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#151 Posted by Joygirl (20003 posts) - - Show Bio

The bottom line is that sin is unescapable. Under those archaic laws it is literally not possible to not be a sinner, it's specifically constructed that way. The only option is to get over it in whatever way works for you.

#152 Edited by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio
#153 Edited by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

Quotation taken from your linked article...

"There is a caveat, however. The review also reports that same-sex behaviors are not the same across species, and that researchers may be calling qualitatively different phenomena by the same name."

Not going to debate with you because it isn't specifically germane to the OP but I felt clarification was needed for full disclosure.

#154 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

Already debunked your link. XD Good job, Kuonphobos.

The theory, "because animals do it" makes it okay is stupidity.

#155 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24981 posts) - - Show Bio

lol @ using Jesus is savior.com as proof for anything scientific.

#156 Edited by Billy Batson (58031 posts) - - Show Bio
#157 Posted by Joygirl (20003 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't give a damn if I have an illness or not. You'd just better hope it isn't contagious.

#158 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24981 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

lol @ using Jesus is savior.com as proof for anything scientific.

Goddamn it....I just went to other articles on Jesus-Is-Savior.com and I think I lost half of my brain cells.....The amount of ignorance there is so high and absurd I think I will have to read a whole multiple "Grand Unified theroies" just to get said cells back. O_O

#159 Posted by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

lol @ using Jesus is savior.com as proof for anything scientific.

Goddamn it....I just went to other articles on Jesus-Is-Savior.com and I think I lost half of my brain cells.....The amount of ignorance there is so high and absurd I think I will have to read a whole multiple "Grand Unified theroies" just to get said cells back. O_O

Well I hope the cells you lost were in the hippocampus...

http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20000306/get-smart-brain-cells-do-regrow-study-confirms

=)

#160 Posted by HeckTate (1225 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: check out AnswersInGenesis.org, founded by Ken Ham, the guy who founded the "Creation Museum" which can't be said without adding a sarcastic/ironic emphasis on the word "museum."

#161 Edited by Xaos (440 posts) - - Show Bio

@oscuro said:

The Bible is interpreted so many different ways that you could probably find someone who will say yes and someone who will say no within the exact same words. Whether you are a transgendered person or not, just be the best person you can be as a friend, worker, family member etc etc. Be yourself

This.

#162 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

Already debunked your link. XD Good job, Kuonphobos.

The theory, "because animals do it" makes it okay is stupidity.

The argument is not "because animals do it" that it is okay, the argument is that it is a naturally occurring phenomena seen widely in nature which would lead one to believe it is not some evil human creation influenced by (non-existent) Satan but rather a subset of normal sexual practices.

And although Kuon pointed out that homosexual behavior in different species is not all similar, that is to be expected, heterosexual behavior isn't constant across all species either.

#163 Posted by TommyJones1945 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

OP if you still need to know, then yeah...it is a sin. Check out the books Exodus, Leveticus and Deutornomy if u don't believe for some reason.

CIN.

#164 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a certain trans-woman on here you need to have a talk with.

#165 Posted by Joygirl (20003 posts) - - Show Bio

@glitch_spawn: Which one? We only have like 2. 3 now with Tifa.

#166 Posted by RogueShadow (10782 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes it is.

#167 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5619 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: well talked a Woman who then talked a man into eating an apple.

#168 Posted by Strider92 (16511 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: well talked a Woman who then talked a man into eating an apple.

Either way its still the first confirmed use of LSD in history!

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#169 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@glitch_spawn: Which one? We only have like 2. 3 now with Tifa.

I was referring to Fuchsia and/or yourself JG.

#170 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3519 posts) - - Show Bio

Um...being transgender wasn't a possibility when the Bible was written, so they didn't really address it.

#171 Posted by Joygirl (20003 posts) - - Show Bio

@glitch_spawn: Fuchsia's off the site now, so it's just me and ShadowX presently. O_O

#172 Edited by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio

On a concrete note though, Transgender can't be a Sin because Sin itself is an Action. It's something you do that is counted as a Transgression against God. If you are born that way then that's who you are and God can't really count that against you since apparently he formed you in the womb that way.

POW, right in the kisser !

Online
#173 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio
#174 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

wait , transgenderdness is a sin becuase you're changing the body god gave you.

Tattoos.

Piercings.

Surgery.

#175 Posted by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder said:

wait , transgenderdness is a sin becuase you're changing the body god gave you.

Tattoos.

Piercings.

Surgery.

Eh, didn't God tell Abraham for he and his people to keep a Covenant with him by cutting part of their penis off ( Circumcision ). Genesis 17

I guess that doesn't count

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#176 Posted by Back_stabbath95 (170 posts) - - Show Bio

The bible is irrelevant to anything nowadays really, unless your into following religion or whatever for morals or jst belief in a higherpower. Jesus talked of forgiveness and not to judge yet the bible does exactly that. Supporting slavery, persecuting those whom are gay. For example. Plus the bible made the new testament for JC and the dude hung out with prostitutes lol not to mention he said that his wine is his blood so he must have been plastered half the time anyway, what does he know. Don't worry about that bro be yourself gOd will accept you and love you just the same

#177 Posted by ColonelRunAway (370 posts) - - Show Bio

@nighthunder said:

wait , transgenderdness is a sin becuase you're changing the body god gave you.

Tattoos.

Piercings.

Surgery.

Oh, and circumcisions. That's a bigee.

#178 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio
#179 Posted by consolemaster001 (5613 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123: You never fail to put a smile on my face comrade.

As for the OP. I'm just guessing but it may be. I'm no Bible expert, kuonphobos knows best on this site.

#180 Posted by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio

@colonelrunaway: @king_saturn Doesn't count, since apparently God was cool with that.

It flies directly against what the user says though... if changing the body God gave you is a Sin... then God should not command Circumcision at the same time as that is changing something on the Body that God gave you making his original statement Fallacious.

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#181 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123 said:

@colonelrunaway: @king_saturn Doesn't count, since apparently God was cool with that.

It flies directly against what the user says though... if changing the body God gave you is a Sin... then God should not command Circumcision at the same time as that is changing something on the Body that God gave you making his original statement Fallacious.

That line of reasoning would involve finding a religious contradiction.

Which has never happened.

Ever.

#182 Posted by NighThunder (4023 posts) - - Show Bio

Forgot the first statement i made , i was half-sleep.

#183 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@glitch_spawn: Fuchsia's off the site now, so it's just me and ShadowX presently. O_O

Well that's no good. Come to think of it, I haven't exchanged e-mails with her in a quite a while.

#184 Posted by youmessinwithme (1189 posts) - - Show Bio

well according to the bible even making a marking in your skin is a sin because you are changing yourself from the way god intended you to be, So even though their are no direct refrences to being transgender in the bible, it would kind of fall in line witht he changing yourself being a sin, But now a day people tend to cherry pick what they take to heart as being true in the bible, I've never heard a modern christian say anyone was going to hell for wearing different types of fabric (yes that's a sin according to the bible).

#185 Posted by pooty (11199 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

I already stated my opinion on the matter. If being gay/transgender/whatever you are, is a "sin" then God fails horribly as a creator.

Why would he even create gay/transgender (or people with the intent later on) people if he knew they would have "sins"? It makes no sense.

Exactly. I have researched this multiple times and I come up with the same result; Sexuality preference is something we're born with. We don't choose it's that way from birth. That is why I say God is a horrible creator if he/she/it exist.

1) Some Bible people still believe that gay/transgender etc is a choice. I just read some of their literature on it a couple days ago. In fact one poster in this thread has said that he is not convinced that people are born gay/bi etc

2) Other religious people believe that gay/bi etc emotions are natural. But only occurred AFTER Adam/Eve introduced sin. If Adam/Eve don't sin then no one would be born gay.

#186 Posted by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

On a concrete note though, Transgender can't be a Sin because Sin itself is an Action. It's something you do that is counted as a Transgression against God.

Biblically a sin is both an action and a nature (position or state of being). The act of one gender behaving as another is clearly called "abomination" or "detestable" in the Deuteronomy 22:5 passage cited above.

If you are born that way then that's who you are and God can't really count that against you since apparently he formed you in the womb that way.

This statement assumes that folks are "born that way" and that God formed them that way. The first could be either a biological or theological statement which doesn't necessarily require adding God into the equation. Either way the first assumption is not validated at this point with any hard evidence supported by the scientific method.

I am always nterested to consider the evidence although I don't exactly think that is what the OP of this thread is about.

POW, right in the kisser !

Such a tough guy. =P

#187 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24981 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: Was heading out for the night (in fact I did) then I saw this.. I might as well reply to this before I head out for good.

1. It does not matter what some believe. It's scientific fact people are born gay/transgender it has been researched and studied various times and it is shown people are in fact born that way. As for the poster good for him then, but I trust the opinion of people who are experts in there feild then people who are not.

2. Maybe, maybe not. It still does not change the fact that God set people up to fail from the get go if he really "sends people to Hell" for doing something they have no choice to do and are born the way they are.

Edit: I have been saying people are born gay/transgender this whole time without posting any links to my research. Truth be told I'm to lazy to look for the sources for my research, but I'm more then likely going to have to do it to get my point across. =/

#188 Edited by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: @dccomicsrule2011:

Very timely posts all things considered.

First when a Christian believer is experiencing a phenomena which from their perspective is transgenderism then from their point of view what others from their faith community believe about it is extremely relevant and important. It may not be for someone from outside that community but for them it is.

Again, it is not relevant to this specific thread, but I am very open to all this scientific "evidence" some people keep alluding to. If it is as factual and proven as is claimed then I will have to consider it. But what I have considered at this point has not convinced me.

#189 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8112 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

lol @ using Jesus is savior.com as proof for anything scientific.

Goddamn it....I just went to other articles on Jesus-Is-Savior.com and I think I lost half of my brain cells.....The amount of ignorance there is so high and absurd I think I will have to read a whole multiple "Grand Unified theroies" just to get said cells back. O_O

My favorites the Hail Mary Hail Satan Page :P

Look Jesus tried to teach that no matter who you are you will be forgiven and you will be loved.

I don't know if Tran is a sin or not but I know your loved

#190 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24981 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuonphobos: Yeah, I noticed I provided no proof for my claim (which is mostly out of lazyness) Hence that's why I edited my reply to @pooty: to add just that. Also I agree with you, this thread has nothing to do with said subject so I think it's best if I make a thread or blog explaining my opinion on the matter and showing evidence to back up my claim.

From there, we can debate this matter more throughly. Well anyway I'm out, have a good night.

^_^

#191 Edited by Joygirl (20003 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, I've never made a thread with this many comments in my entire time on the Vine.

The closest was Bruce Lee vs. André the Giant. Hey maybe I'll bump that one.

#192 Edited by TAneT62 (1060 posts) - - Show Bio

No, not everything in the bible is true ... If so, then every person whose had sex before marriage is pretty screwed. That's what? 99% of the worlds population? :)

Being gay, lesbian, transgender, etc. Is fine, nothing wrong with it, only to certain homophobes.

#193 Posted by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty:

One other thing I wanted to make clear.

I have never stated that I thought homosexuality, transgenderism or transvestism were choices. All that I did say was that the current scientific arguments that these phenomena are the result of genetics are not convincing to me even when I attempt to look at them from from as purely a materialistic and empirical perspective as I can. But again I am always open to learning more.

Sure you didn't exactly say that I did believe these phenomena were based upon choice but by lumping me into that first statement you made it seems that way.

The truth be told I am not sure what I believe about this phenomena. I desire very much to be inclusive. I do believe that the salvation offered through Christ is available to all people and that all people are guilty of moral transgressions. But I am also aware that in many cases beliefs held "a priori" can taint the interpretation of evidence. And yes I am aware that this applies to both camps involved. Of the two options you presented I think I currently fall closest to the second. Perhaps these phenomena are psychological issues or biological anomalies which have emerged within a fallen creation.

#194 Posted by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

No problem. I am hesitant to join many of these debates because my desire to be respectful towards people's deeply held life issues always is my overriding guideline. Making arguments (or criticizing arguments) which deal with this type of issue always makes me feel a little crappy. But I would be very willing to learn through what evidence you have arrived at your conclusions should you be willing to post it. However I may be hesitant to debate for the reasons given above which made dissuade you from making the effort.

Either way. Take it easy.

=)

#195 Posted by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

On a concrete note though, Transgender can't be a Sin because Sin itself is an Action. It's something you do that is counted as a Transgression against God.

Biblically a sin is both an action and a nature (position or state of being). The act of one gender behaving as another is clearly called "abomination" or "detestable" in the Deuteronomy 22:5 passage cited above.

If you are born that way then that's who you are and God can't really count that against you since apparently he formed you in the womb that way.

This statement assumes that folks are "born that way" and that God formed them that way. The first could be either a biological or theological statement which doesn't necessarily require adding God into the equation. Either way the first assumption is not validated at this point with any hard evidence supported by the scientific method.

I am always nterested to consider the evidence although I don't exactly think that is what the OP of this thread is about.

POW, right in the kisser !

Such a tough guy. =P

1. I am talking about someone who has both sexual organs and can't be identified as of one gender acting as the other gender. If God forms you that way then he can not hold that against you and call himself a Righteous Judge.

2. Is there anyone who God has not formed in the womb according to the Bible ? Bible talks clearly that it's God who forms the human in the womb... therefore he is responsible for that person being that way. Isaiah 44:24, don't sound familiar ?

3. One again, the Deist takes The Christian with a Master's Degree in Religion to school. Or are you gonna argue that your Holy Book doesn't really mean what it says there ?

Online
#196 Posted by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuonphobos said:
@king_saturn said:

On a concrete note though, Transgender can't be a Sin because Sin itself is an Action. It's something you do that is counted as a Transgression against God.

Biblically a sin is both an action and a nature (position or state of being). The act of one gender behaving as another is clearly called "abomination" or "detestable" in the Deuteronomy 22:5 passage cited above.

If you are born that way then that's who you are and God can't really count that against you since apparently he formed you in the womb that way.

This statement assumes that folks are "born that way" and that God formed them that way. The first could be either a biological or theological statement which doesn't necessarily require adding God into the equation. Either way the first assumption is not validated at this point with any hard evidence supported by the scientific method.

I am always nterested to consider the evidence although I don't exactly think that is what the OP of this thread is about.

POW, right in the kisser !

Such a tough guy. =P

1. I am talking about someone who has both sexual organs and can't be identified as of one gender acting as the other gender. If God forms you that way then he can not hold that against you and call himself a Righteous Judge.

Hermaphroditism (both genders) is not the same thing as transgenderism.

2. Is there anyone who God has not formed in the womb according to the Bible ? Bible talks clearly that it's God who forms the human in the womb... therefore he is responsible for that person being that way. Isaiah 44:24, don't sound familiar ?

Since hermaphroditism is not the same as transgenderism it remains that your point applies to the former but not necessarily to the latter.

3. One again, the Deist takes The Christian with a Master's Degree in Religion to school. Or are you gonna argue that your Holy Book doesn't really mean what it says there ?

The Deist seems to have missed the point. I wasn't aware that you were specifically addressing hermaphroditism and not transgenderism which is what I was addressing. We seem to be saying to different things.

#197 Posted by King Saturn (224219 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@kuonphobos said:
@king_saturn said:

On a concrete note though, Transgender can't be a Sin because Sin itself is an Action. It's something you do that is counted as a Transgression against God.

Biblically a sin is both an action and a nature (position or state of being). The act of one gender behaving as another is clearly called "abomination" or "detestable" in the Deuteronomy 22:5 passage cited above.

If you are born that way then that's who you are and God can't really count that against you since apparently he formed you in the womb that way.

This statement assumes that folks are "born that way" and that God formed them that way. The first could be either a biological or theological statement which doesn't necessarily require adding God into the equation. Either way the first assumption is not validated at this point with any hard evidence supported by the scientific method.

I am always nterested to consider the evidence although I don't exactly think that is what the OP of this thread is about.

POW, right in the kisser !

Such a tough guy. =P

1. I am talking about someone who has both sexual organs and can't be identified as of one gender acting as the other gender. If God forms you that way then he can not hold that against you and call himself a Righteous Judge.

Hermaphroditism (both genders) is not the same thing as transgenderism.

2. Is there anyone who God has not formed in the womb according to the Bible ? Bible talks clearly that it's God who forms the human in the womb... therefore he is responsible for that person being that way. Isaiah 44:24, don't sound familiar ?

Since hermaphroditism is not the same as transgenderism it remains that your point applies to the former but not necessarily to the latter.

3. One again, the Deist takes The Christian with a Master's Degree in Religion to school. Or are you gonna argue that your Holy Book doesn't really mean what it says there ?

The Deist seems to have missed the point. I wasn't aware that you were specifically addressing hermaphroditism and not transgenderism which is what I was addressing. We seem to be saying to different things.

Got Damn It, You Got Me !

:P

Online
#198 Posted by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn:

U B funny n stuff! =P

And I spelled two wrong.