#1 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

.. That I am starting to like Rorschach from Watchmen (not the 1900's guy who invented the ink blot test), as a role model for the ability/stance of not compromising one's beliefs? I agree with his stance that there is no gray, there is only black and white, humans simply make errors and we think of it as "gray" so we don't have to admit we're wrong... But, the character Rorschach was crazy. Does that mean I'm destined to be crazy too? :O

#2 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

No. Admiring a crazy person's dedication to their beliefs does not make you crazy.

That's like asking if admiring the sun's helium content will make you talk with a high pitched voice.

#3 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

No. Admiring a crazy person's dedication to their beliefs does not make you crazy.

That's like asking if admiring the sun's helium content will make you talk with a high pitched voice.

Very amusing, and seemingly accurate analogy. Thank you for posting!

#4 Posted by Aronmorales (9434 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it's not wrong to like a character for their unyielding in their beliefs.

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

I've often said that despite being crazy Rorschach was the only real hero at the end of Watchmen since all the rest just automatically decided that Ozy did what was best and he was the only one to say, "Hey, we can't let a dude get away with mass murder."

#6 Posted by Aronmorales (9434 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

I've often said that despite being crazy Rorschach was the only real hero at the end of Watchmen since all the rest just automatically decided that Ozy did what was best and he was the only one to say, "Hey, we can't let a dude get away with mass murder."

My sentiments exactly.

#7 Posted by spetsnaz_gru (235 posts) - - Show Bio

What's weird is that you still have your XMas hat on.

#8 Posted by RobocopSlayerT800 (2341 posts) - - Show Bio

@spetsnaz_gru said:

What's weird is that you still have your XMas hat on.

lol

#9 Posted by AtPhantom (14486 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of people seemingly feel the same way. I (and, apparently, Alan Moore himself) find this rather unsettling since Rorschach was Alan Moore's critique on the whole idea of black and white morality.

#10 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Was Rorschach really crazy? He and the Comedian were the only people capable of figuring out the plot of the villain. Then again, I guess all crazy people get it before any sane person.

#11 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude Rorschach was awesome. No shame in that.

#12 Posted by AtPhantom (14486 posts) - - Show Bio

Rorschach's craziness is evident not in his intelligence or ability to deduce the villain's plot, but the fact that he is literally incapable of making complex choices. By the end of Watchmen Moore puts him in a situation where he cannot choose the right side, only the less wrong side, and he cannot cope with it. Instead of being forced to make a tough choice he basically self-destructs, begging Manhattan to kill him rather than having to choose which side to go with. I suppose you could call Rorschach a moral coward in that sense. In the end he chose to die rather than live with the consequences of what happened.

#13 Posted by MonsterStomp (13306 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude Rorschach was awesome. No shame in that.

#14 Posted by Xanni15 (6758 posts) - - Show Bio

I never really understood his character or his beliefs on crime, they seemed to be way too controlled or narrow minded. Either you've committed a crime or you haven't, there was no middle ground. This is no more evident than by his unwillingness to compromise and sacrifice. Rorschach was weak, unable to make the difficult choice for the betterment of the entire world.

I feel it is kinda weird to idolize that but go for it. :]

#15 Posted by Walzo (4352 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really... you just like the character. Doesn't mean you're crazy.

#16 Posted by satyrgod (2115 posts) - - Show Bio

Not weird, nor potentially "crazy"... just incredibly naive.

#17 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@satyrgod said:

Not weird, nor potentially "crazy"... just incredibly naive.

*Laughs*

Oh wait. You're serious! Let me laugh, even harder.

*LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL*

@Xanni15 said:

I never really understood his character or his beliefs on crime, they seemed to be way too controlled or narrow minded. Either you've committed a crime or you haven't, there was no middle ground. This is no more evident than by his unwillingness to compromise and sacrifice. Rorschach was weak, unable to make the difficult choice for the betterment of the entire world.

I feel it is kinda weird to idolize that but go for it. :]

Did you just say that Ozy made the right decision, then, in nuking half the world?

And here I was worried I was the crazy one.

@AtPhantom said:

Rorschach's craziness is evident not in his intelligence or ability to deduce the villain's plot, but the fact that he is literally incapable of making complex choices. By the end of Watchmen Moore puts him in a situation where he cannot choose the right side, only the less wrong side, and he cannot cope with it. Instead of being forced to make a tough choice he basically self-destructs, begging Manhattan to kill him rather than having to choose which side to go with. I suppose you could call Rorschach a moral coward in that sense. In the end he chose to die rather than live with the consequences of what happened.

He wasn't begging for Manhattan to kill him out of disability to make a choice one way or the other, he was saying that he couldn't live with letting the crime go unpayed for; and he wouldn't rest until the truth was out, so he told Manhattan, sadly, to kill him. He was sad that his friends had come to this and that this injustice would go unpunished. Why do you think he was crying? Why do you think he mentioned "one more body amongst foundations"? He's referring to his disappointment in the mass murder that was committed, and his friends' willingness to go along with it.

@Aronmorales said:

@joshmightbe said:

I've often said that despite being crazy Rorschach was the only real hero at the end of Watchmen since all the rest just automatically decided that Ozy did what was best and he was the only one to say, "Hey, we can't let a dude get away with mass murder."

My sentiments exactly.

#18 Posted by Joygirl (15403 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, and you should be ashamed.

...

Nah, he's fine. You're fine.

#19 Posted by laflux (11116 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

Yes, and you should be ashamed.

...

Nah, he's fine. You're fine.

#20 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

Just because Moore hated Rorschach doesn't mean everyone else has too. 
That said, being completely uncompromising might be a bit unhealthy.

#21 Posted by AtPhantom (14486 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123 said:

He wasn't begging for Manhattan to kill him out of disability to make a choice one way or the other, he was saying that he couldn't live with letting the crime go unpayed for; and he wouldn't rest until the truth was out, so he told Manhattan, sadly, to kill him. He was sad that his friends had come to this and that this injustice would go unpunished. Why do you think he was crying? Why do you think he mentioned "one more body amongst foundations"? He's referring to his disappointment in the mass murder that was committed, and his friends' willingness to go along with it.

Six of one, half a dozen of the others. The problem is that you're missing the other side of the equation, which that had the truth been revealed and Ozy brought to justice, it would have destabilized the peace he's made and bring about far more pain, death and suffering, and their blood would have been on his hands. That's the entire point of Watchmen. There was no right choice. The others decided to allow a great evil to go unpunished in order to end the Cold War and bring about peace on Earth. Rorschach didn't. Rorschach couldn't. But he couldn't bring Ozymandias in either because that would make him responsible for even more destruction. If justice was the only thing on his mind, he wouldn't back down, he would have fought them, he would have said something. Instead he tears his face off because Rorschach couldn't solve it. So he revealed the man beneath Rorschach and begged Manhattan to end it. It's not that he couldn't live with letting crime go unpunished. He couldn't live either way.

#22 Posted by SC (11979 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

Rorschach's craziness is evident not in his intelligence or ability to deduce the villain's plot, but the fact that he is literally incapable of making complex choices. By the end of Watchmen Moore puts him in a situation where he cannot choose the right side, only the less wrong side, and he cannot cope with it. Instead of being forced to make a tough choice he basically self-destructs, begging Manhattan to kill him rather than having to choose which side to go with. I suppose you could call Rorschach a moral coward in that sense. In the end he chose to die rather than live with the consequences of what happened.

Very nice, as was your most recent post on the matter.

Moderator
#23 Posted by AtPhantom (14486 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: Thanks.

#24 Posted by Target_X (379 posts) - - Show Bio

I love homicidal maniacs. <3

#25 Posted by RazzaTazz (9353 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123: Apophenia is a distinct form of craziness which is actually not very crazy.

Moderator
#26 Posted by Pyrogram (32267 posts) - - Show Bio

yes

#27 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@minigunman123 said:

He wasn't begging for Manhattan to kill him out of disability to make a choice one way or the other, he was saying that he couldn't live with letting the crime go unpayed for; and he wouldn't rest until the truth was out, so he told Manhattan, sadly, to kill him. He was sad that his friends had come to this and that this injustice would go unpunished. Why do you think he was crying? Why do you think he mentioned "one more body amongst foundations"? He's referring to his disappointment in the mass murder that was committed, and his friends' willingness to go along with it.

Six of one, half a dozen of the others. The problem is that you're missing the other side of the equation, which that had the truth been revealed and Ozy brought to justice, it would have destabilized the peace he's made and bring about far more pain, death and suffering, and their blood would have been on his hands. That's the entire point of Watchmen. There was no right choice. The others decided to allow a great evil to go unpunished in order to end the Cold War and bring about peace on Earth. Rorschach didn't. Rorschach couldn't. But he couldn't bring Ozymandias in either because that would make him responsible for even more destruction. If justice was the only thing on his mind, he wouldn't back down, he would have fought them, he would have said something. Instead he tears his face off because Rorschach couldn't solve it. So he revealed the man beneath Rorschach and begged Manhattan to end it. It's not that he couldn't live with letting crime go unpunished. He couldn't live either way.

Well, actually, there is a right choice, just bring Ozy to justice. The future isn't set in stone, they don't know for sure what would happen one way or the other, but you can't let someone get away with mass murder under some silly pretense that he's bringing peace through murder. That's called subjugation, or slavery, even though Ozy did it all behind the scenes.

Do you have any evidence for Rorschach feeling this way..? Because the book has pretty solid writing for what I described, yet I have no idea how you've come to your own conclusions on the matter. Rorschach knew that people had to be told. He was going to tell them. He knew Dr. Manhattan would kill him if he didn't stop on his quest to tell the truth, and these betrayals affected him deeply. The already emotionally unstable man, wanted Manhattan to just get it over with rather than drag it out.

#28 Posted by Strider92 (15311 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

No. Admiring a crazy person's dedication to their beliefs does not make you crazy.

That's like asking if admiring the sun's helium content will make you talk with a high pitched voice.

Wait it doesn't!? All that wasted time :(

#29 Posted by satyrgod (2115 posts) - - Show Bio

"Crazy"?

Crazy: Continuing to perform the same action in the same manner and expecting different results.

Denial: Maintaining the opinion or belief in an idea, concept or construct despite objective evidence and the opinion of other, rational adults to the contrary.

Draw you own conclusions.