than-honorable discharge. My thoughts on this are, If you're defending your country you should be allowed to say what you want about the president. WHo cares what it is. Obama is the president, not a soldier. In conclusion in nice words, this is just stupid.

I agree.

The Marine is serving his country and putting his life on the line. That should give him the right to criticize the President who, incidentally, has never served in the armed forces and has no idea what that kind of commitment really means.

Freedom of speech is an right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America; to bad it doesn't apply to those trained, qualified and most ready to defend it and also the most likely to pay the ultimate price while doing so.

Freedom of speech does not give you freedom from consequences. Don't pretend like the guy didn't have freedom of speech just because he got punished for exercising it.

You sir deserves a medal.

#42 Posted by Rogan2112 (600 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jezer: I WISH I'd said something that short, sweet, and amazingly profound. Good on ya, dude.

#43 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

Love the radicals on this site.

#44 Posted by Trodorne (2569 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch said:

@cyberninja said:
This guy is a marine, and Obama is the commander-in-chief AKA his boss, how many jobs do you know where you can insult your boss publicly and expect no consequences? Get real.
Seriously. Every time I see people b*tch about their jobs or bosses on Facebook, I always cringe because that is so incredibly unprofessional.

Yep these quotes get my stamp of approval.....

now where did i put that stamp....

#45 Posted by Nefarious (17622 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not surprised. Obama always gets criticized.

#46 Posted by k4tzm4n (35172 posts) - - Show Bio
@texasdeathmatch said:
Love the radicals on this site.
I MADE SOME TOTALLY FREE STATEMENTS, BUT THEN BIG GOVERNMENT TOOK AWAY MY POSTS.
Staff
#47 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n: FREEDOM OF SPEECH MAN. I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT, TO WHOEVER I WANT. 

'MERICA.

#48 Edited by k4tzm4n (35172 posts) - - Show Bio
@texasdeathmatch: WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T BRING MY GUN INTO WHOLE FOODS?   
 

'UMIRKA

Staff
#49 Posted by SuperTide (15600 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by TheWitchingHour (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

The military has very strict regulations about political dissent for good reason. In wartime situations even a little bit of doubt in the chain of command can have serious reprecussions. And Obama is the top of that chain.