Is firebending the weakest bending?

So, in Avatar, the four bending styles each have their own advantages and disadvantages. In theory, they're supposed to balance out, and each style is roughly even. However, to me, there are times when firebending seems to be a bit weaker than the other bending styles.

Don't get me wrong, there's some very good things about firebending. It can be used anywhere, it's direct and forceful, not to mention being able to punch fireballs is very cool.

However, there's also disadvantages. When it comes to raw power, firebenders tend to be lacking a bit. Look at ATLA for example. Aang makes giant tornadoes with airbending, Katara hurls small lakes or moves ships with waterbending, Toph flattens stairs or forms large walls with earthbending. In comparison, Zuko and Azula's biggest feats of raw power seem almost weak in comparison. They can't manipulate fire in the sheer quantity the air, earth, and water bender seem to be able to do. Same can be true in LOK, though there weren't many earthbenders with the raw power of Toph, Aang, and Bumi.

Then there's the offensive/defensive aspect of firebending. Firebenidng's very offensive, that's pretty much the whole style. And it's great. However, it's also probably the easiest style to defend against overall. It's very linear, attacks don't come at odd angles or in unexpected ways like you can do with other bending types. This makes it easier to dodge or block. When it comes to defense, firebenders don't really have many options for dealing with non-firebending attacks. They can dodge, or they can counter the attack with a fire blast, but that's about it. Any use of shields is rare and limited. In contrast, other bending styles have much more in the way of shielding moves or evasion techniques.

Maybe it's just me, but firebending seems to be one of the easier bending forms to counter. Airbending can negate fire blasts, while fire hasn't shown any ability to counter air. Metal is an excellent counter to firebending, as shown by Toph and Kuvira. Aang put his unenhanced earthbending and waterbending to great use against Ozai's comet enhanced firebending, highlighting their seemingly greater raw power.

Hopefully that makes sense. Not the most thought through analysis, but just a few thoughts. What do you all think? Are there advantages to firebending I'm missing?

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No its not, the weakest is none. They all got their balances, I'd say per hit for hit prolly earth, followed by water, fire, and then air. Air doing the least damage but pushing u the furthest. for quickness imo It'd go Air, fire, water, and earth. Now when it comes to special bending like lightning and so on. I'd say well its a toss up between Water and Earth, earth has some good ones and chances are your going to use these more than the water, but the water's special ability is thee best, so with that said I'd say it goes Water, earth ( only cause of metal bending lava bending is cool but its imo not as good as lightning in actual combat, but it can be better in situations or about the same ), fire, and air ( air having sand..... like really? XD )

So in total no element is better, and fire is not the weakest. It's a different type of fighting and remember people who are good with fire bending are known for a reason aka mako, azula, iroh, ozai, etc. They aren't weak, fire bending isn't weak either, it can become easily out of control ( proven by jeong jeong and aang out smarting Admiral zhao some how XD ).

Yeah, the firebending masters are good, but at the same time, put Azula, who's been training her whole life, up against Katara, a new waterbending master, and we've seen what happens.

I would have liked to have seen more firebending on the scale Jeong Jeong showed, he seemed to have raw power that could be comparable to guys like Pakku, Aang, Katara, or Toph (maybe not Bumi, but Bumi's speial)

@arcus: Remember, at least the last time she was insane, and we've seen what happens when Ozai fought aang. He nearly won and he had all four elements including fire, so once more it goes both ways. Its the fighting style that happens to matter not necessary the element. Remember zaheer beat two white lotus members and kya and he was a new airbending master, he also somewhat beat and stalemated tonraq who was also a master and had done water bending all his life, so that's not really an excuse! XD

Catacombs fight

Yeah, but firebending was massively enhanced, and Aang was still bending the other elements on a scale to match it

Zaheer wasn't actually completely knew, he was already a highly trained and adaptable fighter with the skill to use airbenidng like a weapon, plus he'd been preparing to teach Korra airbending after the RL kidnapped her. But fair point

i think fire-bending blows, tbh.

Why?

The thing is that there are 2 types of benders- those that can be separated from their elements and those that can't. The raw power of a Earth or Water bender can't be compared to a fire bender because unless they are in a place with an equivalent amount of Fire to Water/Earth we don't know if they can do more.

When compared to airbending, which is the only form in its category....its inferior because we've rarely seen a air bender that wasn't incredibly powerful or difficult to hold down.

That said, Sozin Azula with her lightning feats from the comics and sane is one of the best firebenders in a battle situation do to the character being the most well rounded Fire bender in the series, showcasing the offense, sheilds and diversity that other benders didnt with the same element. The only problem is that so many people have feats of blocking fire that she gets short changed. Similarly fire benders who create large amounts of Fire, like Jeong Jeong and Wan would arguably be comparable to the Aang's, Korra's and Bumi's but they lack combat feats that even some lower level firebenders have. So when you say Jeong is on par with Aang all a person had to do is show Aang dispersing Zuko's fire and the argument is moot because Jeong Jeong doesn't have a feat to prove his ability.

The fact is because we saw an entire series worth of firebenders and only came out with maybe 3 of them with solid feats unboosted, it sort of paints them as uncreative and simply relying on "More Dakka" for victory even among the more powerful. Contrast with how many unskilled water/earthbenders we've seen stand out because of a slight variation on normal bending for the element.

That said Ozai vs Aang has a lot of questionable moments when talking about Aangs defense, but I think a lot of it has to be attributed to the uniqueness of Aang as a bender

Even the new airbenders from Book 3 LOK seemed unusually powerful. I mean, that random guy on the bridge accidentally knocked off a whole group of metalbenders, then there's Opal and Jinora holding off an entire army-Opal even maintains the vortex by herself

Fair point about the relative lack of firebenders with solid feats

because fire can naturally be put out by the other elements. how the Fire nation made an empire is beyond me. (only watched a few avatar episodes, never got into it.)

@spoilerblock: ah, that explains it. Firebending in Avatar can be explosive and stuff

Combustion bending is a type of fire bending and I would say its pretty damn powerful.

thats cool and all, i'd be an earth bender over all of them. Rock>fire (pokemon logic)

They basically took over the Avatar world initially so I'd say no it's not

Personaly think that Air Benders are the weaker benders. Yes Air is pretty much everywhere but they have lot of weak points.

1- All Nations can use one more resource, Water can heal, control blood and Ice, Fire can use electricity and Earth can use Metal, Sand and Lava. But Air has Spirit which is great but so far they show that most meditation and training can Fly, Project their spirit to somewhere and summon spirts

2-They are monks, they often dont update their traditions, often lack fightining spirt and tend to not warm another being and use their bend in passive ways.

P.S. I dont hate Air Nation or Airbenders.

Firebending can be lolnope'd stopped by the other elements. Water, Air, and Earth all can pretty much cancel out fire. To me Fire can make up for this because they can make it out of nowhere while the others, except air need something to bend to work.

@hypnosis: well yeah, but it's not something any firebender can do@vitalius: The pacifism's an issue with the culture, not the bending

Smh...don't even get me started with Opal and Jinora..."Come on Korra! Get Up!! You've got to take her down!" "OR.. you two MF'ers could call 2 more airbenders, hurricane the whole army and we can go home without giving the PTSD Avatar a concussion!"


Yea though. I think it's also worth mentioning that when comparing Azula to Katara the amount of water is important. By end of series if Katara has as much water as she did in the catacombs she's KOing Azula in seconds...but if you give her a water pouch its non sense for her to be able to seriously take Azula for more then a few quick exchanges. I mean idk that many waterbenders (even among fodder) who can't call huge waves of water when it's available, while a firebender who matches that level of power would be abnormal. Seems to me that a firebending master isn't so much about power but about overall fighting skills, while Water and especially Earth seem to be about how much of your element you can connect to in order to control it.

@arcus:

Yeah but you need to be outsider or rebel like Zarheer to not being pacifist.

I literally have the same impression.

Fire seemed to have a raw power comparable to the other bendings only if used by wan or during the comet(or by combustion benders), and it seems less adaptable.

Before LoK i thought it stacked up with a faster "casting speed", but with pro-bending we have been shown that other bending can compete in that too with the right style.

I do think that our vision of airbending is distorted though, given that for all the other bendings we have seen every variation of power while for airbending we have nearly only seen incredibly powerful benders.

It's not really fair to call Katara a new waterbender. She was a prodigy who seemingly surpassed every other waterbending master on the show despite them all having a lifetime of experience over her.

I've been asking myself that question ever since getting into the show, and you know what? I think it's fine. I mean, look at how Iroh and Pakku were called equals, but most would say that Iroh is a more skilled, more powerful, more badass bender. Also, the damage output with fire is probably the highest. Just look at Azula with lightning. She effortlessly destroyed a rock barrier put up by Toph. If a skilled firebender runs into a water or earth bender in a corridor, the firebender is gonna win. Also, combustion bending is just OP.

However, I think Air is OP. I think that might be the reason in ATLA that they chose air to be the nation to get wiped out. People like Aang, Tenzin, Korra, and even noobs like Zaheer, Opal, Kai, and so on can just AoE the shit out of everything and counter pretty much everything.

But anyway, I think although fire is the simplest and the least varied, it's pretty awesome in the hands of a master. Remember when you made that Zaheer vs Zuko battle? It was a stalemate from pretty much everyone's opinion.

And the argument that fire is countered easily is flawed. Some fire jets could evaporate water and like I said lightning can obliterate rock. Lightning can also wreck waterbenders.

@justicethorpsylocke: obviously fire has its uses, don't get me wrong. Going by feats Pakku's better than Iroh (granted most of Pakku's feats are in the North Pole. @lunacyde: well in terms of time in training she was relatively new. Yeah, she was a prodigy, so was Azula

@arcus: Well then......

@justicethorpsylocke:

:)

Personally, it seems like fire could be the most destructive, just that the fire benders don't use it to its full capacity.

I wouldn't say the weaker but definitely the less versatile.

Huo Yuan Jia: I believe that there's no superiority or inferiority in Wushu. Just the distinction of practitioners with different levels of ability. Through the competition we can discover this and meet the true self. Because indeed the antagonist is namely ourself. Only through competition, can one recognise one's true self.

This is basically what applies to bending there is no weaker or stronger bending.

I'd say a beginner firebender would beat the beginners at other elements because is faster, more destructive and doesn't requires the same physical conditioning, since you need things like agility and practice at adaption to make some of the other elements more capable.

At fodder there is no real edges, bar water when vast quantities are around and maybe air.

At high levels firebenders need to be a lot more conditioned and physically capable to make up for the lack of defensive maneveures: they must be able to dodge. The only advantage it holds at high levels is fast lightning generation and slightly more dangerous offensive capabilities, but unfortunately the other elements can deflect, counter and evade almost simultaneously.

At absolute highest levels struggles but it can bridge the gap with work.

I honestly think it's because the other elements(air, water, and earth) all derive their bending from natural elements, like the air in the sky, the water in a lake, and then the earth around you, whereas Firebenders have to create and use their own element. In a sense, it's like the other elements are drawing on an outside source that gives them a lot to work with, while Friedbenders aren't.

I don't know if that makes sense or not, but yeah. Lol

Ik the catacombs, but honestly she was really lacking her usual power and honestly was kinda off,

However as I said aang was bending elements to match Ozai do we need to bring up the gifs? Even still its still a good overall element against others shall we bring up mako and some more as well?

Zaheer was new to air bending, but he was practicing bumi was also knew and yet look at him? Even Tenzin trained the other air benders and yet they were still not even close to zaheer's level this doesn't necessary mean air sucks, its what I stated the element is only as good as the user is.

As much as I dislike it fire is definitely the weakest element. There's no question about it.

Consider this. Who would win between Zuko and Toph if they didn't have their bending, assuming Toph keeps her vision? Zuko, obviously. He's older, stronger, more agile, and all around vastly physically superior to her in every way. He's a young teenager who has trained his whole life to condition his body to it's peak so that he can fight, where as she's a pampered 12 year old girl.

Now do it again but with katara. Again, Zuko is much stronger, faster, more agile, and better conditioned all around. He'd obliterate Katara in a straight physical altercation despite being close to the same age.

Do it again with Aang. Same result.

Now give them all their bending back. Zuko loses a firm majority every. Single. Time. Even if you replace Zuko with Azula the results are much the same. Zuko, Azula, and Ozai all have highly conditioned bodies and the best physicality from TLA we've seen. But for the most part once you add bending into the mix the other, VASTLY physically inferior characters can fight them evenly, if not beat them.

The reason for this is that a firebender is FORCED to condition their body to be effective. You couldn't have a firebender equivalent to Toph. She wouldn't be agile enough to work around the element's weak defense, nor fast enough to capitalize on quick cast speed of the fire blasts. If you want to be a master firebender you have to work a lot more than any other bender just to reach similar results. And even then fire is the least versatile. All the other elements can be used to a greater effect than fire, even in terms of sheer killing potential which is suppose to be fire's strong suit.

Technically, if you think about it, after Aang and Zuko's encounter with the Dragon in Book 4 of A:TLA, and their revelation that the element of fire isn't simply destructive, but encompasses all forms of radiative energy, you should have seen a lot more feats for firebenders based on that revelation in A:TLK. Think about it; the Dragon could use its control over the element of fire to warp light. By A:TLK, metal-bending is relatively mundane; by this stage, truly exceptional fire-bending masters should've been capable of shooting off lasers, generating near-perfect holograms and invisibility cloaking fields, and dealing out lethal doses of radiation poisoning. Maybe the whole anti-military thing nerfed the development of the whole field of firebending, in much the same manner as WW2 nerfed the development of Japanese military disciplines...

I feel that while fire may be the weakest on it's on, it sprouts for a lot of other abilities. Such as thunder, lightning, and lava bending, which I feel is useful somewhat. So I'd say it goes:

1. Water
2. Air
3. Fire
4. Earth

However, if bloodlusted, I'd say.

1. Air
2. Water
3. Fire
4. Earth

Why not ask the airbenders? :p

Lavabending is a sub bending of Earth

Each has their strengths and weaknesses.

You mean the peaceful nomads that a highly militarized country needed a massive amp from a plot-device comet to beat? :)

I think the dragon training only meant that anger didn't have to be the source of firebending, not that firebenders could manipulate any form of light or solar energy. While that would have been cool, it also might've been a bit much

They could've just saved a couple of techniques (say, a blinding flash-bang style attack, and/or decoy mirages) for Fire Lord Zuko when he fought in A:TLK. That way, they'd have done Zuko justice, instead of just turning his appearance into a huge anti-climax.

You could say that they have highest "firepower" around.

@sundeep: yeah, I was hoping for a bit more from Zuko, oh well, they only had so much time to work with

Yes, them. Ask them :p

Really? Was this brought up in ATLA or ATLAK?

They could just introduce electricity bending as a sub form and have firebenders mess with nerve and neuron impulses in their opponents' body. Or maybe cover themselves in a thin layer of fire or lightning which counteracts blood bending. They can give them powerups if they want to.

It was in Korra. Makes more sense, as lava's just molten earth

Out of curiosity, why would you say earth is the weakest?

That makes sense, I never watched Korra really so I wasn't sure.

Honestly, I feel earthbending is the least versatile bending ability. In air, you have the whole oxygen deal, which is a pretty solid ability in general. In water, there is bloodbending and healing, which are really useful and powerful in their own right. In fire, the raw potential is very great, especially for a skilled bender like Zuko or Azula, who both had pretty powerful attacks and abilities, whether it be as useless as Zuko's lightning redirect or as powerful as Azula's lightning/thunder creation, they are easily the most powerful benders as far as power. However, unlike the other elements, earth is...earth. It was always the plainest bending to me, while it has metal bending and lava bending, which are both pretty powerful, if there is an area with no rock/metal, well..an earth bender is pretty f*cked. I usually judge based upon how would they fare if they were put under there worst circumstances, for an airbender, a contained space. Waterbender, a hot burning room. Fire, underwater. Earth, a plastic room. What would they be able to do? Nothing, so yeah, that's why I usually rank them the weakest.

However, earth bending characters are always the cool ones, so props.

I was thinking... I don't know if I noticed that before but the bender strengthens the element he bends. I'll explain.

During Sozin coment some fodder firebenders were basically melting Earth Kingdom. But somehow Aang could vanquish Ozai's fire with some water from a waterfall or block his impressive fire bomb with his earth sphere. Bumi could block several sozin comet blast from fodder as well Pakku .

I don't know but I start to find that weird.

I noticed that too. Like how Tarrlok was able to make a thin water dome to block multiple fireballs from Korra

But my point is that by feats she was the best Waterbender in the series, so Azula losing to her is not necessarily indicative that Fire is weaker than Water. When Azula had trouble with Katara it's because she underestimated her, or was insane. She also nearly killed Katara with lightning, and likely would have succeeded had Zuko not redirected it. (Granted it was a cheap shot.)