Male Supremacy in Comics

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ZhuRong

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#1  Edited By ZhuRong

Are males generally written more powerful than women in comics due to everyday standards? Do you feel women have been objectified and downplayed in fiction? I don't usually do blogs on topics like this but I had to step up. I feel once a powerful female is established, she is automatically watered down to look inferior to a male because writers feel they will pose a threat. This ideology can found in all tiers of power level.

From the beginning, American comic book publishers have struggled with the idea of creating viable and acceptable female versions of the super-powered male staples like Superman, Batman and Captain America.

Back in 1975 the Wonder Woman television series gave thousands of imaginative girls and young women a superheroine that was a force to reckon with. She was faster and stronger than most men, more beautiful than most women and wiser than most kings. Though the version of Wonder Woman portrayed by Linda Carter was campy and tongue-in-cheek, it was seen as a start down the road toward equality in comic books and science fiction television and film franchises.

Things didn’t quite go as planned. Since then, there have been no television shows based on female characters from Marvel or DC Comics, although when it comes to films, we had Catwoman and Electra. But they were both grand disappointments, and we have been left waiting on a new TV series based on a female comic book character for nearly 40 years.

From the beginning, American comic book publishers have struggled with the idea of creating viable and acceptable female versions of the super-powered male staples like Superman, Batman and Captain America. The first popular female superhero was Fantomah. Her tagline? “Mystery Woman of the Jungle.” She was created by Fletcher Hanks and first appeared in Jungle Comics No. 2 in 1940. With all these references to jungles and mysteries, it’s a bit of a surprise that she wasn’t black and was depicted as a tall blonde whose face transformed into a blue skull when her powers were activated.

She was predated, however, by Sheena, the Jungle Queen, who debuted in her own comic book in 1937. Both Fantomah and Sheena predated Wonder Woman, who first appeared in Wonder Woman No. 1 in 1941. All three of these women—all white--were clearly inspired by the Western world’s fascination with Africa and other far-off lands around the dawn of the 20th century. Sheena’s comic book tagline reads, “Trek the jungle trails of killer beasts and savage men with Sheena, Wild Beauty of the Congo.” She was basically a female version of Tarzan, who first appeared in the Edgar Rice Burroughs novel Tarzan of the Apes in 1912.

An interesting fact about Wonder Woman creator, and inventor of the polygraph, William Moulton Marston is that it was his wife, Elizabeth, a prominent psychologist, who suggested the character, according to a 2001 issue of Boston University’s alumni publication. In fact, Marston believed she represented the quintessential Wonder Woman of his day and based many of the fictional character’s attributes on her.

Wonder Woman and the female superheroes who appeared in comic books before her share several similarities: They were stronger than most men and came from some far-off, exotic location. Wonder Woman is an Amazon princess from mystical Themyscira, while both Sheena and Fantomah are from the Congo and ancient Egypt, respectively. Yes, Africa was considered a far-off and mysterious location by many in the Western world during the early 20th century, and that mindset remains largely unchanged today.

Though Wonder Woman was created with good intentions, it was still written by a staff of white men who did not have a clue how to portray a strong female figure. Wonder Woman was clearly a revolutionary character in the 1940s, but misogynist viewpoints would creep in. For example, Wonder Woman editor and writer Sheldon Mayer expressed consternation about Wonder Woman’s weaknesses inspiring bondage imagery that had been a part of the Wonder Woman lore from the very beginning. If her bracelets are chained together, she becomes as weak as a normal person. When they are broken, she loses control of herself; she once stated that “power without self-control tears a girl to pieces.” Even the magic lasso, which some felt symbolized feminism, was often used against her by adversaries, thus symbolizing the misogynist view that feminism was more of a hindrance to women than it was worth.

In the 1970s, DC Comics implemented its in-house editorial policy regarding women, putting in writing a patriarchal stance on women in comic books: “The inclusion of females in stories is specifically discouraged. Women, when used in plot structure, should be secondary in importance and should be drawn realistically, without exaggeration of feminine physical qualities.”

Despite the code, female superheroes continued to proliferate in comic books throughout the decade. But the writers were products of their time and continued writing characters along stereotypical lines during the heyday of the feminist movement. Characters like Thundra, a Marvel rip-off of Wonder Woman, was from an alternate timeline where the sexes were divided into warring factions, and the original Man-Killer was anti-male. Batwoman, introduced in 1956 in Detective Comics No. 233, used powder puffs, perfume and a compact mirror as weapons.

The first superpowered woman of note in Marvel Comics was Sue Storm, aka the Invisible Girl of the Fantastic Four. Even she struggled for equal billing with her male counterparts early on, since her invisibility power was often used as a defense mechanism rather than as an offensive capability when she was battling bad guys. Her counterpart in Marvel’s Avengers was Wasp, a wisecracking woman who could shrink to the size of a wasp and shoot energy blasts from her hands. Both would be written exponentially more effective and potentially lethal as time went on, and they would gain equal footing with many of their male counterparts.

Source: The Root

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KingVenus

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#2  Edited By KingVenus

Just say sexism Oh my God. & No! , because there are rarely many female super heroines.

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KingVenus

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#3  Edited By KingVenus

Wonder Woman > Superman

She- Hulk > Hulk

Aquaman > Namor :P

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ZhuRong

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@foamborn @agent41

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Mandarinestro

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We males have been treated unfairly in the media of comics. All iconic superheroes such as Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are shown to be six-packed, ripped, or at least buffed to some degree. Superman and Batman even gets undies shown as if the effects weren't enough. Please tell me that this is not the OVERSEXUALISATION of the MALE POPULATION!

We males must rise against this UNFAIR portrayal in the media at large.

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Mandarinestro

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Nah. Its just how it is in real life. Oversexualized yes, but so are the men. Women beat men all the time in comics, its just that whenever they lose to men, people get mad for some reason.

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KingVenus

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#8  Edited By KingVenus

We males have been treated unfairly in the media of comics. All iconic superheroes such as Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are shown to be six-packed, ripped, or at least buffed to some degree. Superman and Batman even gets undies shown as if the effects weren't enough. Please tell me that this is not the OVERSEXUALISATION of the MALE POPULATION!

We males must rise against this UNFAIR portrayal in the media at large.

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SymbioticSpider-Man

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Sometimes I wonder if people like you want women to grow a penis.

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Cable_Extreme

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#10  Edited By Cable_Extreme

Men are stronger than women, cold hard fact. comics are a place that this fact isn't the case, just look at Wonder Woman, or Cassandra Cain (in comparison to Batman). That's why comics are fantasy, however, comics that place men as physically superior arent exaclty lying.

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ZhuRong

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@cable_extreme: I find your claim to be flawed. We got women like Laila Ali and Ronda Rousey that would flip the average man on their a**. I refuse to agree with the standards in our society.

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SilverPool

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Or maybe it's because males are generally more powerful than females in real life?

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johnfrank120

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I swear most of this is about WW, there are tons of better female characters.

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frozen

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#15 frozen  Moderator

@zhurong: Men are superior. Therefore comics will reflect this indisputable fact.

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ganon15

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So the Off-topic forum is officially the social justice forum now? Got it

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KingVenus

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Women are not helping their self either. If they want to be treated unlike " Sex Symbols & Sex Objects" How about not doing anything to cause that effect.

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Vitality

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@zhurong said:

@cable_extreme: I find your claim to be flawed. We got women like Laila Ali and Ronda Rousey that would flip the average man on their a**. I refuse to agree with the standards in our society.

Yes, of course you can pick out some females who are stronger than some males...but on average, when you compare males and females...males are, on average, stronger.

I say this with absolutely no disrespect to females at all. I love females. It's just the truth.

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ZhuRong

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@frozen: I just knew you was going to put your 2 cents in this topic. Comics are fiction and fantasy so it shouldn't reflect reality.

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albusan

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Male superiority is dead. Superman can't even get Wonder Woman to make a good ham sandwich.

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Vitality

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#22  Edited By Vitality

@mandarinestro said:

We males have been treated unfairly in the media of comics. All iconic superheroes such as Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are shown to be six-packed, ripped, or at least buffed to some degree. Superman and Batman even gets undies shown as if the effects weren't enough. Please tell me that this is not the OVERSEXUALISATION of the MALE POPULATION!

We males must rise against this UNFAIR portrayal in the media at large.

This is hilarious, and so true.

Everyone complains about females in comics and how they are portrayed...while nearly every male character is drawn to look like a bodybuilder.

Double-standards are fun.

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ZhuRong

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@johnfrank120: What does this have to revolve around Wonder Woman? This is about the inferiority of all female characters. The women you think are better are probably just rip-offs anyways.

@silverpool: As I stated to Frozen

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@zhurong said:

@cable_extreme: I find your claim to be flawed. We got women like Laila Ali and Ronda Rousey that would flip the average man on their a**. I refuse to agree with the standards in our society.

well they aren't exactly average women are they? compared to male athletes of said sport men are stronger than women.

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Cable_Extreme

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@zhurong: not talking about adverage men, the bio is referring to superheros and how female superheros are compared to male superheros. People like Alister Overreem could beat Rhonda Rousey or any girl you named in strength. Sure girls can be stronger than guys, but if both a girl and a guy reach thier max potential, the guy will win any day realistically.

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ZhuRong

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@albusan: The funny thing is someone actually stated Wonder Woman don't take worse beatings than Superman because she's a woman. On-panel showings have shown otherwise.

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johnfrank120

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@zhurong: I mean WW is mentioned more times than need be. And really it is the stories that truly matter, Catwoman and Elektra flopped because they were bad movies, the DC comics bit in the 70s were directly due to feminist backlash over how women are drawn unrealistically.

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unbreakable_fs4

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I understand where you're coming from and I believe that in some cases females are treated less fairly than males in comics. Though the idea that writers aim to water down a female character to promote a male character is false. Just because a female character is not as powerful as you'd like them to be does not mean that writers strategize the downfall of the female character because they feel she poses a "threat" towards the male character. That is one heck of an assumption.

I frequent the battle forum and I'm positive this thread is derived off of the suggestion that Wonder Woman isn't getting the feats or respect she deserves. I've seen it mentioned numerous times by a handful of her fans. Some even claim the writers believe that Wonder Woman can't have a good story unless she's weaker. Quite frankly, I find these claims pretty illogical. The recent run by Azzarello disproves their claim. In case those complaining haven't noticed, Flash isn't even close to being as powerful as he used to be. Do you see the Flash fans condemning the writers for this? No, you don't...and you definitely don't see them pinning the issue on something similar and as illogical as watering down women cause they're a threat to men.

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albusan

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@zhurong: atleast Batman didn't spit on her.

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#30  Edited By FoamBorn

@theamazingimmortalman said:

well they aren't exactly average women are they? compared to male athletes of said sport men are stronger than women.

But take Superman and Wonder Woman for example, men have 30% more upper body strength and 10 or so per cent more lower body strength. She's the strongest female and he's the strongest male. She's an Amazon, so like Ronda Rousey, she's skilled beyond belief whereas Superman's not. With that 30% gap, she should kick his butt yet she doesn't. In some iterations, she can't even land a scratch on him. Why you think this is?

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frozen

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#31  Edited By frozen  Moderator

It's time to accept Superman > Wonder Woman. It's the way it's supposed to be.

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unbreakable_fs4

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#32  Edited By unbreakable_fs4

@foamborn said:

@theamazingimmortalman said:

well they aren't exactly average women are they? compared to male athletes of said sport men are stronger than women.

But take Superman and Wonder Woman for example, men have 30% more upper body strength and 10 or so per cent more lower body strength. She's the strongest female and he's the strongest male. She's an Amazon, so like Ronda Rousey, she's skilled beyond belief whereas Superman's not. With that 30% gap, she should kick his butt yet she doesn't. In some iterations, she can't even land a scratch on him. Why you think this is?

Because skill is not everything. Skill can only do so much when your opponent is significantly faster than you. Besides, what iteration of WW are you referring to when you say she can't even land a scratch on him. I'd argue she could in all iterations.

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TheAmazingImmortalMan

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@foamborn said:

@theamazingimmortalman said:

well they aren't exactly average women are they? compared to male athletes of said sport men are stronger than women.

But take Superman and Wonder Woman for example, men have 30% more upper body strength and 10 or so per cent more lower body strength. She's the strongest female and he's the strongest male. She's an Amazon, so like Ronda Rousey, she's skilled beyond belief whereas Superman's not. With that 30% gap, she should kick his butt yet she doesn't. In some iterations, she can't even land a scratch on him. Why you think this is?

Despite the skill advantage Superman has the physical advantage in speed and strength, he isn't an average man either, or let alone a human man. Superman works outside of that woman:man ratio/comparison since he biologically different than Batman or Green Lantern or any male hero out there.

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FoamBorn

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Because skill is not everything. Skill can only do so much when your opponent is significantly faster than you. Besides, what iteration of WW are you referring to when you say she can't even lay a hand on him. I'd argue she could in all iterations.

Precisely, If comic books truly reflected men's physical superiority, which is undeniable, Wonder Woman would still defeat Superman despite him being 30% stronger, just like Batman's bested Bane.

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Darling_Luna

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ZhuRong

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@frozen: Physical wise, yes. Lvenger would disagree on his run and characterization being better than hers in the New 52.

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@foamborn: The Batman vs Bane analogy is quite different. The difference being neither has a significant speed edge over the other like Superman and Wonder Woman. She's by no means slow but if were comparing current incarnations, he's much faster by feats. As I've said, skill doesn't mean too much when the situation is as I've described

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ZhuRong

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unbreakable_fs4

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#39  Edited By unbreakable_fs4

@zhurong: if you're referring to batman, it's because she matches him in each statistical category with the exception of strength, and strength plays little significance in actual combat unless the two combatants are wrestling or grappling. The main differentiator between Shiva and Bruce is skill.

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FoamBorn

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@foamborn: The Batman vs Bane analogy is quite different. The difference being neither has a significant speed edge over the other like Superman and Wonder Woman. She's by no means slow but if were comparing current incarnations, he's much faster by feats. As I've said, skill doesn't mean too much when the situation is as I've described

He's only that much faster than Wonder Woman because someone made him so. That's the whole point of contention, the fact that MALE characters are usually made more powerful (btw intelligent too) than females, often by a considerable amount.

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SpitfirePanda

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#41  Edited By SpitfirePanda

Edit: Ya know, forget what I said before. I'm just gonna leave this here.

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micah007123

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#42  Edited By micah007123

@mandarinestro said:

We males have been treated unfairly in the media of comics. All iconic superheroes such as Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are shown to be six-packed, ripped, or at least buffed to some degree. Superman and Batman even gets undies shown as if the effects weren't enough. Please tell me that this is not the OVERSEXUALISATION of the MALE POPULATION!

We males must rise against this UNFAIR portrayal in the media at large.

Amen.

Gotta love Double Standards :)

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unbreakable_fs4

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#43  Edited By unbreakable_fs4

@foamborn said:
@unbreakable_fs4 said:

@foamborn: The Batman vs Bane analogy is quite different. The difference being neither has a significant speed edge over the other like Superman and Wonder Woman. She's by no means slow but if were comparing current incarnations, he's much faster by feats. As I've said, skill doesn't mean too much when the situation is as I've described

He's only that much faster than Wonder Woman because someone made him so. That's the whole point of contention, the fact that MALE characters are usually made more powerful (btw intelligent too) than females, often by a considerable amount.

What an erroneous statement. I guess Cassandra Cain is inferior to Batman too right? I guess The Goddess overwhelming Thanos, Professor X, and Adam Warlock simultaneously in the astral plane never happened too right? I guess Maxima, generally being regarded as superior to Superman is all an illusion too right?

Your statement fails to take into consideration the numerous other females that are superior to their male counterparts, in order to support your claims. You are essentially cherry picking and viewing this current debate through tunnel vision lenses. Broaden your views rather than limit them to a few characters and you'll notice, this severe "mistreatment" you guys claim to be abundant is nonexistent.

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deactivated-097092725

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I'm presently reading Dames, Daredevils and Divas: The Lost Heroines of the Golden Age which discusses in detail some of what you've shared. It's been eye opening for me in that a lot of female characters were actually very powerful and shown to be just as strong (and in some cases more) than the men in the comics they appeared in. Sadly, when World War II kicked in, stories turned more towards battling the evil Nazis and once it was over, women who had stepped in to do what was conventionally considered men's work were encouraged to become housewives, doting on their husbands and children. Comics reflected this new ideal and that was that. It wasn't until the 80's when things began to change and in comparison, while there has been a lot of improvement, the sexism and objectification of female characters is still an ongoing thing. No where near as bad as before, but then again, that can be subjective when you consider titles which illustrate female characters in blatantly sexual and suggestive wardrobes and body placement.

I appreciate the discussion, but I've since learned topics like these devolve into gender politics and it's difficult to attempt a cordial dialogue with people who have biased and close minded agendas on both sides of the issue. I do want to end this on a good note, which is to say new characters like Kamala in Ms. Marvel prove strong and female characters can be successful in comics outside of what they appear physically. She's a beautiful young woman, but a broke back pose wasn't and still isn't required for her to catch comic readers' attention and interest.

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FoamBorn

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#45  Edited By FoamBorn
@mandarinestro said:

We males have been treated unfairly in the media of comics. All iconic superheroes such as Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are shown to be six-packed, ripped, or at least buffed to some degree. Superman and Batman even gets undies shown as if the effects weren't enough. Please tell me that this is not the OVERSEXUALISATION of the MALE POPULATION!

We males must rise against this UNFAIR portrayal in the media at large.

Don't be silly, if you're as much discontent with it as we are then complain about it like we have. Besides men are idealized for STRENGTH hence all the muscle.

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FoamBorn

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What an erroneous statement. I guess Cassandra Cain is inferior to Batman too right? I guess The Goddess overwhelming Thanos, Professor X, and Adam Warlock simultaneously in the astral plane never happened too right? I guess Maxima, generally being regarded as superior to Superman is all an illusion too right?

Your statement fails to take into consideration the numerous other females that are superior to their male counterparts, in order to support your claims. You are essentially cherry picking and viewing this current debate through tunnel vision lenses. Broaden your views rather than limit them to a few characters and you'll notice, this severe "mistreatment" you guys claim to be abundant is nonexistent.

Look up the definition of the world "generally". I know there are super smart female characters but for every super intelligent female character, there are 10 or 15 super intelligent men that are even more incredibly intelligent.

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frozen

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#47 frozen  Moderator

We males have been treated unfairly in the media of comics. All iconic superheroes such as Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are shown to be six-packed, ripped, or at least buffed to some degree. Superman and Batman even gets undies shown as if the effects weren't enough. Please tell me that this is not the OVERSEXUALISATION of the MALE POPULATION!

We males must rise against this UNFAIR portrayal in the media at large.

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ZhuRong

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@foamborn: Billy Batson can blow for blow with Superman all day but Diana can't do unless it look like she's struggling.

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unbreakable_fs4

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#49  Edited By unbreakable_fs4

@foamborn said:

@unbreakable_fs4 said:

What an erroneous statement. I guess Cassandra Cain is inferior to Batman too right? I guess The Goddess overwhelming Thanos, Professor X, and Adam Warlock simultaneously in the astral plane never happened too right? I guess Maxima, generally being regarded as superior to Superman is all an illusion too right?

Your statement fails to take into consideration the numerous other females that are superior to their male counterparts, in order to support your claims. You are essentially cherry picking and viewing this current debate through tunnel vision lenses. Broaden your views rather than limit them to a few characters and you'll notice, this severe "mistreatment" you guys claim to be abundant is nonexistent.

Look up the definition of the world "generally". I know there are super smart female characters but for every super intelligent female character, there are 10 or 15 super intelligent men that are even more incredibly intelligent.

Do note that mainly the targeted readership of comics are male. It's unfortunate that more characters aren't female due to the skewed male to female reader ratio but it is that way. However based on factual evidence (Source), this ratio is becoming much better each year and it's clear that the big comic companies are doing their best to change and improve in this topic.

It is true that based on the majority male reader, the companies would aim to create characters that would be more relatable to them but after being pressed and realizing that there are indeed female readers as well, they have been on an upward trend towards diversifying their work. Though, to claim that this skewed result has something to do with the writers watering down the female characters because they see them as a "threat" to the male characters is quite the assumption, and honestly a bit of an unintelligent thing to say.