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#1 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
Just a few minutes ago... the Street Fighting Legend and Mixed Martial Artist Kimbo Slice suffered his first loss in his four fight career by a MMA fighter named Seth Petracelli. Kimbo was taken out in 14 seconds of the first round. Even though Kimbo wasnt set up to fight Seth Petracelli... Kimbo was embarassed in this fight and he is supposed to be the new face of Mixed Martial Arts for the future... and I am starting to wonder... is this Kimbo Slice fighter really as good as people are making him out to be ?

Is Kimbo Overrated ?
#2 Posted by Psysis (2396 posts) - - Show Bio

just another lucky brawler, yes he's overrated

#3 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
Psysis said:
"just another lucky brawler, yes he's overrated"
Ha Ha Ha  !
#4 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

He just got knocke don his ass by a far superior fighter.....he's all hype, no skill.

So what he beat up a bunch of fat bums off the street. Against a skilled fighter he will lose more often then not.

#5 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
Yeah Kimbo looked terrible tonight...I couldnt believed what happened. I almost choked on a chicken nugget when I saw the fight

lol
#6 Posted by Psysis (2396 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"He just got knocke don his ass by a far superior fighter.....he's all hype, no skill.

So what he beat up a bunch of fat bums off the street. Against a skilled fighter he will lose more often then not."

true
#7 Posted by Wisppeons (3726 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"He just got knocke don his ass by a far superior fighter.....he's all hype, no skill.

So what he beat up a bunch of fat bums off the street. Against a skilled fighter he will lose more often then not."

+ 2 points
#8 Posted by Rune (302 posts) - - Show Bio

he has some skills dont discredit him, he beat James thopmson who has show flashes of good work.

But by no means is he as good as he was thought to be.

#9 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

My friends made a big deal about him a while ago and i was like ....wait till he actually figths someone good....and then BAM...yup overrated

#10 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

#11 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
Beautifully said lol....did u see what he said agter the fight?
#12 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
I agree with what you are saying... but understand I live in Miami... and Kimbo Slice is from Miami... this dude is like a fu#king king down here man. They make it like he is the best fighter to ever live down here... but I do wonder what folks will be saying after tonight... I just texted my cousin and he has just fu#king lost it man. He was like the biggest Kimbo fan alive

lol
#13 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
Beautifully said lol....did u see what he said agter the fight?"
Something about an afterparty? lol
I wouldn't be too unhappy, either.  Hell, I don't begrudge him anything.  His little internet thing, which is pretty amusing, got him to where he is now, got him some big paychecks, and probably will get him a few more before it's all said and done.
#14 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

It's their fault for making him out to be a lot more than he ever was...

#15 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
So I guess a Kimbo Slice vs Brock Lesnar fight isnt out of the question now huh ?

lol
#16 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
I agree with what you are saying... but understand I live in Miami... and Kimbo Slice is from Miami... this dude is like a fu#king king down here man. They make it like he is the best fighter to ever live down here... but I do wonder what folks will be saying after tonight... I just texted my cousin and he has just fu#king lost it man. He was like the biggest Kimbo fan alive

lol
"

Ah.  Well, I'm not from Miami, but it sounds like he'll always be king down there no matter what.  Everybody loses.  When they think you're the king, it's pretty hard to change their minds.  Muhammad Ali was king around the world and lost to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick, but he's still the king around the world.  Kimbo gets demolished by some full contact karate guy and he'll still be king in Miami.  That's just the way of the world.  He'll always have free meals in Miami. lol
#17 Posted by Psysis (2396 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"So I guess a Kimbo Slice vs Brock Lesnar fight isnt out of the question now huh ?

lol
"

i'd like to see that one
#18 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"So I guess a Kimbo Slice vs Brock Lesnar fight isnt out of the question now huh ?

lol
"

Lesnar would mop the floor with him.  Kimbo beat up street fighters on the internet and has been told by Elite XC that he's the heavyweight king.  Lesnar is a world class wrestler who is taking his lumps and gaining experience the right way... learning his lessons by fighting some of the top heavyweights in the world, winning some and losing some.  He isn't getting bums trotted out in front of him or getting told he's anything in the UFC.
#19 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
I agree with what you are saying... but understand I live in Miami... and Kimbo Slice is from Miami... this dude is like a fu#king king down here man. They make it like he is the best fighter to ever live down here... but I do wonder what folks will be saying after tonight... I just texted my cousin and he has just fu#king lost it man. He was like the biggest Kimbo fan alive

lol
"

Ah.  Well, I'm not from Miami, but it sounds like he'll always be king down there no matter what.  Everybody loses.  When they think you're the king, it's pretty hard to change their minds.  Muhammad Ali was king around the world and lost to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick, but he's still the king around the world.  Kimbo gets demolished by some full contact karate guy and he'll still be king in Miami.  That's just the way of the world.  He'll always have free meals in Miami. lol"
Okay... the Ali comment is wild here...cause Ali was old as hell when he lost to Trevor Berbick and Leon Spinks... so I give him a pass for those losses
#20 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
I agree with what you are saying... but understand I live in Miami... and Kimbo Slice is from Miami... this dude is like a fu#king king down here man. They make it like he is the best fighter to ever live down here... but I do wonder what folks will be saying after tonight... I just texted my cousin and he has just fu#king lost it man. He was like the biggest Kimbo fan alive

lol
"

Ah.  Well, I'm not from Miami, but it sounds like he'll always be king down there no matter what.  Everybody loses.  When they think you're the king, it's pretty hard to change their minds.  Muhammad Ali was king around the world and lost to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick, but he's still the king around the world.  Kimbo gets demolished by some full contact karate guy and he'll still be king in Miami.  That's just the way of the world.  He'll always have free meals in Miami. lol"
Okay... the Ali comment is wild here...cause Ali was old as hell when he lost to Trevor Berbick and Leon Spinks... so I give him a pass for those losses"

Well, that's what I'm saying.  Everyone, including myself, gives him a pass.  He's the king, man... and I'm sure everyone in Miami will give Kimbo a pass, too.
#21 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"King Saturn said:
"HobGadling said:
"

Nobody who knows anything about the sport was ever taking him seriously, and no one was making him out to be the new face of MMA except for his second rate promotion.  He was overrated by the general public, sure, but most of the general public hasn't watched much MMA.  I'm not even sure if he was really being considered a favorite over Shamrock, who's prime was over a decade ago and who'd since grown too old to translate his knowledge into results, losing his last five fights.  I can't think of one other heavyweight good enough for the general public to recognize that Kimbo would be anything other than a severe underdog against.  Elite XC had been trotting out bums to fight him, and a UFC retread drowned him in punches tonight.

"
I agree with what you are saying... but understand I live in Miami... and Kimbo Slice is from Miami... this dude is like a fu#king king down here man. They make it like he is the best fighter to ever live down here... but I do wonder what folks will be saying after tonight... I just texted my cousin and he has just fu#king lost it man. He was like the biggest Kimbo fan alive

lol
"

Ah.  Well, I'm not from Miami, but it sounds like he'll always be king down there no matter what.  Everybody loses.  When they think you're the king, it's pretty hard to change their minds.  Muhammad Ali was king around the world and lost to Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick, but he's still the king around the world.  Kimbo gets demolished by some full contact karate guy and he'll still be king in Miami.  That's just the way of the world.  He'll always have free meals in Miami. lol"
Okay... the Ali comment is wild here...cause Ali was old as hell when he lost to Trevor Berbick and Leon Spinks... so I give him a pass for those losses"

Well, that's what I'm saying.  Everyone, including myself, gives him a pass.  He's the king, man... and I'm sure everyone in Miami will give Kimbo a pass, too."
Maybe. But from what I saw of him tonight... he aint no King of Miami... so tonight I will be taking my 303 Crown back from Kimbo... I am sorry I even let that dude even hold it

lol
#22 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

My boy Andrei Arlovsky threw a pretty wicked punch tnite.

#23 Posted by Wisppeons (3726 posts) - - Show Bio

+6 to everyone in this thread in my book

#24 Posted by inferiorego (25694 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"

My boy Andrei Arlovsky threw a pretty wicked punch tnite.

"
That guy is awesome, I miss him in UFC...


As for Kimbo, I was a huge fan of his years back on the intrawebs. His first KO in MMA, the guy seemed to throw the fight. As for tonight, Seth beat him, fair and square. HOWEVER, if you watch the replay, the ref was looking to call it as soon as possible, he actually puts his hand on Seth's neck to stop it once, but then takes a step back for 5 more seconds. I personally think he called the fight too soon. It was a fight I couldn't believe I stayed awake for... Yes, I wanted to go to bed at 10pm on a Saturday.... now it's 1am
Staff
#25 Edited by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, he is over-hyped, overrated, disrespectful, an embarrassment to the sport, a sideshow attraction, etc. I can't even imagine how much he regrets taking the fight against Petruzelli. Not only did tonight prove that he has no MMA skills, it also heralds the end of EliteXC as an organization, unless Affliction clings to their sinking ship for some reason, which seems very unlikely. I was intrigued by the "Fedor Will Return" ads. I wonder how pissed Tim Sylvia is that they ran that ad of him getting absolutely demolished about a dozen times on national television... 

Overall, the best fight was Gina Carano's, and that's just sad. Imagine the glee that Dana White must have felt upon seeing/hearing the news of Kimbo's defeat. The heads of Affliction and EliteXC both made it quite clear that they thought their putting on a joint show would have Dana worried. It's so wonderful and hilarious, I'm still having trouble believing it, even though I must have watched that KO about a dozen times now. That jab barely had the force of a stiff breeze behind it. Who would have guessed that Kimbo had no jaw?
#26 Posted by inferiorego (25694 posts) - - Show Bio
Korg said:

Overall, the best fight was Gina Carano's, and that's just sad.
Every fight I've seen of hers has been great. I can't believe they made her an American Gladiator..... Sh@t, I probably do it too for the paycheck
Staff
#27 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't get me wrong, Gina is a decent fighter (despite the fact that she can never make weight in a weight class that was specifically created for her... and she's still gonna get slaughtered by Cyborg when they fight anyway).  It's just that the rest of the matches (especially Ninja/Radach) were so terrible by comparison, despite fighters who should be doing much better than they are. Even Shields would get absolutely dominated by Carlos Condit, never mind anyone in the UFC welterweight division. Watching Arlovski struggle with Big Country made me sad as well. Both because he looked weak, and because the ref. kept standing them up for no reason other than that the crowd started to mutiny when it went to the ground.

#28 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

Gina is hott lol :)

#29 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

 Lunacyde said:

"Gina is hott lol :)"
Can't argue with that.
#30 Posted by inferiorego (25694 posts) - - Show Bio
Korg said:
Watching Arlovski struggle with Big Country made me sad as well. Both because he looked weak, and because the ref. kept standing them up for no reason other than that the crowd started to mutiny when it went to the ground."
lol, very true
Staff
#31 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

It is a sad state of affairs...

#32 Edited by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Luckily there is a free UFC card on October 18th to look forward to, and there's a WEC card on November 5th that should be pretty entertaining. I love watching Uriah Faber fight. And in December Randy's coming back! Too bad it's to fight Lesnar...

#33 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Kimbo took his first loss. He's still a rookie in MMA. With time, he'll get better...

#34 Posted by Resonate (15054 posts) - - Show Bio

OMGHELOST D:

#35 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"Just a few minutes ago... the Street Fighting Legend and Mixed Martial Artist Kimbo Slice suffered his first loss in his four fight career by a MMA fighter named Seth Petracelli. Kimbo was taken out in 14 seconds of the first round. Even though Kimbo wasnt set up to fight Seth Petracelli... Kimbo was embarassed in this fight and he is supposed to be the new face of Mixed Martial Arts for the future... and I am starting to wonder... is this Kimbo Slice fighter really as good as people are making him out to be ?

Is Kimbo Overrated ?
"
to put it plain and simple, would you wanna pick a match with him?
#36 Posted by inferiorego (25694 posts) - - Show Bio
Korg said:
"Luckily there is a free UFC card on October 18th to look forward to, and there's a WEC card on November 5th that should be pretty entertaining. I love watching Uriah Faber fight. And in December Randy's coming back! Too bad it's to fight Lesnar..."
It's in Chicago and my buddies all have tickets... I'm pissed. However, I didn't want to shell out $300 bones for it....
Staff
#37 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Kimbo took his first loss. He's still a rookie in MMA. With time, he'll get better..."
No, he won't, because he will be fighting cans, not top competition. Ken Shamrock and Seth Petruzelli are the closest to actual MMA fights that he's had, and neither of them are even relevant in MMA anymore. James Thompson pretty much beat him, but Elite XC couldn't have their poster boy go down to him, so they didn't stop the fight while Thompson was completely dominating him and then called the fight off on a very questionable injury to save Kimbo from gassing completely, which he did anyway.
#38 Posted by Christella May (199 posts) - - Show Bio

That call was bull, i think he would have got up and unleashed some stuff

#39 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
Christella May said:
"That call was bull, i think he would have got up and unleashed some stuff"
You are wrong. He would have gotten KO'd even worse. He tried to take the ref down after he stopped it, for cryin out loud.
#40 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Victor von Doom said:

"King Saturn said:
"Just a few minutes ago... the Street Fighting Legend and Mixed Martial Artist Kimbo Slice suffered his first loss in his four fight career by a MMA fighter named Seth Petracelli. Kimbo was taken out in 14 seconds of the first round. Even though Kimbo wasnt set up to fight Seth Petracelli... Kimbo was embarassed in this fight and he is supposed to be the new face of Mixed Martial Arts for the future... and I am starting to wonder... is this Kimbo Slice fighter really as good as people are making him out to be ?

Is Kimbo Overrated ?
"
to put it plain and simple, would you wanna pick a match with him?"


Thats irrelevent....no one here is a pro fighter(that I know of lol). You are just reinforcing the point that Kimbo can't fight any really good skilled fighters

If I were a pro fighter like Randy Couture or Forrest Griffin I certainly wouldnt be afraid of him, in fact if I was one of them i would welcome a match with him. Heck my boy St. Pierre is outweighed by 50+ lbs and if I were him I wouldnt be afraid of Kimbo either 

#41 Posted by HobGadling (706 posts) - - Show Bio
Dr. Victor von Doom said:
"King Saturn said:
"Just a few minutes ago... the Street Fighting Legend and Mixed Martial Artist Kimbo Slice suffered his first loss in his four fight career by a MMA fighter named Seth Petracelli. Kimbo was taken out in 14 seconds of the first round. Even though Kimbo wasnt set up to fight Seth Petracelli... Kimbo was embarassed in this fight and he is supposed to be the new face of Mixed Martial Arts for the future... and I am starting to wonder... is this Kimbo Slice fighter really as good as people are making him out to be ?

Is Kimbo Overrated ?
"
to put it plain and simple, would you wanna pick a match with him?"

How much would I make?  Would my hospital bill be covered?  If the answer is to question #1 is more than $20,000, and the answer to question #2 is yes, then by all means, YES!  I'd even try to win instead of just taking a dive so I wouldn't get hurt!  My hatred of work knows no bounds.  Kimbo would be my meal ticket to a year off... and, truth be told, my teeth need work anyway.  Might as well get 'em fixed for free!  By the way, no, I wouldn't take a dive, but I wouldn't worry about getting DQ'd either. lol
#42 Posted by King Saturn (224286 posts) - - Show Bio
Dr. Victor von Doom said:
"King Saturn said:
"Just a few minutes ago... the Street Fighting Legend and Mixed Martial Artist Kimbo Slice suffered his first loss in his four fight career by a MMA fighter named Seth Petracelli. Kimbo was taken out in 14 seconds of the first round. Even though Kimbo wasnt set up to fight Seth Petracelli... Kimbo was embarassed in this fight and he is supposed to be the new face of Mixed Martial Arts for the future... and I am starting to wonder... is this Kimbo Slice fighter really as good as people are making him out to be ?

Is Kimbo Overrated ?
"
to put it plain and simple, would you wanna pick a match with him?"
No Sir. But I am not a MMA fighter... ( I do practice Hapkido and Kickboxing though)... but I dont fight as a professional. I didnt make this thread just to bash Kimbo... I made it out of disappointment of what I saw from him... he was supposed to be the next great big MMA fighter instead he looked very much unlike what he was represented to be last night.
#43 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

I know sorry it's just ive been telling people for months and months that he was overrated and no one would believe me and no I have been proven correct so i am pumped

#44 Edited by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
" he was supposed to be the next great big MMA fighter instead he looked very much unlike what he was represented to be last night."
He was never going to be the next great big MMA fighter. He was just extremely overhyped by CBS. He still hasn't fought anyone worth their salt, including Petruzelli. Most of the Middleweight division of the UFC would have no problem handing him his ass, never mind LHW or HW. He's pretty worthless as a mixed martial artist. I feel uncomfortable even calling him one. I bet Brian Stann would ruin him. He may go down as the biggest can in MMA history.
#45 Posted by Lunacyde (19319 posts) - - Show Bio

Haha who is your fav fighter?....right now I gotta say St.Pierre is my boy

#46 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Korg said:

"No, he won't, because he will be fighting cans, not top competition."

So, Kimbo has no chance of getting better? How can you be so sure?

#47 Edited by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

BJ Penn. He's a great fighter, and he's a hilarious guy with a good heart. Can't wait for his fight with GSP. Also gotta mention Anderson Silva, because he is so consistently amazing. I would say Fedor, but really, who doesn't love that guy? This season of TUF has me loving Big Nog all over again too. His reaction to Polakowski hugging him was awesome.

@Static: He absolutely has a chance to get better. He is training with Bas Rutten after all. Being better than a terrible fighter doesn't amount to much though. He's been "exposed" for what he is, and no one is going to want to put him up against opponents that would garner him recognition, because, frankly, they would all walk right through him. They were afraid to put him up against Brett Rogers until he was "tested" against Shamrock, who is 44 and has lost his last 5 fights by KO or TKO in the first round.
#48 Edited by The_MVPs (84694 posts) - - Show Bio

Although I think Kimbo is overhyped (not his fault) I also believe he does exactly what he was brought in to do, fill the seats. EliteX is like the K-Mart of MMA. No one outside of the diehard MMA fans had ever heard of it before KImbo. Petruzella isnt a chump by anymeans. Sure Kimbo should have beat him, but dont underrate the kid either. He has skills.

I cant lie anytime Kimbo is gonna fight I'll watch and I'm sure I'm not the only one either. I didnt need to see him lose to Petruzella to know he was overrated. I mean come on, he fought Tank Abbott for christ sakes. What is that dude, like 55 years old?

Moderator
#49 Posted by No_Name_ (17403 posts) - - Show Bio

:P

#50 Posted by Maya_Liafador (4421 posts) - - Show Bio