Is this Neo-Nazism?

Hello, I was born in South Korea.

I'm posting this because of an event happened in Korea.

Recently a Korean writer has wrote a novel, which includes a quote Main characters says they admire 'Paul Joseph Goebbels'.

Many readers(including myself) hated it and complained and blamed publisher and author.

On the other hand, some readers say "It's just fiction; you shouldn't take it so seriously!"

What are your opinions? You think it's Neo -Nazism? Or you think it's just a joke?

who the fudge is paul gobubbles?

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

who the fudge is paul gobubbles?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

@modunhanul said:

Hello, I was born in South Korea.

I'm posting this because of an event happened in Korea.

Recently a Korean writer has wrote a novel, which includes a quote Main characters says they admire 'Paul Joseph Goebbels'.

Many readers(including myself) hated it and complained and blamed publisher and author.

On the other hand, some readers say "It's just fiction; you shouldn't take it so seriously!"

What are your opinions? You think it's Neo -Nazism? Or you think it's just a joke?

well that depends of the context of the quote

but just because a writer creates a character doesnt mean that they are projecting a very negative trait from themselves into that character

just cause this character admires a nazi doesnt makes the writer into a nazi

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

Basically this. (As long as the writer doesn't share these views). It's a character, and by the context of your post, you're probably not supposed to like the character.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

No. Characters are not Nazis.

@modunhanul said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

No. Characters are not Nazis.

Yes there are nazi characters out there,Red Skull,Crossbones etc.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

This. The book itself might not necessarily be Neo-Nazism.

It depends on the context; how is the character presented? How do other characters react to the character's opinions? In the end, what is the final verdict regarding the character's opinions, and do they come into conflict in the story? What is the author's history? Could it simply be fiction, without the author actually believing what his protagonist believes?

If you don't like someones art, move on. You have no right to be offended. I believe in freedom of speech and people who complain for censorship are scumbags.

@mrdecepticonleadersaid:

@modunhanul said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

No. Characters are not Nazis.

Yes there are nazi characters out there,Red Skull,Crossbones etc.

I know there are Nazi characters like Captain Nazi or Red Skull exist. What I meant was characters who said they admire Joseph Goebbels are not Nazis. They are normal girls.

@JediXMan said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

This. The book itself might not necessarily be Neo-Nazism.

It depends on the context; how is the character presented? How do other characters react to the character's opinions? In the end, what is the final verdict regarding the character's opinions, and do they come into conflict in the story? What is the author's history? Could it simply be fiction, without the author actually believing what his protagonist believes?

It's two characters. One of them is Main characters girlfriend and other is main character's younger sister. Their ages are about 14 to 17.

They say "I admire Goebbels most." at the same time. Although they were not planning to say it at the same time.

Main character hears it but he doesn't do anything. He doesn't think anything about it, actually.

After that they controls the high school's radio rooms and media rooms.

The writer of this novel's previous book's protagonist kills millions of people.

Well, I think that's all I know. I might remember other stuffs later, though.

@Bogey said:

If you don't like someones art, move on. You have no right to be offended. I believe in freedom of speech and people who complain for censorship are scumbags.

I'm not trying to upset anyone. I'm just curious about other people's opinions.

@modunhanul said:

@mrdecepticonleadersaid:

@modunhanul said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

No. Characters are not Nazis.

Yes there are nazi characters out there,Red Skull,Crossbones etc.

I know there are Nazi characters like Captain Nazi or Red Skull exist. What I meant was characters who said they admire Joseph Goebbels are not Nazis. They are normal girls.

@JediXMan said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Well the character might be a Nazi?

It depends on the context.If a character is written to say they admire a Nazi then that is part of their character.Its not actually Nazism it self though.

This. The book itself might not necessarily be Neo-Nazism.

It depends on the context; how is the character presented? How do other characters react to the character's opinions? In the end, what is the final verdict regarding the character's opinions, and do they come into conflict in the story? What is the author's history? Could it simply be fiction, without the author actually believing what his protagonist believes?

It's two characters. One of them is Main characters girlfriend and other is main character's younger sister. Their ages are about 14 to 17.

They say "I admire Goebbels most." at the same time. Although they were not planning to say it at the same time.

Main character hears it but he doesn't do anything. He doesn't think anything about it, actually.

After that they controls the high school's radio rooms and media rooms.

The writer of this novel's previous book's protagonist kills millions of people.

Well, I think that's all I know. I might remember other stuffs later, though.

But just because someone says that it doesn't make them a Nazi,I mean what did they actually say? Maybe you aren't meant to like the main character?

What book is this?

You should read a book called "White Noise" by Don DeLillo. That book is filled with absurdity and nazi stuff.

I don't think it's Neo-Nazism. One can admire Hitler (he was able to convince millions of people to do the most heinous things imaginable, and he managed to do it within a few years), so he's certainly an excellent leader, but still the worst person in history.

To a less extreme example, one can admire the talent of Chris Benoit, but still abhor the fact he murdered his family.

Admiration is not an all encapsulating ideal.

So the main character may admire Goebbels in the sense that he was a talented manipulator and a man of tremendous conviction and passion, but still wish him to rot in the deepest pits of Hell.

Unfortunately (though understandably if one has a personal relation to the events), people assume that just because a person can be admirable, they have to be liked. Admiring a particularly quality of a person does not mean liking the person, or considering them absolved of sin, it's merely the ability to separate them into specific pieces.

However, if the main character said that they admired Goebbels for his devotion to the genocide of the Jewish people, then yes, they are a Neo-Nazi and a heinously evil character.

@mrdecepticonleader: Look at the my reply of JediXMan's comment. I really don't care about the main characters. I don't like them but I don't hate them.The book is a light novel? I really don't know much about it.

@Bogey: Okay, thank you.

@FadeToBlackBolt: Thanks for your opinion.

@modunhanul said:

@mrdecepticonleader: Look at the my reply of JediXMan's comment. I really don't care about the main characters. I don't like them but I don't hate them.The book is a light novel? I really don't know much about it.

@Bogey: Okay, thank you.

I did so you haven't actually read the book? And have already made your mind up about it? Okay

I don't think it's Neo-Nazism.It's how others have said,it's just fiction.Everybody has a different point of view but in my opinion it's not Neo-Nazism.

Hitler and Stalin both approached Ferdinand Porsche to create a people's car for their countries. The Soviet Union lost out only because of the language barrier. The Volkswagon (the people's car) was the result of this collaboration, which is a vehicle meant to be relatively high in performance for minimal cost. The German auto industry owes quite a bit of its success from it's early backing of Hitler's government (including Audi). Looking for things to admire in historical figures considered "evil" isn't too difficult when you separate the action from the person. Maybe these characters were reflecting that -- they stated they admire Goebbels which explains partly why they went on teo control their school's media entirely. In the context of the story (as shared here) they can be singular in what they admire in Goebbels as he was responsible for doing the same to a high degree of success during Hitler's tenure.

Just History being regurgitated in a very piece-meal way. Volkswagon is still around and so is the historical recognition of someone's prowess in terms of influential propaganda practices and stranglehold on Arts and Media.

Much ado about nothing in that context (not saying I have it right, there is some assumption on my part) and now I really, really want to read this book, lol.

Short answer: No.

@Bogey said:

If you don't like someones art, move on. You have no right to be offended. I believe in freedom of speech and people who complain for censorship are scumbags.

The second half of this I agree with. There are very few (I won't say none, but I'm hard-pressed to find one) ideas which should actually not be permitted to be aired.

But the second sentence makes no sense. Freedom of speech is the right to say something even if it offends other people -- the implication being that people absolutely will get offended by it, that your message may well be recognized by many people as being offensive.

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

I don't think we should get worried over a work of fiction and what a fictional character may say or do. What ever the author's intent, he/she is somewhat protected by being one step removed from the statements/actions of a fictional story/character.

Where a person may cross the line is in a personal statement or manifesto. But even in that regard they are still protected by free speech (in the USA at at least) and the only weapon left to society to combat such statements is by creating a public relations nightmare which might prevent the author from being able to find legit business partners. Otherwise we just need to grow thicker skins if we ourselves wish to be free to speak our own minds.

Nope, it was simply taken out of context.

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolf Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

@lykopis said:

Hitler and Stalin both approached Ferdinand Porsche to create a people's car for their countries. The Soviet Union lost out only because of the language barrier. The Volkswagon (the people's car) was the result of this collaboration, which is a vehicle meant to be relatively high in performance for minimal cost. The German auto industry owes quite a bit of its success from it's early backing of Hitler's government (including Audi). Looking for things to admire in historical figures considered "evil" isn't too difficult when you separate the action from the person. Maybe these characters were reflecting that -- they stated they admire Goebbels which explains partly why they went on teo control their school's media entirely. In the context of the story (as shared here) they can be singular in what they admire in Goebbels as he was responsible for doing the same to a high degree of success during Hitler's tenure.

Just History being regurgitated in a very piece-meal way. Volkswagon is still around and so is the historical recognition of someone's prowess in terms of influential propaganda practices and stranglehold on Arts and Media.

Much ado about nothing in that context (not saying I have it right, there is some assumption on my part) and now I really, really want to read this book, lol.

True

Do you know what book it is?

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

Say what you want, but he did a lot for the German people.

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

Say what you want, but he did a lot for the German people.

Tell that to the people who went to the concentration camps.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

Say what you want, but he did a lot for the German people.

Tell that to the people who went to the concentration camps.

Okay, I'm talking about the people he actually helped. It was an example.

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

Say what you want, but he did a lot for the German people.

Tell that to the people who went to the concentration camps.

Okay, I'm talking about the people he actually helped. It was an example.

Well okay.I just don't think he is someone to admire because of some of the good things he may have done.His most defining actions are those of harm and mass murder.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

Say what you want, but he did a lot for the German people.

Tell that to the people who went to the concentration camps.

Okay, I'm talking about the people he actually helped. It was an example.

Well okay.I just don't think he is someone to admire because of some of the good things he may have done.His most defining actions are those of harm and mass murder.

Sure, but the point I was making is that just because someone admires a Nazi, it doesn't instantly equal neo-Nazism. Even Hitler did SOME good.

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

@BlackReaper said:

@kuonphobos said:

The most worrisome part of this thread is that someone didn't know who Goebbels was.

Let's face it, most people don't.

No, I wouldn't consider it neo-Nazism. I sort of admire Adolph Hitler. (Wait for it) Do I agree with his twisted ideology? Hell no. However, I do admire the fact that he fought his way to power and fixed a broken country. I'm also not a big fan of his military tactics.

Fixed a broken country? More like grabbing the proverbial wrecking ball and running rampart.

Say what you want, but he did a lot for the German people.

Tell that to the people who went to the concentration camps.

Okay, I'm talking about the people he actually helped. It was an example.

Well okay.I just don't think he is someone to admire because of some of the good things he may have done.His most defining actions are those of harm and mass murder.

Sure, but the point I was making is that just because someone admires a Nazi, it doesn't instantly equal neo-Nazism. Even Hitler did SOME good.

Fair enough,I suppose.

@mrdecepticonleader:

It has been driving me crazy! Been searching on and off all day unsuccessfully. Hopefully the OP will be forthcoming with it.

@Bogey said:

If you don't like someones art, move on. You have no right to be offended. I believe in freedom of speech and people who complain for censorship are scumbags.

Uh...no, taking offense is a geniune reaction after an unsavory experience. Only someone bereft of emotion, or has been lobotomized, will never be offended. And this Viner isnt even complaining here...rather, getting more perspectives. Also, this thread has nothing to do with the First Amendment; at no point was @modunhanul: arguing to supress the freedom of speech.

If someone is willing to put their writing in the public eye; they need to be willing to accept disapproval.

Apple pie.

@jeanlucpicard said:

Apple pie.

I, actually, agree with this. FTW!!!!!

@lykopis said:

@mrdecepticonleader:

It has been driving me crazy! Been searching on and off all day unsuccessfully. Hopefully the OP will be forthcoming with it.

I asked the OP what the title was and they have yet to reply.

@arnoldoaad said:

@modunhanul said:

Hello, I was born in South Korea.

I'm posting this because of an event happened in Korea.

Recently a Korean writer has wrote a novel, which includes a quote Main characters says they admire 'Paul Joseph Goebbels'.

Many readers(including myself) hated it and complained and blamed publisher and author.

On the other hand, some readers say "It's just fiction; you shouldn't take it so seriously!"

What are your opinions? You think it's Neo -Nazism? Or you think it's just a joke?

well that depends of the context of the quote

but just because a writer creates a character doesnt mean that they are projecting a very negative trait from themselves into that character

just cause this character admires a nazi doesnt makes the writer into a nazi

This.

The character could have just meant he admired Goebbels work in cinema which was quite influential at the time in Germany/Europe. If he meant he admired him because he was a Nazi and the beliefs he held wouldn't he just say he admired Hitler instead?

If a writer writes a story about a killer doesn't that mean he advocates killing? No.

Stories would be very boring if people only wrote about people like them with their same morals, beliefs, etc...