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#101 Posted by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio

@irishlad: The title was to lure people in :P

#102 Edited by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: I'm surprised how little you have accepted of counter opinion and how rigid you are on your own stance here. You don't want reasons for an Ant Man movie, you want reasons for an Ant Man movie over a Black Panther movie, yes? Okay.

Firstly, it is a redundant argument because it opens the door for every fan boy on here (i include myself) to argue about why THEIR favourite should have a movie. With that out of the way, let's continue.

Obviously, as has been mentioned, Ant Man is a founding member of the Avengers. This IS important, no matter how it is disregarded by you. He is one of the cornerstones of the Marvel intelligentsia which has formed the bedrock of the entire Marvel Universe since it's creation. HE invented Ultron which in turn invented the Vision, along the way there would be no Wasp, no Pym Particles, no Avengers as we know them today, etc, etc... all this has been covered and ALL this is important.

But what is more important, in a film sense is that Hank Pym is human, very human. People harp on the fact that he beat his wife, that he's had nervous breakdowns and though these facts are true, the underlying interest in Pym is his humanity and like with all of us, his need to prove himself; for redemption. This is one of the great themes of all literature, never mind film.

Hank Pym, Ant Man has enough substance and depth to carry a film and Edgar Wright is an inventive enough director to inocorporate all these elements into something that could be wonderful, never mind the technical 'super' side of things where he actually exhibits his powers. Seen Scott Pilgrim? Can you imagine what Wright can do with Ant Man's powers?

Yeah. Pretty mind blowing.

In rebuttal to your Black Panther argument, you seem to harp on and cut people down in regard to their opinion, but in the end you offer none of your own. You keep saying he should have his own film, but what would that film be? What would its tone be? Who would play him? Who would write it? Who would direct it? How would it truly fit into the Marvel cinematic universe and what would be the element he would bring that the franchise is missing?

I love Black Panther and would love to see a film with him in it, but Ant Man has more to offer at this point, due to the above points. Nothing you have said has convinced anyone of your opinion as it has no substance. THAT is why no one has really agreed with you. It sounds like you are just enjoying the argument and waving your home made black panther flag around.

You keep asking for someone to give you a reason why Ant Man should be a film over Black Panther (which i just have), yet you have not offered the counter. Your argument is self serving and hollow.

#103 Posted by knighthood (1746 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm fine with neither having a movie. Makes no difference to me.

#104 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@knighthood: Well, there is always that solid opinion too :)

#105 Posted by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: I'm surprised how little you have accepted of counter opinion and how rigid you are on your own stance here. You don't want reasons for an Ant Man movie, you want reasons for an Ant Man movie over a Black Panther movie, yes? Okay.

Something like this, yes :P

firstly, it is a redundant argument because it opens the door for every fan boy on here (i include myself) to argue about why THEIR favourite should have a movie. With that out of the way, let's continue.

And is that a bad thing? No, It means that people like yourself, and myself can give a good argument. Sorta...

Obviously, as has been mentioned, Ant Man is a founding member of the Avengers. This IS important, no matter how it is disregarded by you. He is one of the cornerstones of the Marvel intelligentsia which has formed the bedrock of the entire Marvel Universe since it's creation. HE invented the Ultron which in turn invented Ultron, there would be no Wasp without him, no Pym Particles, etc, etc... all this has been covered and ALL this is important.

I don't have a personal care for Wasp, Ultron we can agree on. But, he is a founding member, big deal, Hulk is not even getting another movie, so Marvel REALLY do not care about that.

But what is more important, in a film sense is that Hank Pym is human, very human. People harp on the fact that he beat his wife, that he's had nervous breakdowns and though these facts are true, the underlying interest in Pym is his humanity and like with all of us, his need to prove himself; for redemption. This is one of the great themes of all literature, never mind film.

No, Tony has gone through this "redemption" style thing, Hulk has, Thor has, and now possibly even Ant-man? We have had enough of it already, T'challa would bring ANOTHER thing to the table, his kingship, do we need another redemption story-line when somebody is trying to get their "heroship" or so back?

Hank Pym, Ant Man has enough substance and depth to carry a film and Edgar Wright is an inventive enough director to inocorporate all these elements into something that could be wonderful, never mind the technical 'super' side of things where he actually exhibits his powers. Seen Scott Pilgrim? Can you imagine what Wright can do with Ant Man's powers?

I agree, It WILL be awesome. But T'challas tech is in my view and possibly factually, better. If the correct director was cast for BP, it would be amazing how they utilize the technology of Wakanda.

In rebuttal to you r Black Panther argument, you seem to harp on and cut people down in regard to their opinion, but in the end you offer none of your own.

....What? This whole thread is a giant opinion AND has reasons. I think you did not read the OP.

You keep saying he should have his own film, but what would that film be?

His origins.

Who would play him? Who would write it? Who would direct it? How would it truly fit into the Marvel cinematic universe and what would be the element he would bring that the franchise is missing?

Easily, they could simply go to Wakanda finding vibranium, And their are countless actors who could play and direct him, They are missing a BLACK Hero, that is simply what they miss, Ant-Man brings nothing to the table, we have a scientist already, Tony.

Woah, Ant-man brings pym particles, Tony+T'challa could very easily I think create them.

I love Black Panther and would love to see a film with him in it, but Ant Man has more to offer at this point, due to the above points. Nothing you have said has convinced anyone of your opinion as it has no substance. THAT is why no one has really agreed with you. It sounds like you are just enjoying the argument and waving your home made black panther flag around.

Did you read the thread? Many have agreed with me. You clearly did not read the OP OR the thread. This is clear.

You keep asking for someone to give you a reason why Ant Man should be a film over Black Panther (which i just have), yet you have not offered the counter. Your argument is self serving and hollow.

Read above.

#106 Edited by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio
#107 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Damn. I thought fairly highly of you before this but it seems you're just one of 'those guys'. You are a fanboy in the worst sense of the word. Your opinions are entirely based on a self involved view of a character and has no sense of perspective. And your opinion that the Avengers "are MISSING a black hero" as if an entire race was a table fixture disgusts me.

Your arguments are childish and self serving. This began as fun, but has denigrated into something i choose not to be involved with.

#110 Edited by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Devil's Advocate to WHO or WHAT? And who are you to play advocate to anyone or anything? I would never presume such a role. Just because you type something in a forum, do you not think it has weight or meaning? Because you type obnoxious statements that are self serving, do you think it doesn't have a lasting effect? When someone presents to you the reality of what you have said or how you have acted do you think you can just brush it off by saying "why you taking things so seriously.."?

I'm tired of people thinking that just because they type something, it has no meaning. If you are not willing to be brought up on your opinions, don't share them. If you are not prepared to have comments that border on racism brought back up to you then don't type them in the first place.

#111 Edited by Billy Batson (58748 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure Black Panther won't mind Ant-Man getting a movie first.

BB

#112 Edited by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@feebadger: And wait a minute, Is it bad that I say they are "missing" a black hero? Are you saying that is BAD? Beacuse movies need to sell tickets, and having a black hero will sell tickets, am I wrong?

You disgust me. Read up on the civil rights movement. Look at the world around you and then come back and tell me if you're wrong. Your view of the world is about a millimetre wide.

#114 Posted by Irishlad (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram As I said in my comment and I think it's what feebadger is getting at is Marvel does not need to have black characters for the sake of having a black character, same way they wouldn't need a Russian or an Irish hero just because they're Russian or Irish.

What Marvel needs is good characters so we can continue to enjoy this awesome cinematic universe Marvel has going.

Antman could potentially be a great movie, you can't say it's gonna be a bad one because no one has seen it, we haven't even seen a trailer of it yet.

I have no doubt Black Panther will get a movie eventually we just have to be patient.

@feebadger many of your statements I agree with because they were respectable and made sense, but calling someone obnoxious and all sorts of names is not something you should be doing because 1. it completely discredits your opinions and 2. calling someone obnoxious who you've never met automatically makes you obnoxious and 3. From what I've seen on the forums you're a cool person and so is Pyrogram.

#116 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Firstly, referring to a race as 'blacks' is f@#king horrific. Secondly, you just said that having a 'black' in the movie sells more tickets!?!? How is that 'representing'? You jump arguments as it suits you as you have no real informed opinion. You are a child just looking to win. That's what it looks like to me.

#118 Edited by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@irishlad: I respect why you think it is wrong for me to use such terms, i really do, but i have had enough of letting people say what they want just because it is online. I may live to regret my comments, but i am drawing a line. I have had enough. I work in community centres in my hometown and i know how stigmatised those kids feel by the types of comments Pyrogram is making. I have considered him to be a cool guy up until now, but i have had it. I'm sorry if i have offended you and i may continue to do so during this conversation with Pyro. I consider you a great person on this site, but i must do what i feel is right.

@pyrogram: My ego? You know about the civil rights movement because you've read about it? You seem naive. Horribly, horribly naive. You haven't read a single word i've said, all you wait for is the chance to type back. You seem to have learnt nothing in your time here. You seem to be too busy telling people what you want them to hear.

#121 Edited by Lvenger (22405 posts) - - Show Bio

@feebadger: @pyrogram: Come on you two let's keep things clean here. I've had to talk to you before fee about things like this. And Pyro you're escalating the situation. I've suffered from engaging in arguments like this and events like this can get sour. So don't make things personal. That's not what's needed on here.

#123 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: And you haven't? Really? Your view is slighted, completely. Who are you to speak on behalf of an entire race? You are calling one person to hand to defend you? You talked of ticket sales then try to defend it as a strike for equality? You start a thread, fight with Boo and i because we didn't agree with you originally? You promote ugliness and belittle those who disagree with you throughout the entire thread (before i even cam in), demanding someone take your argument seriously and then when someone does you ask, 'why take it so seriously'? There is no superiority complex here. There is just you.

#125 Posted by Loki9876 (3077 posts) - - Show Bio

but I love Hank Pym

#126 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: You call names and then leave? Sure it's heated, but it's a real discourse? Why lock it down? It seems healthy to me? You views will open a lot of eyes as i'm sure mine will. Why is that bad? Let's get to the bottom of this. It seems to be enough to warrant a lot of responses and why would you start a thread you're not willing to defend with intelligent (sometimes snide and narky) comments, from yourself and contributors?

#128 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Mmmmm... 'pinnacle of irony' isn't really an insult. More a conceited opinion :) And you DO get into personal fights without reason, as you did when you started this thread and then refused to acknowledge the disregard you gavve to anyone who presented an opposing opinion. If i am guilty of irony, then come closer and spin me with me down into its lower circles of hell :):):)

#130 Posted by laflux (18364 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@feebadger said:

@pyrogram: Firstly, referring to a race as 'blacks' is f@#king horrific. Secondly, you just said that having a 'black' in the movie sells more tickets!?!? How is that 'representing'? You jump arguments as it suits you as you have no real informed opinion. You are a child just looking to win. That's what it looks like to me.

Lol at irony, your racism is astounding, No black would be offended being called black. Do you get offended by being called WHITE?

@laflux Am I offending you by calling you black?

No you offend me because I am the only black person you can call upon?

Nah no worries we're cool. Black is probably the go to word to describe people of a African decent

#131 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: This feels like a fairly astute comment, laflux, more than the following one you made :)

#132 Edited by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's do an ANT PANTHER movie, about a professor who can control ANTS who can control PANTHERS and all of them are BLACK AND WHITE and they rule an AFRICAN NATION OF DUBIOUS ORIGIN until they are COOL and STREET and racially DIVERSE and ALL the middle class WHITE BOYS (including myself) are HAPPY.

THAT should be Marvel's next film :):):)

#133 Posted by BumpyBoo (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@feebadger: You shamelessly racist psychopath, you :):):)

Although if you want to pander racially, what you want is Zebras O_O

Moderator
#134 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@bumpyboo: Or the black and white cookie :)

#135 Posted by SC (13962 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I wanted a Black Panther movie, but I almost don't want one now heh heh, I am not a fan of characters being cut down or undermined to prop up other characters. Not a fan of that at all. Its cheap and easy to undermine a character, not an inherently bad thing to do, especially if consistency is applied, but bias over objectivity is unfortunate. Characters like Ant-Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision, mind you they may not have the amount of solo series as characters like Thor, Iron Man and Cap America, but many of the greatest Avenger writers have explained that such characters are the Avengers, the heart, soul and backbone. Pym is important to the Avengers franchise, so is Panther. How many solo Wolverine issues are there? How many Professor X issues? Lets think of ways we can say a bald guy in a wheelchair is boring. Who'd figure that X-Men First Class was born of movie projects focused on Xavier and Magneto. Its a tad bit superficial and akin to a sexual organ measuring contest to start comparing apples and oranges basically. A good idea, a good concept, is a good idea and a good concept regardless of Marvels financial bets in publishing strategies, and this applies to both characters as much, and its a much more complicated discussion to try and balance the two and this is important because using publication history to justify creative decisions is the very same process that holds down minorities when it comes to movies and other mediums, somewhat ironic argument applied to and for Black Panther. The same argument meant to sell the idea of a Black Panther movie being made actually works as much against him, and always had, and Blade didn't get a successful movie because of how many series he had but because the plot, idea, and mechanics of creating a film were right. Not unlike Iron Man's success a few years later.

Anyway so I would be happy with a film on either, fictional characters that go small is actually a pretty big trope that has always fascinated humans as long as fairies and giants have been conceived. Movies about mini characters have always done well, Bugs Life, Honey I Shrunk the Kids, and with todays technology - a movie about a character like Antman would be visually stunning and very different from all the other superhero movies out there especially since it tries to incorporate science into it. A movie with Black Panther would look stunning too naturally, but the two aren't in some locked battle or competition. Anyway I could go on but yeah, like both characters, words like "deserve" don't hold any water with me without some strict objective criteria, hope i get to see movies about both before I die and hope both are done well.

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#136 Edited by BumpyBoo (11119 posts) - - Show Bio
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#137 Posted by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Agreed, if we get a movie with them both before we die, everything is good! Everybody wins!

#138 Posted by laflux (18364 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: This feels like a fairly astute comment, laflux, more than the following one you made :)

Ha, I'm only messing TBF. But with regards to the term being used to describe Black people, it depends on the time. For example, during the slave trade, Ni*** was the standard way to refer to Black people, Black people even used to use it to refer to themselves. Of course now things are different.

It also refers intent. I'm pretty sure that @pyrogram means no ill will toward any race, and I think he called me out because I'm his Best Black friend here, rather than his only black friend here. And in anycase, this is a comicbook forum. We can't even see each other, well, apart from the those exhibitionists in the real life pic thread, so race shouldn't matter so much. For all you know, I could be Chinese with blue eyes and a pink Mohawk.

But I am not.........

Or am I ;)

#139 Edited by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio
#140 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Agreed, if we get a movie with them both before we die, everything is good! Everybody wins!

Duh, WHA!? This comment is in complete contradiction to everything you have said throughout the whole thread!?!?

The thread is called, "Why Black Panther Deserves a Movie and Ant-Man does NOT" WHA!?!?!? ;P

#141 Posted by eblivarator (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: a Black superhero isn't marketable. Hancock is pretty much the best we'll get

#142 Posted by chalkshark (1224 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start by saying, I am not an Ant Man fan. Or a Giant Man fan. Or a Goliath fan. Or a Yellowjacket fan. Or a Wasp fan. Or a Hank Pym fan. Or a Scott Lang fan. Or an Irredeemable Ant Man fan. Whether the character deserves a film or not is a moot point. He's getting one. All the fan umbrage in the world isn't going to stop that from happening. A large point of contention in this thread has been that Ant Man has never starred in his own series. That simply isn't true. Hank Pym was the lead feature in Tales To Astonish from 1962 until 1965. While the series was not called "Ant Man", you have to understand that most of Marvel's characters didn't get their name in the title. Thor starred in Journey Into Mystery. Iron Man and Captain America split Tales of Suspense. Dr. Strange was featured in Strange Tales. Even Black Panther started out in Jungle Action. The second Ant Man, Scott Lang, was solo featured in Marvel Premiere #s 47-48. The Irredeemable Ant Man ran for a year. The concept has a long standing history in the Marvel Universe, with the Original Ant Man and The Wasp being foundation stones in Marvel's Silver Age. I personally feel like all of Marvel's Silver Age characters should be brought to the Silver Screen. That includes Black Panther. I'm actually a little bothered that the Falcon will be the first black hero to appear in Marvel's cinematic universe, and I say that as a huge Falcon fan. Yes, they exist. Keeping with Marvel's history, it should have been the Black Panther. That said, it should have been Ant Man and The Wasp in the first Avengers film, not Hawkeye and Black Widow. It is what it is. Have patience. I'm confidant the Black Panther will get his shot.

#143 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23238 posts) - - Show Bio

Ant-man is a great character, for one he's got history having been around longer than quite a few heroes who have had their own movie, a somewhat unique power set, in the movies we've had people with super strength, people flying and shooting lasers out of their eyes and healing factors in abundance but you never see anyone with his powers, He's a better character than many of the people who've had their own movies, yea he's had his problems (He hit his wife 1 time in the 60s in the middle of a nervous breakdown and spent the next 40 years apologizing for it) But he admits to his short comings unlike Mr. Douchetastic.

To be fair, Hank's the only person in Marvel who tries to atone for his mistakes. Everyone else just ignores their errors, blames them on Cyclops or goes crazy.

Also, this thread is a disgrace. I like Pyrogram, but he should be embarrassed for writing this. Saying Black Panther is smarter than Hank (as well as completely ignoring Hank having his own series in Tales to Astonish) is just sad and a reason to ignore anything said in the OP.

#144 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29515 posts) - - Show Bio

I just realized, wasn't Hank crowned Scientist Supreme?

#145 Edited by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio
#146 Posted by Pyrogram (41884 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt: I did not mean this to be serious, It turned nasty...That is why I requested a lock.

#147 Posted by feebadger (1455 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Could you please lock your hate and please embrace what is being said to you privately?

#149 Posted by Z3RO180 (6840 posts) - - Show Bio

What is the purpose of this thread ?

Online