Kid kills bully and is let go free. Thoughts?

@CATPANEXE: Agreed.

@mikethekiller said:

This kid should go to a mental institute and get some evaluation.

yeah, for having the same "disease" that all kids who get picked on have. (not saying all of them would kill someone) It's just the way I see it, you shouldn't be answering this post unless you've been in that position. Getting treated like you're less of a person is troublesome enough but when you add in his age, the bad becomes horrible pretty quick.

Lock him up.

If you go and kill someone (even if they do pick on you hardcore) then what would stop you from killing someone else? Murder is murder. And if you kill someone you are a killer. And thats about it.

Way to generalize and stereotype people there. Great job.

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@mikethekiller said:

This kid should go to a mental institute and get some evaluation.

yeah, for having the same "disease" that all kids who get picked on have. (not saying all of them would kill someone) It's just the way I see it, you shouldn't be answering this post unless you've been in that position. Getting treated like you're less of a person is troublesome enough but when you add in his age, the bad becomes horrible pretty quick.

I was fat and a nerd, trust me I've been bullied and I know what it's like.

@killeratthedrivein said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@mikethekiller said:

This kid should go to a mental institute and get some evaluation.

yeah, for having the same "disease" that all kids who get picked on have. (not saying all of them would kill someone) It's just the way I see it, you shouldn't be answering this post unless you've been in that position. Getting treated like you're less of a person is troublesome enough but when you add in his age, the bad becomes horrible pretty quick.

was columbine justified then?

Not even close to the same situation.

Yeah, I think a lot of people in this thread are making assumptions about the mind state of the kid during the stabbing.

If someone bullies you, and you hold it in, there's a lot of pent up emotion aching to be released. Considering this kid went out of the way to avoid this fight, I'm going to assume he generally held himself in check for most of their confrontations. The fact that he lost control in the heat of the moment, after being punched to the back of the head, doesn't mean that he brought the knife to murder the kid. The fact that he went out of his way to get off the bus and such to avoid it - as the court noted - heavily suggests that it wasn't a premeditated decision. The testimony by all the student who noted how he tried to avoid the fight suggests he brought it for self-defense. Maybe he tried to avoid the fight so he wouldn't have to use it? Maybe he feared his own pent up rage? Anyone with a cursory knowledge of psychology of the brain knows the Amygdala(the part of the brain associated with memories and emotional reactions) reacts quicker than rational thought and bypasses several cognitive functions (for survival purposes). This boy had horrible memories of this bully, probably pent up stress/rage/anger, fight or flight switched on, and had just been ambushed with a punch to the back of the head.

Do you realize that in UFC (and probably other MMA organizations), punches to the back of the head are illegal? Too dangerous to be allowed?

All of which is a cocktail of variables that explain why he may have lost control and went overboard in his self-defense.

I think he's justified in not only the eyes of the law, but the eyes of psychology. And I agree with the decision....Killing is killing. Murder is an illegal variation of killing in the eyes of the law. Self-defense(with deadly force) is a legal variation of killing in the eyes of the law. that is justified. Killing isn't wrong in and of itself; do you think it's wrong for our soldiers to kill others in defense of our country? Is killing ants, plants, and animals wrong?[inb4PETALOL] Even the bible says "thou shalt not murder[edit]" as understood by most modern translations.

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@killeratthedrivein said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@mikethekiller said:

This kid should go to a mental institute and get some evaluation.

yeah, for having the same "disease" that all kids who get picked on have. (not saying all of them would kill someone) It's just the way I see it, you shouldn't be answering this post unless you've been in that position. Getting treated like you're less of a person is troublesome enough but when you add in his age, the bad becomes horrible pretty quick.

was columbine justified then?

I'm not even going to dignify that with answer because you're probably the kind of person that even if I gave you my reason for thinking the way I do you would make more asinine claims like that...so it's cool. So many of you seem to live in a black and white world. You must be Christians. It's not your fault

Fight asinine with asinine?

No. You're doing it wrong.

I would like to know if he continued to stab the other kid after he went down and was no longer a threat, that would be murder. If someone is assaulting you and you think they might kill you then you really don't have the option of giving him a couple of little superficial stab wounds, that's just going to make sure he's entirely enraged and increases your likelihood of being killed. If you stab once you then you really have to keep stabbing until your attacker goes down. If it takes 12 stabs to be sure you've neutralized the threat to your life then 12 stabs are justified.

By the way, I suggest everyone just ignores the posters who made the comment about Columbine being justified and the "you must be Christians" comment. It's pointless to argue with people like that.

Edit: I also read the article, but it was vague on the details of the stabbing other than only two could have been fatal stabs.

I was bullied a lot in my life but I would have and would not resort to killing someone.

Bias nerd is bias.

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@killeratthedrivein said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@mikethekiller said:

This kid should go to a mental institute and get some evaluation.

yeah, for having the same "disease" that all kids who get picked on have. (not saying all of them would kill someone) It's just the way I see it, you shouldn't be answering this post unless you've been in that position. Getting treated like you're less of a person is troublesome enough but when you add in his age, the bad becomes horrible pretty quick.

was columbine justified then?

I'm not even going to dignify that with answer because you're probably the kind of person that even if I gave you my reason for thinking the way I do you would make more asinine claims like that...so it's cool. So many of you seem to live in a black and white world. You must be Christians. It's not your fault

Nice generalization/stereotyping there. I'm non-denominational Christian, by the way. Also bullied for nine years, possibly as bad, if not worse than this kid was. And I still disagree with him being let off scott free. He should of been given at least some form of minor punishment. Note how I say minor. I'm talking probation at the very most, if not a month or two of jail time.

@killeratthedrivein said:

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@mikethekiller said:

This kid should go to a mental institute and get some evaluation.

yeah, for having the same "disease" that all kids who get picked on have. (not saying all of them would kill someone) It's just the way I see it, you shouldn't be answering this post unless you've been in that position. Getting treated like you're less of a person is troublesome enough but when you add in his age, the bad becomes horrible pretty quick.

was columbine justified then?

Stabbing someone twelve times after being attacked and beat up is EXTREMELY different than shooting up your entire school and attempting to set off a bomb, massacring several people. That's a horrible example to use.

@pixelized said:

No one reads the actual articles these days, there was more than a "punch to the back of the head."

The point is he was not in danger of death. The kid didn't even need medical attention....and yet it's okay for him to mortally stab someone 12 times?

@lykopis said:

I read the article.

I read every post and have reflected on the shades of grey presented from pitch black to startling white that have been expressed so far. I have been bulllied, been passive to others bullying and have worked extensively with young people who have bullied and who are bullies themselves. It's sad - for everyone - and the biggest impact is so intimate to the individuals involved, no one can fairly pass judgement. Did he have a right to self defense? Of course. Did keeping a knife on hand almost premeditate this as murder - most assuredly yes. I don't think stabbing someone can be argued as a deterrent, it is a deadly weapon. He knew using it would/could lead to death - and it did.

Someone is dead. It's a tragedy. I just feel a deep sadness this happened at all. The system failed both these individuals - the person being bullied deserved protection, there should have been safe-guards in place that could have at least avoided this final confrontation. I am not so naive to think that it is a solution - there will continue to be stories like this despite the best intentions of laws needing to be put in place to prevent them - but lets take this seriously and act towards prevention, not punishment. Lives are being lost and ruined. On both ends of this spectrum.

I lost one of my students last year - the bully, who was stabbed to death much like this young man was. He wasn't as cruel a bully - his victim wasn't as brutally targeted, but he is dead. A fifteen year-old killed by an eighteen-year old. That's two lives ruined. The issue of bullying needs to be seen as the horror that it is - reading stories like this and shaking our heads won't do anything. We all need to make a difference - even if it's just stating your opinion to family and friends, to asking young people in your life how things are. To offer support - to hear these poor kids. They are hurting - they are children in adult's bodies. It's hard enough being a teenager - they need our guidance now more than any other time in their lives. They need to know we see and care. It's crucial.

This thread has been interesting, at the very least. I've learned even more, which is always a good thing - for anyone.

Very thoughtful. I find this very true.

@aztek_the_lost: I think the the lacking term among a few is bully, but that's both the judicial system and the media for you. I learned to trust that, particularly what the news will highlight to make a story seem more than it was, and how for sides of the court will go to win for their side, and what they will make light of despite when they shouldn't It was assault. I've been there obviously too, and I'm not speaking of what most would classify as bullying, but assault which was what this was. Odd to relate as the incident I'm thinking of also started with a punch to the back of head. I went down and the two of them continued to beat me and I had no way out, rather just tried to keep myself conscious as I stare into an increasing pool of my own blood. A friend once said no matter what, if someone attacks you do not give them the benefit of doubt, and do anything in your power to not black out because once you reach that point your open to whatever they choose to do to you. I lucked out as my screams seemed to satisfy these people. I get to live in pain for rest of my life, and have surgery for the head and spine trauma I received. Again, I feel fortunate, as it doesn't much trauma to the head, spine or otherwise to kill the average person in a sudden circumstance, despite the fact that our favorite fictional characters and trained professionals can take lots of it. Likewise on first read, it reads as " was punched in a manner to bully then got enraged and attacked the bully stabbing him repeatedly ". Sort of like Ralphie to Flick in the movie A Christmas Story. But in the details, particularly those on the boys side it plays that the person was violently assaulting him and his effort, one refrained from was to save his own health and life. More or less your average self defense situation/case when it boils down to it, though the more rare one where the vic actually was the one breathing afterwards. Personally I'm going to say it's a safe bet as well that this incident haunts the boy for his life as well, he is human after all. Maybe the fact that I've actually been in the situation is why I'm grasping it? i dunno. But as anyone is aggressively pointing out that they think I'm mad here for making this stance (the same that the courts shared unanimously because the evidence supported it FYI), trust that I'm just as boggled that people seem to believe it's wrong to defend yourself from an attacker. Again, I'm citing probably to much fictional fighting/video games ect then as the probable only point of reference. Because while some believe themselves to be some dominant force able to sustain relentless the pressure, the truth, is that humans can easily be permanently impaired or killed by the correct trauma to the head, and it only actually takes on blow, as well, most humans when in this situation become terrified and inherent to a panic mentality, all opposed to a controlled situation in a sport.

I was bullied alot too I wouldn't of stabbed my bullies though I remember one kid bothering me in school I got up kicked my chair and called him a lump of shit and kicked my chair into the wall and left the class pissed off and I got freaking suspended for dangerous behavior and because the teacher felt threatened such bullshit

@spystreak: I bet you got punished more than this kid.

@one_upper:

most definately it's funny I get suspended for a month for kicking a chair an unliving object yet this kid stabbs someone and gets away with it mind you I kicked that chair in 2003 so apparently in the past 9 or so years things on bullying have changed to the point where you can stab a bully and get away with it

@HolySerpent said:

Well I do believe in self defense.12x is excessive. He should have simply slit his throat, then it would have been only 1 time.

@spystreak: The world gets more messed up all the time.

@one_upper:

it's been on a downward spiral since 2000 the only good thing about the modern world is the technologyand even then that's being exploited by people

@BiteMe-Fanboy said:

Lock him up.

If you go and kill someone (even if they do pick on you hardcore) then what would stop you from killing someone else? Murder is murder. And if you kill someone you are a killer. And thats about it.

This wasn't a case of murder. This was a case of justifiable homicide. Deal with it.

@LONGTIME: Then it should have been a lesser charge, but he shouldn't have gotten off with absolutely nothing.

@CATPANEXE said:

@aztek_the_lost: I think the the lacking term among a few is bully, but that's both the judicial system and the media for you. I learned to trust that, particularly what the news will highlight to make a story seem more than it was, and how for sides of the court will go to win for their side, and what they will make light of despite when they shouldn't It was assault. I've been there obviously too, and I'm not speaking of what most would classify as bullying, but assault which was what this was. Odd to relate as the incident I'm thinking of also started with a punch to the back of head. I went down and the two of them continued to beat me and I had no way out, rather just tried to keep myself conscious as I stare into an increasing pool of my own blood. A friend once said no matter what, if someone attacks you do not give them the benefit of doubt, and do anything in your power to not black out because once you reach that point your open to whatever they choose to do to you. I lucked out as my screams seemed to satisfy these people. I get to live in pain for rest of my life, and have surgery for the head and spine trauma I received. Again, I feel fortunate, as it doesn't much trauma to the head, spine or otherwise to kill the average person in a sudden circumstance, despite the fact that our favorite fictional characters and trained professionals can take lots of it. Likewise on first read, it reads as " was punched in a manner to bully then got enraged and attacked the bully stabbing him repeatedly ". Sort of like Ralphie to Flick in the movie A Christmas Story. But in the details, particularly those on the boys side it plays that the person was violently assaulting him and his effort, one refrained from was to save his own health and life. More or less your average self defense situation/case when it boils down to it, though the more rare one where the vic actually was the one breathing afterwards. Personally I'm going to say it's a safe bet as well that this incident haunts the boy for his life as well, he is human after all. Maybe the fact that I've actually been in the situation is why I'm grasping it? i dunno. But as anyone is aggressively pointing out that they think I'm mad here for making this stance (the same that the courts shared unanimously because the evidence supported it FYI), trust that I'm just as boggled that people seem to believe it's wrong to defend yourself from an attacker. Again, I'm citing probably to much fictional fighting/video games ect then as the probable only point of reference. Because while some believe themselves to be some dominant force able to sustain relentless the pressure, the truth, is that humans can easily be permanently impaired or killed by the correct trauma to the head, and it only actually takes on blow, as well, most humans when in this situation become terrified and inherent to a panic mentality, all opposed to a controlled situation in a sport.

I'm sorry to hear about the injuries you suffered from that assault and hope you have better than expected recovery. I agree with pretty much everything you've said on this topic so far, I believe anyone that is calling the kid a murderer isn't thinking about the situation this kid was in. I've never been bullied, but I used to get into a LOT of fights when I was younger. The feeling of terror that comes over you when you're close to losing consciousness to someone who is out for your blood is something you can't understand unless you've been there, you'll do pretty much anything to avoid it because your body is telling you you're going to die. Getting chased down and punched in the back of the head is plenty to get you there. It's crazy to me that people think he could have just stuck his attacker once or twice and that would've been the end of it. Stabbing (especially with a small blade) isn't like in the movies where a person crumples to the floor after one or two pokes. His only option was to keep stabbing until his attacker stopped. The kid didn't chose to be in that situation and it wasn't his responsibility to look out for the safety of the person who was putting him in mortal danger.

I've been bullied and I've been in plenty of fights. Admittedly the bullying was mostly verbal from 5th grade on because i was bigger and stronger than most, but before that older kids would bully me.

Sure in the middle of a fight you get a little crazy, but you don't lose your mind. I sympathize for the kid, but it's no excuse to kill someone by stabbing them so many times. His attacker was unarmed and the kid didn't even need medical attention so he couldn't have been beaten that badly.

@LONGTIME: Then it should have been a lesser charge, but he shouldn't have gotten off with absolutely nothing.

I think people as a whole are too non reactive and pussies. Why do people just watch as these things go on. And say you step in to help the kid gettin bullied you get in as much trouble as a bully. One of my friends senior year was being an ass to a kid with leg braces so i bitch slapped him (my friend) hard as i could and i was almost suspended for 10 days.... And worse yet in like 7th grade when i was a bully the kid who i knocked out for trying to stand up for himself got the same suspension i did. WTF is that. He should have been in the office just to confirm it was me but no cuz he threw a punch my way schools have 0 TOLERANCE. maybe im rambling but my point is that schools teach/force kids not to help/stand up.

I think the kid who stabbed the bully should face charges for a concealed weapon, but not murder id say he acted under extreme duress.

@LONGTIME said:

@one_upper said:

@LONGTIME: Then it should have been a lesser charge, but he shouldn't have gotten off with absolutely nothing.

No it shouldn't. The kid, by law had a right to defend himself, and that includes the use of deadly force.

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

How can one reasonably believe that their life is in danger to the point they can murder the other person when they themselves were not hurt seriously at all? The kid wasn't treated for any injuries, so how is the amount of force the kid used in any way close to what was used on him.

@redhood21: This situation is in no way duress.

If anything it's imperfect Self-defense which should earn him a lower charge.

@one_upper said:

@redhood21: This situation is in no way duress.

If anything it's imperfect Self-defense which should earn him a lower charge.

duress is any kind of stress or stressor and self defence would fall under that.

Murder is murder

Murder is murder

@redhood21 said:

@one_upper said:

@redhood21: This situation is in no way duress.

If anything it's imperfect Self-defense which should earn him a lower charge.

duress is any kind of stress or stressor and self defence would fall under that.

No, Self-Defense and Duress are considered different under the law.

Self-Defense is when you are in danger of death or bodily harm and reply with a similar amount of force against your assailant.

Duress is when a criminal uses threats of bodily harm or the like to coerce you into commiting a crime such as robbery or accessory liability. An example of this would be driving a getaway car or harboring a fugitive when you are at gunpoint.

@one_upper said:

@redhood21 said:

@one_upper said:

@redhood21: This situation is in no way duress.

If anything it's imperfect Self-defense which should earn him a lower charge.

duress is any kind of stress or stressor and self defence would fall under that.

No, Self-Defense and Duress are considered different under the law.

Self-Defense is when you are in danger of death or bodily harm and reply with a similar amount of force against your assailant.

Duress is when a criminal uses threats of bodily harm or the like to coerce you into commiting a crime such as robbery or accessory liability. An example of this would be driving a getaway car or harboring a fugitive when you are at gunpoint.

ahh thats right. and i wanna be a cop :( then what you said before!

@LONGTIME said:

@Duncan said:

Murder is murder

0/10 troll harder.

ORDER UP!

what really went down that day.

@redhood21: No problem. I'm going to be a cop too.

The seven defenses are.

.1 Self-Defense

.2 Duress

.3 Necessity

.4 Mistake of Fact

.5 Intoxication

.6 Immaturity

.7 Insanity

@one_upper said:

@redhood21: No problem. I'm going to be a cop too.

The seven defenses are.

.1 Self-Defense

.2 Duress

.3 Necessity

.4 Mistake of Fact

.5 Intoxication

.6 Immaturity

.7 Insanity

awsome! maybe i shouldnt have skimped on the cj courses lol

@LONGTIME said:

@BiteMe-Fanboy said:

Lock him up.

If you go and kill someone (even if they do pick on you hardcore) then what would stop you from killing someone else? Murder is murder. And if you kill someone you are a killer. And thats about it.

This wasn't a case of murder. This was a case of justifiable homicide. Deal with it.

Um, no. He killed a guy. So you're basically saying if you get bullied you have the right to kill them?

Thats retarded. Its murder. He took a human beings life, and did it in a horrible way. Stabbed him 12 times? He's got problem. IDC how bad he got bullied. You deserve to be in jail.

Go to the police, a parent, or a teacher. Might not help everytime, but its the right thing to do. Killing someone for such stupid reasons is no way 'justifiable'. C'mon man.

EDIT: Even if the bully beat him up and whatever. Get his ass arrested. He would get kicked out of school or even maybe sent to a youth detention center. The only way that murder would be 'justifiable' is if the guy had a knife and was trying to kill him and threatening his life.

Exactly. This could have ended with one kid with some bumps and bruises and another getting charges pressed against him (not dead). He should have let the law deal with it, he clearly was not in mortal danger, he hadn't sustained any serious injuries at the point he stabbed the kid 12 times.

@LONGTIME said:

@BiteMe-Fanboy said:

Lock him up.

If you go and kill someone (even if they do pick on you hardcore) then what would stop you from killing someone else? Murder is murder. And if you kill someone you are a killer. And thats about it.

This wasn't a case of murder. This was a case of justifiable homicide. Deal with it.

Um, no. He killed a guy. So you're basically saying if you get bullied you have the right to kill them?

Thats retarded. Its murder. He took a human beings life, and did it in a horrible way. Stabbed him 12 times? He's got problem. IDC how bad he got bullied. You deserve to be in jail.

Go to the police, a parent, or a teacher. Might not help everytime, but its the right thing to do. Killing someone for such stupid reasons is no way 'justifiable'. C'mon man.

EDIT: Even if the bully beat him up and whatever. Get his ass arrested. He would get kicked out of school or even maybe sent to a youth detention center. The only way that murder would be 'justifiable' is if the guy had a knife and was trying to kill him and threatening his life.

@LONGTIME: Funny how he had no serious injuries and yet he thought his life was in danger to the point he stabbed someone 12 times. It doesn't add up.

@one_upper said:

Bullshit.

No profanity, please.

One side of me approves of this... another says "NO!"

...90% of the posts I've read in this thread are laughable.

Oh, if only I was less lazy...I'd pull a Faded. There'd be a long wall of refutations spanning several pages layered with heavily dismissive, witty sarcasm.

I'm not even going to dignify that with answer because you're probably the kind of person that even if I gave you my reason for thinking the way I do you would make more asinine claims like that...so it's cool. So many of you seem to live in a black and white world. You must be Christians. It's not your fault

@Jezer said:

...90% of the posts I've read in this thread are laughable.

Oh, if only I was less lazy...I'd pull a Faded. There'd be a long wall of refutations spanning several pages layered with heavily dismissive, witty sarcasm.

Many threads involving some sort of realism to it contains such things.