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#51 Edited by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish people would focus more on Jesus' forgiveness than calling out people for specks in their eyes.

EDIT: you know its ambiguous when my Quest Bible doesn't have a section on transgenderism. :-(

#52 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart

The Bible is 2000 years old, 90% of what's written there doesn't apply anymore. It has nothing on being transgender.

If you want a list of what are considered very bad sins, among others: having a tattoo, growing two kinds of crops in the same field, having mixed textiles on your body, not giving you host the permission to sleep with your dughter regardless of what she thinks about that.

There's a part where god sends two bears to eat a group of children who playfully made fun of a holy man.

So really, you shouldn't concern you about what's in the Bible. If Jesus existed, he was way more forgiving and far more progressionis than that. He himself was a revolutionary and against all political and religious customs of his time.

The word of god can't be in a book who was written by many different illiterate tribes more than 2000 years ago. Everybody should feel it withim himself. Do you feel you are a sinner and disrespecting god by being transgender?

#53 Posted by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, no, but I do love God with all my heart and want to do what's right. This is a very difficult issue as my one pastor told me.

#54 Posted by laflux (16218 posts) - - Show Bio
#55 Edited by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@innervenom123 said:

The bible says a lot of things.

Simpsons quote

Kind of weak to be a simpsons quote :)

The laws of god are not in one place and interpreted correctly by one group of religious people. If it was so evident, we'd have one set of rules. Most of the laws of every religion was evidently invented many years ago for custom or political convenience.

Don't you think god wants you to be happy? If you are and you are not hurting anyone, you should be ok.

#56 Posted by JediXMan (30709 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, no, but I do love God with all my heart and want to do what's right. This is a very difficult issue as my one pastor told me.

Good. Not going to be easy, but it is good to hear.

This is the best thing I can post:

Matthew 22:

34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Moderator
#57 Posted by Teerack (6625 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah. An easy way to remember what the bible considers a sin is to think of it as the book of intolerance.

#58 Edited by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY PLEASE.

#59 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

SERIOUS ANSWERS ONLY PLEASE.

Serious answer. You cannot find any solace in the bible with regards to your problem. Religion, forgive the word, is intolerant, if they change doctrines time after time, they will loss credibility.

#60 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (10761 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman said:

Just Google it. Read the bible yourself, Or talk to a pastor. This website is not the authority on the subject. Even though you say no opinions this thread will probably start flaming.

This, but maybe not anymore, not according to this new Pope, He's got more important stuff to do. Im more interested in knowing if its a sin to get tatoo's. I wanna get some sweet stitches tattoos all around y body, but not to many, kinda like this.

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#61 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@hero92: it is listed in the book as a sin, but it's also a sin to NOT beat your children and NOT giving your daughter out for prostitution if you host requires you to. So... if you decide to follow every single rule, you are in for a world of misery.

I am serious. The book is written by men for the men of their time, and later doctored for political reasons. This is historical fact, so please, only answer intelligently. I am not saying that it's not a precious document about human's intellectual development: I'm just saying that it is a little silly to take is as a code of moral conduct. It's like taking the Illiad or the Divine Commedy as a moral code.

@tifalockhart: I was being serious. I didn't make jokes. THose things are actually written on the bible.

#62 Edited by Saint_Wildcard (10761 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@hero92: oh well, I'm actually an atheist, but I'm married to a girl who believes. But even she says that any intelligent christian couldn't possibly believe the bible is the word of god... it is actually apparent once you really really read it.

Also, lol at the link :D

#64 Posted by pooty (11244 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish people would focus more on Jesus' forgiveness than calling out people for specks in their eyes.

EDIT: you know its ambiguous when my Quest Bible doesn't have a section on transgenderism. :-(

I think people should know that Jesus sins does NOT cover everything. We can't take God's kindness for an excuse to practice sin

1 Corinthians 6:9 says: Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality

Romans 1: 24-27 says: Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error

#65 Posted by Saint_Wildcard (10761 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg: Yeah I kinda figure you were from your posts, the "if you'd like I could talk to you about Jesus in this thread" is all a part of the joke included with the link. :b

And yeah I know the bible says all sorts of crazy things, but I have my reasons for believing. At most I'd ever be is agnostic, but for now I'll stick to Catholicism.

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#66 Edited by kuonphobos (4898 posts) - - Show Bio
@tifalockhart said:

I'm not looking for your personal opinion unless it's an interpretation of Scripture.

Please help.

@tifalockhart said:

The last thing I want is a war. But my mother is crying because I wore a dress to HeroClix yesterday and I've heard that transgenderism isn't referenced in the Bible from some people but from others they say it is and I've read the passages in question and I honestly don't know and neither does my one pastor.

I need help.

Hi. The urgency within the tone of your post is what has stirred me to respond. So I wanted to share a few thoughts.

Just so you know I have a Master's Degree in theological studies (specifically the anthropological side) from an evangelical Protestant background. I only say this so you have some understanding of who I am and where I am coming from.

First, let me state that the current, modern understanding of transgenderism is nowhere addressed specifically in the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) The Deuteronomy 22:5 passage given above may be loosely related but not specifically related to the phenomena as we understand it today. The biblical record is pre-Enlightenment and pre-scientific revolution. So let us consider what this implies for just a moment.

Let's assume that transgenderism has existed for as long as there have been human beings. But I am only speaking of the phenomena itself not any underlying assumptions about it's root sources or causation. Various cultures from the ancient world to today have witnessed the phenomena and made various assumptions which were filtered through the "lens" of their predominant cultural and metaphysical presuppositions. Some of these assumptions were incorrect (for example categorically assigning all transgendered persons as homosexual) but human thought patterns require categories.

So since you are focused upon the biblical understanding we must therefore focus upon both the ancient Jewish and the early Christian cultural and historical milieus. This is the setting into which God has made His revelation so these are the underlying cultural assumptions which must be used in the attempt to understand God's own thoughts upon the subject.

So based upon the Deuteronomy 22: 5 passage we can suppose that "cross-dressers" (transvestism) were extant and there was a biblical prohibition upon such activity. But we cannot presume why such a prohibition existed. We can speculate, based upon the whole of scripture, that such prohibitions were there to maintain and reinforce gender roles in order to insure stability within the society. However it is telling that within that passage (and other gender related passages such as Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13) the very powerful concept of "detestable" (NIV) or "abomination" is used. This would indicate the concept of "sin" which you bring up in the opening page (OP).

We also cannot presume that within the minds of an ancient people there was any differentiation between the concepts of homosexuality, transvestism or transgenderism. These more specific categories have emerged from within a post-science setting.

It is also probable that in ancient communities (Jewish and Early Christian) persons from within those groups functionally lived within the same communities geographically which would have only added to their being "lumped together". In fact I find it doubtful that they themselves even maintained any formal categorical differences.

One other problem from this setting it the fact that in many surrounding communities the practice of transvestism was closely associated with competing religions. Some religious cultic forms (rituals traditions etc) included temple prostitution which also had "cross-dressing" elements. This was connected to some mystical understandings of hermaphroditism (which eventually filtered into Medieval alchemy). This need to maintain boundaries between varying and competing "faiths" may have played a role in the motives for prohibition. It is also in the background of such New Testament passages as Romans 1:18-32 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10.

I just wanted to touch on a few things for you to consider. I hope that you can see that I have not personally made any claims one way or the other about my own position regarding this issue. There is much more to discuss certainly about how woefully underprepared modern ministers are for the emergence of this phenomena into the public debate or even why culturally it seems to have suddenly been catapulted there. No discussion on the source of the phenomena or how ministers should begin to address it. I am certainly open to more discussion should you desire it.

Just remember what another poster alluded to earlier:

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (NIV)

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (NIV)

#67 Edited by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say it is.

I now need to know why people are born hermaphrodites?

Also, how a man was born with a female part. His first name is Buck.

#68 Posted by Bruxae (13984 posts) - - Show Bio

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

#69 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

#70 Edited by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart: Do you really care?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the whole idea of being a transgendered person, is to be who you are and stand above the scrutiny. To ask this question, seems fairly counterproductive to you as a person; both mentally and morally.

If your mom has a problem with it, it seems like that is her problem. If her feelings on the matter affect you so much that you need to question yourself, and who you are. Maybe you arent truly a transgendered person.

#71 Posted by Bruxae (13984 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

Nah, If I have a child can I run its entire life? Not really.

#72 Edited by Deadite (24213 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you want it to feel like a sin?

#73 Edited by TifaLockhart (14051 posts) - - Show Bio

I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO MY MOM'S CRYING

#74 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

Nah, If I have a child can I run its entire life? Not really.

We are God's creation.

#75 Edited by Dernman (15160 posts) - - Show Bio

@tifalockhart said:

I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO MY MOM'S CRYING

Hug her and tell her you love her.

#76 Posted by Z3RO180 (6592 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think its a sin. I think a man wanting to be a woman and a woman wanting to be a man is werid mainly because I don't know WHY they would want to do, but I'm not agenst it if hey want to do it then I hope it works out for them.

#77 Posted by Bruxae (13984 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

Nah, If I have a child can I run its entire life? Not really.

We are God's creation.

Way to change the subject, slick.

#78 Posted by Pyrogram (39547 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

Nah, If I have a child can I run its entire life? Not really.

We are God's creation.

What a change in subject. LMFAO.

#79 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20320 posts) - - Show Bio

I already stated my opinion on the matter. If being gay/transgender/whatever you are, is a "sin" then God fails horribly as a creator.

Why would he even create gay/transgender (or people with the intent later on) people if he knew they would have "sins"? It makes no sense.

#80 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

Nah, If I have a child can I run its entire life? Not really.

But God didn't have us as childs. He created the laws of physics, then chemistry. So he made it so some people wouldn't feel right in their own bodies.

#81 Posted by Deadite (24213 posts) - - Show Bio
@bruxae said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@bruxae said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

@bruxae said:

Why care, if god condemns people for being themselfs he isnt worthy of worship.

If God created everything then He can set the rules.

Nah, If I have a child can I run its entire life? Not really.

We are God's creation.

Way to change the subject, slick.

I see a winner.

#82 Posted by explodingpineapple (837 posts) - - Show Bio

If you are born a male your a male, if you are born a female your a female.

#83 Posted by mikex20 (2769 posts) - - Show Bio

If you wear modern clothing, you're committing a sin according to the bible. The bible says, "You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together." Leviticus 19:19

#84 Posted by Wolverine08 (42845 posts) - - Show Bio

This is just starting to seem like trolling to me. Hanging that flame bait in everyone's face.

#85 Posted by mikex20 (2769 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's not forget the Bible was written along time ago, like even before John McCain was born. So it's full of outdated rules.

#86 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

If you are born a male your a male, if you are born a female your a female.

#87 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (25198 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

I already stated my opinion on the matter. If being gay/transgender/whatever you are, is a "sin" then God fails horribly as a creator.

Why would he even create gay/transgender (or people with the intent later on) people if he knew they would have "sins"? It makes no sense.

Exactly. I have researched this multiple times and I come up with the same result; Sexuality preference is something we're born with. We don't choose it's that way from birth. That is why I say God is a horrible creator if he/she/it exist.

#88 Posted by Wolverine08 (42845 posts) - - Show Bio

Trolololol.

#89 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (25198 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by Wolverine08 (42845 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

Trolololol.

xD What?

It's chant you do after you see someone successfully troll people. Trolololololololol!

#92 Posted by Squares (6909 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt it's mentioned, and if it is there's a chance it's lumped in somehow with the bibles' opinions on other religions.

#93 Posted by youmessinwithme (1189 posts) - - Show Bio

wearing two different fabrics is a sin, and so is putting any marking in your sin (tattoos for example) if you're actually going by the bible so yeah probably..

#94 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe said:

@explodingpineapple said:

If you are born a male your a male, if you are born a female your a female.

Here lies the problem in this line of reasoning; It's scientific fact that gay/transgender people are born the way they are and it's not something they chose.

But go ahead with your bad self, if you honestly think you know more about people who scientifically researched this. *eye roll*

Really? XD

They used to say it was a mental disorder. Which it is. They were blackmailed into changing it from a mental disorder.

Look into that. ;)

#95 Posted by Wolverine08 (42845 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup, this is turning into a flame war. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

#96 Posted by Hazlenaut (1960 posts) - - Show Bio

Is transgender a sin? If we are to believe the bible does take the word of God. They are taking word from being that he/she/it/xe chooses to be. The only thing this that limit is preference and this is a being that lived a long life so it is likely very opening if it for good. Whether good is chaotic or orderly good is still preferred.

#97 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (25198 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe:

Way to create a strawman argument. If that's the best you got, this" discussion" is a waist of time.

#98 Posted by consolemaster001 (5670 posts) - - Show Bio
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#99 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2615 posts) - - Show Bio
#100 Posted by consolemaster001 (5670 posts) - - Show Bio
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